Testing out of high school subjects

[bobbeym]

DD19 has decided she's taking a career-prep path towards her diploma instead of spending the next 3 years trying to catch up on courses. She has no desire to go to any college at this point and is happy at her job.

 

We've added a 3-credit "Career Prep" course to her transcript based on the track offered by our local public high school. Texas doesn't have any graduation requirements for homeschoolers, but I try to follow the local school as a guide so their transcripts will be somewhat consistent with their peers.

 

As part of this, she wants to take either the COMPASS or THEA test later this year at a local CC to test out of math, reading, and writing. This would ensure that if she decides to attend CC at some future date, she can do so without need for remedial courses. She's also considering taking some CLEP tests for some of the other high school subjects.

 

How would we designate testing out of a subject on the transcript? Chances are extremely high that nobody will ever see her transcript but us, but in the event she needs it, I want to make sure everything is the way it should be.

[Lori D.]

Just FYI: the COMPASS is not a test OUT of kind of test, but a test INTO kind of test. Specifically, the purpose of the COMPASS is to evaluate an incoming university or community college student's skill levels in reading, writing, math, and/or foreign language in order to place the student in the level of math, writing, etc. that the student is ready for at the college. Similarly, the THEA is a college-readiness test.

 

In contrast, something like a CLEP test grants credit and allows you to use the test results to get you "out" of taking an actual course, by crediting you for what you have studied and already know.

 

You would NOT be able to call COMPASS or THEA scores "testing out of a subject" on the transcript, because these tests do not grant credit like AP or CLEP test scores do. The COMPASS and THEA scores just show college readiness and correct placement for college courses. At most, these scores could show validation of your "mommy grades" on the transcript for the math, writing, etc. classes taken during high school homeschool.

 

As far as putting any test scores on a transcript... I would only include test scores for AP, and possibly SAT or ACT scores. The COMPASS or THEA scores are solely for the use of the specific college or university at which the assessment is taken, so there would be no need to have these on a transcript. If DD goes to the school, the school will already have the scores in their records. If DD goes to a different school, she'll have to take their placement assessment test. And if she goes on to a job or other activity, that is not a test score an employer or overseer will care about seeing.

 

 

On the transcript, are you organizing it by year/grade, or by subject area? Since DD's credits are spread out and of various types, I would lean towards organizing by credit. Then, for putting possible CLEP tests on the transcript you can do it one of two ways:

 

 

1. List the course title under the appropriate subject heading, and then instead of a grade, put something like: "PASS (CLEP test on date at name of testing facility) title under the subject. Example:

 

MATHEMATICS

Course . . . . . . . . . Grade . . Credit . . Where/How Accomplished . . . Completion Date

Pre-Algebra . . . . . B . . . 1.00 . . name of high school . . . . . 05/09

Algebra 1 . . . . . . B . . . 1.00 . . home school . . . . . . . . 06/13

College Mathematics . PASS . . 1.00 . . CLEP, name of test facility . . . 09/13

 

 

2. If DD will be doing several CLEPs, you could create a separate sections on the transcript with the heading of something like "CLEP Credits", and then list each course title, the "PASS" instead of a grade, and list the date of testing and the name of the testing facility. Example:

 

CLEP Credits

Course . . . . . . . . . Pass/Fail . . Credit . . Test Facility . . . . . . . . . . . Test Date

American Government . PASS . . .1.00 . . name of test facility . . . . . 09/13

Western Civilizations 1 . PASS . . .1.00 . . name of test facility . . . . . 10/13

Western Civilizations 2 . PASS . . .1.00 . . name of test facility . . . . . 4/14

College Mathematics . . PASS . . .1.00 . . name of test facility . . . . . 12/13

Biology . . . . . . . PASS . . .1.00 . . name of test facility . . . . . 02/14

English Literature . . . PASS . . .1.00 . . name of test facility . . . . . 09/13

 

In either case, be sure to use the specific name of the course/test used by CLEP, the date of the CLEP test, and the facility administering the test.

 

 

Just to summarize:

- COMPASS or THEA tests show ability (or lack of ability) to take a college level class.

- Class Credits, and AP or CLEP tests show academic study and attainment of a specific body of work/knowledge.

 

Hope that helps to clarify the purpose of the different tests. And what a great job of doing a "career prep" track with DD to prepare her for real life! BEST of luck, warmly, Lori D.

[Melissa B]

Why not take the GED?

[regentrude]

I do not understand what you are trying to do. Lori D explained very well what the COMPASS is about. Also, in order to pass a test that tests, say, algebra 2, the student would have to have studied the material - so she would have earned a credit for algebra 2. If she did not study the math, she can't pass the test.

