Ugh. Math for 11th grader

[Amethyst]

I need suggestions for math for my dd16. She hates math and has low math aptitude. My dh thinks she should do consumer math next year for 11th grade. Are there any consumer math curriculums that any of you recommend? We've used TT with her for years. We used Singapore and TT with my boys, but they could do math. My dd just doesn't have the same aptitude for math. I say low aptitude, but it's not super-low, it just feels like that after my two boys. On a standardized test she would probably score around 40-50th percentile. She has done TT Geometry this year and we have done a super-slow pace and still more than half the days involve tears. I plan on doing math with her during the summer, but dh really doesn't see any point in doing Algebra 2 with her next year and he thinks we should work toward preparing her for SAT math and doing practical math like consumer math.

 

So I'm looking for advice from anyone who has been in a similar situation. Thanks

[klmama]

How did she do in TT Algebra I? That would probably be an indicator of how she would do in TT Algebra II. People usually do better in either algebra or geometry, so don't base next year's math decision on how well she did in geometry. If she plans to go to college, Algebra II may be required for admittance. If they accept her without that, it's likely she'll still have to take remedial classes (which cost $$, go at college pace, and don't earn college credit). SAT math is going to include some from Algebra II, so covering that will be a big help to her.

[Teachin'Mine]

nm

[Amethyst]

How did she do in TT Algebra I? That would probably be an indicator of how she would do in TT Algebra II. People usually do better in either algebra or geometry, so don't base next year's math decision on how well she did in geometry. If she plans to go to college, Algebra II may be required for admittance. If they accept her without that, it's likely she'll still have to take remedial classes (which cost $$, go at college pace, and don't earn college credit). SAT math is going to include some from Algebra II, so covering that will be a big help to her.

 

She DESPISED algebra. I think she's actually doing better in geometry than she did in algebra

[PeterPan]

Did she do TT Algebra 1 or a different algebra? And was she using the old version with the (awful to read) text and just the answers on cds, or the fully automated version?

 

If she did the old version, honestly I can see why she'd be having a problem. I couldn't have had my dd use the old version of TT. I'm just being honest. And frankly, I don't think I could teach from the TT text either. Here's the scoop though. It would be good for her to try to get through algebra 2 before she jumps over to consumer math. That will give her 3 years of math. Some colleges do not count Consumer Math as an academic class for meeting entrance requirements without deficiencies. (Notice the extremely precise way I said that.) Yes Consumer Math is a good class and worthwhile, but it would be much better for her to slog through algebra 2 and get that credit in first. Even very non-selective colleges will have entrance requirements to enter without deficiencies, and consumer math may not help her meet them. She may be cutting it awfully close and have to make it up with remedial work, which will be a faster pace and more expensive, not ideal.

 

If she did another curriculum for algebra 1, you might consider getting her the 2.0 (new version) of TT algebra 1. Let her repeat it. Seriously. See if that helps. Then go ahead and do the automated 2.0 (new version) of TT algebra 2. And then her senior year, if she has time left over, go ahead and do Consumer Math. Some of the Consumer Math courses are pretty challenging, and this will give her the most benefit for maturity to kick in. And reviewing algebra 1 with a different curriculum might help some things gel that didn't the first time. Lots of people repeat courses. It's no crime. Lee Binz did with her boys, and they were super bright and got scholarships. Actually I think it was algebra 1 she mentioned repeating! I repeated AP Chemistry because I didn't like my score the first time I took it. I stole the my high school russian (language) textbook and reviewed all summer because I had essentially flunked.

 

It sounds like she's normal. Somebody has to be at the 50th percentile, and she is. Cool. Try repeating the algebra 1 and see what happens. If you haven't used the automated 2.0 new versions of TT, try them. Like I said, I honestly don't think I could get the printed, older version of TT to work for my dd.

[Farmgirl70]

My dd is not a math lover. In high school, she did Algebra1, Geometry, Algebra 2--that's it. She scored 540 on the math portion of her SAT and then had to take the math placement test for college. She did an online tutorial to prepare for that and was able to pass that, so as not to place into remedial math. She took math her first semester of college and is now officially DONE with math courses. She is glad to have that done and that we did most of the hard work in high school. I'd encourage you to make your dd as strong as she can be in math with you at home. College courses move much faster!

