Do Singapore Math levels line up with PS

[Flowergirl159]

I thought Singapore Math levels were about a year above that of the ps system. But from reading on forums, I have discovered that many Singapore users, seem to have their children at the same level in Singapore that they would be grade level. Can anyone clarify this for me please? I have a DC grade 1 level on book 1B and another DC grade 3 level on book 2B. Does that mean one child is ahead or one child is behind her peers?

[Five More Minutes]

If it's important to get an accurate assessment of your child's math level in relation to peers, then I would start by looking at your ps system standards and, if possible, the texts they are using. Compare them with the Singapore scope and sequence. That will give you an idea of the expected level of peers in your area.

 

But ... A hs child who has been working at her own pace to master math topics is going to be differently prepared than a child in a classroom setting who has to work more-or-less in step with classmates. For example, a child in a classroom, struggling with a topic, may not have the opportunity to identify the struggle, figure out why, and work to master it. The class moves on to the next topic, and then to the next grade, where the child will again encounter challenging math concepts without having resolved those from the year before. Or the teacher may choose to slow down the pace, not completing the expected program that year -- but the class still moves on to the next grade level having missed some topics.

 

So even if you determine that the standards indicate that your Gr. 3 student should be working in Singapore 3A, it's possible that the child may still be working ahead of his peers in the local system.

[boscopup]

Some public schools use Singapore, so you can't really make a generalization. I think a child working a semester behind in Singapore will probably do just fine on standardized testing though.

 

The schools around here do NOT use Singapore, and I know at least some county schools that are a good year behind Singapore.

[Spy Car]

I thought Singapore Math levels were about a year above that of the ps system. But from reading on forums, I have discovered that many Singapore users, seem to have their children at the same level in Singapore that they would be grade level. Can anyone clarify this for me please? I have a DC grade 1 level on book 1B and another DC grade 3 level on book 2B. Does that mean one child is ahead or one child is behind her peers?

 

Primary Mathematics Standards Edition aligns pretty closely with the math program we are using here in CA. The topics where Singapore is "ahead" of the standard are generally the topics where the enVision math program is likewise "ahead."

 

I strongly prefer PM SE to enVision, and with the IPs and CWPs the challenge is greater, but the "core" books cover pretty much the same thing as enVision does at the same grade level.

 

The math standards in many states is well "behind" that of CA, so the question of "ahead" or "behind" has to the answered "relative to what?"

 

Bill

[EKS]

The Standards edition of Singapore math seems to align pretty closely with the sequence here in WA in terms of *topics* covered. However, I think the difference comes in the problem solving techniques that Singapore teaches and expects students to master, which can be way beyond the standard curriculum.

[Crimson Wife]

As part of recordkeeping for our virtual charter, I have to align what my kids are doing in SM with the CA state math standards. For all the MAJOR topics, SM is ahead by at least one grade level by the middle of elementary. That isn't to say that some schools in CA are not using programs that are similarly ahead of the standards. However, the series that my kids' zoned school uses has a S&S that is behind SM.

 

Now if my DD needs a second year of pre-algebra this coming year rather than being ready to move on to algebra 1, she will no longer be ahead of the accelerated sequence in my district. However, the algebra 1 book that my district uses (Prentice Hall California Algebra 1) is not as rigorous as Singapore Discovering Mathematics 8.

[Arcadia]

The standards edition aligned well with my school district's Envision Math. They cover whatever is needed for my boys state standardized tests. The chinese immersion private elementary school my older used to attend on saturday use the standards edition at grade level for their school.

[SKL]

I understand that SM is a bit advanced over PS. I bought the practice workbooks and they say 1a is for 2nd grade, 2a is for 3rd, etc. That said, it can't be that simple. SM starts out very basic just like other programs. The hard part is the way it asks kids to think about math after the initial basic stuff is introduced. It's not straightforward to a child who isn't "mathy." So it would be frustrating to the average kid if used "on grade level" in a typical classroom, where kids are not given much time to think things through creatively. There are a couple of math concepts that SM teaches earlier, and some that it teaches later than the typical PS. ... My kids' parochial school just started using SM this year. They started 1a in August, but could not get all the way through it in a semester. They are now partway through 1b and they are doing it rather half-@$$ed to get done by the end of the year. There's no way the kids are working through some of the problems on their own. I think the teacher is just doing it for the class as they follow along and write the answers in their workbooks. Needless to say, I'll be remediating math over the summer.

