Is Apologia Science rigorous enough for High School College Prep?

[Sherri in MI]

Just when I thought I had at least one subject all decided! I had planned to use Apologia all through High School, starting with Biology in 9th. (We used General Science in 7th & liked it, but I didn't get to use Physical Science this year). However, recently I attended a workshop on a different topic, but the speaker said she didn't think Apologia was rigorous enough. She didn't say why, just kind of threw that in there.

 

I do not know enough about science to make that determination myself. Taking Biology for instance, which I planned to used for 9th grade, it looks comparable to other Biology texts and I like that it has a Christian worldview. it was written by a college science professor for crying out loud! How can it not be rigorous enough?

 

Any thoughts?

[cbollin]

I've been fine with using it. Now granted, my daughter is only in 12th grade and hasn't been to college yet. and just because my dh has a phd in chemistry and has been happy with the choice doesn't mean anything.

 

Around here where I live, the complaints against Apologia are that they want a different kind of experiment. But I don't recall high school being about new research, or other.

and with Biology around here they seem to have this need that it should have a unit or two on intro anatomy. I solved that by covering intro anatomy in our Health credit. Apologia devotes an entire year to the subject if a student wants more.

 

I haven't tried to get early college credit in science yet. so you can filter my post, I do not think the college prep has to mean early college credit. If you are using apologia and want to consider credit by exam route, check into the DIVE prep for that. They use apologia as a suggested text for bio and chem.

I've been fine with apologia. my child can follow a syllabus (that's college prep according to college people who talk at workshops), my child can set up, do the experience, clean it up, write a real lab report. ... on her own. I'm not doing SAT subject tests because her top choices where she will apply do not do anything those tests. And she'd have to get a 5 on AP to get credit for freshman college science because she plans to major in sciences. College she is looking at want science majors to take "science major courses" in freshman year.

 

I guess it's all in the eye of the reviewer. some people strongly prefer college texts during high school. and that's not really what apologia is. It's high school, strong, in high school.

 

I know on this forum rigor gets defined differently. So if the workshop speaker didn't really say why she reached her conclusion, it's hard to know what she thinks. For biology, the only thing you'll have to decide if about the anatomy. Apologia biology 1 doesn't cover it. It was covered in General and covered again in Advanced. So, if you pick a health credit out there... you'll probably cover basic intro info in that course. and it's not a big deal, although locally,you'd think it was from listening to those who run co-ops and paid classes.

 

sorry for typos.....

[Ann.without.an.e]

My opinion is that you will get many varied opinions on this :) It is a tad controversial. Keep in mind, some simply dislike it because of its Christian worldview.

 

This is my understanding....

What are your goals? Apologia is fine for a standard High school text. From what I understand, it would not be considered Honors. In order to call it college prep or Honors you would need to complete both the Biology and the Adv Biology (one per semester).

It can't be used for AP because it is not a college text. A good percent on WTM choose a college text so when they say it isn't rigorous, they mean it isn't a college level text. A college text is not going to have a Christian worldview though.

 

I think that it would be wise to complete the Apologia as a High School text and then choose one science to complete an AP course in later.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I also want to add, I do believe that BJU Science is a bit stronger than Apologia and they both have a Christian worldview. Having used both, BJU can be a complete pain to implement at home sometimes because it was created for a classroom with a lab. I love that Apologia makes the labs easier to complete in a home environment.

[cbollin]

Charleigh mentioned about doing Bio and ADV bio together.... for help on that, here's something to look into (with choice of BJU, Abeka, or Apologia texts)

http://www.diveintomath.com/biology-10th-grade/

 

and agreeing that we're able to get labs completed at home in our reality... and like the style with the worldview (mileage will vary)

[dkholland]

I will throw our experience out there. My DS took Apologia chem at a co-op taught by a community college prof. He wanted to take the SAT II chem test as an outside verification of our transcript. He complained while studying that the apologia text did not have the same information that the Barrons study guide did. He said the text and class did nothing to help him prepare for the test. He did not do well enough for us to even use the score. He had all A's in the class and found it extremely easy. I kind of have the opinion that Apologia did cover some of the test material but in writing to the student they use different or easier terminology.

 

If you want to just check a block that chem is done, it is a fine text. If you plan to do AP ot sat subject tests, I would look for an additional text.

