11 year old son with HORRIBLE handwriting....help me!!

[ProudGrandma]

Let me start by saying it's not that he can't do it...he just chooses not to.  When he really takes his time, he can do a good job.  I know I can make him redo his work when I can't read it....but that would be like torture for all of us....is there another option...or do I need to be the "mean mom" and just make him do it better?  If you  have done something else with success, please share with me.

 

 

[Chris in VA]

Well, can he type? Maybe it's time to transition him. Around that age, our school (public) started asking for typed reports/papers/projects.

 

If you do narrations or paragraph/report writing, maybe let him type those, but handwrite other things--so a mix of techniques.

 

Do you know why he is a poor handwriter? Is it muscular? Has he reached automaticity in handwriting? 

[ProudGrandma]

my first instict is to say laziness...and the fact that everything he does, he does fast...including his school work....he has in the past complained that his hand hurts when he writes too much, but then just the other day he did 7 pages of his handwriting book in one sitting (which is A LOT of writing)....when I asked him why he did that, he said he just wanted to have handwriting done for a long time, so he thought if he worked that far ahead, he wouldn't have to do any for a while.  (oh by the way, when he does his handwriting assignments, I can actually read what he writes...but when he writes for other subjects, I am lucky if I can read much of it without effort).

 

 

[jen3kids]

IMO, make him it write neatly, a bit at a time.  

 

My oldest is 16 and his handwriting is totally illegible when he cannot be 'bothered' to write neatly.   He was homeschooled for grades 3-4 and although he didn't do much writing during those 2 years, what he did I made him do neatly.  However, upon re-entering school in grade 5, he soon realized his teachers didn't care and so he got sloppy again and it has only gotten worse.  In fact, in 6th-7th grade when I mentioned it to his teachers, they laughed it off and said they were used to 'middle school writing' and not to worry.  I only hope that his writing on tests is better than his note-taking.  He asked me to quiz him while studying for a test and it was nearly impossible to read any of his notes.

 

Conversely, my youngest is 12 and physically had a hard time writing neatly, but he worked on it.  His writing isn't stellar, and he still has to work to make it legible. Thankfully, his middle school teachers insist he write neatly, so he takes his time and is neat.   I also used painting and drawing to help with his fine motor control. That seemed to make a big difference for him.

[PeterPan]

Well another story for you, different experience.  I sweated it for all these years, and then when she was 13 she finally decided SHE wanted it.  We sat down and over the course of a couple days developed a new font she could write neatly.  Overnight her writing became neater, and actually it is starting to carry over into when she writes faster.  In her case they said her motor control for her writing is not automatic (kissing cousin to dysgraphia but not diagnosed as such?), and that's why it got messier when she would write faster.  It's also related to processing speed and working memory, because they can't slow it down and control it AND remember what they're thinking AND remember the spelling AND remember the motor control, so they go really fast to try not to lose it all.  Try doing something slow like Callirobics or just having him write to a metronome or music.  See if he wigs out.

 

When he says his hand hurts, it probably does.  There's actually stuff you can do for that.  We did OT for a while, and they were able to pinpoint why and give us things to do about it.  In her case it had to do with low muscle tone and how her weight was shifting.  So literally a reposition and some work on finger exercises, and her comfort improved dramatically.  But yes, like the others are saying, she types almost everything.  She wrote a list (menu) tonight for Thanksgiving dinner, and it's legible in her new elf script.  That was age 13 1/2 when that finally came in.  I sat her down and had the "please, this is the LAST YEAR we're ever gonna work on handwriting, please give me something respectable" talk, and it was like it finally clicked.  If he's got some impulsivity and go-mode like that, time can help.  I've had others tell me back channel they had the same thing, that around say 14 the handwriting improved on its own.  Not saying I wouldn't work on it, but the part that was developmental needed time to develop.

[Ellie]

Be the mean mom. If he's capable of doing it but chooses not to, then be the mean mom. I wouldn't give him the easy-out of typing everything.

[Mom22ns]

Be the mean mom. If he's capable of doing it but chooses not to, then be the mean mom. I wouldn't give him the easy-out of typing everything.

 

In my mind, this depends on how long it takes when he tries to make it neat. 