[AngieW in Texas]

My youngest is NOT strong in math and is probably not college-bound either. I am still going to try to get her through college algebra. I'm using a very light math program (MUS, which I think is more basic than TT). It is taking us about 15 months to get through each level of high school math with MUS. I expect us to finish Geometry in maybe December of her 10th grade year and then we will start Algebra II. I am not looking forward to it, but I really want to make sure that if she ends up going to college, she has at least a light background in college algebra before she has to take it in just one semester.

 

I would try very hard to get her through at least Algebra II and preferably Precalculus/College Algebra as well.

[Amethyst]

I had a hard time finding this, but this is from the website of the college that she is most likely to attend. My dh and I both attended here, ds20 just graduated from here, and ds 18 is attending, so it is a pretty good bet that she'll go here too. This is what the website says:

Each candidate should show satisfactory academic preparation in 16 units of subject matter:

• 4 units of English
  
• 3 units of social studies
  
• 2 units of mathematics
  
• 1 unit of science with laboratory
  
• 6 additional units to fulfill graduation requirements
  

 

Here is what the PA homeschooling law states:

 

Secondary school – Grades 7-12

"At the secondary school level, the following courses shall be taught: English, to include language, literature, speech and composition; science; geography; social studies, to include civics, world history, history of the United States and Pennsylvania; mathematics, to include general mathematics, algebra and geometry; art; music; physical education; health; and safety education, including regular and continuous instruction in the dangers and prevention of fires. Such courses of study may include, at the discretion of the supervisor of the home education program, economics; biology; chemistry; foreign languages; trigonometry; or other age-appropriate courses as contained in Chapter 5 (Curriculum Requirements) of the State Board of Education."

 

 

 

 

So the way I see it, we may be able to have her only do two years of math. Whether that's advisable or not is another story. I still lean toward having her take a third year of math, but it looks like it does not necessarily have to be algebra 2. Which brings me back to my original question...Is there such a thing as a consumer math curriculum? (I'm still not convinced this is the way I'll go. I'll probably suffer through algebra 2, but I want to explore options.)

[1pageatatime]

So the way I see it, we may be able to have her only do two years of math. Whether that's advisable or not is another story. I still lean toward having her take a third year of math, but it looks like it does not necessarily have to be algebra 2. Which brings me back to my original question...Is there such a thing as a consumer math curriculum? (I'm still not convinced this is the way I'll go. I'll probably suffer through algebra 2, but I want to explore options.)

 

 

I 100% understand!! :grouphug: Here are two Consumer Math programs I have my eye on.

 

CLE and ABeka

[Rebel Yell]

I had a hard time finding this, but this is from the website of the college that she is most likely to attend. My dh and I both attended here, ds20 just graduated from here, and ds 18 is attending, so it is a pretty good bet that she'll go here too. This is what the website says:

Each candidate should show satisfactory academic preparation in 16 units of subject matter:

• 4 units of English
  
• 3 units of social studies
  
• 2 units of mathematics
  
• 1 unit of science with laboratory
  
• 6 additional units to fulfill graduation requirements
  

Here is what the PA homeschooling law states:

 

Secondary school – Grades 7-12

"At the secondary school level, the following courses shall be taught: English, to include language, literature, speech and composition; science; geography; social studies, to include civics, world history, history of the United States and Pennsylvania; mathematics, to include general mathematics, algebra and geometry; art; music; physical education; health; and safety education, including regular and continuous instruction in the dangers and prevention of fires. Such courses of study may include, at the discretion of the supervisor of the home education program, economics; biology; chemistry; foreign languages; trigonometry; or other age-appropriate courses as contained in Chapter 5 (Curriculum Requirements) of the State Board of Education."

 

 

 

 

So the way I see it, we may be able to have her only do two years of math. Whether that's advisable or not is another story. I still lean toward having her take a third year of math, but it looks like it does not necessarily have to be algebra 2. Which brings me back to my original question...Is there such a thing as a consumer math curriculum? (I'm still not convinced this is the way I'll go. I'll probably suffer through algebra 2, but I want to explore options.)

