second grade math for a boy coming out of PS

[Esse Quam Videri]

I have a friend who is pulling her son out of second grade. We use/love Singapore math, and I've always recommended it to homeschool friends. But for this friend, I'm hesitant to suggest it, for several reasons... Is SM difficult to jump into from a PS background? Also, I don't think my friend has the drive/time to relearn a new math style. She's openly admitted she doesn't have much time for homeschool this year (she's a single mother who works and is in school herself). I worry SM would frustrate her and she would have trouble teaching it. I think she would really benefit from something VERY scripted. I don't know what to do? What would you all recommend in this situation?

[lorisuewho]

Christian Light Education might be a good fit.  There is lots of explanation and because it is spiral and reviews a lot there would be plenty of opportunity to fill in any gaps (if there are any) from public school to homeschool. 

 

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

I'd go for Saxon because it's spiral, reinforcing prior concepts as new ones are introduced -- exactly what is NOT done in many PS math classes.  One caveat -- look for the older editions used on Amazon/Ebay.  There are many compliants that once Saxon died and a new publisher put out his books, the content just wasn't the same.  It may also take some experimentation -- we started Saxon 2nd grade in 1st grade.  Depends on the kid.

 

I haven't had trouble teaching Saxon, and I'm an old English major who managed to not take any math past high school.  You can get a Saxon teacher DVD that lays everything out step by step, too.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Math Mammoth. Conceptual like SM, but more incremental. Uses a work text written to the student. Couldn't be easier to teach.

[Dramorellis]

My 7 year old 2nd grader is doing Math in Focus, some Singapore Math worksheets for review and Beast Academy this year. Last year he was in PS for 1st and they were using Singapore as well and some MIF so I stuck with it. I find it easy to teach. I have the TM but I don't really need it. It's open and go for me with no prep. 

[Roadrunner]

What did they use in school? PS math can be anything. My kids used enVision at school, which looks very much like SM workbook in terms of problems. I wouldn't dismiss a good program assuming it's too difficult. MM sounds like a good recommendation as well (we have never used it, but it has a good reputation).

[Jean in Newcastle]

If she does use something like Math Mammoth, then she should administer the placement test.  

[Esse Quam Videri]

Math Mammoth. Conceptual like SM, but more incremental. Uses a work text written to the student. Couldn't be easier to teach.

 

I was thinking MM, but I'm not sure there is enough hand holding for her as the instructor. We use the blue series just to reinforce some things but it's pretty much independent. I think she would benefit from something more scripted.

[Esse Quam Videri]

What did they use in school? PS math can be anything. My kids used enVision at school, which looks very much like SM workbook in terms of problems. I wouldn't dismiss a good program assuming it's too difficult. MM sounds like a good recommendation as well (we have never used it, but it has a good reputation).

 

 

They are in rural Iowa and used a very traditional approach. I had another friend from the same district pull her twins out as fourth graders. She tried Singapore and struggled through it for about 6 months, only to decide she wasn't cut out for homeschooling and put them back in school. A year later, she pulled them out again and started all the way over with MUS. She says she'll never forgive me for the Singapore fail :D. Obviously, every kid is different and 2nd grade is still pretty young. I just don't want her to struggle with SM and end up getting behind. She may enroll him in K12 at some point in the next few years as well, so it should be something that can transition into that.

 

I don't know... still would love to hear some more thoughts.

[Esse Quam Videri]

Christian Light Education might be a good fit.  There is lots of explanation and because it is spiral and reviews a lot there would be plenty of opportunity to fill in any gaps (if there are any) from public school to homeschool. 

 

Does CLE have a scripted teacher's manual? Does it schedule in games/lesson at the beginning of each lesson?

[My3girls]

We pulled from ps, and dd7 & 8 are doing well with math mammoth. They read it out loud to me; I answer any questions; I do a few of the first problems in the set with them; then they take off. I expect to have to teach a little more on more difficult topics. There was about a 2 week transition period where they complained it was too hard, but now, they knock it out with no complaints. Our ps taught the spiral approach, and it was not successful at all for us. MM is more of a mastery approach with some review, and I love the emphasis on mental math.

[SilverMoon]

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Edited May 29 by SilverMoon

[Guest]

Rod and Staff or Bob Jones. I use the Distance Learning DVDs for BJU. It is $$$ but worth it. BUT it can be taught using just the HIGHLY scripted TM easily. He can start at grade level (2nd grade, you said?) BJU also has an online version.

 

CLE is written to the child. The TM is still esential, to me, for extra helps and the solutions key. It moves fast, though and is spiral like Saxon. I think he could start at grade level easily.

 

All 3 of these are excellent choices. I would NOT suggest a Singapore approach to any kids straight out of PS or who may go to K12 later. The scope is too different and the method is too different. 

 

R&S and CLE are not much money to try out. BJU is a good blend but it is expensive.