 

Ds had terrible handwriting. He could make it look good, but we are talking 30 minutes for a simple sentence. We went with anything over 1 sentence got typed. Handwriting only had to be neat on Language Arts assignments. Other subjects, I just had to be able to read.

 

Fast forward. He is 16. His handwriting isn't pretty, but it is always legible. He can write at a reasonable pace, but he still types almost everything. Recently he took a SAT essay writing seminar and was able to write fast enough and legibly enough to be ready for the SAT.

 

We did do OT with this kiddo when he was younger. I don't think making writing into torture accomplishes anything but a hatred of writing. If you think it is just laziness, I see nothing wrong with pushing a bit, but pick the battle carefully and make sure that he doesn't lose just so you can win.

[PeterPan]

Be the mean mom. If he's capable of doing it but chooses not to, then be the mean mom. I wouldn't give him the easy-out of typing everything.

Oh come on, you don't think we can differentiate willful laziness vs. OT problems that mom just hasn't clued into yet?  I don't think the fact that the problem is undiagnosed changes the harm that occurs from ramrodding over it.  If the kid is just lazy, truly lazy, sure give him the Nun with Her Fingers Blown Off routine.  But if the kid is saying his hand hurts (and actually does) and the kid is saying he's trying (and he actually is) and the kid is known to have some other diagnosed issues (I think so in this case? or at least others in the family?) then MAYBE, just maybe, it's a Mom issue, not a kid issue.  

 

That's how I knew it was time for evals, when my kid was finally old enough and mature enough that I KNEW she was trying and it wasn't working.  That happens.  And my being tough all those years and giving her the Nun with Her Fingers Blown Off writes neatly so you can too routine didn't help.  OT and a proper diagnosis did.  And she types.

 

Sorry, nothing personal.  I'm just on a rant.  ;)

[BlsdMama]

Does his hand hurt from the Pencil Grip of Death?  Meaning, in order to maintain control to get it to look nice, must he grip it incredibly tight?

 

Hey, as an aside, how were his blending skills when he was learning to read? ;) 

[BlsdMama]

Oh come on, you don't think we can differentiate willful laziness vs. OT problems that mom just hasn't clued into yet?  I don't think the fact that the problem is undiagnosed changes the harm that occurs from ramrodding over it.  If the kid is just lazy, truly lazy, sure give him the Nun with Her Fingers Blown Off routine.  But if the kid is saying his hand hurts (and actually does) and the kid is saying he's trying (and he actually is) and the kid is known to have some other diagnosed issues (I think so in this case? or at least others in the family?) then MAYBE, just maybe, it's a Mom issue, not a kid issue.  

 

That's how I knew it was time for evals, when my kid was finally old enough and mature enough that I KNEW she was trying and it wasn't working.  That happens.  And my being tough all those years and giving her the Nun with Her Fingers Blown Off writes neatly so you can too routine didn't help.  OT and a proper diagnosis did.  And she types.

 

Sorry, nothing personal.  I'm just on a rant.   ;)

 

I. Love. You.

 

Just sayin'.

[PeterPan]

Does his hand hurt from the Pencil Grip of Death?  Meaning, in order to maintain control to get it to look nice, must he grip it incredibly tight?

 

Hey, as an aside, how were his blending skills when he was learning to read? ;)

You are SO onto something here.  There are multiple reasons the hand can hurt while writing.  You can have retained primitive reflexes causing an odd grip.  You can have low tone.  You can have VISION problems and the kid is compensating and tightening up.  There are so many reasons, and none of them have to do with the volition of the child.  The child is a CHILD.  He has no ability to no what is normal in his symptomatology and what is not, what to complain about and what to suck up about.  He has no basis for comparison.  That's why it's so important, at some point, to conclude it's time for evals.  I think screening evals are wise.  After getting burnt with my dd (and letting her vision errantly go untreated till 11/12), you can bet my butt has my ds into the eye doc (and a developmental optometrist, not a regular one!) every year, every single year.  And we're looking into OT.  But you know something as simple as an eye exam can catch things.  $65, just the normal yearly exam, but with a good dev. optom. so they screen for things.  

[BlsdMama]

The reason I ask is because I didn't believe in dyslexia. After all, I had a son who had a hard time learning to read and we just APPLIED ourselves. That's what we do, right? Just work harder. (Tongue in cheek.)