[Amominfl]

A local friend of mine used Apologia Biology for her DD and she did well with it. Her DD then went to a small liberal arts college and is majoring in Biology. Her daughter struggled to make a C in her first semester Bio class. Because of this, I questioned the rigor and have decided to use BJU for my son (especially since he wants to also be a Bio major). If your DS isn't planning on a Biology/Chemistry major, then Apologia is probably sufficient; otherwise, I would look for other options.

[Ann.without.an.e]

If I could do it all over again with my dd, I would probably do something like this....

6th grade - Apologia General

7th - Physical

8th - Apologia Bio

9th - Apologia Chem.

10th - AP Bio

11th - AP Chem.

12th - Physics

 

Now, too bad I can't go back :)

[retiredHSmom]

a lot is going to depend on your student and on what you want. Apologia is high school science, not college science. Do not expect to pass the AP exam after taking it.

 

My oldest daughter used Apologia as written at home for Biology, Chemistry and Physics. She went to college and took Chemistry and got an A and Physics and got a A. She felt well prepared.

[snowbeltmom]

I will throw our experience out there. My DS took Apologia chem at a co-op taught by a community college prof. He wanted to take the SAT II chem test as an outside verification of our transcript. He complained while studying that the apologia text did not have the same information that the Barrons study guide did. He said the text and class did nothing to help him prepare for the test. He did not do well enough for us to even use the score. He had all A's in the class and found it extremely easy. I kind of have the opinion that Apologia did cover some of the test material but in writing to the student they use different or easier terminology.

 

If you want to just check a block that chem is done, it is a fine text. If you plan to do AP ot sat subject tests, I would look for an additional text.

 

 

:iagree:

 

My friend's son took the SAT II exam after getting a high A in his public high school chemistry class. (The class did not use Apologia, but another high school level textbook.) He scored in the bottom 3% on the subject test.

 

The vast majority of students take the Chemistry SAT II after taking AP Chemistry. Imo, it would be very difficult to obtain a high score on the SAT II using a high school level chemistry textbook.

[FaithManor]

Two successfully take the SAT II's, one needs to use a text geared towards the test. Just like the AP's, the information is covered in a certain order, in a certain way, and with a specific presentation/question-answer style. A few kids can manage SATs and APs without approved texts or course syllabi, collegeboard resources, etc., but many do not make the logical leaps necessary. DD did it. She did both Apologia chem texts in one year, grabbed my old college chem text, and an AP prep book, self prepped, and announced on a whim that she was going to attempt the AP exam. She got a 5. Do I credit Apologia for that? No, but I don't discount the curriculum either. I credit DD. That's the deal. This kid seriously retains HUGE amounts of information without angst, makes logical leaps in breezy fashion, self prepares without difficulty. If there was something covered in the prep book that she thought she was weak on, she took the initiative to look it up online, find a resource, read a periodical article on the subject, whatever. I had NO hand in this other than to grade work and have interesting discussions with her or mentor her rather grand science projects. I cannot recommend this course of action for everyone, absolutely.not. KNOW thy student! Chemistry was a passion for her, and like any passion a kid has, they will find information from a variety of sources and retain it and all of that aids in accessing a body of knowledge needed to survive a difficult exam. For a kid who has limited interest in the subject material, it's going to be tougher to maintain and far more difficult to do the problem solving without a text that teaches directly to the test.

 

For what it's worth, after years of tutoring in the sciences, teaching higher level science through our 4-H STEM club, teaching chemistry in a private school, and buddying up with two very dear friends - one of whom teaches both standard physics as well as AP physics and AP calc in high school and the other has taught life science, physical science, and biology in high school, this is my conclusion:

 

Apologia is the equivalent of standard college prep for non-science bound students back when I was in high school. It covers that and it covers it well. It suffices for non-Stem bound students for general study. It's not rigorous, nor is it lacking as a basic body of knowledge either. Especially in combo with the first text and the second, advanced text, it's pretty good. It does not teach to the test at all. It teaches to specifically remediate basic knowledge that Dr. Wile noticed time and time again was lacking in his college freshman attempting to take his college chem courses at Ball State where he was a professor. He didn't care a lick about fancy labs, indepth labs, or the memorization of copious amounts of vocabulary as he did about understanding and mastering basic concepts. It's a unique writing style and it appeals to some students. Others flounder with it. Many students have done well, even STEM bound ones like my dd or Creekland's son. Many haven't. Know they student.