Why not simply go for the GED?

[bobbeym]

Okay, let's see if I can explain this in a way that makes sense to someone outside my head. :laugh: For clarification, DD is really my DIL. I've known her since she was 11, love her dearly as much as any daughter I could have birthed, and am glad to have helped get her away from her crazy family.

 

She doesn't want to get her GED b/c her sister and BIL have basically said she's too stupid to graduate from high school and that she probably couldn't even get a GED. Her BIL made her a bet for if she earns an actual diploma, no matter how long it takes. I don't recall the terms, but it was in her favor.

 

DD had medical issues in 9th/10th grade that kept her out of school and put her behind in classes. She moved that summer and repeated 10th using Nevada's K12 online. Unfortunately, the people she and her mom lived with used her as an unpaid nanny pretty much 24/7 for 3 kids under the age of 5. She wasn't able to look after kids and do schooling, so she dropped out. Her mom didn't care enough to intervene on her behalf for any of it. :cursing: When she moved in with us June 2012, she was 18yo and only had 7.5 credits according to official transcripts from both CA and NV. After her sis/BIL made the bet with her, she asked me to help her get her diploma.

 

I admit this may be more of an issue to me personally that it is to her, but I want to do what I can to help her graduate and be done with formal schooling without spending another 2-3 years to do so. Knowing she has no desire to go to college, but wanting her to at least be able to get into CC if she later desires, I'm not opposed to cutting a few corners here and there.

 

She originally earned 1 credit in Alg 1 and 0.5 in Geometry, but it's been so long that she'd essentially have to retake Alg 1 as a refresher in order to retake Geo. At 19, that doesn't make sense to us to do it that way.

 

Our thought was that if she can pass COMPASS/THEA with scores high enough to not need any type of remedial math couses, then we'd consider her to be tested out of high school math. We use mathhelp.com, which offers both COMPASS and THEA prep programs, so if she gets stuck on something she can always click over to the subject courses for refresher. Since she's just starting to work on a math credit for this year, it made more sense to us for her to work towards being able to pass a college-entrance exam of some sort. I suppose I could have her study towards taking the college math CLEP instead and give her credit for it once she passes.

 

We're not looking to earn college credit for this, just to know that she knows enough math to get into CC should she decide to someday go get her child dev certificate after all (which doesn't require an advanced math course).

[regentrude]

She originally earned 1 credit in Alg 1 and 0.5 in Geometry, but it's been so long that she'd essentially have to retake Alg 1 as a refresher in order to retake Geo. At 19, that doesn't make sense to us to do it that way.

 

 

But she'll have to review algebra for the test anyway and in order to master the geometry that will be on the test. :confused1:

 

Our thought was that if she can pass COMPASS/THEA with scores high enough to not need any type of remedial math couses, then we'd consider her to be tested out of high school math. We use mathhelp.com, which offers both COMPASS and THEA prep programs, so if she gets stuck on something she can always click over to the subject courses for refresher.

 

 

I just don't see how you can expect a student to learn three years of math from using a test prep program without systematic instruction; 1.5 years of material which she had and apparently does not remember, and 1.5 years of material she has not covered at all. I could see an extremely strong math student learning new material this way, but can't imagine this can work for a struggling student who is trying to master new material and on top of it hoping to accomplish this in less time than it would take with a normal course of study.

Please understand that I have no issue with the idea of "testing out", but rather with the idea that one can save time by testing out without actually studying the subject that is being tested.

[Melissa B]

I don't think I really understand either. The best way to get into college later in life would be with a GED as that is the legal equivalent of a high school degree. A homeschool diploma holds no value for a college and can't be used towards entrance later in life and it doesn't sound like you are trying to prepare a full high school transcript but rather test out of high school.

 

I would have no qualms issuing a homeschool diploma to a student that passed the GED exam as it shows through testing (which is what it sounds like you are trying to do) that the required high school subjects have been completed. CLEP exams test college level knowledge, not high school level. I would think that studying for and passing the GED and following that up with a diploma from your homeschool would be the best scenario for your student. And honestly if that doesn't satisfy the bet, I would question its sincerity in the first place.

[Dana]

Good advising would also have her retake the COMPASS if it's been a while between testing and starting classes.

She could take courses at the cc for dual enrollment. That would likely be more useful than CLEP. Our remedial math classes start in arithmetic... or she could look at adult ed classes. My FIL went back and got his high school diploma when dh was in middle school.

[Lori D.]

