S/O How Much Credence Should One Give to Curriculum Providers Belief System

[AimeeM]

 

Please, check out "Behold and See" from Catholic Heritage Curricula. Compared to Apologia, I find them much better!!

 

https://www.chcweb.c...PE/catalog.html

 

it is an engaging, friendly text with fun science and seems very easy to teach. I have heard raves about it and I'm going to try it this year in 5th grade with my daughter.

*chuckle*

I believe I"m the one who recommended them to you a few months ago (or one who did so, lol).

Unfortunately they only go up to grade 6 right now; their grade 7 is life science and we aren't interested in doing life science next year (we've used CHC science before).

[Murphy101]

Good point!!! It's hard to attack a behemoth and actually get anywhere unless it's a HUGE movement.

 

It's not even about attacking the behemoth or even "getting anywhere". When one company has literally dozens of subsidiary companies they might have a little or lot or practically nothing to do wi each other's agenda - its really difficult to draw a line. It comes out more like a basket weave than a line.

 

Is this in High School? I haven't really researched a whole lot on my options at that point. For all we know, I might finally grow a pair and design my own curriculum by then!!! LOL

I'm truly amazed by Abeka...they have been outwardly and vocally anti-Catholic and even had to change one of their history books due to how inflammatory it was. EEK!!

And I'm dying of curiosity about your two exceptions!!!! LOL

 

The only part of Abeka I can sorta stomach is their science because I completely agree with you. But when it came to finding something considered 'rigorous' for high school science that was within my budget and came completely mapped out and scripted in terms a non science mom could pick up and go with? It came down to Abeka or Apologia. Personally of the two, I think Apologia to be more tolerable than Abeka. And honestly? That might be a factor in Seton offering Apologia as an option bc I know I told them I felt that way and I know many other catholic www and IRL have felt that way too.

 

My question is why Catholics have not written and published their own materials. :huh:

I would be very, very cautious about using a secular science book, because there would be so much I'd have to filter and explain and discuss. I'm not shackled to young earth (as in a literal six-day creation), but I am definitely, firmly in the camp of Special Creation (the term used before "intelligent design"), and I definitely believe that the earth is not a gazillion years old; I wouldn't want to have to examine every.single.thing to see if it's implying in any way that we came from slime on a rock.

 

Cost. It's crazy expensive to hire people just to create a current, high quality text. Then there is the cost of publishing it in a quality manner. Seton is doing it, slow and steadily. CHC is doing it slightly faster, but I also think their science is not quite as good as Seton's in amount covered, depth of coverage and quality printing. (I deplore the high gloss spiral bound worktext. It's a nightmare to erase on and elementary children are not the easiest on any book, doubly a spiral bound one.). Though CHC has more experiments that easy to do at home, Seton covers the materials better. I think comparing CHC/Seton science is very much like comparing their English. CHC was extremely easy for my kids, which certainly made it more fun at times. Seton was often harder, but they also seems to enjoy the overall challenge of it more. I adored seton health books for 5th and 6th grade. Which reminds me that I need to buy those this year!

 

There are two publishers of catholic science texts. Lepanto prints updated black and white no frills added science texts for Catholics. Think what was used in catholic schools in the 50s when there were a lot more catholic schools around to invest in publishing. (And I literally just forgot the other one. Sigh. I hope my kids appreciate all the brain cells I've donated to them. :/ )

 

I don't know about Seton, but Kolbe's lesson plans come with discussion as to how to present the secular science in a "church appropriate" fashion - what points are considered valid by the church, what isn't, and discussion points, from what I understand.

And CHC does have a fantastic science program - completely Catholic.

 

Seton's plans also do that.

 

CHC science is very pretty to look at. I view their science as a spring board. I don't think they intend it to be on its own, but more like a jump start into the topics presented. Which is very Charlotte mason and living books and I like that.

[PachiSusan]

*chuckle*

I believe I"m the one who recommended them to you a few months ago (or one who did so, lol).

Unfortunately they only go up to grade 6 right now; their grade 7 is life science and we aren't interested in doing life science next year (we've used CHC science before).