 

Copied from http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/laws_and_regulations/20314/general_laws_and_regulations/975030

 

(d) The following minimum courses in grades nine through twelve are established as a requirement for graduation in a home education program:

(1) Four years of English.

(2) Three years of mathematics.

(3) Three years of science.

(4) Three years of social studies

(5) Two years of arts and humanities.

 

About PA law: the law states that she must do 3 "years" of math. It does NOT specify 3 "credits" (even if that's what 99.99% of people assume.) It also does not say what those three years have to be. General math, algebra, and geometry have to be tauight, but again, the law does not say that each has to be a full credit.

 

I am NOT a lawyer, just pointing out some of the absurdities in the PA law. IMO, you can do two 'credits" over three "years" and still fulfill the law. Also, if she turns 17 before her Senor year, you can always not report her that year and do whatever you want and she needs.

 

Good luck!

[Jann in TX]

I had a non-mathy dd-- in fact she was very non- academic (learning differences). I still insisted that she have Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 (we skipped Geometry-- it took 2 years for each Algebra!).

 

We did not think our dd would go to college... again she struggled academically. Other than the 2 math credits she really did not complete any other 'credit'-- but she did 'school' so I guess you could say we 'un-schooled' her (promoted learning environment and encouraged her to think and learn).

 

DD decided to go to college. She would never have passed the ACT/SAT so she need to pass the Compass test in Math and English (reading/ writing and grammar). She passed it all the first time. ( Englishgrammar101.com is awesome!) She NEEDED to take a college level math class for her degree and I was so glad we persevered through Algebra 2-- there were tears many days-- but in the end it was worth it. This DD graduated from college with HONORS... (never saw that one coming!).

 

We did have our dd take a Dave Ramsey course-- it really has helped her be responsible with her spending/saving.

[JuanitaL]

I had a non-mathy dd-- in fact she was very non- academic (learning differences). I still insisted that she have Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 (we skipped Geometry-- it took 2 years for each Algebra!).

 

We did not think our dd would go to college... again she struggled academically. Other than the 2 math credits she really did not complete any other 'credit'-- but she did 'school' so I guess you could say we 'un-schooled' her (promoted learning environment and encouraged her to think and learn).

 

DD decided to go to college. She would never have passed the ACT/SAT so she need to pass the Compass test in Math and English (reading/ writing and grammar). She passed it all the first time. ( Englishgrammar101.com is awesome!) She NEEDED to take a college level math class for her degree and I was so glad we persevered through Algebra 2-- there were tears many days-- but in the end it was worth it. This DD graduated from college with HONORS... (never saw that one coming!).

 

We did have our dd take a Dave Ramsey course-- it really has helped her be responsible with her spending/saving.

This is so encouraging to me. I have one that really struggles sometimes.

[rieshy]

Go with the consumer math! I have the Abeka on loan, it seems a bit outdated to me- and somehow vaguely annoying. I'm looking at a combination of some "bookstore" business math books and some mental math books for my senior.

 

 

E-Z Business Math (Barron's E-Z)

 

Secrets of Mental Math: The Mathemagician's Guide to Lightning Calculation and Amazing Math Tricks

 

I was a non-math but otherwise straight A student... National Merit Finalist... My parents hired tutors, I sweated, I cried- through all three years of the traditional maths; I brought my grades up to b's- barely... As soon as my tests were over the barely understood material was immediately flushed from my brain. Fast forward to college, I had almost finished my last semester when I received a letter from the administration telling me that a mistake was made by my guidance counselor and I could not graduate without first taking College Algebra. Yep, summer school and and August graduation. The funny thing was I LOVED the class. For the first time in my life math made sense. It was easy. IMHO it was not the teacher nor was it the text it was that at 14 and 16 my brain wasn't ready for algebra but at 21 it was easy. My current senior is the same way. She's finished the 3 years of traditional TT and made good grades- but I don't think she retained any of it. I want her to have a firm grip on real-life math before she goes to college, even if it means taking an extra math in college.

[Amethyst]

 

Copied from http://www.portal.st...ulations/975030

 

(d) The following minimum courses in grades nine through twelve are established as a requirement for graduation in a home education program:

(1) Four years of English.

(2) Three years of mathematics.

(3) Three years of science.

(4) Three years of social studies

(5) Two years of arts and humanities.