:hurray: Wow, I so commend you for walking through this with your DIL, and for helping her achieve what her own family would not! I totally understand the desire for the degree (both the "pressure" to show family, and for her own sense of accomplishment) -- and for not wanting it to take 2-3 years (since she is 19yo and wants to move on into a career and her marriage).

 

But...

 

 

We're not looking to earn college credit for this, just to know that she knows enough math to get into CC should she decide to someday go get her child dev certificate after all (which doesn't require an advanced math course)...

 

Chances are extremely high that nobody will ever see her transcript but us, but in the event she needs it, I want to make sure everything is the way it should be

 

The problem with this is that, while *you* will accept this as having completed your home school requirements, no one else will. This is not a valid path for counting learning/education as credit, and if DIL ever needs the diploma and transcript in the future, she has to have earned it through a valid path. She needs to either take classes or study/test to have earned the credits. And the test has to be one that awards credit in some way to verify the learning of a basic body of knowledge (such as CLEP, or passing grades from a series of chapter tests from a high school class).

 

So, while you can choose to follow the path you have outlined, you run the risk of her diploma and transcript being rejected or invalidated in the future if you don't follow a valid method of accruing credits towards graduation. No one else is going to accept a college placement test (COMPASS) as completion of credits.

 

 

The good thing is that DIL has 7.5 credits from high school, and you can set your own requirements for a home school diploma -- 20 credits would be fine minimum. For example: if DIL wants to be done in 1 year's time, that works out to 0.5 credit over the summer, 6 credits in the fall and 6 in the spring. I'd recommend a combination of things to accomplish that goal:

 

1. Take classes as dual enrollment at the Community College

- Counts as both high school AND college credit.

- Often, you can count a one-semester college course as equal in weight as a one-YEAR high school course.

- Some states offer FREE tuition for high school students to take 1-2 classes of dual enrollment.

- Counts towards the diploma AND simultaneously towards the Child Development Certificate DIL wants to earn!

- Be creative in how you set up your high school diploma requirements, so as many as possible fit in with with the CC requirements.

 

2. Study / CLEP

- DIL could count the math, history, and biology CLEPs each as 1 credit.

- This is how students earn a BA through College Plus while finishing the last 2 years of high school -- they are studying/testing at a rate of about 2-4 weeks per class. Even at a slower speed, I'll bet DIL could knock out studying for and taking a CLEP about one every 6-8 weeks

 

3. Set up accelerated home course work for any remaining credits

- "home-grown" course -- make the learning project-based to move more quickly AND to include real life experiences and work)

- self-paced curriculum to move faster (AO Life Pacs; the online math you are using; etc.)

 

 

I don't know where in Texas you are, but at random, I looked at the Austin Community College requirements for a Child Development Certificate (33 units), and then for the Child Development AAS degree (70 units). There are several courses required for the AAS that would definitely overlap and work very well as dual enrollment:

 

- English Composition or Technical Business Writing (great requirement for high school graduation)

- a Math or a Science course (great requirement for high school graduation)

- PSYCH2301 = Intro to Psychology (great Social Studies requirement in place of World History)

- a Humanities or Fine Arts course (great Social Studies or Fine Arts for high school graduation)

- a public speaking course (another great requirement for high school graduation)

- Intro to Computing (great requirement for high school graduation)

 

Right there, that would count as 6 of the 12.5 credits DIL needs for the high school diploma -- AND at the same time, it would be 18 of the 70 units needed for the AAS degree. And that would likely be just one year at the community college! Add 2 classes from the child development program as dual enrollment (call them electives in vocational education), and now DIL would be up to 8 of the 12.5 credits needed for high school graduation, and have simultaneously completed 1/3rd of the the AAS degree.

 

If DIL studies over the summer and CLEPs 4 classes, and does some sort of physical activity for 60 hours over the summer for a 0.5 credit of PE, she'll get that high school diploma in May 2014, AND, she'll be well on the way of getting the more marketable AAS degree in Child Development.

 

 

Realistically, DIL is going to have to put in some *serious* time and effort to achieve the goal of a diploma. As I see it, even the "testing out of" option is going to require quite a bit of study prep for CLEPing. Perhaps the two of you could sit down and figure out what she really wants for the future, how much she "needs" the diploma from the past, how much influence the sister and BIL have re: "you're too stupid to get a diploma", and how she wants to go about tackling making her future career and life goals happen.

 

- How important IS the high school diploma to her? How hard is she willing to work for it?

- How can you make getting the diploma as much as possible be about "double dipping", so it is preparing her for her future career goals simultaneously?