 

Beyond that, I have some concerns for the future in terms of recommending the curriculum. Science is moving at a very rapid pace. Science texts need to be updated frequently to reflect new discoveries, new understanding, new insights. Dr. Wile sold Apologia to another publishing company, while retaining rights to not allow the orginial material to be altered without his permission. Unfortunately, the new company does not think Dr. Wile is conservative enough for them. They have no intention, at the present time, of including him on any editorial committee for updates and new editions. They cannot update many areas of the books without his permission. I've communicated with Dr. Wile, and I don't see good things on the horizon for this curriculum. This is wearisome. If you intend on using it with younger students; it's going to become outdated.

 

That said, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if your favorite curriculum is BJU or ABEKA or Alpha Omega or whatever, these texts or workbooks, regardless of what you personally believe about the rigor, will not adequately prepare most students for the SAT II's and certainly not the AP's and while some may say, "it's not rigorous", or "it's missing this or that", the reality is that none of these curricula are designed to prep the students for that manner of test. The collegeboard retains control over scope, sequence, content, presentation, writing rubrics, etc. At the very least, a student who takes these exams and does not use an approved text, should spend time with three different prep books. Start easy with Kaplan, work up to Princeton Review, and end with Barrons. Barrons NOTORIOUSLY over preps and makes kids brains twitch. For the most part, a 3 on a Barrons AP practice exam is a 4 on the actual test providing illness, test taking nerves, or other extenuating circumstance do not cause an issue. There are a lot of good texts out there, however they aren't meant to prepare for these exams and it has little to do with perceived rigor or lack thereof.

 

Ultimately, what is the goal. Different texts meet different goals. Is your student non-STEM bound, headed to colleges and uni's in which his/her preparation is just for a GEN ED bio class or a GEN ED earth science course or whatever? If so, non-honors, well written texts are probably fine. Is the student looking at competitive admissions? Well, then, you may need to re-evaluate and use something you can legitimately call Honors. Is the student required to take a SAT II science exam to prove proficiency? Then find out what the PS's or private schools in your area are using to teach to those exams. Is your student going to need an AP or two or five for competitive admissions, college credit, or scholarships? Then you need to use a collegeboard approved text, download the syllabi, follow that, get some prep books, and buckle down. Is this just a check-the box course in order to jump a specific hoop, but the student is headed for a trade school, chef school, family business, etc. and the time would be much better spent doing something more rigorous to prepare for these paths than pursuing biochem and quantum mechanics? Then probably one doesn't need to be particularly picky or worry a lot about rigor so long as the course is worthy of high school credit.

 

Figure out what your goal is and then look for texts that will help you meet it.

 

That said, I have very grave concerns about Apologia now that Dr. Wile is completely out of the picture, and given how STEM driven so many jobs have become, and the added quirks and requirements of college admissions especially with merit money on the line, I am inclined now towards mostly AP texts even though 9 years ago when dd was a young high school freshman, Apologia bio and advanced bio, followed by chem and advanced chem in the next year, did the job peachy well for us!

 

Now, I do have some curriculum that I do believe under NO circumstances is high school level or at least not worthy of a full credit and seriously lacking in scope and sequence. I refuse to list them here because it's a HOT BUTTON issue when one questions the content of a curriculum with any specific examples of the problems at hand. However, maybe, just maybe, I'd be willing to speak up in a PM so it doesn't grow into some monstrous thread of vitriol!

 

Ducking out so the tomatoes can fly! :D

 

Faith

[Sherri in MI]

I also want to add, I do believe that BJU Science is a bit stronger than Apologia and they both have a Christian worldview. Having used both, BJU can be a complete pain to implement at home sometimes because it was created for a classroom with a lab. I love that Apologia makes the labs easier to complete in a home environment.

 

That was my assessment of BJU. It looks good, but it didn't look very homeschool friendly.

[Sherri in MI]

I can see high school is going to give me a headache.

 

Thank you for you input, everyone. It never occurred to me to have him take the AP exam for any sciences. My son is somewhat gifted. He qualified through NUMATS to take the ACT early. He just took it last Saturday. We expect him to do very well on the English & Reading sections. Not so much Math & Science since he is still doing Algebra 1.

 

He does well overall in all his subjects, but he's an excellent reader and prefers creative writing, literature, history & biology . He wants to be a veterinarian, so a Biology major as an undergrad is a possibility, though after doing some research it is not necessary to be a science major to get into vet school.

 

So now I'm confused. We do want him to get into a good college & we need him to get scholarships. He is very smart, but he is not highly self-motivated when it comes to academics & he works slowly.

 

My original plan was this:

 

9th- Apologia Biology

10th - Apologia Chemistry

11th - Apologia Physics

12th - Advanced Biology, either through Apologia or a local college or online course.