 

 

Ha ha ha!!! Aimme - I remember now. We were talking about your daughter and how Seton's history was really hard for her because of the "catholicity" of it.

 

I did know about Behold and See before, but yes you reminded me about it too!! :)

[Murphy101]

 

*chuckle*

I believe I"m the one who recommended them to you a few months ago (or one who did so, lol).

Unfortunately they only go up to grade 6 right now; their grade 7 is life science and we aren't interested in doing life science next year (we've used CHC science before).

 

LOL. My kids have really liked Seton's 7th grade science. And I completely agree that I'd use CHC over Fulbright/apologia

[Murphy101]

One of my exceptions is BJU. If they were the only curriculum around and I literally had no other options - I'd rather my kids be ignorant. They make the anti catholic bias in the other providers look like cozy affection.

[AimeeM]

One of my exceptions is BJU. If they were the only curriculum around and I literally had no other options - I'd rather my kids be ignorant. They make the anti catholic bias in the other providers look like cozy affection.

Lol. I literally live down the street from BJU, their private schools, and their publisher. I walked into their homeschool book store one day, when I first moved here, not realizing it was owned by them.

Gah.

[AimeeM]

LOL. My kids have really liked Seton's 7th grade science. And I completely agree that I'd use CHC over Fulbright/apologia

I was looking at that actually. Thus far my dd hasn't enjoyed much by Seton, but it looks pretty darn good.

 

My only concern is that it doesn't really look like a full year course. She's pretty science heavy (in interest and study). While the material looks good, it doesn't look like it would even last a semester compared to some of the other programs.

[Murphy101]

 

I was looking at that actually. Thus far my dd hasn't enjoyed much by Seton, but it looks pretty darn good.

 

It's one of their better ones. My boys enjoyed it and now my just turned 12 year old has been enjoying it. It's packed with practical doable activities. I suggest makes a list of science supply items a few weeks in advance.

[Haiku]

The thing that jumped out at me is that you said you wanted to use a fully integrated Catholic curriculum. If Seton's choices are from companies that are anti-Catholic, then it is not a fully integrated Catholic curriculum. It is a curriculum put out by a Catholic company that has some Catholic components to it.

 

IMO, you'd be better off using a secular program like K12 and adding in your religious viewpoints.

 

Tara

[AimeeM]

The thing that jumped out at me is that you said you wanted to use a fully integrated Catholic curriculum. If Seton's choices are from companies that are anti-Catholic, then it is not a fully integrated Catholic curriculum. It is a curriculum put out by a Catholic company that has some Catholic components to it.

 

IMO, you'd be better off using a secular program like K12 and adding in your religious viewpoints.

 

Tara

CHC is probably the only fully Catholic company I know of, pre k-8.

Kolbe doesn't use any anti-Catholic texts, but it uses tons of secular texts, simply adding in catholic viewpoints and integrating that into every subject; which is why many a secular homeschooler uses them as well, lol.

[Murphy101]

Our Lady of Victory is just as fully catholic as CHC. Maybe more so K-8. Iirc, i might be in error, only math and a maps workbook are not catholic.

[Murphy101]

I have really been empresses by their cursive and spelling. I'm interested in their religion and science for younger grades.

[Ameena]

Our Lady of the Rosary school is fully Catholic too, but you have to enroll to get materials. :(

[PachiSusan]

The thing that jumped out at me is that you said you wanted to use a fully integrated Catholic curriculum. If Seton's choices are from companies that are anti-Catholic, then it is not a fully integrated Catholic curriculum. It is a curriculum put out by a Catholic company that has some Catholic components to it.

 

IMO, you'd be better off using a secular program like K12 and adding in your religious viewpoints.

 

Tara

 

Actually, Seton is quite the Catholic Immersion - believe me. LOL Every single subject is infused with Catholic teaching and thought. The only thing that is not expressly Catholic is some of the science texts and the Math texts after 4th grade. However, you DO have the option to use some very old fashioned Catholic School Texts from the 50's and 60's for Math. I'd rather do Saxon. ;)

 

It's actually a Catholic Curriculum with some secular components.