- Can you change the diploma requirements you currently have to make them more in line with DIL's child development occupational goals?

- How much will her sister and bIL make her feel bad if she doesn't finish the diploma? Or instead gets the GED?

- Is it possible to get sister and BIL to be encouragers/cheerleaders rather than people who say "I told you so" or try to tear down your DIL?

- Would it be better to be working NOW for the future, rather than looking back and trying to do something from the past? (i.e. -- work with her on getting the GED and moving ahead more aggressively with vocational education, rather than regretting over not getting a high school diploma and spending time getting it)

- Do consider Melissa B's points in her post above; she makes some very valid points to help think through what is best for planning for the FUTURE.

- Compare the worth (financial, emotional, employability, etc.) of a GED and a CC 2-year degree vs. a high school diploma and 1-year CC certificate.

 

 

I strongly encourage you to help DIL look at job options in the child development field -- compare job opportunities, hire-ability, salaries and benefits between just the certificate and the AAS in child development. And discuss how it is MUCH easier to get the 2-year degree the younger you are, rather than stopping at just the 1-year certificate and then later trying to go back and get that second year finished -- and often, requirements have changed, meaning you have to go MORE than a year to complete the requirements... And compare those options with stopping at just getting a high school diploma or a GED.

 

BEST of luck as you work through these tough decisions, and esp. to this wonderful young lady who wants to excel! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Arcadia]

I strongly encourage you to help DIL look at job options in the child development field -- compare job opportunities, hire-ability, salaries and benefits between just the certificate and the AAS in child development. And discuss how it is MUCH easier to get the 2-year degree the younger you are, rather than stopping at just the 1-year certificate and then later trying to go back and get that second year finished -- and often, requirements have changed, meaning you have to go MORE than a year to complete the requirements... And compare those options with stopping at just getting a high school diploma or a GED.

 

:iagree:

An AAS in child development is a very marketable qualification. It is easier to get the practicum done now than later.

[SkateLeft]

I agree with the comments that have been made about the COMPASS test. It's a college readiness test. Testing out of remedial math classes on the COMPASS would mean that your DIL already knows high school math. Unfortunately, there is no shortcut to a high school diploma if you don't know the material. You really can't "test out" of high school if you haven't learned the material.

 

If she doesn't want to get a GED, you might see if your local district offers an adult ed high school program. She could earn a high school diploma in a program geared towards adult learners that accomodates their work schedules. Alternatively, perhaps something like American School would work well for her and let her complete her diploma quickly.

[bobbeym]

I understand that she can't test on something she doesn't know. We're going on the assumption that she does know the material, she just needs a light refresher rather than retaking all that math. She had a full credit for Alg 1 and 0.5 credit for Geometry in CA plus an incomplete in Geometry in NV, both due to absenteeism. I would much rather she focus on finding a way to prove she knows the material than retake the class a 3rd time. That's why we though going ahead and having her take the COMPASS would probably work for math. If I could find an easy way to actually test her out of Geometry I would, but I haven't found anything that doesn't require she practically retake the class in order to remember how to do the problems.

 

Our CC requires all incoming students to take the COMPASS regardless of what courses they're taking. Even the public high schoolers have to take and pass the COMPASS and apply to the CC before they can be enrolled in a DE course. DE courses aren't free for homeshoolers (or adults over 18) and she'd have to pay the normal $50/credit hr tuition, so if she's going to have to take it regardless of what she does, she figures she might as well focus on it now and use it to document that she does know how to do the math even if she doesn't have credits to show for it at this moment in time.

 

CLEPs are not off the table; they're encouraged by me and being considered by her. She could certainly refresh her math knowledge by studying for a math CLEP just as easily as she could the COMPASS. Right now though, she doesn't see the point in taking a math CLEP if she's not going to be needing a math course credit in the future. She's the kind of person that will worry about it later if it happens and I haven't yet convinced her it's okay to prepare now in case she changes her mind later.

 

The only program she's expressed interest in taking at the CC "requires 42 credit hours in Child Development/Early Childhood Education courses (14 courses) and not academic courses." The only thing related to academics in any way is a course called "Math and Science for Early Childhood" which is described as "an exploration of principles, methods, and materials for teaching young children math and science concepts and process skills through discovery and play."

 

- How important IS the high school diploma to her? How hard is she willing to work for it? It's very important to her and she's more than willing to work for it. She just really really doesn't want to retake math credits she's already taken but we haven't found a good way to test out of them in order to have some type of documented proof. We called this year her sophomore year (based on her 7.5 credits), so keeping her on the current 4-year plan has her graduating at 21yo in June 2015 with 23-26 credits depending on how many electives she takes.