 

About PA law: the law states that she must do 3 "years" of math. It does NOT specify 3 "credits" (even if that's what 99.99% of people assume.) It also does not say what those three years have to be. General math, algebra, and geometry have to be tauight, but again, the law does not say that each has to be a full credit.

 

I am NOT a lawyer, just pointing out some of the absurdities in the PA law. IMO, you can do two 'credits" over three "years" and still fulfill the law. Also, if she turns 17 before her Senor year, you can always not report her that year and do whatever you want and she needs.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks for this. Yes, I've always interpreted that as 3 years and not 3 credits, when I need to. Also, I've never reported to the school district longer than necessary. So, her junior year will be the last one I'll be reporting for. But the transcript for college applications is another matter. Ugh. Still trying to figure out what to do.

[Amethyst]

Did she do TT Algebra 1 or a different algebra? And was she using the old version with the (awful to read) text and just the answers on cds, or the fully automated version?

Our Algebra TT is the older version. I can't imagine buying a new TT course at this point. Maybe they have a trade-in program so I don't have to pay full price???

 

 

 

It sounds like she's normal. Somebody has to be at the 50th percentile, and she is. Cool. Try repeating the algebra 1 and see what happens. If you haven't used the automated 2.0 new versions of TT, try them. Like I said, I honestly don't think I could get the printed, older version of TT to work for my dd.

 

 

The idea of her repeating Algebra I is not a bad idea. I definitely think it would be easier the second time around. Even in Geometry when they throw some algebra into a problem, I can see that it is easier than last year. Maybe some algebra over the summer...

[kiana]

If she's looking at college, I would still strongly, strongly recommend doing more algebra. Most colleges require at least a general education math class, and if she can't place into it she will have to take remedial algebra in college, when she hasn't done algebra in 4 years. This will make the remedial math class very difficult for her. Also, planning her high school focused on one specific college just seems like a bad idea.

 

My personal recommendation would be to work on redoing algebra 1 this year -- update your TT as others suggested -- she may find that it goes much better with more maturity. This will also prepare her for the SAT, as she will need algebra for that.

[Amethyst]

 

I 100% understand!! :grouphug: Here are two Consumer Math programs I have my eye on.

 

CLE and ABeka

 

Thanks. I'm going to check these out right now. One concern though: for years I have avoided Christian curriculum like the plague. But it's math, so maybe they won't be so bad. Can you tell me how much Christianese I might have to put up with these 2 programs?

[Amethyst]

I had a non-mathy dd-- in fact she was very non- academic (learning differences). I still insisted that she have Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 (we skipped Geometry-- it took 2 years for each Algebra!).

 

We did not think our dd would go to college... again she struggled academically. Other than the 2 math credits she really did not complete any other 'credit'-- but she did 'school' so I guess you could say we 'un-schooled' her (promoted learning environment and encouraged her to think and learn).

 

DD decided to go to college. She would never have passed the ACT/SAT so she need to pass the Compass test in Math and English (reading/ writing and grammar). She passed it all the first time. ( Englishgrammar101.com is awesome!) She NEEDED to take a college level math class for her degree and I was so glad we persevered through Algebra 2-- there were tears many days-- but in the end it was worth it. This DD graduated from college with HONORS... (never saw that one coming!).

 

We did have our dd take a Dave Ramsey course-- it really has helped her be responsible with her spending/saving.

 

Is the Compass test some kind of admission test at her college? I've never heard of it? Can you tell me what you used to prepare your dd for the math part of the Compass test? Is the Dave Ramsey course something geared toward students or adults? Every time I've ever looked at what Dave Ramsey has to say, we already pretty much do, so I've never taken the time to look over classes specifically. Maybe I"ll go do that now...

[kiana]

The Compass test is a placement test used by universities, including community colleges. Basically, what it's designed to do is to see how much math a student *remembers* from what they have had in high school (many have had precalculus or even calculus and still place into beginning algebra because they have retained nothing). It is often taken once the student has been admitted, and will determine what level of math class they need to take. For example, at the local community college, a student may place into arithmetic, pre-algebra, algebra 1, algebra 2, college algebra, trigonometry, or calculus. Here is the brochure -- http://www.act.org/compass/pdf/COMPASSOverview.pdf -- and on page 7, there are details about math. Here are some sample test questions -- http://www.act.org/compass/sample/ -- so that you can see what it's like.