 

Do I have to rethink everything now? Finances are a huge issue (we have very little money for high school books & expenses) & I am not very science oriented.

[FloridaLisa]

Just when I thought I had at least one subject all decided! I had planned to use Apologia all through High School, starting with Biology in 9th. (We used General Science in 7th & liked it, but I didn't get to use Physical Science this year). However, recently I attended a workshop on a different topic, but the speaker said she didn't think Apologia was rigorous enough. She didn't say why, just kind of threw that in there.

 

(emphasis added)

 

Rigorous enough for what? I detest overgeneralizations with absolutely no backing given. Maybe she has backing; maybe she overheard this; maybe this is her personal experience based on one child. She should have elaborated so YOU could determine how to value her opinion.

 

My opinion is that you will get many varied opinions on this :) It is a tad controversial. Keep in mind, some simply dislike it because of its Christian worldview.

 

This is my understanding....

What are your goals? Apologia is fine for a standard High school text. From what I understand, it would not be considered Honors. In order to call it college prep or Honors you would need to complete both the Biology and the Adv Biology (one per semester).

It can't be used for AP because it is not a college text. A good percent on WTM choose a college text so when they say it isn't rigorous, they mean it isn't a college level text. A college text is not going to have a Christian worldview though.

 

(emphasis added)

 

I agree that it's intended for high school level. I think calling it honors is regional perhaps? There are no hard and fast rules about what is honors and what isn't. FWIW, I took honors bio back in the day and we didn't cover anatomy & physiology (that was a separate course) nor did we do anywhere near the number of labs that Apologia requires. So, ymmv on whether to call it honors or not. And it's not intended to cover the AP level biology (which actually has a fair amount of chemistry in it) so would not be a good choice for that.

 

I will throw our experience out there. My DS took Apologia chem at a co-op taught by a community college prof. He wanted to take the SAT II chem test as an outside verification of our transcript. He complained while studying that the apologia text did not have the same information that the Barrons study guide did. He said the text and class did nothing to help him prepare for the test. He did not do well enough for us to even use the score. He had all A's in the class and found it extremely easy. I kind of have the opinion that Apologia did cover some of the test material but in writing to the student they use different or easier terminology.

 

If you want to just check a block that chem is done, it is a fine text. If you plan to do AP ot sat subject tests, I would look for an additional text.

 

 

Again, I don't think Apologia biology just checks a box. But I do agree that it is not intended to prepare the student for the AP or SAT II bio exams.

 

A local friend of mine used Apologia Biology for her DD and she did well with it. Her DD then went to a small liberal arts college and is majoring in Biology. Her daughter struggled to make a C in her first semester Bio class. Because of this, I questioned the rigor and have decided to use BJU for my son (especially since he wants to also be a Bio major). If your DS isn't planning on a Biology/Chemistry major, then Apologia is probably sufficient; otherwise, I would look for other options.

 

 

Just throwing our experience (so far) into the mix. My oldest two started with Apologia biology. Ds went on to take AP biology in 10th grade and made an A in the course and 4 on the exam. He chose not to take the AP credit at university and has done very well in all of his science courses so far (STEM major). Dd did not take AP biology but went straight into university-level biology and chemistry and made As.

 

Students can have a disconnect between high school and college/university grades not only because of light content but also underdeveloped study skills. There could be other factors as well for the low college grade.

 

If your ds is interested in veterinary school, I think it's fine to use Apologia as a high school level text. He could possibly follow with Apologia chemistry. After that, he could go on to take AP level sciences OR university level sciences in the latter two years. He could also double up on Apologia science next year, leaving 10th, 11th and 12th grades open for AP or university level science.

 

Lisa

[Musicmom]

I can see high school is going to give me a headache.

 

Thank you for you input, everyone. It never occurred to me to have him take the AP exam for any sciences. My son is somewhat gifted. He qualified through NUMATS to take the ACT early. He just took it last Saturday. We expect him to do very well on the English & Reading sections. Not so much Math & Science since he is still doing Algebra 1.

 

He does well overall in all his subjects, but he's an excellent reader and prefers creative writing, literature, history & biology . He wants to be a veterinarian, so a Biology major as an undergrad is a possibility, though after doing some research it is not necessary to be a science major to get into vet school.

 

So now I'm confused. We do want him to get into a good college & we need him to get scholarships. He is very smart, but he is not highly self-motivated when it comes to academics & he works slowly.