 

- How can you make getting the diploma as much as possible be about "double dipping", so it is preparing her for her future career goals simultaneously? We're already doing this as much as possible. She's pretty easy going in that she'll take whatever classes I tell her she needs to take and use whatever curriculum I provide for it. I've given her career prep credits b/c she works more than she schools and has learned so much more about the real world and how to get/keep a job plus safety issues, legal issues, etc. within the working world just through experience than I could possibly have taught her. I've given her an elective credit in floral design b/c she works in the floral dept and that's what she does all week long. She's already taking (or is scheduled to take) electives in Child Dev, Home Management, Nutrition & Wellness, and Consumer Math.

 

- Can you change the diploma requirements you currently have to make them more in line with DIL's child development occupational goals? I'm trying as much as I can. Even if I guide her towards the AAS degree without her realizing it, my options are still fairly limited since there aren't many academic classes required. The only ones she'd have to take are:

• Composition I - CLEP not accepted by CC
  
• Humanities or Fine Arts - CLEP accepted for Western Civ I or II, or Eng Lit
  
• College Algebra - CLEP accepted
  
• Behavioral or Social Sciences - CLEP accepted for Western Civ I or II, US History I or II
  

I took the history, science, and english credits she had and started her at the next level. Certainly she can CLEP all those if she wants. At 19 though, I can't force her to take a CLEP test the way I can my 15yo.

 

- How much will her sister and bIL make her feel bad if she doesn't finish the diploma? Or instead gets the GED? Sadly, they will never let her live it down. Even if she got her GED and then went on to get an AAS in college, they wouldn't care. They would focus on how she couldn't even get something as easy as a high school diploma and had to get her GED instead. DD is the youngest of 6 with big sister running the family. What Sis thinks goes for everyone, and the brothers (and mom) don't hesitate to tell DD that. We joke about her being the only sane one, but it's really not that far from the truth.

 

- Is it possible to get sister and BIL to be encouragers/cheerleaders rather than people who say "I told you so" or try to tear down your DIL? Nope. These are not nice people and she already has a shakey relationship with them b/c she had the nerve to get married when they told her she shouldn't. DH and I get a lot of carp from these people just b/c we allowed her to move in with us. According to them, she's a "pathological liar b/c there's no way we'd have let her move in otherwise" but yet "we have no say in arguments affecting Sis, DD, and DS19 b/c DD isn't of our blood". :cursing: Believe me, the *first* thing my DH said after the kids' wedding was that she is HIS daughter now and he would be intervening next time they pull their carp. DH tends to react first and think later though, so we'd all prefer he not get involved.

 

- Would it be better to be working NOW for the future, rather than looking back and trying to do something from the past? (i.e. -- work with her on getting the GED and moving ahead more aggressively with vocational education, rather than regretting over not getting a high school diploma and spending time getting it) I don't think there is anything we can say or do to convince her to get a GED.

 

- Do consider Melissa B's points in her post above; she makes some very valid points to help think through what is best for planning for the FUTURE. I'm considering all the advice that has been given. I'm very thankful for everyone that has chimed in. I know my posts don't clearly reflect my thoughts and I appreciate the patience shown.

 

- Compare the worth (financial, emotional, employability, etc.) of a GED and a CC 2-year degree vs. a high school diploma and 1-year CC certificate. To her, it's not much difference. She'd probably consider the extra year of $$ a waste. Her life goal is to be wife and mother, and maybe babysit a few kids at home to make a little extra pocket money. She doesn't even really need a Child Dev cert for that, but has considered getting it anyway. DS19 has always been supportive of her goal, so he's not going to be much help in trying to convince her to do something she doesn't want to do. He can't even figure out what he wants to do right now.

[Arcadia]

She'd probably consider the extra year of $$ a waste. Her life goal is to be wife and mother, and maybe babysit a few kids at home to make a little extra pocket money. She doesn't even really need a Child Dev cert for that, but has considered getting it anyway.

 

I have SAHM friends who went to study for an AA in child developement and got a decent paying job and have their own kids attend the daycare where they work for free. The extra year and money spend on the AA can be easily recoup back.

While she may not need a cert, babysitting fees does go up with certs. There are people willing to pay more. If she wants to apply for a home daycare license next time, having an AA would be easier.

The Return On Investment is really higher with an AA than a certificate. It is worth spending that extra year and money for a more solid backup plan if she ever needs to help bring home the dough.

