Article: Why Tough Teachers Get Good Results

[Arcadia]

Interesting long article in WSJ on 27 Sep 2013.  Link 

 

" Studies have now shown, among other things, the benefits of moderate childhood stress; how praise kills kids' self-esteem; and why grit is a better predictor of success than SAT scores.

.....

1. A little pain is good for you.

2. Drill, baby, drill.

3. Failure is an option.

4. Strict is better than nice.

5. Creativity can be learned.

6. Grit trumps talent.

7. Praise makes you weak…

8.…while stress makes you strong."

[nansk]

I agree with most of the points in the list, except "Creativity can be learned."

 

"Grit trumps talent."  :thumbup: I have seen this so very often in college and at work!

 

Will read the article and respond at length. Thanks for sharing.

[creekland]

I agree too - except creativity can only be learned to a point.  It will never replace pure talent - though grit most definitely trumps talent.  Get talent and grit together and you're set up for success.

 

Also, strict and nice do not have to be opposites.  One can certainly be strict - with expected standards - and still be nice.

[littlebug42]

Also, strict and nice do not have to be opposites.  One can certainly be strict - with expected standards - and still be nice.

Very true. The best teacher I ever had was my Senior year AP English teacher in high school. I worked harder in that class than any other in my life, including college. He expected a lot from his students and we gave it to him willingly because honestly, I also don't think I have ever met a nicer man. I am modeling my kids high school plan after this man.

[DawnM]

I disagree.

 

Positive praise for a job well done can go a LONG way to build confidence.  It does not make one weak.

 

Too many catch phrases in this list and so many other variables.

 

I do not respond to mean at all.  Still don't, even today.  It doesn't make me study harder or work harder to prove anything.....it just makes me shut down and walk away.

 

 

Interesting long article in WSJ on 27 Sep 2013.  Link 

 

" Studies have now shown, among other things, the benefits of moderate childhood stress; how praise kills kids' self-esteem; and why grit is a better predictor of success than SAT scores.

.....

1. A little pain is good for you.

2. Drill, baby, drill.

3. Failure is an option.

4. Strict is better than nice.

5. Creativity can be learned.

6. Grit trumps talent.

7. Praise makes you weak…

8.…while stress makes you strong."

 

[creekland]

I disagree.

 

Positive praise for a job well done can go a LONG way to build confidence.  It does not make one weak.

 

 

Agreed.  This goes along with the idea that one can be strict and nice.

 

Mean is often counterproductive.  Even if one works due to "mean-ness" one seldom gets a "best effort."

 

However, praise when unearned can improperly inflate an ego and also be counterproductive.

 

It's a tricky balance.

[tabinfl]

Here's another interesting take on the topic of success: http://www.radiolab.org/story/91971-secrets-of-success/ (audio podcast)

 

They point out a piece that's often left out of the "talent or hard work?" discussions. For lack of a better word, it's passion -- that thing that keeps a talented child working hard enough for long enough (the fabled 10,000 hours) to develop their natural ability into something greater. It's more than grit, it's a love for their particular niche so strong that they will go to any lengths for opportunities to do their thing.

[TeacherZee]

I do think that there is truth in the article, there is a fine line between being demanding and being mean. My best teacher was my high school history teacher. Some would call her mean. To me she was demanding but not mean. It is about knowing your students, what do they respond to.

[momacacia]

Expectations. Appropriate expectations. I'd even say high, if those are appropriate in a given area. "I know you are capable of this, but you're putting in too little effort to accomplish your best." And, stress can make you sick. :-(

[Dana]

I liked the article. I agree with most of what he says. It's tough to find that balance between being strict and encouraging....

[GailV]

I disagree.

 

Positive praise for a job well done can go a LONG way to build confidence.  It does not make one weak.

 

Too many catch phrases in this list and so many other variables.

 

I do not respond to mean at all.  Still don't, even today.  It doesn't make me study harder or work harder to prove anything.....it just makes me shut down and walk away.

 

I suspect the line about praise is referring to the tendency in our culture to praise results rather than praising effort.  Studies have shown that praising children for results has a negative effect on future output, since they become afraid of losing their "superior" status and therefor stop accepting new challenges.  Praising kids for effort tends to have the opposite effect -- the kids will try harder and harder tasks.  Carol Dweck is one of the researchers in this area -- we've discussed her book Mindset here on the forum.

 

So, yeah, praise can go either way insofar as making someone weaker.  But the typical manner in which it is doled out in our culture tends to have a weakening effect.

 

I see nothing about "mean" on the list.  "Strict" doesn't equal "mean".

 

I suspect the list is simply to make us stop and think about these points -- not to be taken as the 8 commandments of teaching.

[Dmmetler]

Strict but supportive is what my DD thrives on. That is, when she has someone saying "That's not good enough from you-I KNOW you can do better, so try it again", she thrives. When she gets "That's not good enough" without the "I have confidence that you can do better" part of the message, she wilts. When she gets "You're smart, you're wonderful, you're perfect", especially if it's something that's easy for her, she loses all faith in that adult and doesn't believe anything they say.

 

It's hard because her first response to any negative is tears-but she needs the "You can do better, do it again", even while she's crying, because if she doesn't get it, it won't work.

 

So far, male teachers/coaches seem to be better at hitting that sweet spot than women, and I'm not sure there's a single homeschool mom in our group who DD actually trusts to accurately assess her work because so many of them gush all over everything every single child does, no matter what.

 

 

[JumpyTheFrog]

Great article. My best teachers were the old-fashioned type with high expectations for their students. I only had two that pushed me to get better in k-12: my 7th and 8th grade band teacher (who gave me private lessons at school for free one year) and my very old -fashioned 5th grade teacher.

 

At gymnastics, I've heard some of the other moms complain about one of the boys' team coaches. One of them said, "He never says anything nice." The truth is, he doesn't coddle the kids. His coaching could be better (he doesn't give enouh specific feedback), but he doesn't tell them they did a great job unless they really did. Anyway, last week, he told Tigger that he is the best on the rings and that he wished Tigger was competing on the high bar. Tigger practices with the team, but didn't want to compete, because he thinks everyone is much better than him. I explained to him that for that coach to say those things, it means he is better than he thinks he is and that if he were to compete, he would find that he would do better than he thinks. The coach's praise only means something because he doesn't praise the kids all the time, so they know he means it.

[Leav97]

"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."

- Kevin Durant

 

My favorite swimming coaches are the ones that are on top of the kids when they are doing it wrong and right there congratulating them when they do it correctly.  Praise only means something when it's real.  If you get an award for showing up, awards lose their meaning.