 

My original plan was this:

 

9th- Apologia Biology

10th - Apologia Chemistry

11th - Apologia Physics

12th - Advanced Biology, either through Apologia or a local college or online course.

 

Do I have to rethink everything now? Finances are a huge issue (we have very little money for high school books & expenses) & I am not very science oriented.

I think this is fine plan to start with. Both my dc did Apologia and I have no regrets. We found Apologia to be solid for high school level, and highly do-able for a student working mostly independenty. This is important, because often the best curriculum is the one that gets done!

 

Anyway, I would go ahead and start off with the Apologia Bio followed by Apologia Chem. If you find your ds is thriving and you sense his academic capacity is increasing a lot, you can bump up the challenge by doing both the regular & advanced Apologia texts in one year, perhaps for physics (or maybe chem--I just wouldn't recommend it for bio in 9th grade--the regular bio is plenty, and Apologia Adv Bio should really be called Human Anatomy & Physiology--it's in-depth, and very challenging. It's not what would be in an AP Bio course.)

 

After Chemistry in 10th, you could look again at your plan in light of your ds's college plans, his academic capacity (kids change and grow!) and your family situation/finances at that time. He could always continue with Physics as planned (maybe with the higher challenge of both texts), and Advanced something else senior year, or he could take an AP Bio or Chem class in 11th (which is good for getting an outside grade before college applications)and pick up physics in senior year. I wouldn't plan on Apologia's Adv Bio unless he's headed for a health field, though, for the reasons stated above.

 

If you feel it's necessary for your ds to take the SAT Subject tests, it can be done after Apologia Bio or Chem, but it requires setting aside about 6-8 weeks at the end of the year for him to go through and soak up 2-3 additional high school texts, plus work through at least 2 prep books. My ds did this and scored high, but it really takes a kid who's willing to work hard, who remembers large amounts of information and does well making connnections and identifying concepts expressed in different terminology than he's used to. This is really what's required no matter what text you choose--no high school text teaches to the SAT II test (it can't); rather, the test is constructed by drawing material from a variety of texts used nationwide (often picking that unusual piece of info in the little side bar on p. 254! ha ha) If you find you really wish to do this, feel free to pm me and I'll give you the list of texts my ds used.

 

If you do both of Apologia's Physics books, however, prep for the physics SAT Subject test is not nearly so hard--my ds pretty much just looked at one prep book, did one practice test and did fantastic. His tons of previous testing experience probably had a lot to do with it, but obviously the knowledge gained from Apologia was good.

 

All that said, you may not need SAT Subject tests--they're more for admission than scholarship consideration, and often the schools that require them are not the schools that give out much in merit scholarships.

 

For merit scholarships at the colleges which offer them, our experience has been that SAT and ACT scores are key (in addition to high GPA and solid college-prep transcript--and your science plan is solid--colleges want to see the big 3 in the sciences.) So I would encourage your ds to focus and work hard on prepping for the SAT/ACT (over the Subject tests, unless they're needed.) Also, aim for and work hard on prepping for the PSAT--there are universities that offer full tuition and sometimes full-ride scholarships to National Merit Finalists (which is not hard to achieve if you make the cutoff for semifinalist.) No college ever sees the PSAT score, so there is nothing to lose by taking it. Take it for practice in 10th, and for real in 11th. The testing experience alone is worth it.

 

Well, I didn't mean to write a book. I hope some of this helpful! Just wanted to encourage you that you don't have to rethink everything and that your plan will be flexible/workable if needed down the road.

[swellmomma]

We love Apologia BUT in order to meet the requirements for high school sciences here the kids have to do both the regular course and the advanced because the regular level does not cover everything that is expected of Alberta science students. Since my kids want their diplomas and the ability to write the provincial final exams, either we have to crunch 6 levels into 3 years or simply skip them and do the block scheduled courses with our province. So in that regard they are not rigorous enough. That said I think compared to many other products on the market they certainly are. So it all comes down to what your goals etc are.

[GailV]

Apologia Biology uses the term "poisonous" in lieu of "venomous" when describing a spider. This type of error drove my dd absolutely nuts, as did the tendency to use superlatives rather than comparatives when comparing 2 items. It really shook her faith in anything the text said. She entertained herself by circling errors in red; she got an A in the class, and considered it a waste of her time.

 

I realize those aren't earth shattering errors, but one does wonder about the lack of attention to detail.

 

A friend (mechanical engineer) had very specific issues with the scope and sequence of the chemistry text. However, I don't recall the exact issue. I have no plans to use any other Apologia science texts, so I let it go in one ear and out the other.