[bobbeym]

Another random idea--a NARHS diploma.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't heard of them but will look into it.

 

The Return On Investment is really higher with an AA than a certificate. It is worth spending that extra year and money for a more solid backup plan if she ever needs to help bring home the dough.

 

Oh I do understand that. I have an AAS for a degree that isn't even my current career path and it still means I make more than a non-degreed counterpart. It's convincing the kid that Mom (or MIL in this case) knows best.

[Mouseketeer67]

This is just a thought...please don't flame me! What about having her study for the GED, when she is able get a passing score on the GED practice tests....issue her a homeschool diploma. Honestly, my oldest kids never had any outside grade verification except ACT scores.. They are both in college. My son just finished his sophmore year and has a 4.0 GPA. My daughter just finished her freshman year and has a 3.6 GPA.

[Lori D.]

:grouphug: Bobbey :grouphug:

 

What a difficult situation!

 

And ouch! What horrible family the sister and BIL are! So sad that they still exert so much influence over your DIL. That definitely makes this whole situation much harder to help DIL really make the best choices for now and the future. And, the likelihood is that even if she does get a diploma rather than a GED or AAS or anything else, they will just switch to some other topic they can use to question her abilities and tear her down. :sad:

 

Hopefully, earning the high school diploma (along with DIL growing up and maturing in the next few years and your family's encouraging influence), will allow DIL to emotionally/mentally "move on" so that the negative and destructive comments from her sister and BIL will have less and less importance and impact on DIL, and she can more and more learn how to set healthy boundaries with them.

 

Since a GED is not an option for DIL, then hopefully, some of the suggestions in this thread will open up some new avenues to explore to make your job of educational counselor easier, and make graduating with a high school diploma a reality for DIL. :)

 

Warmest regards, Lori D.

[EKS]

Another random idea--a NARHS diploma. They've gone through a lot of changes in the last year, but I think they still have it available. In ME, only 17.5 credits are required. They will allow the student to test out of things, such as taking the Alg I tests from AOP workbooks. They will give credit for all sorts of off-the-wall things, so it's possible that she could get some Child Pysch credits for her nannying. NARHS drove me nuts because they couldn't deal with an accelerated and advanced kid, but they might fit the bill this time.

 

 

:iagree:

[AmyontheFarm]

What about ALEK for her math? There are free trials floating around and both of you could at least see where she is math wise and go from there.

[bobbeym]

This is just a thought...please don't flame me! What about having her study for the GED, when she is able get a passing score on the GED practice tests....issue her a homeschool diploma. Honestly, my oldest kids never had any outside grade verification except ACT scores.. They are both in college. My son just finished his sophmore year and has a 4.0 GPA. My daughter just finished her freshman year and has a 3.6 GPA.

 

I've thought about that, but it would still be an issue of how to document a transcript, since our CC will require either a high school transcript or a GED certificate as part of the admissions process should she go.

 

I don't mind taking logical shortcuts b/c of her situation, but I'm also not trying to give her credit she didn't actually earn through some source or another or that one of us couldn't defend.

 

*edited to clarify that last thought*

[bobbeym]

:grouphug: Bobbey :grouphug:

 

What a difficult situation!

 

And ouch! What horrible family the sister and BIL are! So sad that they still exert so much influence over your DIL. That definitely makes this whole situation much harder to help DIL really make the best choices for now and the future. And, the likelihood is that even if she does get a diploma rather than a GED or AAS or anything else, they will just switch to some other topic they can use to question her abilities and tear her down. :sad:

 

Hopefully, earning the high school diploma (along with DIL growing up and maturing in the next few years and your family's encouraging influence), will allow DIL to emotionally/mentally "move on" so that the negative and destructive comments from her sister and BIL will have less and less importance and impact on DIL, and she can more and more learn how to set healthy boundaries with them.

 

Since a GED is not an option for DIL, then hopefully, some of the suggestions in this thread will open up some new avenues to explore to make your job of educational counselor easier, and make graduating with a high school diploma a reality for DIL. :)

 

Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Thanks Lori. My own MIL is much like DD's sister, and after years of struggling to maintain some form of semi-healthy relationship he made the tough decision to cut ties with her completely. It's very hard for us to watch DD go through this, knowing there really isn't much we can do other than to continue being supportive of her. DD has already stated that she knows she'll probably have to do this at some point, because you're right. Sis will always have something negative to say and can carry on a grudge for half of forever it seems. She still complains about DD missing a family Christmas dinner last year even though it was Sis that changed the plans at the last minute.