[klmama]

Have you checked with the college to find out what the math requirements are for college graduation? Getting in may only require two courses, but if that's all she's had there may be more required once she gets there. It may be easier to suffer through a year at the math at home than a very intense semester of math at college.

[PeterPan]

The idea of her repeating Algebra I is not a bad idea. I definitely think it would be easier the second time around. Even in Geometry when they throw some algebra into a problem, I can see that it is easier than last year. Maybe some algebra over the summer...

 

 

I'm not saying it's your best/only option, but if you wanted to do TT algebra 1 new edition (2.0), your resale would be very, very strong, making your end cost quite low.

[bobbeym]

BJU also has a consumer math curric, but it might be too Christian-based for you if you prefer secular material.

 

Here's a list of free financial education curriculum. No idea if any of it is good.

 

Another one that looks to be secular, but no preview available.

[PeterPan]

The BJU Consumer Math is very good. They recommend it for the dc's senior year. I would redo the algebra with TT, see where that gets her, proceed on into Algebra 2 if the TT algebra 1 goes ok, then look at Consumer Math for her senior year. That way she's getting 3 academic units of math. A college math or may not count consumer math toward the number of academic units (credits) to enter without deficiencies. Where I worked, they did not. The number at that time was 14 units. You want to look at your transcript, look at what options she wants open to her (votech school, college, whatever) and make sure she'll have it.

[Amethyst]

Have you checked with the college to find out what the math requirements are for college graduation? Getting in may only require two courses, but if that's all she's had there may be more required once she gets there. It may be easier to suffer through a year at the math at home than a very intense semester of math at college.

 

Yes, we have. There is one math course required for elementary ed majors and it looks like it is a pretty basic math course covering a variety of subjects. Right now one of the things I'm considering is getting the textbook that they use in that class and seeing what topics she really still needs work at. I can then use either that textbook or TT or Khan Academy or whatever resources I can find to help her succeed in that class. I will have 2 years to go through a college textbook, so I think that's doable.

[Amethyst]

The Compass test is a placement test used by universities, including community colleges. Basically, what it's designed to do is to see how much math a student *remembers* from what they have had in high school (many have had precalculus or even calculus and still place into beginning algebra because they have retained nothing). It is often taken once the student has been admitted, and will determine what level of math class they need to take. For example, at the local community college, a student may place into arithmetic, pre-algebra, algebra 1, algebra 2, college algebra, trigonometry, or calculus. Here is the brochure -- http://www.act.org/c...ASSOverview.pdf -- and on page 7, there are details about math. Here are some sample test questions -- http://www.act.org/compass/sample/ -- so that you can see what it's like.

 

Thanks for the links.

[PeterPan]

She wants to go el ed??? Wow, you really need to back up and redo algebra 1 and get this more solid. You're only looking at the college class, but she's also going to have a proficiency/state exam to pass to get certified. It's probably pretty basic stuff, but frankly she doesn't sound like she's really understanding basic stuff. Elementary math has a lot more algebra in it than there used to be. She REALLY needs to repeat algebra 1 and at least get that solid. And then, wasn't there math on the GRE? A teacher usually has to go for a Masters after a while, meaning she'll need to take the GRE. It's been 15 years, so I don't even remember what's on there.

[Mountainmama]

when my husband and I took el ed cert test, it included a good amount of algebra and geometry

[kiana]

What OhElizabeth said.

 

If she wants to go for El Ed, she MUST work on shoring up her pre-algebra and algebra 1 skills. Not just understanding how to do problems, but WHY and HOW to do problems, because she is going to NEED to explain this to children in multiple ways and not just stick to 'because that's what the back of the book says.' She will not only need to pass the class, but understand it well enough to pass the state certification exam and not get flunked on student teaching.

 

I know she will hate it, but she should also take math her senior year. It does not have to be 'hard' but something that will require continuing use of algebra 1 skills. I would suggest re-doing algebra 1 for 11th grade and a non-rigorous algebra 2 for 12th grade. Otherwise, she runs a very serious risk of forgetting her algebra 1/pre-algebra and placing into non-credit, remedial classes.