[PachiSusan]

One of my exceptions is BJU. If they were the only curriculum around and I literally had no other options - I'd rather my kids be ignorant. They make the anti catholic bias in the other providers look like cozy affection.

 

I agree with you. I can't abide by BJU even if they were the only curriculum. The venom and vitriol they have put into the universe about us Catholics blows. me. away.

[Syllieann]

The belief system of a provider is very important to me if we are talking about something that is written to include those beliefs. I'm sure there are many authors of secular books that don't share my view but that's fine with me since their view isn't included in the material. I prefer things that are either religiously in line with my beliefs or else secular. I might use Protestant materials if there was no other good option and it didn't hugely affect the actual material. For instance, phonics, math, and spelling come to mind as possibilities but history and science would probably be out of the question. I agree with others about bju though, not if it were the only thing on the planet.

 

Quick aside, I had looked at, and then dismissed seton science after I saw that they use the ye apologia materials. I was concerned that their other stuff may have ye leanings as well. Can anyone tell me if the seton-published science has anything ye-ish?

[PachiSusan]

The belief system of a provider is very important to me if we are talking about something that is written to include those beliefs. I'm sure there are many authors of secular books that don't share my view but that's fine with me since their view isn't included in the material. I prefer things that are either religiously in line with my beliefs or else secular. I might use Protestant materials if there was no other good option and it didn't hugely affect the actual material. For instance, phonics, math, and spelling come to mind as possibilities but history and science would probably be out of the question. I agree with others about bju though, not if it were the only thing on the planet.

 

Quick aside, I had looked at, and then dismissed seton science after I saw that they use the ye apologia materials. I was concerned that their other stuff may have ye leanings as well. Can anyone tell me if the seton-published science has anything ye-ish?

 

 

I am only up to the 4th grade materials, and there is NONE in the Seton Published science that I've used. There is a 7th grade one that people have used and I'll count on them to chime in on those.

[Murphy101]

I don't *think* seton has anything YE or old earth, but I'll check tomorrow. (I have a baby drooling into my shirt as my right arm goes numb at the moment. :) )

[PachiSusan]

I don't *think* seton has anything YE or old earth, but I'll check tomorrow. (I have a baby drooling into my shirt as my right arm goes numb at the moment. :) )

 

I seem to remember reading something about them saying that since the church has not proclaimed what we "must" believe, they are not espousing either viewpoint, but that one should read the information and make an informed decision.

[NASDAQ]

At the moment we only use secular or Jewish curriculum. I will read them books from the Christian perspective, but nothing from the stuff marketed to home schoolers. Not worth the editing when there are other options.

 

I have to say that I would be seriously concerned with any company that advocated Apologia. I just can't get behind that approach to science, and I seriously wonder whether, in terms of preparing my kids for college, it's better than nothing.

[Butter]

To me, the difference is between a company sharing their beliefs, and a company putting down the beliefs of others. I'm an atheist, I don't really have a dog in the fight. I don't mind editing as I go with something like story of the world, but I don't want to support a company "spitting venom" like Apologia is. I feel like you can live your faith without using your company as a platform to hurt others who are tying to also live their faith.

JMHO.

 

 

This. I do not care if a company believes Mormons are evil or not Christian. As long as they keep that to themselves and don't go trashing the religion in public and try to become the definitive authority on what it means to be Christian. I don't have a problem trashing Mormonim *if it is in context of something that makes sense.* For example, when talking about the trek west or the settling of UT. Sure, I'd prefer just facts, not editorializing, but I can understand it then. When it's wrapped up in math word problems (Sarah witnessed to four Mormons and Jeff witnessed to six Mormons. How many previously damned souls did Sarah and Jeff save?) or some other such nonsense, it's not okay to me (actually, in general, any God mention for the sake of being able to say "hey, we're a Christian company" annoys me).

 

As for your specific Seton conundrum, why don't you call and talk to them? Ask why, if Apologia is not Catholic-friendly and will openly trash religions tht aren't just like them, they use them. It could open up an important dialog in their own company.