 

The older siblings are being nice at the moment, but their dad just passed on 6/9. Even that day, Sis remarked in shock that DD left work early and showed up at the hospital still in uniform hoping to see dad once more before he passed. I was all WTH? The man had just flatlined twice within 30 minutes and they think she's going to go home and change clothes first? :huh: DD commented to me her shock at how respectful and including they had been to her, but also said she feels it's just a calm before another storm.

 

What about ALEK for her math? There are free trials floating around and both of you could at least see where she is math wise and go from there.

 

I know we looked at ALEK before and ruled it out for some reason I don't remember. I'll have to look again though.

[Julie in MN]

I can understand not wanting a GED. My dh had a GED and he would not recommend it to anyone, as he always felt embarrassed by it, both career-wise and socially. I, myself, think it's harder to get than some diplomas, but easy for me to say...

 

You can decide the requirements for your diploma, and it needn't be a complete college-prep line-up. She can do some of those courses later in cc or something.

 

I would start by carefully going over what she's done already. For instance, if she's done 1.5 years of math, you can give her credit for it even if they didn't and even if she doesn't remember it. Plenty of folks don't remember things they got credit for. You might decide to call it "pre-algebra" or you might add a refresher like Key to Algebra or give her credit for watching Kahn videos or whatever you decide to round out the credits. Giving credit is a separate issue from mastering the material, IMHO. Both are good issues to look at, but one doesn't have to cancel out the other.

 

Once you know what credits she already has, in your school, you can decide the minimum requirements for graduating her from your school. Not all high schools require 4 years of anything. The most common 4-year requirement is English, but that ranges in quality and subject matter. My oldest son is an engineer but his high school English was pretty lame, about 2 books per year along the lines of Tuesdays With Morrie, and he said he studied too/two/to every year. My youngest son has friends with "alternative school" diplomas where they worked on cars. You CAN give her credit for a less-than-WTM-level runthrough. Maybe parts of LLATL and a book she wants to read? Maybe the tests won't be a "test out" situation, but part of a list of writing components or something.

 

If she wants to go to college, she does have to think about skills she needs, especially math and reading, and understand that learning is different than achieving credits. If she wants to be part of academia, or the educated adult world, she can always join in late like some of us have :) But meanwhile, she can earn a diploma from your school.

 

Julie

[AngieW in Texas]

I think you should consider using something like NARHS or American School just because these options will give her a diploma that her family will be more likely to accept and you have indicated that is a big consideration.

 

http://www.narhs.org/faq-view

https://www.americanschoolofcorr.com/faq

 

American School only requires 18 credits. She has 7.5 credits already completed (don't know if they will count all of those). She can complete the remaining credits at her own pace, which means that she can accelerate the pace if she is able to.

 

I actually think American School is probably your best bet.

[Mouseketeer67]

 

I've thought about that, but it would still be an issue of how to document a transcript, since our CC will require either a high school transcript or a GED certificate as part of the admissions process should she go.

 

I don't mind taking logical shortcuts b/c of her situation, but I'm not going to provide anyone with a fake transcript either.

 

 

I was not suggesting that you give her a fake transcript.

[Mouseketeer67]

This is a link to high school exit exams listed by state. https://sites.google.com/site/highschoolexits/home/examsbystate

[bobbeym]

I was not suggesting that you give her a fake transcript.

 

 

I'm sorry, Mouseketeer. I didn't mean to imply I thought you were saying that.

 

I meant it in a general way, because I didn't want anyone to think that I'm trying to give her credit without her doing the work. I just want to streamline the work she does have to do where I can.

 

I loathed geometry the first time through. I can't even imaging having to take it 3 times.

 

:gnorsi: Off to edit her earlier post...

[Lori D.]

I loathed geometry the first time through. I can't even imaging having to take it 3 times.

 

 

Bobbey, just a quick question... Why keep doing Geometry?? Couldn't DIL accomplish the math with a progression that is different and unique tailored to her, to make it a more personally helpful progression? Example:

 

MATHEMATICS

Algebra 1 . . . . . . . . . . . .1.0 credit (already accomplished)

Geometry . . . . . . . . . . . .0.5 credit (already accomplished)

Topics in Math . . . . . . . . . . 0.5 credit (credit for time spent studying for CLEP or COMPASS test)

Consumer Math/Personal Finance . . 1.0 credit (a math that would REALLY help a young marriage!)