 

I haven't taught this class (I usually teach algebra and calculus classes) but I will ask my officemate who has taught it for some more advice for your dd in a day or two. :)

[Amethyst]

Well, first of all, just to clarify, she hopes to be a kindergarten or at most a 1st grade teacher, so I don't think she'll be explaining algebra to anyone. Second, she'll be going to college where, presumably, she'll be learning the math that she needs to learn. I understand that there are exams that she'll have to take and her student teaching could be in a higher grade than kindergarten, but here's the thing...

 

I don't think she's as hopeless in math as I sometimes indicate. She hates it. Passionately. And she doesn't have the aptitude for it that her brothers have. But they are 99th percentile kids. She's not. But that doesn't mean that she's hopeless. I've finally convince my dh that doing Consumer Math would be a disservice to her. Right now I'm comfortable with the idea of using the college textbook to find out the areas that are weaknesses. The idea of totally re-doing Algebra I would be demoralizing. Instead, I think this is a practical approach. Find out where the deficiencies are, and work on them.

[PeterPan]

... the idea of using the college textbook to find out the areas that are weaknesses.

 

You mentioned percentiles. Have you done any standardized testing lately? Or placement tests for a couple curricula? It would be interesting to see if some holes show up if she did placement tests for TT, Horizons, whatever. As far as hating math, I'm sympathetic with that (or trying to be), as I'm a history hater in a family and world where most people love it. But that doesn't mean that 80% of the issue wasn't that it was never made to connect with me. I wonder if you ever tried Hands-on Equations with her? Seriously, it is the most basic, vital, foundational thought process I can imagine. Depending on her scores on placement tests and what's really tripping her up (which you have pointed out isn't as dire as we're taking it), it might be helpful to try something like HOE. Do it a different way. Instead of telling her you're redoing algebra, how about going to the teacher resource lab at your local cc (they're cool!) and borrowing nifty algebra manipulatives to try. Call it career exploration or something. Or get her a student to tutor. Or make up some excuse (cuz I'm not feeling very creative). Maybe try the book "Crossing the River with Dogs" or that text you were talking about. Just something that lets her interact with math. Then let her try these other manipulatives until SHE finds a way that HER brain connects with it.

 

In the BJU math they use algebra mats. MUS uses squares and blocks. HOE uses Sorry/chess style pieces. (highly recommend!) I'd try it all, just as you're working through some other text. HOE has videos to go with it, and she might find it lets her visualize math in a new way that clicks.

 

You know Zaccaro also has a book Real World Algebra. Might give you another way to explore the math. Some people really struggle when things are theoretical and blossom when you put it into real life situations and word problems. That Crossing the River with Dogs is the same idea, a whole book of nothing but word problems and strategies for approaching them.

 

Whatever, just some more ideas. :)

[Amethyst]

 

You mentioned percentiles. Have you done any standardized testing lately? Or placement tests for a couple curricula? It would be interesting to see if some holes show up if she did placement tests for TT, Horizons, whatever. As far as hating math, I'm sympathetic with that (or trying to be), as I'm a history hater in a family and world where most people love it. But that doesn't mean that 80% of the issue wasn't that it was never made to connect with me. I wonder if you ever tried Hands-on Equations with her? Seriously, it is the most basic, vital, foundational thought process I can imagine. Depending on her scores on placement tests and what's really tripping her up (which you have pointed out isn't as dire as we're taking it), it might be helpful to try something like HOE. Do it a different way. Instead of telling her you're redoing algebra, how about going to the teacher resource lab at your local cc (they're cool!) and borrowing nifty algebra manipulatives to try. Call it career exploration or something. Or get her a student to tutor. Or make up some excuse (cuz I'm not feeling very creative). Maybe try the book "Crossing the River with Dogs" or that text you were talking about. Just something that lets her interact with math. Then let her try these other manipulatives until SHE finds a way that HER brain connects with it.

 

In the BJU math they use algebra mats. MUS uses squares and blocks. HOE uses Sorry/chess style pieces. (highly recommend!) I'd try it all, just as you're working through some other text. HOE has videos to go with it, and she might find it lets her visualize math in a new way that clicks.