[Brigid in NC]

We really loved Apologia at our house. My two guys liked the way that Jay Wile explained things, and they felt well prepared for the next level (CC classes). We used Apologia for General Science through Physics, and then my ds's took chem and physics CC classes in 11th and 12th. We found that weekly co-op lab classes and paid lab classes (with instructors who were science-saavy --> not me! :scared:) really improved the labs and lab report-writing experience.

 

My older ds took the Chem SAT 2 after Apologia Chemistry, and it was not preparation enough, as others have pointed out. (If you are considering taking an SAT 2, be sure to have your student take and score a practice test early, and then be sure to look at the SAT 2 percentiles--the curves are brutal.) He re-took it after another year of Chem, and that made a tremendous difference. That did not diminish our regard for Apologia, though. Good luck with your choices everyone! Apologia was a good homeschool-friendly fit for this non-science-mom who somehow raised two scientists. Whew!

[creekland]

My guys used Apologia for their intro science courses. For oldest (non-STEM), this was all he needed and he felt well prepared for college. He did Bio, Chem, Marine Bio, and Physics (all first books only).

 

For middle (definitely STEM), he not only did the intro (first books), he also did the Advanced books. In Bio we considered that Anatomy & Physiology rather than Advanced Bio and he reported back that the book did a great job of preparing him for part of his college Bio and his college Brain & Cognitive science class. He felt more prepared for it than his peers (that particular part dealing with anatomy). For Advance Bio we chose to use Campbell's Bio book that many AP classes use. It was well worth doing things that way as the combo (of the three) prepared him very well. Apologia's first book deals with taxonomy of Bio quite a bit - something not really dwelt upon in most high school texts. When he got to that part of Bio in college he felt very ahead of his peers, but doing that alone without the text most kids use would not have been super helpful except in that area.

 

Do note - he goes to a Top 30 college and his science classes are VERY advanced compared to other colleges I've heard back from, so YMMV.

 

With Chem, he did both Apologia books and nothing else. He did not feel underprepared compared to his peers, but he did have to work more in college Chem, so it has me wondering if I should have tossed in Zumdahl's book too for similar reasons as Campbell's for Bio. He still got an A (before any curve), so he was able to make it all work. I just know he had to really work more for it, and that's why I wonder in hindsight.

 

He did Physics too, but has yet to take a college Physics class, so I can't comment on that one.

 

His science courses were:

 

9th Apologia Bio

10th Apologia Chem

11th Advanced Chem, Campbell's Bio (though we did those two over 11th and 12th), Microbio at CC

12th Apologia's Advanced Bio (Anatomy), Apologia Physics (both books)

 

He loaded up on the sciences... that was NOT unusual for a STEM major. I really recommend you look at getting MORE than 4 credits in science if your guy wants to head that direction.

 

Youngest is at our public high school... so his is different, but good for comparison.

 

In 9th he did both Apologia's Bio (read it for fun at home) and Glencoe's Bio at school. IHO, Apologia was a MUCH better Bio book as Glencoe really just skims the surface of things. Apologia goes more in depth and covers more.

 

In 10th he did Glencoe's Chem (and there'd be NO WAY he could do the SAT 2 test).

 

In 11th he did Advanced Bio (class is for college credit and uses Campbell's book - he liked that book the best of the three, but still liked it with Apologia's rather than instead of it), Animal & Plant Science, and Wildlife & Natural Resources.

 

In 12th he'll be doing two Anatomy classes (Anatomy I and Anatomy II).

 

Both middle and youngest will have 7 science credits to head into STEM majors... That is 1 or 2 credits more than many of our STEM bound students, but few of those have just 4.

 

Again, the level of college can matter quite a bit for what you need for prep. If heading to a Top 30 research school (where middle is at), I'd really want to be super prepared as a majority of the other students are. If you came in unprepared you'd have a lot more to do to get a top grade. If heading to a lower level school, Campbell's Bio alone could be sufficient for their intro Bio class. To compare, I had youngest sit in on one of middle's college classes. He called his own college Bio "Bio Lite" after sitting in on middle's class. When I asked him to explain he told me, "In our class we learned that there's an enzyme that helps with this process... in middle son's class they were talking about several specific enzymes involved and what each did." In the latter case it's helpful to know the first part already so one can concentrate on just learning the rest. Both classes are Bio 101 (lowest level Bio class). They are not equal in content though.