College Mathematics . . . . . . . 1.0 credit (through CLEP or at the CC; whatever CC math that works towards an AAS or certificate)

Total Credits . . . . . . . . . . 4.0

[katilac]

If she doesn't want the GED, then she is going to have to invest a certain amount of time in earning her diploma - not 3 years, but at least one (with summer session) and probably closer to two. Like others, I don't see testing out as much of a time saver, and anyway . . . there seems to be little point in refusing the GED while still 'testing out of high school.'

 

I think that Lori D. may be on to something with her math progression; however, I don't see why she would attempt college math rather than Algebra 2 - college math is harder than Algebra 2, so why go that way? Check state requirements and see if consumer math, etc, are enough. Also check number of credits; this varies a LOT.

 

You could add some reading and assignments to give her an elective credit for child care.

 

Walch Education publishes a high school series called Power Basics that might work well for her. It is just that, the basics in each subject. It's designed for low level readers, so if she reads on level, she can move even more quickly:

http://walch.com/power-basics-text-books/

 

Still, it's going to take her a certain amount of time. I hope that she figures it out, and that she decides to do it for herself, and not to impress people who are not going to be impressed no matter what.

[bobbeym]

Bobbey, just a quick question... Why keep doing Geometry?? Couldn't DIL accomplish the math with a progression that is different and unique tailored to her, to make it a more personally helpful progression? Example:

 

MATHEMATICS

Algebra 1 . . . . . . . . . . . .1.0 credit (already accomplished)

Geometry . . . . . . . . . . . .0.5 credit (already accomplished)

Topics in Math . . . . . . . . . . 0.5 credit (credit for time spent studying for CLEP or COMPASS test)

Consumer Math/Personal Finance . . 1.0 credit (a math that would REALLY help a young marriage!)

College Mathematics . . . . . . . 1.0 credit (through CLEP or at the CC; whatever CC math that works towards an AAS or certificate)

Total Credits . . . . . . . . . . 4.0

 

 

Lori, thank you. This is exactly the type of thing that I was looking for. I don't want to keep making her repeat something she's already taken but I couldn't figure out how to just move on from it either.

 

If she doesn't want the GED, then she is going to have to invest a certain amount of time in earning her diploma - not 3 years, but at least one (with summer session) and probably closer to two. Like others, I don't see testing out as much of a time saver, and anyway . . . there seems to be little point in refusing the GED while still 'testing out of high school.'

 

I think that Lori D. may be on to something with her math progression; however, I don't see why she would attempt college math rather than Algebra 2 - college math is harder than Algebra 2, so why go that way? Check state requirements and see if consumer math, etc, are enough. Also check number of credits; this varies a LOT. Texas doesn't give state requirements for homeschool grads - only that we must teach math, spelling, reading, writing, and good citizenship. How we do it is completely to up to us. The only factor we have to consider is what she would need for college, but she doesn't even know if she's going to go, thus my dilemma.

 

You could add some reading and assignments to give her an elective credit for child care. She's wrapping up a 1/2 credit child development course this summer. Both her activity assignments are complete, she just need to finish her research paper. I'd like to give her credit for her year as a nanny but I haven't figured out what to call it.

 

Walch Education publishes a high school series called Power Basics that might work well for her. It is just that, the basics in each subject. It's designed for low level readers, so if she reads on level, she can move even more quickly:

http://walch.com/pow...ics-text-books/ She's a natural reader/writer so she'd move this very quickly I think. Would it be enough for a full math credit?

 

Still, it's going to take her a certain amount of time. I hope that she figures it out, and that she decides to do it for herself, and not to impress people who are not going to be impressed no matter what.

 

 

I agree it's going to take some time and she does know this. She still has 2 full credits of english and science, and 1.5 of history to complete and none of those are courses you can just rush through. We just want to streamline where we can. Working 30-35 hours a week plus schooling another 20-25 hours doesn't leave her much time to hang out with her friends and have fun, and it's important to me she gets time to be the kid she still is.

 

Thank you everyone, again, for your wisdom and suggestions. I think I'll share all of this compiled information with her the next time we can sit down together for a chat and see how she wants to proceed.

[jhschool]

OK, let's forget the GED.

 

Your only choice is to have your child

learn the material.

If this means retaking the classes, so be it.

 

Learning mathematics is not a waste of time, even if you are going

to be a SAHM.

 

Math isn't that hard, even if she wants to go into child development.

Get something like Teaching Textbooks or Math U See.

[klmama]

OP, you mentioned wanting to give her credit for her year as a nanny. Some high schools give credit for work under "occupational education."

[bobbeym]

OP, you mentioned wanting to give her credit for her year as a nanny. Some high schools give credit for work under "occupational education."

 

I like that, and it will tie well her credits for "career preparation". Thanks.