 

You know Zaccaro also has a book Real World Algebra. Might give you another way to explore the math. Some people really struggle when things are theoretical and blossom when you put it into real life situations and word problems. That Crossing the River with Dogs is the same idea, a whole book of nothing but word problems and strategies for approaching them.

 

Whatever, just some more ideas. :)

The last time she was tested was 8th grade (2 years ago). I just looked at the scores after my last post. It was interesting. The overall math score was 47th percentile, but when they broke it down further, it was interesting. Her computation score was 89th percentile. Her algebra percentile was 75th, geometry 17th! Other than geometry (which I'm sure she would do much better in now that we've actually done geometry), her weakest score was data interpretation. Her problem-solving areas were generally right around 50th percentile. I don't plan on testing her again until PSATs in October. We'll be doing prep for that over the summer.

 

I've never done placement testing for TT. Is that something they have on their website? For free?

 

I have never heard of Hands on Equation but I'm going to look it up right now. I'm intrigued! Also I've never heard of the book Crossing the River with Dogs. I'll look that up right now too. (I'm just hoping it's not along the lines of Life of Fred. That did not work in our house at all.) I think I might have a book about real life algebra problems we got when my oldest was doing algebra. Maybe I'll pull that out.

 

Thanks very much for the suggestions!

[PeterPan]

That geometry score in 8th was relative to her peers, so no it's not likely to go up. Some people are better at geometry than others. There are some ways to model geometry. RS sells a neat kit or use a whiteboard and draw things or use toothpicks or just whatever it takes to bring it into real for her. Pieces of felt fabric maybe? I have tons of felt right now, so I have felt on the brain, haha. It's cheap, so you could actually cut it to see if things are equal, etc.

 

The data reading is actually something you cover in *science* curricula as well as math. If you do the BJU math and science, you hit it in both. Do something non-traditional like Singapore, and yeah you can have some holes there.

 

Yes, TT has free placement tests. I suggest you download them, say the placement test for the pre-algebra or the math 7, and just see what happens. Back up like that because you just want to see what's going on. Do one each day for the rest of the week, and by the end of the week you know where her basic holes are. You could do the same level tests for Horizons too, say starting with gr 6, if you don't like TT. It's just free information.

 

I can drag out my copy of Crossing the River with Dogs. It's been a while since I looked at it. Might be cheap used on amazon right now, usually is. Maybe google books has a toc for it? If you're terribly interested, I'll pull it out. HOE though is FABULOUS for someone who's understanding is maybe just a little glitchy. Those placement tests will tell you where to put your efforts.

 

You know, I'm looking at those scores again. That's pretty wild that the geometry was SO much lower. Something isn't adding up. Either the algebra didn't click or the problem is TT or SOMETHING. With scores like that, she has the ABILITY to do just fine in math. I'd dig farther before you give up on this. Either she's got holes or she has no holes and just hates what math has *become*. Have you ever *shown* her the 2.0 TT lessons and other math curricula to see if a change would solve the problem?

[kiana]

Most of the students in El Ed hope to become a kindergarten or first grade teacher. Seriously. It's not just student teaching -- this is the placement that they all want, so her chances of finding a job there are smaller. She canNOT guarantee that she will teach the grades she wants.

 

While it's true that they'll teach what she needs in college, her basic arithmetic/algebraic skills need to be there first. If she doesn't pass the placement test she'll end up having to take several semesters worth at college developmental math. Even if she passes it, if she doesn't have the basic skills needed she may need to take it more than once. You can't teach everything in one semester.

 

Her test scores sound good, except for the weird geometry score. I would check with a placement test and see how much algebra she remembers, though. Again, I would make sure to do at least math review in 12th grade as well, to try to avoid non-credit developmental classes in college.

[Amethyst]

 

 

I have never heard of Hands on Equation but I'm going to look it up right now.

 

Here I am quoting myself, but I have to tell you that after I posted this, I went to the website for Hands on Equation and my youngest dd who is in 7th grade at the public school saw what I was looking at and said, "Hey! We use those at school!" It certainly looks like an interesting idea.

 

I also saw the TT placement tests. I think I'll wait a few days (since summer just officially started today) and then give dd16 the Algebra test.

 

Thanks for your thoughts and advice, everyone!