[Mandylubug]

R&S is very traditional and straightforward. She can do the brief 5 or 10 minute lesson on a dry erase board, instruct on his independent work and set him free to work alone. Very easy for us.

[lorisuewho]

Does CLE have a scripted teacher's manual? Does it schedule in games/lesson at the beginning of each lesson?

 

CLE has a very scripted manual for the levels I have used (first and second).  There are not games, but there are hands on things to do with some of the lessons.

 

Rod and Staff, like mentioned above, also have a very scripted manual.  It is easy to use and builds on concepts nicely.

[Esse Quam Videri]

Does anyone know which workbook is busier (more problems per page) between CLE and R&S? She did mention her son prefers less writing if possible. I personally like mastery, but then again I've never actually used anything spiral :tongue_smilie:.

[lorisuewho]

After second grade, Rod and Staff becomes a text book.  CLE continues with workbooks.  I don't know if that would be a factor or not.

 

Both are very clean uncluttered pages.  In second grade, there is more of a variety to topics covered each day in CLE because it is spiral.  There are maybe 4 pages to complete and the learning in included right in the student workbook.

 

In Rod and Staff the teaching is contained in the manual, but not in the student book.  this may give a cleaner look to the page for the student.

 

In both books in 2nd grade the printing is plenty big and gives plenty of room to work problems.  I have one child doing CLE and MEP, and I have another child doing Rod and Staff along with Challenging Word Problems.

 

I really like both CLE and Rod and Staff a lot.  I give high recommendations to both programs and the teaching that is included in both.

[roanna]

I have used CLE and R&S.  I liked CLE but it is very spiral and my son is not great at math so he was drowning in it.

He is now doing R&S grade 2 and it is very much mastery and has 4 pages for each lesson but I usually have him just do the 3 pages.  If he is good at math I'd choose CLE, if he struggles a bit then R&S.

 

Both have TM but the R&S one is very to the point and basic, the CLE one has more helpful hint type things to do.  

[Twilight Woods]

Both my kids have just come out of PS. My 2nd grader did Envision math for 1st grade at school... She does well with MM. I teach the concept first which typically does not take long then she completes the worksheet to show she understood... sometime I do not need to teach it -she just get's it. MY oldest does Saxon. She needs the parts/whole/spiral approach. 

[kiwik]

she is single, working, in school herself and admits she won't have much time to homeschool? Unless the kid is miserable I would suggest she left him in school for a while. (being said as a single working mother of two).

[Esse Quam Videri]

she is single, working, in school herself and admits she won't have much time to homeschool? Unless the kid is miserable I would suggest she left him in school for a while. (being said as a single working mother of two).

 

I've talked to her about that too... I don't think it's going to happen. He was having major issues in school and she really wants him at home. I'm trying to respect her authority as his parent and support that decision, though I don't know if it's the best one right now.

[kiwik]

I've talked to her about that too... I don't think it's going to happen. He was having major issues in school and she really wants him at home. I'm trying to respect her authority as his parent and support that decision, though I don't know if it's the best one right now.

It is a hard place to be when both options have serious drawbacks. I hope it all goes well for them both.

[OneStepAtATime]

She might consider Time for Learning.  My son was pulled out of 2nd grade after a really toxic year with a terrible teacher.  I had to come up with a curriculum overnight.  Time for Learning for 2nd grade was great since he was able to do it independently most of the time.  I was not in a position to do much teaching when we pulled him.  Time for Learning kept him engaged in the learning process until I could rework my schedule and do a more teacher intensive curriculum.  The 2nd grade material is pretty well done and my son enjoyed most of it.  He learned a lot of concepts and was excited about nearly every subject.  After 2nd, some of the material seemed to be poorly done, so we didn't continue for 3rd grade, but 2nd was really pretty good.  My son loved seeing the overall picture of what he needed to accomplish for the year and my biggest problem tended to be trying to get him to stop for the day (Ah, Mom, just one more lesson, please, so I can finish this section by the end of the week?").  There are supplemental worksheets that can be printed out to use with the curriculum and all grades are tracked for the parent.

 

If she doesn't want an overall computer based curriculum. for math there is Teaching Textbooks.  Kids can usually use it independently and it teaches the student math through DVD lessons,  Even though it says it doesn't start until 3rd grade, it is actually a grade behind public school.  She can get on the site and print out an assessment test to see if he could handle the 3rd grade Teaching Textbook material (which is actually closer to 2nd grade in my opinion).  All grades are tracked for the parent and lessons are done on the computer but you don't need internet access.  My kids use this with Math Mammoth.

 

She might look on Homeschool Buyer's Co-op for other options at relatively low cost, along with Curr-Click and Teachers Pay Teachers.  I have found some great resources at all three, but especially the first one.

