MEVmom Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Last year we used AAS for spelling and FLL for grammar (my son was in 1st grade). My son completed 4 levels of AAS and 2 levels of FLL. We really like both. However, they depend upon parent instruction. My son is an extremely strong reader and is the type that could do more independent work if we gave it to him. And it would help if he could work indepentently on more things since this year my daughter will be in 1st grade and will need our attention for speeling & grammar. Is there a good grammar program that DS could do on his own, at least mostly? I kow Rod & Staff and Shurley are highly recommended, but I've never used them....I grew up on A Beka so that is all I have experience with. Also if anyone has ever figured out a way to make AAS more of an independent work thing, please let me know! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000HillsRanch Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I am interested in what people say too. LA is making me crazy. I used Rod and Staff with my second grader last year. It could be independent.... but I thought it was too much writing so I gave it orally which I thought worked much better. I was thinking of Abeka because that just looked like a workbook that I could assign pages in and he could go do it without me. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) . Edited May 29 by SilverMoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarynB Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I wouldn't do an independent grammar program with a 2nd grader. Just spend the time on reading for now, and he'll learn a lot of grammar naturally that way at this age. But if you really want formal grammar Easy Grammar is one he could probably do independently if you spend a few minutes getting him started on each lesson. (R&S really works better with a teacher.) Easy Grammar starts at grade 3 level which is probably fine if he's already done FLL1 and 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Yes, I would say Easy Grammar. Bob Jones is another possibility as they usually have enough examples to guide the student, but check current samples. It has been years since I used it. Shurley has to be taught. Rod and Staff is better if there is some teaching and drill. A Beka has to be taught. In general though, little kids aren't as good learning independently. Mine were ready to teach themselves some subjects starting around 4th or 5th grade, and we're still getting there at times with subjects in late high school. I have one who gets stuck in math and just shuts down and gives up. So I have to watch that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEVmom Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 Hmmm...Ok. I guess I'm just really struggling with the schedule since I have two at different levels (plus a preschooler). They do some stuff together but can't do math, spelling, or grammar together. I tried to work out a schedule the other day and it has me engaged in school from 9-3 (with a break to make lunch & cleanup). That doesn't include chores or piano or anything. I'm kindo of thinking when am I going to actually get other things done? But maybe I'm not being realistic with kids at this age... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatmansWife Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Shurley is definitely parent involved (I know nothing about R&S and Abeka). I would suggest Growing with Grammar...with Easy Grammar being my next suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarynB Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Well, I don't have any BTDT experience with multiple young ones, but my first thought (gently) is that if you're homeschooling from 9 to 3, with a 2nd grader and a 1st grader, then you're probably doing too much. My son is a 6th grader. Trust me, there's PLENTY of time for longer, really serious school days when they're older! Maybe if you post the schedule you've worked out we can offer more feedback. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 If you are looking for mostly independent LA, you might check CLE. The instructions are written to the student. We have had wonderful success with it. Shurley is parent-intensive and so is R & S. I'm not sure about Abeka. I don't think AAS can be independent, at all. If you are looking for an independent spelling program, you'd have to use something else. As a side note, with young children, you won't have much free time at all. You'll just be busy with school, all day, like me. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Well, I don't have any BTDT experience with multiple young ones, but my first thought (gently) is that if you're homeschooling from 9 to 3, with a 2nd grader and a 1st grader, then you're probably doing too much. My son is a 6th grader. Trust me, there's PLENTY of time for longer, really serious school days when they're older! Maybe if you post the schedule you've worked out we can offer more feedback. :grouphug: I had this thought, too, but while I am schooling my children all day, they are not schooling all day, if that makes sense. With several students to teach, my day is much longer than their day. I am working with someone nonstop from 7-3, but my kids have lots of breaks during that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 So you're going to have a 1st and 2nd grader (plus a 3-4 year old) and it was taking you until 3pm to finish the 3R's this past year. Grammar can wait until 3rd grade, for which I use R&S English 3. Other than the 2 min. oral review, it was independent unless she didn't understand something. My 2nd grader this year just wanted more work to do, so I got her Climbing to Good English 2, a workbook, which was also very independent. When I had a 1st and 2nd grader I combined spelling, which was still teacher-intensive, so then I switched to R&S spelling which begins in 2nd grade and is fairly independent. ETA: it takes about 1.5 hours or less to finish the 3Rs here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEVmom Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 Ok here is what I'm thinking.... 