[dmmm]

In my area (FL), the PS are ahead in some aspects in 4th grade that aren't in 4a and 4b. For instance, SM does not have dividing by a double digit divisor yet.

 

It is confusing to me that SM lists 4th grade as using 3b and 4a, because that means the PS are a 1/2 a year ahead.

[Crimson Wife]

It is confusing to me that SM lists 4th grade as using 3b and 4a, because that means the PS are a 1/2 a year ahead.

 

Which books are you talking about? Primary Mathematics does not say to use 3B in 4th grade. From the FAQ's at Singaporemath.com:

 

"If your child is starting first grade, start with Primary Mathematics 1A and 1B. If your child is starting 2nd to 6th grade, give him/her assessment tests to determine what level to start with."

 

Now some kids in 4th grade will place into 3B, but if the child started with 1A/B in 1st, then he/she should be using 4A/B in 4th.

[nmoira]

I understand that SM is a bit advanced over PS. I bought the practice workbooks and they say 1a is for 2nd grade, 2a is for 3rd, etc. That said, it can't be that simple. SM starts out very basic just like other programs. The hard part is the way it asks kids to think about math after the initial basic stuff is introduced. It's not straightforward to a child who isn't "mathy." So it would be frustrating to the average kid if used "on grade level" in a typical classroom, where kids are not given much time to think things through creatively.

 

Primary Math (upon which the Singaporemath.com books are based) was the only program used in Singapore for many years, undifferentiated. With competent instruction, and yes, time to think, it should be accessible to kids who aren't mathy.

[SKL]

 

Primary Math (upon which the Singaporemath.com books are based) was the only program used in Singapore for many years, undifferentiated. With competent instruction, and yes, time to think, it should be accessible to kids who aren't mathy.

I don't disagree, but in my experience, the children are not given the time to think. I have been very much discouraged from allowing my child to work on the practice pages before they cover them in class, and I don't believe they have enough time to work things out in class either. I suspect that in Singapore (or wherever else this curriculum really works), the kids are given more time either in or outside of class to master each concept before they move to the next. Many US schools don't give math enough time each day to get that deep at an early age. (Then again, I could just be dealing with a teacher who doesn't get it herself.)

[twoxcell]

Which books are you talking about? Primary Mathematics does not say to use 3B in 4th grade. From the FAQ's at Singaporemath.com:

I believe this is what she is referring to.

http://www.singaporemath.com/Placement_Guide_s/85.htm

 

According to this chart SM would be about half of a year ahead.

[redsquirrel]

My school district uses SM, primary math, at grade level.

[8filltheheart]

My 5th grader is currently finishing 5b in both Horizons and Math in Focus (which is similar to but not SM). The 2 texts at the beginning of 5b align almost exactly. The rest of the bks cover similar material but in different sequence and presented differently, but not enough of a difference that I can say one is ahead/behind the other.

[MistyMountain]

My dd is in ps and I after school at her exact grade level in Signapore. At dd's school they use Saxon and she is nearing the end of the year. She is finishing up kindergarten level B and the scope and sequence is right on par with what they are doing in class with Saxon. They actually are practically doing the same things. The school district doesn't use Saxon though. they only use it at dd's charter school. The school district was using the new math and switched to something else. From what a friend's dd is doing it sounds like they work on similar things in the school district too but Singapore just has a different way of teaching the concepts which makes more sense. Saxon and Singapore teach some of the things similarly and don't seem too different but that will probably change in later grades.

[kitten18]

The Standards edition of Singapore math seems to align pretty closely with the sequence here in WA in terms of *topics* covered. However, I think the difference comes in the problem solving techniques that Singapore teaches and expects students to master, which can be way beyond the standard curriculum.

:iagree: We're in CA and obviously the Standards edition lines up with the CA standards but based on what I've seen in test prep books and released test questions there's something much deeper and more complex in the SM.