[PachiSusan]

 

As for your specific Seton conundrum, why don't you call and talk to them? Ask why, if Apologia is not Catholic-friendly and will openly trash religions tht aren't just like them, they use them. It could open up an important dialog in their own company.

 

 

I have never heard Apologia go off on Catholics - but if they are willing to go so far on the Mormons, I'm sure if I dug far enough, I'd find some.

 

And actually, I am crafting up an email about just this and I am praying on what exactly I feel needs to be said.

 

I do not feel that using this for one subject negates me using Seton...I will simply not use it as an alternate.

[sueh16]

Hi Susan,

 

Just a couple of quick questions for you. Didn't you already buy CHC science to use next year? Why not try it instead of Apologia along with the rest of Seton's fifth grade curriculum and see how it goes? Also, why not call Seton, tell them your concerns and find out why they chose Apologia in the 1st place? IKWYM about not wanting to buy curriculum from a provider who is in direct conflict with your beliefs.

 

I just thought of one more thing. If you want a program that is 100% Catholic you could check out CHC's complete curriculum, but you would have to do the grading yourself because they don't have an enrollment option.

 

Best of luck with your decision,

Sue

 

Oops. Just saw that someone else also recommended that you call Seton. Sorry for the repetition.

[stripe]

I don't pay much attention to their belief systems. I also don't look into what the belief system of the owners of JCPenney, Culvers, Pizza Hut, Target, SuperOne, and every other place I spend money. I am a busy mom and I simply have higher priorities for my time. Right or wrong it is what it is.

I generally feel this way but smetimes a company will make a very loud public statement about some issue that I find offensive, and that causes me to avoid their company. It is the case right now that I am avoiding a particular store because I was displeased with a public action they took. Otherwise I don't delve. But when they make news (this is not Chick Fil A related!) and make public statements, I react in kind.

[Hunter]

 

Is this in High School? I haven't really researched a whole lot on my options at that point. For all we know, I might finally grow a pair and design my own curriculum by then!!! LOL

 

 

 

It's not braver to design your own curriculum; sometimes it's just arrogant or foolhardy to do so. Correspondence schools are an important option that are sometimes the best or only reasonable option for some families/students. You are a smart lady. Trusting yourself to know when a correspondence course IS the best option, can be braver than picking your own curriculum.

 

I was ploughing along full of youthful pep and arrogance when I started homeschooling my youngest, but when I later brought my oldest home, we used American School for him start to finish. The choice had nothing to do with bravery. :lol: It was just the right option for HIM. In fact it was the PERFECT fit for him.

 

A book I like about a family that used Calvert and American School start to finish for the whole family is No Regrets. You might like that book.

[stripe]

It's not braver to design your own curriculum; sometimes it's just arrogant or foolhardy to do so.

 

 

I think it's a common perception in American society that doing what is expected means you have not given it any thought whatsoever.

 

I found myself nearly quoting you yesterday, Hunter, about the idea of getting something imperfect done is better than not doing the perfect thing. Clearly I need to study your phrasing more closely! But I am with you in spirit.

[Murphy101]

It's not braver to design your own curriculum; sometimes it's just arrogant or foolhardy to do so. Correspondence schools are an important option that are sometimes the best or only reasonable option for some families/students. You are a smart lady. Trusting yourself to know when a correspondence course IS the best option, can be braver than picking your own curriculum.

I was ploughing along full of youthful pep and arrogance when I started homeschooling my youngest, but when I later brought my oldest home, we used American School for him start to finish. The choice had nothing to do with bravery. :lol: It was just the right option for HIM. In fact it was the PERFECT fit for him.

A book I like about a family that used Calvert and American School start to finish for the whole family is No Regrets. You might like that book.

 

That is a good book to get one started really thinking about the affect of diligence and being consistency.

 

I would love to create a fully catholic curriculum. I don't think it is a brave issue, I think I have 10 kids and am currently home schooling them! So you know, I'll hope right on that in my spare time. lololololol

[Murphy101]

I'm of a different perspective. I didn't read the apologia/mormon whatever.