 

YMMV

[Brenda in MA]

I will throw our experience out there. My DS took Apologia chem at a co-op taught by a community college prof. He wanted to take the SAT II chem test as an outside verification of our transcript. He complained while studying that the apologia text did not have the same information that the Barrons study guide did. He said the text and class did nothing to help him prepare for the test. He did not do well enough for us to even use the score. He had all A's in the class and found it extremely easy. I kind of have the opinion that Apologia did cover some of the test material but in writing to the student they use different or easier terminology.

 

If you want to just check a block that chem is done, it is a fine text. If you plan to do AP ot sat subject tests, I would look for an additional text.

 

 

:iagree:

 

We had exactly the same experience with Apologia Chem and the SAT Subject test. Even after finishing Apologia Chem and spending 3 intense weeks studying extra material for the subject test, my son did poorly. I was very disappointed and won't use Apologia science after that.

 

Brenda

[Jane Elliot]

 

I think this is fine plan to start with. Both my dc did Apologia and I have no regrets. We found Apologia to be solid for high school level, and highly do-able for a student working mostly independenty. This is important, because often the best curriculum is the one that gets done!

 

Anyway, I would go ahead and start off with the Apologia Bio followed by Apologia Chem. If you find your ds is thriving and you sense his academic capacity is increasing a lot, you can bump up the challenge by doing both the regular & advanced Apologia texts in one year, perhaps for physics (or maybe chem--I just wouldn't recommend it for bio in 9th grade--the regular bio is plenty, and Apologia Adv Bio should really be called Human Anatomy & Physiology--it's in-depth, and very challenging. It's not what would be in an AP Bio course.)

 

After Chemistry in 10th, you could look again at your plan in light of your ds's college plans, his academic capacity (kids change and grow!) and your family situation/finances at that time. He could always continue with Physics as planned (maybe with the higher challenge of both texts), and Advanced something else senior year, or he could take an AP Bio or Chem class in 11th (which is good for getting an outside grade before college applications)and pick up physics in senior year. I wouldn't plan on Apologia's Adv Bio unless he's headed for a health field, though, for the reasons stated above.

 

If you feel it's necessary for your ds to take the SAT Subject tests, it can be done after Apologia Bio or Chem, but it requires setting aside about 6-8 weeks at the end of the year for him to go through and soak up 2-3 additional high school texts, plus work through at least 2 prep books. My ds did this and scored high, but it really takes a kid who's willing to work hard, who remembers large amounts of information and does well making connnections and identifying concepts expressed in different terminology than he's used to. This is really what's required no matter what text you choose--no high school text teaches to the SAT II test (it can't); rather, the test is constructed by drawing material from a variety of texts used nationwide (often picking that unusual piece of info in the little side bar on p. 254! ha ha) If you find you really wish to do this, feel free to pm me and I'll give you the list of texts my ds used.

 

If you do both of Apologia's Physics books, however, prep for the physics SAT Subject test is not nearly so hard--my ds pretty much just looked at one prep book, did one practice test and did fantastic. His tons of previous testing experience probably had a lot to do with it, but obviously the knowledge gained from Apologia was good.

 

All that said, you may not need SAT Subject tests--they're more for admission than scholarship consideration, and often the schools that require them are not the schools that give out much in merit scholarships.

 

For merit scholarships at the colleges which offer them, our experience has been that SAT and ACT scores are key (in addition to high GPA and solid college-prep transcript--and your science plan is solid--colleges want to see the big 3 in the sciences.) So I would encourage your ds to focus and work hard on prepping for the SAT/ACT (over the Subject tests, unless they're needed.) Also, aim for and work hard on prepping for the PSAT--there are universities that offer full tuition and sometimes full-ride scholarships to National Merit Finalists (which is not hard to achieve if you make the cutoff for semifinalist.) No college ever sees the PSAT score, so there is nothing to lose by taking it. Take it for practice in 10th, and for real in 11th. The testing experience alone is worth it.

 

Well, I didn't mean to write a book. I hope some of this helpful! Just wanted to encourage you that you don't have to rethink everything and that your plan will be flexible/workable if needed down the road.

 

 

Great post, Musicmom! Thanks for taking the time to type all that out. I agree 100%.

 

All my kids (the 8 older ones) have used Apologia high school science. The ones who have graduated have very fond memories of it and have done very well in college science courses and majors. Apologia helped my dc fall in love with science, and imo that's half the battle.

 

Over the years, I've seen this topic come up a lot. Several times I've discussed it with my older dc as I evaluate plans for my younger dc. Last year I actually made ds22 (B.S. Biology, dental student) go through the biology text again to find out if he still thought it was a good plan for his sisters. He does think it's a good foundation and urged me to continue using it.