 

DD recently finished her state testing and she said it was "easy".

Last year when she took the 2nd grade test, she had just finished 2A and she scored very well on the test.

 

 

 

I believe this is what she is referring to.

http://www.singapore..._Guide_s/85.htm

 

According to this chart SM would be about half of a year ahead.

Huh, that's interesting. I've never seen that before.

[Flowergirl159]

Okay, thanks :) I was meaning as in reference to their peers. So I will need to look at our states curriculum. Thanks again, this thread has been an interesting read :)

[Candid]

Personally, I think it is a mistake to compare texts to texts. It would be much wiser to compare some standard test results used with students.

 

A text can "cover" a topic but have students who several months later can't do a thing with the topic. So they didn't really learn anything.

[jennynd]

My DD finished SM 2B and constantly doing my DS 3rd grade school homework for him :glare: . So I supposed even the scope/sequence is similar in grade level. SM does go a bit deeper

[Annic]

My kids are done with Singapore math, and we used the Primary Mathematics, and it is ahead in some areas but other topics are delayed and then covered in depth when they are introduced, but I have seen parts of the other material, like the practice books and Math in Focus. These are all different and somewhat with different market in mind, I think, and so you cannot really say one is what is in all as far as level or depth, any more than you can say that Saxon levels are just like Everyday Math, just because they both come from the U.S. However, there are similarities, too, as between different US math books.

[melmichigan]

Some public schools use Singapore, so you can't really make a generalization. I think a child working a semester behind in Singapore will probably do just fine on standardized testing though.

 

 

:iagree: I have two DD's working behind in SM Standards Edition, just beginning 4A this week, and both tested perfectly average on the Stanford 10 for the end of 4th grade this month. One had a Stanine of 5 and the other a 6 (4, 5, and 6 are average). I could stress about it, but they are working at their pace and retaining the material, which is more important. They will catch up in the next year or two.

 

I think there are two different things to consider when discussing PS versus homeschool, the level of material taught, as well as the level of material retained. They are often two different things, but that's a whole different discussion. ;)

[Flowergirl159]

Oh wow, thanks so much everyone for your replies! Just to further clarify, hubby would like to know that our children are not falling behind compared to the public school system. He would like to know that they are where they should be if they were in school, or ahead would be fine too. :) But he doesn't want them to be falling behind. So this why I was asking my original question. Either one of my dc are ahead or the other one is behind grade level. There are 2 years in age between them but only one book in between them. So I was looking to see if we are fine to continue how we are or if I need to gently push one of my dc a little to catch them up. Thanks :)

[Crimson Wife]

2B and 3B cover a lot of the same measurement topics, only more in depth in the latter book. You could totally skip those chapters in 2B if you felt it important to get your child caught up to grade level.

[Flowergirl159]

Ahhhh thanks Crimson wife! I hadn't thought of that :) I am fast tracking through a couple of the easier fun chapters in 2B, so I think that would totally work. I will have a look into it, thanks.

[Spy Car]

Oh wow, thanks so much everyone for your replies! Just to further clarify, hubby would like to know that our children are not falling behind compared to the public school system. He would like to know that they are where they should be if they were in school, or ahead would be fine too. :) But he doesn't want them to be falling behind. So this why I was asking my original question. Either one of my dc are ahead or the other one is behind grade level. There are 2 years in age between them but only one book in between them. So I was looking to see if we are fine to continue how we are or if I need to gently push one of my dc a little to catch them up. Thanks :)

 

Again, the scope and sequence (and whether you are "ahead" or "behind" would depend on what standards you are using as a base of comparison). Children are different in their abilities. An advantage you have in home educating is you can meet theirneeds rather than trying to keep up with some external norm. Both your children are with-in a normal nation-wide range where they are.

 

If you feel they are doing their best work and making progress then I would not worry too much (and as an "afterschooler" I am one determined to stay well "ahead" of the math instruction in the schools).

 

The other thing that should help reassure you and your husband is that if your children are thriving and understanding the Singapore method, they are getting a much better math program than typically used in most US schools. If I had to choose being half a level "behind" in PM or ahead in an inferior program, it would be "no contest." Depth wins.

 

Bill