 

I have no problem with them stating they believe that Mormons aren't Christians. There's people who think that of Catholics too. I think they are wrong in that belief, but really I'm catholic because I believe it to be true, so that in itself means I don't think x, y, or z is true. Follow my logic there?

 

However, it is one thing to say I don't believe x, y, or z because of a, b, c reasons.

 

It's quite another thing entirely to say x, y, or z is going to burn in hell because they are the the fruetz of the debil.

 

One is a belief I don't agree with. Maybe I can point out that a, b, c, reasons are unfounded or misguided or simply agree to disagree.

 

The other is just hateful and I am not interested in supporting that.

[*Lulu*]

 

I generally feel this way but smetimes a company will make a very loud public statement about some issue that I find offensive, and that causes me to avoid their company. It is the case right now that I am avoiding a particular store because I was displeased with a public action they took. Otherwise I don't delve. But when they make news (this is not Chick Fil A related!) and make public statements, I react in kind.

 

Yes!

 

When I research a curriculum I am looking to see if the method of instruction and material is the best fit for my students not at what the publisher believes. When a publisher, or any other business owner, goes out of thier way to broadcast thier beliefs I can't help but notice and respond in a way consistent with my core values.

 

That is why BJU materials have never been even considered for our family, DH and I went to university just down the road from BJU and could never use them after what we witnessed and learned about them during that time.

 

[Murphy101]

Now. Back to Seton. I believe another poster already noted that apologia and Abeka very much have the market cornered on affordable, mom friendly, science, especially for high school. That is very true. I swore up and down that I wouldn't use either. Then I got to high school and dang if what people told me about the limits of made for home schooling moms curriculia wasn't true. Dern it. Sucks. To make it worse? Somehow a mother who sucks at math and never made is past health and PE in high school has managed to create 4 sons who are going to need more than basic science sans labs to get their professions going. So it's really not an option to just coast on this subject. (Though that really isn't my style anyways tbh.)

 

So here I am. Abeka and apologia on the shelf and their experiment kits purchased from home science tools. If it matters, I at least by used. Sigh. It doesn't.

 

I truely think this is the real reason seton offers apologia and Abeka. When I spoke to them about it two years ago, the science counselor was pretty frank about it. They don't like using them either, but it's the least counter catholic option that home schoolers can easily use. And that's why Seton is slowly but steadily working on putting out their own stuff. And I will admit, once they put something out, it's usually very well done and well edited too. But until they get that done, the current market isn't making much available in science that an unconfident mom will feel comfortable using.

 

My wish? I wish that the Catholic School Textbook Project that has been making excellent history texts recently would take on publishing science texts.

 

As for seton science 7, I'm looking through it know just to sure. Nothing about young earth or old earth is mentioned at all. Nada. The closest it ever comes near the end on p 172. When discussing the law of conservation of matter and energy. It explains the law is that energy can neither be created nor destroyed by ordinary means. Then goes on to say science doesn't have the answer to why the energy in the universe seems to remain the same or why matter remains and does not disappear. Then the text suggests a possible answer is in the bible.

 

"In the first place, the Bible tells us God rested on the seventh day of Creation. This suggests that God stopped creating - which accounts for" [energy remaining the same.]

 

And secondly

 

St Paul explained that "God is upholding all things by the word of His power." thus keeping things going.

 

I would not agree with statement one bc it borders on dispensationalism, but I wouldn't consider either of those references YE or old earth.

 

[Syllieann]

Thank you for checking Martha. I don't consider that ye either. Knowing that seton science is an option is quite comforting. It sounds like im not the only one frustrated with the lack of easy to use, affordable options.

[laughing lioness]

One of the things I really appreciate about Peace Hill Press, Memoria Press and Wile's High School texts (that he wrote) is the lack of pedantically served up doctrine. Apologia has changed- imho the handwriting was on the wall a couple of years ago when they changed their name to "Apologia Ministries" etc. And it comes through in the texts. They are preachy and in some cases the history is smodged just a bit to prove a doctrinal point- which is crazy because truth doesn't need a push- it substantiates itself.