 

One point I'll add is that, as with any text, it matters a lot how you use it. We have a co-op here that "uses" the Apologia texts. They spend co-op days focusing on the experiments. The kids are expected to read the text, but many of them don't. Tests are not expected. Memorization is not expected. They skip around in the text a lot. This is NOT how we use it. My dc read through the text. We do not use extra lectures. Memorization is expected and tests are taken closed-book. They do some, not all, of the experiments (dh decides which.) When I say Apologia is college-prep, I'm assuming this is how it's being used.

[Sherri in MI]

I think this is fine plan to start with. Both my dc did Apologia and I have no regrets. We found Apologia to be solid for high school level, and highly do-able for a student working mostly independenty. This is important, because often the best curriculum is the one that gets done!

 

Anyway, I would go ahead and start off with the Apologia Bio followed by Apologia Chem. If you find your ds is thriving and you sense his academic capacity is increasing a lot, you can bump up the challenge by doing both the regular & advanced Apologia texts in one year, perhaps for physics (or maybe chem--I just wouldn't recommend it for bio in 9th grade--the regular bio is plenty, and Apologia Adv Bio should really be called Human Anatomy & Physiology--it's in-depth, and very challenging. It's not what would be in an AP Bio course.)

 

After Chemistry in 10th, you could look again at your plan in light of your ds's college plans, his academic capacity (kids change and grow!) and your family situation/finances at that time. He could always continue with Physics as planned (maybe with the higher challenge of both texts), and Advanced something else senior year, or he could take an AP Bio or Chem class in 11th (which is good for getting an outside grade before college applications)and pick up physics in senior year. I wouldn't plan on Apologia's Adv Bio unless he's headed for a health field, though, for the reasons stated above.

 

If you feel it's necessary for your ds to take the SAT Subject tests, it can be done after Apologia Bio or Chem, but it requires setting aside about 6-8 weeks at the end of the year for him to go through and soak up 2-3 additional high school texts, plus work through at least 2 prep books. My ds did this and scored high, but it really takes a kid who's willing to work hard, who remembers large amounts of information and does well making connnections and identifying concepts expressed in different terminology than he's used to. This is really what's required no matter what text you choose--no high school text teaches to the SAT II test (it can't); rather, the test is constructed by drawing material from a variety of texts used nationwide (often picking that unusual piece of info in the little side bar on p. 254! ha ha) If you find you really wish to do this, feel free to pm me and I'll give you the list of texts my ds used.

 

If you do both of Apologia's Physics books, however, prep for the physics SAT Subject test is not nearly so hard--my ds pretty much just looked at one prep book, did one practice test and did fantastic. His tons of previous testing experience probably had a lot to do with it, but obviously the knowledge gained from Apologia was good.

 

All that said, you may not need SAT Subject tests--they're more for admission than scholarship consideration, and often the schools that require them are not the schools that give out much in merit scholarships.

 

For merit scholarships at the colleges which offer them, our experience has been that SAT and ACT scores are key (in addition to high GPA and solid college-prep transcript--and your science plan is solid--colleges want to see the big 3 in the sciences.) So I would encourage your ds to focus and work hard on prepping for the SAT/ACT (over the Subject tests, unless they're needed.) Also, aim for and work hard on prepping for the PSAT--there are universities that offer full tuition and sometimes full-ride scholarships to National Merit Finalists (which is not hard to achieve if you make the cutoff for semifinalist.) No college ever sees the PSAT score, so there is nothing to lose by taking it. Take it for practice in 10th, and for real in 11th. The testing experience alone is worth it.

 

Well, I didn't mean to write a book. I hope some of this helpful! Just wanted to encourage you that you don't have to rethink everything and that your plan will be flexible/workable if needed down the road.

 

 

 

Thank you so much! Your post is extremely informative! Encouraging too! I was stressing out. I will stick with Apologia Biology for 9th grade. And re-evaluate after each year.

 

Thanks for suggestions on PSAT as well! I didn't think to take a practice test.

 

My son took the ACT for the first time last Saturday through NUMATS. I plan on him taking it every year & doing a prep class or book. We don't have the results yet of course, but he scored well in English and REading on the practice test. He told me he finished all the tests before the other (older) students, which has me worried. But we will see.

 

Anyway, all that to say, I appreciate what you said about the SAT/ACT scores. That was my understanding as well, even after attending some workshops on high school prep.

 

Thanks again!