 

If the child is really struggling and miserable, she may need to seek a private assessment.  There could be learning issues she and the school have not discovered yet, including vision issues (even if normal vision screening is fine), working memory issues, auditory processing issues (even if normal hearing screenings are fine), stealth dyslexia (even if the child can read) or stealth dysgraphia (even if the child seems ok with writing), dyscalculia, ADD, ADHD, etc.  Schools are frequently ill-equiped for accurate assessment of learning differences and many children go un-diagnosed or misdianosed or are blamed for struggle s with learning because of "bad behavior" or "lack of focus" when in fact they have a learning issue that is causing tremendous frustration and disconnect in the learning process.  Sometimes the causes are extremely subtle and hard to find without professional help.  A private assessment may also uncover unknown strengths that can be very helpful in the learning process.  My own children had great strengths that we knew nothing about until we had a private assessment. The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide is a great book for better understanding how children think and learn and what issues may be causing difficulty with the learning process. I highly recommend it.

[Tidbits of Learning]

Given that scenario, I would find what the school used and continue with it for this year.  It will be familiar to the student and mom.  I really wish that I would have done that with my dd's coming out of ps to homeschool 3rd and 4th grade.  We struggled and had to go back to square one with the homeschool materials and it wasn't b/c the children didn't have the concepts down.  They did.  They just hadn't memorized basic facts.  I really wish that I would have used a math fact finder that year and their public school math books for those grades and just did drill, drill, drill for the facts.  

We spent about 3 years spinning our wheels with math and trying every type of math program out there.  They were stagnant and not moving forward in math b/c we had to go back and learn the way the new math programs worked.  I would really suggest sticking with the math the child is used to and figuring out what needs extra tutoring instead of trying to jump into a different style of math altogether.

[OneStepAtATime]

Given that scenario, I would find what the school used and continue with it for this year.  It will be familiar to the student and mom.  I really wish that I would have done that with my dd's coming out of ps to homeschool 3rd and 4th grade.  We struggled and had to go back to square one with the homeschool materials and it wasn't b/c the children didn't have the concepts down.  They did.  They just hadn't memorized basic facts.  I really wish that I would have used a math fact finder that year and their public school math books for those grades and just did drill, drill, drill for the facts.  

We spent about 3 years spinning our wheels with math and trying every type of math program out there.  They were stagnant and not moving forward in math b/c we had to go back and learn the way the new math programs worked.  I would really suggest sticking with the math the child is used to and figuring out what needs extra tutoring instead of trying to jump into a different style of math altogether.

I guess this would depend on why she is pulling the child out of school in the first place.  My son probably would have done better in the short run if we hadn't bounced around on math programs when we took him out of school, but the system they were using in school for lower elementary was not that effective for him.  He was doing ok, and probably would have continued to do just o.k. with the system they were using in school, but that is all.  Long term it would not be one I would ever choose for him.  Now we are getting back on a steadier track for him, even though we had to experiment a little with curriculum.  The rote memorization pushed in school didn't work for him, and basic math facts were not being learned, but we have been able to find manipulatives and other tactile and auditory learning processes that make sense to him.  

 

My older child did not function well at ALL with the math program that was being used for upper elementary in her brick and mortar school.  It was a nightmare and she could not comprehend it.  There were lines out the door of the school on more than one occasion as parents waited to talk to the teacher or the administrator about the poor math curriculum and the poor instruction to go along with it.  Math became a terrifying ordeal and sapped all her confidence.  She is now way behind in math for multiple reasons,including because the teacher just kept fudging the scores and passing the kids so she could keep her job.  We, as parents, didn't really realize how behind the kids were getting until 5th grade.  My daughter also has dyscalculia but we didn't catch it for years because of the poor curriculum and poor teacher (same lousy teacher for 3 years).  We didn't realize that she had extra issues that needed to be addressed very explicitly and early and she did not get that instruction until now in 7th grade.  If i had continued to use the school's curriculum, even if I could have presented it in a better way than the teacher had, I believe it would have wasted additional time for us.  My daughter needed to get as far away from reminders of that terrible experience as possible so we could find a better, more positive path.

 

That being said, If the parent is pulling her child from school for other reasons, but feels that the math curriculum being used is effective, then she may definitely be better off continuing that curriculum if it is fairly easy to learn independently.  She may be able to get the textbook and workbooks, etc. from Abe Books or Amazon.  She just needs the ISBN to make certain she is getting the correct materials.  Hopefully, the school administrator will allow her to get that information (or maybe a friendly teacher?).  Before we decided to pull the kids out of school, I was buying some of the textbooks and workbooks they used at school at Abe Books for next to nothing ($75 textbook used and in good condition for $5 etc.).  It helped to have a set at home so we could study areas that were giving them trouble or areas that they wanted to study in more depth even if the kids were told not to bring their textbook home that day.  I still keep those books around for additional reference and to track what topics are being covered in the brick and mortar schools in our area.