 

I give some credence to curriculum providers belief systems because I think that education is the transmission of culture. Curriculum companies that bash or are condescending to others, or ministries that do so, are so far off my list. I might (or might not) like thier material but I don't want my $ going to support that carp.

[AimeeM]

That is a good book to get one started really thinking about the affect of diligence and being consistency.

 

I would love to create a fully catholic curriculum. I don't think it is a brave issue, I think I have 10 kids and am currently home schooling them! So you know, I'll hope right on that in my spare time. lololololol

 

When you get to it (lol!!! Right?), please don't use outdated science texts! Pet peeve of mine with some curricula (like MODG).

 

And I agree about CSTP writing science texts. It would be... like a dream come true... lol.

[Saddlemomma]

For me, I will only use material if it follows the CORE CHRISTIAN DOCTRINES. These are:

 

1. The Trinity: God is one "What" and three "Whos" with each "Who" possessing all the attributes of Deity and personality.

2. The Person of Jesus Christ: Jesus is 100% God and 100% man for all eternity.

3. The Second Coming: Jesus Christ is coming bodily to earth to rule and judge.

4. Salvation: It is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

5. The Scripture: It is entirely inerrant and sufficient for all Christian life.

 

You can find these in a book called The Fundamentals.

 

If a curriculum I choose teaches one minor doctrine for which I disagree, then I'll teach both the doctrine in the book as well as the doctrine I believe (for example YE vs. OE - I'll throw in evolution as well so my dd has all the info and can determine what she thinks is the best evidence). I don't care if the company believes in pre-trib rapture; mid-trib; post-trib; or no-trib -- as long as they adhere to the core doctrine. In other words, I believe that anything other than the above-mentioned core doctrines is minor squabbling between denominations and not worthy of discounting curriculum over.

 

Both Catholics and Protestants believe and agree upon these 5 common cores.

 

I hope this helps.

[AimeeM]

For me, I will only use material if it follows the CORE CHRISTIAN DOCTRINES. These are:

 

1. The Trinity: God is one "What" and three "Whos" with each "Who" possessing all the attributes of Deity and personality.

2. The Person of Jesus Christ: Jesus is 100% God and 100% man for all eternity.

3. The Second Coming: Jesus Christ is coming bodily to earth to rule and judge.

4. Salvation: It is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

5. The Scripture: It is entirely inerrant and sufficient for all Christian life.

 

You can find these in a book called The Fundamentals.

 

If a curriculum I choose teaches one minor doctrine for which I disagree, then I'll teach both the doctrine in the book as well as the doctrine I believe (for example YE vs. OE - I'll throw in evolution as well so my dd has all the info and can determine what she thinks is the best evidence). I don't care if the company believes in pre-trib rapture; mid-trib; post-trib; or no-trib -- as long as they adhere to the core doctrine. In other words, I believe that anything other than the above-mentioned core doctrines is minor squabbling between denominations and not worthy of discounting curriculum over.

 

Both Catholics and Protestants believe and agree upon these 5 common cores.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Catholics are not sola fide (in the protestant definition) and Catholics are not sola scriptura.

[Chelli]

For me, I will only use material if it follows the CORE CHRISTIAN DOCTRINES. These are:

 

1. The Trinity: God is one "What" and three "Whos" with each "Who" possessing all the attributes of Deity and personality.

2. The Person of Jesus Christ: Jesus is 100% God and 100% man for all eternity.

3. The Second Coming: Jesus Christ is coming bodily to earth to rule and judge.

4. Salvation: It is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

5. The Scripture: It is entirely inerrant and sufficient for all Christian life.

 

You can find these in a book called The Fundamentals.

 

If a curriculum I choose teaches one minor doctrine for which I disagree, then I'll teach both the doctrine in the book as well as the doctrine I believe (for example YE vs. OE - I'll throw in evolution as well so my dd has all the info and can determine what she thinks is the best evidence). I don't care if the company believes in pre-trib rapture; mid-trib; post-trib; or no-trib -- as long as they adhere to the core doctrine. In other words, I believe that anything other than the above-mentioned core doctrines is minor squabbling between denominations and not worthy of discounting curriculum over.