8:00 breakfast & family devotions 9:00 Math lesson with DD (DS reading literature selection) 9:30 Math lesson with DS (DD reading) 10:00 Big kids break while I do preschool with the 3.5 yr old 10:30 Bible/Memory Work with all 3 11:00 DD & DS do 15 min math worksheet (saxon) and 15 min handwriting lesson 11:30 break while I prepare lunch 12:00 lunch + a few chores? 1:00 DH does spelling & grammar with DS while I do phonics with DD 1:30 DH does spelling/grammar with DD while DS does piano practice 2:00 History/Science on alternating days?...unless I'm doing classical conversations, in which case I probably won't do much more for history than read a selection from SOTW or something. It feels like a lot but maybe this is normal? I don't know how to get it all in. The schedule is tight too...not much room for the inevitable discipline issue, etc throughout the day. I mean I know if they were in school they'd be doing stuff all day. On the other hand, I always hear of these homeschool families having the afternoon free...that's not happening here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warneral Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Easy - skip a year! He already did 2 levels of FLL? Take next year off. Maybe read grammar land or sentence family with him. He is far too young to do independent grammar and has already had a good taste for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Here's our schedule: 700-800: Breakfast 800-1130: Independent work: math, english, spelling, literature (dd9), and 1 enrichment (history, science, geography) for my 3rd & 4th graders. I'm available to help, but meanwhile I am reading aloud books and doing simple crafts with my 2, 3, and 5 year old in the next room until 1000, then I do mom-intensive school with my dd5 (handwriting, math, phonics, reading) **I can do this because the subjects are independent and my kids are older. When my kids were in 1st & 2nd, they did math, spelling was combined, copywork, and reading aloud to me. There was NO grammar, literature, history, science, or geography. Seriously, those things can wait! 1130-100 - Lunch/break/chores 100-200 - Quiet time: 2 & 3 year old take a nap. 5, 7 & 9 year olds read books on the couch w/out talking. 200-300 - Teacher-intensive work while babies are asleep: Composition (dd9), Latin (dd7 & dd9), memory work (dd5, dd7, dd9) 300+ unfinished school and free time. 730: get ready for bed, then family devotional. 800: bedtime for 2 & 3 year old, read aloud to 5, 7, & 9 year old 900: older kids go to bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I am interested in what people say too. LA is making me crazy. I used Rod and Staff with my second grader last year. It could be independent.... but I thought it was too much writing so I gave it orally which I thought worked much better. I was thinking of Abeka because that just looked like a workbook that I could assign pages in and he could go do it without me. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. I would still recommend R&S. It is intended to be done independently; all of the instruction is in the student text. And there might not be as much writing as you think. Sometimes the children are supposed to write only the correct, punctuation, or only the incorrect sentences and make corrections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Last year we used AAS for spelling and FLL for grammar (my son was in 1st grade). My son completed 4 levels of AAS and 2 levels of FLL. We really like both. However, they depend upon parent instruction. My son is an extremely strong reader and is the type that could do more independent work if we gave it to him. And it would help if he could work independently on more things since this year my daughter will be in 1st grade and will need our attention for spelling & grammar. Is there a good grammar program that DS could do on his own, at least mostly? I know Rod & Staff and Shurley are highly recommended, but I've never used them....I grew up on A Beka so that is all I have experience with. Also if anyone has ever figured out a way to make AAS more of an independent work thing, please let me know! Thanks Do you want *just* grammar? Because R&S, ABeka, and Shurley include writing. If you want *only* grammar, then my recommendation would be Easy Grammar (although IMHO, it is important for *you* to make corrections after every single assignment, rather than letting your dc make corrections). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakblossoms Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I would skip for a few years. Just correct his work as he writes for other subjects. Have him do copy work out of books you are reading. I find around grade 5 or 6 my kids started to get grammar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarynB Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Ok here is what I'm thinking.... 8:00 breakfast & family devotions 9:00 Math lesson with DD (DS reading literature selection) 9:30 Math lesson with DS (DD reading) 10:00 Big kids break while I do preschool with the 3.5 yr old 10:30 Bible/Memory Work with all 3 11:00 DD & DS do 15 min math worksheet (saxon) and 15 min handwriting lesson 11:30 break while I prepare lunch 12:00 lunch + a few chores? 1:00 DH does spelling & grammar with DS while I do phonics with DD 1:30 DH does spelling/grammar with DD while DS does piano practice 2:00 History/Science on alternating days?...unless I'm doing classical conversations, in which case I probably won't do much more for history than read a selection from SOTW or something. It feels like a lot but maybe this is normal? I don't know how to get it all in. The schedule is tight too...not much room for the inevitable discipline issue, etc throughout the day. I mean I know if they were in school they'd be doing stuff all day. On the other hand, I always hear of these homeschool families having the afternoon free...that's not happening here. When my kids were in 1st & 2nd, they did math, spelling was combined, copywork, and reading aloud to me. There was NO grammar, literature, history, science, or geography. Seriously, those things can wait! I agree with Abigail about the subjects to be covered at that age. If you still feel a need to cover history, literature, science, etc., how about having the kids listen to Story of the World audiobooks while you do other things? Or watch a nature/animal documentary or Magic School Bus for science? Or cover those subjects together via bedtime reading? Not all schooling happens during daylight hours or only M - F. And another aspect of your schedule that stands out to me. . . 1.5 hours for prepping lunch, eating, and chores? That's a huge chunk out of the middle of your day. It really helps around my house when I do meal planning and batch cooking on the weekends, even if its just for one week at a time. I either prepare double or triple batches of everything, we eat last night's dinner leftovers for lunch, or we keep lunch extremely simple, like cheese and fruit or sandwiches. My house isn't spotless, but it's functionally clean. At that age, my DS was dusting, helping with dishes, vacuuming, sweeping, wiping down bathroom sink and tub, etc. Everyone pitches in on laundry, folds their own and puts it away. It won't be perfect but it will be good enough. This is a busy season in life and something's got to give. : ) Probably not exactly the advice you were looking for, and maybe you're already doing those things, but hopefully it helps a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in TX Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Christian Light is designed to be used independently by the student. And it covers spelling too. I've used Rod and Staff in the past, but I like Christian Light more. Susan in TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEVmom Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 I agree with Abigail about the subjects to be covered at that age. If you still feel a need to cover history, literature, science, etc., how about having the kids listen to Story of the World audiobooks while you do other things? Or watch a nature/animal documentary or Magic School Bus for science? Or cover those subjects together via bedtime reading? Not all schooling happens during daylight hours or only M - F. And another aspect of your schedule that stands out to me. . . 1.5 hours for prepping lunch, eating, and chores? That's a huge chunk out of the middle of your day. It really helps around my house when I do meal planning and batch cooking on the weekends, even if its just for one week at a time. I either prepare double or triple batches of everything, we eat last night's dinner leftovers for lunch, or we keep lunch extremely simple, like cheese and fruit or sandwiches. My house isn't spotless, but it's functionally clean. At that age, my DS was dusting, helping with dishes, vacuuming, sweeping, wiping down bathroom sink and tub, etc. Everyone pitches in on laundry, folds their own and puts it away. It won't be perfect but it will be good enough. This is a busy season in life and something's got to give. : ) Probably not exactly the advice you were looking for, and maybe you're already doing those things, but hopefully it helps a little. Thanks for your feedback. I just want to make sure I'm doing enough and giving them a thorough education...I never know what to hold onto and what to let go. Last year I did the subjects I mentioned with DS as a first grader. DD was in K but she listened along with hist/sci. But now that I'm adding her in at a different level with spelling & grammar things are getting complicated. I wish I had combined them last year but my son is very advanced and DD wouldn't have been ready for that. I like the idea of not doing grammar with DS this year and letting DD catch up...then maybe combining them. The downside there is that I don't know if I can get her through both levels of FLL this year. The year after, DS would