 

DS is 14. He reads like a champ now. His handwriting? Still abysmal, but he can do a great job when he "tries," similarly to how he could tie his shoes if he'd just try hard enough.

 

 

Kids who have something else going on can usually do something for spurts when they give it super human effort. Yes, some kids are lazy. But most? Most aren't. And the mommy guilt from making them do the equivalent of climbing Mt. Everest every day will be incredible when you finally figure out there is something else going on here.

 

In my scenario I had this AWESOME kid who liked to give effort, who liked to do his best, but frankly? Doing what he did was incredibly hard.

 

And, FYI, I didn't figure out there was something else going on until he was 13, and only then because of another child in our family. In our scenario it was dyslexia. Dyslexia is mind boggling common, hereditary, can be very stealthy, and is scientifically trackable in brain scans. They now believe it affects 33%+ of the overall population. If a parent has dyslexia, 50% of the children will have it. Speech delay or speech issues is the first clue. Tying shoes is another great give away. Then comes reading....

 

 

If any of this sounds familiar then you don't have a handwriting issue going on, you have a handwriting SYMPTOM. ;)

[PeterPan]

Kelly, did you have brain scans for the dyslexia?  I've heard of that (like a mention a long time ago) but haven't actually seen a practice doing it.  What kind of scan?  

[clemota]

Tagging along, as I have an 11 year old dd currently going through testing for dysgraphia/ stealth dyslexia.   Still trying to understand what it means for her.

[wapiti]

When he really takes his time, he can do a good job.

 

FWIW, this absolutely does not rule out dysgraphia, processing speed issues, etc.  The time and effort it takes him to do a good job may be much greater than the time and effort it may take others to do a good job, so much that it creates a bottleneck for written output.

 

I would get him typing proficiently ASAP.

[Stars]

If your child does not have a physical impairment to handwriting, you might try teaching him some basic calligraphy.  Get him some calligraphy markers instead of pens and just have him learn the alphabet in italic, to start.  You could stealthily incorporate it as art lessons (Christmas ornaments, poems, etc.).  I started learning calligraphy at about that age, and it really affected my regular cursive handwriting for the better.  Holding a calligraphy marker correctly really makes one take control of one's fingers and wrists, and making the letters correctly requires deeper concentration.  Enough practice will definitely carry over into everyday writing.  Plus, he will have learned a useful new skill.

[birchbark]

Did his handwriting suddenly worsen, or has it always been poor?

[BlsdMama]

Kelly, did you have brain scans for the dyslexia? I've heard of that (like a mention a long time ago) but haven't actually seen a practice doing it. What kind of scan?

No. What I meant was that one CAN see it on a scan. ;) I truly believed dyslexia was one of " those" disorders where every mom with a kid with messy handwriting and a challenge reading thought they had one. But, scientifically speaking, it can be seen with imaging, so it isn't simply a child with a challenge. I was blessed to hear someone here speak about a year ago. I went to essentially humour a friend who suspected one of our children had dyslexia. :) I laughed and assured her that every homeschooling mom with more than two or three kids thought their hardest to teach child had dyslexia. The joke was on me. This year DH and I drive up to Washington to hear Susan Barton give a four hour presentation.

 

We are just now going through the process of formal diagnosis. DS #1 has his diagnosis meeting in mid November and DS #2's first intake appointment was today. We've decided to pursue formal diagnosis because DS is actually academic with high goals and we realize as a homeschooled child, his mommy grades need that verification from standardized testing life the SAT. Well, guess what dyslexics don't do well?

 

On topic, mama, watch his writing. Does he have an odd grip? Pencil? Or even eating utensils? It's a sign of them trying to have more control. Watch how he makes his letters. I'd you going he starts in various places to make the same letter that's a sign of a sequencing issue. How does he do tying his shoes? Right vs. left? Directions? How was his early reading? Memory? All of this is relevant.

 

If, at the end if it all, laziness and sloppiness is just a personality characteristic, then sometimes demanding they do readable work has its place. However, realize that often a child who can doesn't, not because he's lazy, but because to put forth that amount of effort all the time is simply overwhelming.

[Hunter]

My hands hurts more when I print than when I use cursive. It hurts less when I print "messy". Keeping the "balls" perfectly round and the "sticks" straight takes a tighter grip and choppy strokes. I'm wondering if some people adopt all caps printing, because it is less stressful on the hand. I really think it's the balls that are the most stressful.