 

Both Catholics and Protestants believe and agree upon these 5 common cores.

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

What I bolded above is NOT true. I would fall under the Protestant heading and I don't believe in two of the things on your list.

[Murphy101]

When you get to it (lol!!! Right?), please don't use outdated science texts! Pet peeve of mine with some curricula (like MODG).

And I agree about CSTP writing science texts. It would be... like a dream come true... lol.

 

 

No, I don't use outdated texts. Which is why it's that much harder to find science.

 

And I totally agree. CSTP science would be fabulous.. *drool*

[Spy Car]

My feeling is you vote for what kind of world you want to live when you spend your money. Money spent on materials from a hateful publishing house is a small vote for perpetuating a more hateful world.

 

This is aside from the other problem of Apologia's infidelity to basic fundamentals of science, and the insertion of scientifically-unsupported theological positions in place of valid science. Teaching children from Apologia's books does their education a grave disservice.

 

Bill

[TracyP]

I generally feel this way but smetimes a company will make a very loud public statement about some issue that I find offensive, and that causes me to avoid their company. It is the case right now that I am avoiding a particular store because I was displeased with a public action they took. Otherwise I don't delve. But when they make news (this is not Chick Fil A related!) and make public statements, I react in kind.

 

 

This is exactly what I was trying to say. I don't have time to search out this information, while I will take the time to find out what they teach/sell/etc. depending on the store in question. I do take offensive views into consideration when they happen to make the news or the boards, lol. Therefore, I am probably not very consistent. ;)

[Jay3fer]

I would not buy new curriculum from a company that hates "my people" whomever my people may be. That seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

On the other hand, if you're Jewish, this could mean not buying anything, or settling for a terrible secular curriculum.

 

Okay, not hates, as in open antisemitism, but believes you and your little homeschooled disciples are doomed, believes your religion has been superseded, or believes you are a small army of pawns in another religion's plan of how the end times will go down - well, that's the majority of Christian publishers out there, even the ones that say they love the Jewish people.

 

Nonetheless, I have been known to buy Christian curriculum, even from companies with belief systems that strongly exclude me, because there isn't much choice. The good stuff is often faith-based, so I have to make these difficult choices every day. In some cases, I appreciate companies' sensitivity (Peace Hill Press); in others, we have had to drop the curriculum (Apologia).

[PachiSusan]

Catholics are not sola fide (in the protestant definition) and Catholics are not sola scriptura.

 

 

Thank you for answering this for us. I was going to come back to it today when I had the computer but you beat me to it! :)

[PachiSusan]

Hi Susan,

 

Just a couple of quick questions for you. Didn't you already buy CHC science to use next year? Why not try it instead of Apologia along with the rest of Seton's fifth grade curriculum and see how it goes? Also, why not call Seton, tell them your concerns and find out why they chose Apologia in the 1st place? IKWYM about not wanting to buy curriculum from a provider who is in direct conflict with your beliefs.

 

I just thought of one more thing. If you want a program that is 100% Catholic you could check out CHC's complete curriculum, but you would have to do the grading yourself because they don't have an enrollment option.

 

Best of luck with your decision,

Sue

 

Oops. Just saw that someone else also recommended that you call Seton. Sorry for the repetition.

 

 

Yes Sue, I did. I will be using CHC Science in place of their Rod and Staff Science this year. I am getting both books and using CHC as the main text and teaching whatever it doesn't have in it for the tests and grade. I am no longer going to be using Apologia and I'm hoping that by the time she gets into High School that they will have changed their choice. If not, I will probably be doing science apart from Seton's purview.

 

As to why Seton uses it - I seem to remember that they chose it because it was so home school friendly and Christian in bent.

[Murphy101]

I sent a message about the Apologia blog to Seton admissions with my concerns. I would have linked to the blog, but either their site doesn't allow that, or my iPad wouldn't let me.