be in 3rd grade and ready for R&S, but I don't know if DD would be (esp if she made it through just one level of FLL. And there is no way I can combine them with spelling. He will be doing AAS level 5 this year! DD on the other hand will be lucky to get through the first two levels this year. As for the middle of day...It does usually take me +/-30 min to get lunch on the table. I don't know how long the meal + chores will take, I'm just guessing... I have tried various systems with chores. We've done the one-major-chore-each-day plan, and we've done the block of chores on Friday when we aren't schooling. I haven't figured out which method is best. My older two are pretty good with chores. They can fold their laundry, clean bathroom, vaccuum, sweept, dust... Normally we eat leftovers the night after I make it and some sort of sandwich for lunch...we have a rotation- lunchmeat, tuna, BLT, panini, grilled cheese. It would be hard for me to prepare any of that in batches on the weekend. But I'd love to figure out a way to streamline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagira Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Galore Park Jr. English could be done independently. Just read ahead, assign what hog will, and voila. Or you could just have your child do one assignment at a time, written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Hmmm...Ok. I guess I'm just really struggling with the schedule since I have two at different levels (plus a preschooler). They do some stuff together but can't do math, spelling, or grammar together. I tried to work out a schedule the other day and it has me engaged in school from 9-3 (with a break to make lunch & cleanup). That doesn't include chores or piano or anything. I'm kindo of thinking when am I going to actually get other things done? But maybe I'm not being realistic with kids at this age... Here are some things which helped me to take care of household things: I shower at night; in the morning I get dressed as soon as I get up, and I make my bed before I leave my bedroom. If I don't get any thing accomplished the rest of the day, my bed is made and my clothes are ON. Woohoo! I start on breakfast right away. The dc get up and get dressed and have breakfast, and we make beds. And then--this is important--I clean the kitchen immediately, including washing and drying and putting away the dishes (before I had a dishwasher; now the dishes go into the dishwasher right away). So now, all of us are dressed and fed, the beds are made, and the kitchen is clean. We are good to go. :-) I always, always, always clean the kitchen immediately after a meal, and there's no random snacking/cooking/messes going on between meals. Fridays were major cleaning days: all the laundry, clean the bathrooms, move the furniture and vacuum, dust the furniture, everything. During the week it was just maintenance (but remember that the kitchen is always clean, we're all dressed, and the beds are made). We were ready for Official School Stuff by 9 a.m., and we were finished by noon (after lunch, I read aloud *one chapter* from a good book). That left afternoons for naps, chores, errands, etc. Simple, simple lunches. IMHO, your younger dc doesn't need grammar. You can give her something simple to do while you work with your older dc on, say, math, then let him do seatwork while you work with your dd on her math. Then y'all can do something together, history or science or whatever, then you give your older dc an assignment to do independently while you work with your younger dc, and so on. At their ages, I wouldn't expect them to have to work longer than, oh, 15 or 20 minutes independently. Note: My dc are grown and gone. My verb tenses tend to go back and forth between past and present, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEVmom Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 I really like the idea of cleaning the kitchen right away. I used to do that then kind of drifted away from it last school year. I found I was having a hard time getting that in before school. Maybe it would be best to delay grammar for DD...Maybe not do it for either of them. I do feel I need to start spelling with her though. DS could take a year off from it. Of course then for the next year I'm right back here with the same problem...how to get them both doing different levels of grammar and spelling plus having to add in Latin at some point (DS would be in 3rd grade by then). In the midst of all this, I'm trying to make a decision about CC too...not sure if it would help or hurt our schedule at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialkmom Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 If your ds has done through AAS 4, switch to something more independent there. I switched mine at AAS3 to R&S4. He can work on that mostly on his own. He's more of a natural speller and while he liked AAS, he didn't really need it. Those first few years are tough because the kids need you for almost everything it seems. I'm struggling with the time and schedule too. With your 1st grader, I'd just concentrate on the three R's, and as the school year progresses add in other things. I'm not planning to start FLL 1 with my 1st grader until maybe halfway through the year, if at all. I'm more concerned with getting him reading well. I'm combining reading instruction, handwriting, and will probably