 

The How to Tutor slanted cursive hand, made up of undercurves and overcurves, is a more relaxed grip than the vertical rounder Spalding cursive.

 

I grip the pencil differently when I use the new thicker 1.3 2B leaded Papermate mechanical pencils than the thinner and harder leaded ones that I had been using. Some pens use even a looser grip. But pens with felt tips slip over the paper so easily, I cannot control them, so tighten my grip back up.

[Tiramisu]

FWIW, this absolutely does not rule out dysgraphia, processing speed issues, etc.  The time and effort it takes him to do a good job may be much greater than the time and effort it may take others to do a good job, so much that it creates a bottleneck for written output.

 

I would get him typing proficiently ASAP.

 

I agree with wapiti in all of this. If he can do it when he takes his time, it means he has to work extra hard to get it right. That is most likely caused a processing issue of some kind. I bet if he did a test of visual-motor integration, he would come up in the low percentiles. 

 

About the hand hurting, that's happening precisely because clear messages aren't being transmitted between the brain and the hand, so the perception is off about how hard to grip and usually kids like this wind up gripping too hard and the muscles in their hand start to cramp rather quickly.

 

It's helpful to remember that the effort and frustration of the physical act of writing is going to take away from the energy, physical and psychological, that he has for other tasks. So I agree with the typing recommendation. My dd types most written work, and I scribe for math a lot of the time. She still uses workbooks for grammar and vocab. And yes, she works on handwriting, but moderately. A tremendous weight was lifted when she transitioned to typing, and honestly--not to cop out-- being proficient with a keyboard is probably a more valuable asset than beautiful handwriting.

 

An OT might have you work on hand, upper body, and core strength, proper positioning, and grip, and that could help. At home, you can use something like play-do or theraputty for more of a workout.  There's also the crazy 8 exercises that are supposed to help with automaticity. You can find a youtube video to see how it's done. We also do piano and crafts that require fine motor skills.

 

I agree that if he's motivated, it could help a lot. But there has to be some spark, like the cool calligraphy or style that OhE and Stars mentioned. I think my dd's overcame weaknesses through activities they really loved.

[Tiramisu]

On topic, mama, watch his writing. Does he have an odd grip? Pencil? Or even eating utensils? It's a sign of them trying to have more control. Watch how he makes his letters. I'd you going he starts in various places to make the same letter that's a sign of a sequencing issue. How does he do tying his shoes? Right vs. left? Directions? How was his early reading? Memory? All of this is relevant.

 

If, at the end if it all, laziness and sloppiness is just a personality characteristic, then sometimes demanding they do readable work has its place. However, realize that often a child who can doesn't, not because he's lazy, but because to put forth that amount of effort all the time is simply overwhelming.

 

You are amazing BlsdMama! Let me try to answer these.

 

Does she have an odd grip? Yes

 

Pencil? A certain kind helps. "Comfort grip" mechanical type.

 

Or even eating utensils? Problems with chop sticks. We use them quite a bit.

 

starts in various places to make the same letter that's a sign of a sequencing issue.  She starts in weird places. All the coaching in the world didn't seem to help. There was also awkward spacing.

 

How does he do tying his shoes? Learned late, after younger dc.

 

Right vs. left? Directions?  ?? Now I want to test this.

 

How was his early reading? ok

 

Memory?  Poor memory for math facts.

[Paige]

How is he in cursive? DS got tired of re-doing things so often and switched to cursive. His cursive is much better than print. He resisted the switch for a while because print is faster, but for some reason he finally saw the value in doing it once slowly rather than doing it repeatedly and taking more time in the end.

 

He also had the pencil death grip. I have tried to get him to use the pencil grips to change his grip but he hates them. Switching to pens helps a little and his cursive grip is looser. I still blame his handwriting issues on the kindergarten teacher who forced him to use his right hand when he was leaning towards being a lefty. It just doesn't come naturally or easily to him.

[BlsdMama]

Lol, well there is value in being uncomfortable... You learn a lot. Of the things we are learning over at our house, lol.

 

 

So, if I were you, I'd head over to Susan Barton's site and see if any of the comments/questions ring a bell for you. ;)