[PachiSusan]

I generally feel this way but smetimes a company will make a very loud public statement about some issue that I find offensive, and that causes me to avoid their company. It is the case right now that I am avoiding a particular store because I was displeased with a public action they took. Otherwise I don't delve. But when they make news (this is not Chick Fil A related!) and make public statements, I react in kind.

 

 

I have a few places I feel this way about as well and follow through.

[PachiSusan]

It's not braver to design your own curriculum; sometimes it's just arrogant or foolhardy to do so. Correspondence schools are an important option that are sometimes the best or only reasonable option for some families/students. You are a smart lady. Trusting yourself to know when a correspondence course IS the best option, can be braver than picking your own curriculum.

 

I was ploughing along full of youthful pep and arrogance when I started homeschooling my youngest, but when I later brought my oldest home, we used American School for him start to finish. The choice had nothing to do with bravery. :lol: It was just the right option for HIM. In fact it was the PERFECT fit for him.

 

A book I like about a family that used Calvert and American School start to finish for the whole family is No Regrets. You might like that book.

 

 

Thank you - I'll check that out!

 

I don't think it's "more brave" or somehow better on the contiuum if I plan my own -just that I am very used to and count on the "box" - maybe too much.

[PachiSusan]

I think it's a common perception in American society that doing what is expected means you have not given it any thought whatsoever.

 

I found myself nearly quoting you yesterday, Hunter, about the idea of getting something imperfect done is better than not doing the perfect thing. Clearly I need to study your phrasing more closely! But I am with you in spirit.

 

 

I know!! I think I've given TOO MUCH thought to this at times. Sometimes things just ARE and you live your life...

[PachiSusan]

That is a good book to get one started really thinking about the affect of diligence and being consistency.

 

I would love to create a fully catholic curriculum. I don't think it is a brave issue, I think I have 10 kids and am currently home schooling them! So you know, I'll hope right on that in my spare time. lololololol

 

 

I think I just had an anxiety attack thinking of home educating 10 kids at once!!! :party: :party:

 

You are my hero!

[PachiSusan]

 

One is a belief I don't agree with. Maybe I can point out that a, b, c, reasons are unfounded or misguided or simply agree to disagree.

 

The other is just hateful and I am not interested in supporting that.

 

 

Yes, this!

[PachiSusan]

When a publisher, or any other business owner, goes out of thier way to broadcast thier beliefs I can't help but notice and respond in a way consistent with my core values.

 

 

Yes, this is how I feel as well.

[PachiSusan]

Now. Back to Seton. I believe another poster already noted that apologia and Abeka very much have the market cornered on affordable, mom friendly, science, especially for high school. That is very true. I swore up and down that I wouldn't use either. Then I got to high school and dang if what people told me about the limits of made for home schooling moms curriculia wasn't true. Dern it. Sucks. To make it worse? Somehow a mother who sucks at math and never made is past health and PE in high school has managed to create 4 sons who are going to need more than basic science sans labs to get their professions going. So it's really not an option to just coast on this subject. (Though that really isn't my style anyways tbh.)

 

So here I am. Abeka and apologia on the shelf and their experiment kits purchased from home science tools. If it matters, I at least by used. Sigh. It doesn't.

 

I truely think this is the real reason seton offers apologia and Abeka. When I spoke to them about it two years ago, the science counselor was pretty frank about it. They don't like using them either, but it's the least counter catholic option that home schoolers can easily use. And that's why Seton is slowly but steadily working on putting out their own stuff. And I will admit, once they put something out, it's usually very well done and well edited too. But until they get that done, the current market isn't making much available in science that an unconfident mom will feel comfortable using.

 

My wish? I wish that the Catholic School Textbook Project that has been making excellent history texts recently would take on publishing science texts.

 

As for seton science 7, I'm looking through it know just to sure. Nothing about young earth or old earth is mentioned at all. Nada.

 

 

That's pretty much what I remember hearing as to why Seton uses them. There's a video on their website of each grade level. MK Clark is showing and explaining every book in the pack and mentions that Seton and Saxon were because the home school Moms requested it over and over and they finally put it in as an alternate.