progress to some spelling with LOE Foundations. We started last week and its been much better than what we had been doing before. For history and science, plan on it being light especially for your 1st grader. I have my 3rd grader read a small part of SOTW everyday on his own, and we all listen to SOTW audio once, maybe twice a week. We might read another book or do a map or coloring page, but that's it. Science is Magic School Bus video, which even the littles love. I have RS4K which we read once a week and do the one experiment. There is a free lesson plan that stretches it out over 20 weeks, so you could read one week and do the experiment the next week. I bought a microscope for the kids and we talk about science things a lot. They learn a lot just on their own. You could use copy work to keep your 2nd grader's grammar in his head. That wouldn't take much time. Here is what my 3rd grader does independently: read SOTW, read a chapter from a book, a section of spelling, math review/drill sheet. I still briefly go over spelling before he works on it. Pretty much everything else is with me. My 1st grader has nothing independent, except playing with his younger siblings ;) My 4yr old asks for school too, but I only do focused things maybe 2-3x a week with her. Numbers and sounds, that's about it. After talking to some other ladies with several kids very close in age, I've pretty much resigned myself to not being finished by lunch. Although we did ok today. My oldest just has reading left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warneral Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 My kids are 2 years apart but 1 yr apart in school. When dd was in 2nd and ds was in 3rd, I started homeschooling them. Public school had very little grammar but they did understand basic parts of speech. First year homeschooling, we started with growing with grammar and hated it. Ds was learning nothing, but dd thought it was fun. After looking at FLL3 samples I realized that both my 2 nd and 3rd grader could probably do it together and we did. It teaches the basics so we didn't need previous FLL levels as prerequisites. fLL3 was great for my kids. We did it together as one little class. Dd had no problem diagramming sentences or anything. Last year she was 3rd and he was 4th. We did R&S 4 together. No problem! She needed a little more practice than he did on identifying object of preposition vs direct object but they both got over 90% on the tests. When you look at grammar scope and sequence, there is yearly repetition of the same concepts with some added complexity. So I will tell you that having both in the same class has been no problem. You could do sentence family together this year and then try FLL3 next year for both. If she struggles, pull back and try another plan. My kids and I really like doing it together :) I decided to(hopefully) spend less time on grammar this year and since level 5 looks close to level 4, we are doing level,6 over 2 years. I chose hake since it has lots of spiral review. My goal is to focus more on writing than grammar this year. Hoping it will work out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I know some here have had mixed results with Growing With Grammar, but we find this to be a solid, straight forward grammar program. It can be done independently, but I like to go over it with them. Even doing that, it is simple and broken into bite-size chunks that takes very little time. The textbook is written to the student. It is usually 2-3 little (half sheet) pages that include examples. It teaches diagramming and continually reviews. A day's lesson would be: read section 1.5 and then do lesson sheet 1.5. The first part of the lesson sheet will focus on the reading in 1.5 then there will be a section with work from 1.2 and 1.3. Then it might conclude with 2 sentences where the child diagrams simple subject and verb. Each grade level gets more in depth. Both of my children use it and have retained the lessons well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awisha. Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Here are some things which helped me to take care of household things: I shower at night; in the morning I get dressed as soon as I get up, and I make my bed before I leave my bedroom. If I don't get any thing accomplished the rest of the day, my bed is made and my clothes are ON. Woohoo! I start on breakfast right away. The dc get up and get dressed and have breakfast, and we make beds. And then--this is important--I clean the kitchen immediately, including washing and drying and putting away the dishes (before I had a dishwasher; now the dishes go into the dishwasher right away). So now, all of us are dressed and fed, the beds are made, and the kitchen is clean. We are good to go. :-) I always, always, always clean the kitchen immediately after a meal, and there's no random snacking/cooking/messes going on between meals. Fridays were major cleaning days: all the laundry, clean the bathrooms, move the furniture and vacuum, dust the furniture, everything. During the week it was just maintenance (but remember that the kitchen is always clean, we're all dressed, and the beds are made). Off topic but thankyou for typing this out Ellie. It is just what I needed to hear :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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