A question for those who found 9th grade to be difficult or problematic

[Luckymama]

Homeschooling high school has reentered our radar...

 

I've been reading the "planning for 10th grade" thread and have noticed many comments referencing problems with 9th grade. I would appreciate knowing what those difficulties are/were------scheduling? increased responsibilities? too heavy a workload? personality conflicts?

 

Thanks http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/smile.gif

[Sebastian (a lady)]

A little of all of the above. We started a couple challenging courses at the same time that we increased sports participation.

In particular ds had to cope with the inflexible time demands and deadlines of online Latin and coop lit class. I should have been much more vigilant at the beginning to make sure he was not only getting by but learning good habits. I think workload, maturity and outside demands make this a time for renewed parental oversight not just giving them all independence and letting them fail.

 

If I could go back in time I would solidly nail down science months earlier. Being fluid and still in set up mode put us way behind. I would also start the year with a specific schedule of what needs done. I knew we were slipping but didn't catch on to how much when I should have.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Fwiw our schedule now lists the assignments for the year broken down by week. Each week I transfer that to a weeks schedule that leaves little to the imagination.

 

[kewb]

A little of all of the above. We started a couple challenging courses at the same time that we increased sports participation.

In particular ds had to cope with the inflexible time demands and deadlines of online Latin and coop lit class. I should have been much more vigilant at the beginning to make sure he was not only getting by but learning good habits. I think workload, maturity and outside demands make this a time for renewed parental oversight not just giving them all independence and letting them fail.

 

If I could go back in time I would solidly nail down science months earlier. Being fluid and still in set up mode put us way behind. I would also start the year with a specific schedule of what needs done. I knew we were slipping but didn't catch on to how much when I should have.

 

Similar experience here. Increased sports participation, increased workload, and skating by on old work habits. I think I was expecting too much in terms of what ds would be able to do independently. Also the same with science. I just went back 4 chapters because I realized he was not grasping the material as well as he should. This was where I discovered he skipped 2 sections of a chapter. Everything is making more sense now.

 

I definitely fell down on the scheduling portion, too. I should have made up a weekly schedule from day 1 and insisted we stick to it.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

There is an old saying in classroom teaching that you shouldn't smile until spring. That is probably too extreme but I do plan to be more vigilant in fall next year.

[Julie in MN]

The biggest adjustment for my son was realizing that in high school, the assignment doesn't just go away if it's not done. In the younger years, if we got chatting about one subject, we might not get to another subject, and I would adjust as needed. In high school, that other subject was still waiting to be done, and it took into the summer for him to really get that. I did flex a bit, if he was working hard one something then giving him credit for more, or if he'd rather do something a different way then I would consider it. But doing nothing wasn't an option even if the teacher really enjoyed his conversation :) I felt I had to teach my very lackadaisical youngest child about reality (while also keeping the relationship in various ways such as Bible together).

 

Some of the stepping up in 7-8th grade helped, especially in math - algebra was my son's first big reality check when a course took over an hour every day. But there was still much more wiggle room in those years.

Julie

[Nscribe]

40% Unpredictable/unanticipated - urgent and important occurences which disrupted schedules, diverted attention/created distraction, introduced challenges (community tragedy, illness) - not grade or age specific

 

50% Being a teenager - "boyfriends", testing boundaries, procrastination, social preoccupation, cell phones (texting), hormonal related mood swings (tracking can increase predictability, doesn't necessarily provide solutions but at least not broadsided), demands for independence despite clear evidence of conistent ability to handle all responsiblity without pesky parents, utter lack of life experience to weigh seemingly apparent conclusions in teen world against seasoned wisdom, appearing "grown" without being mature, messy, occupying more space, more expensive tools/toys........

 

10% Personality - strong willed, creative, perfectionistic streaks, sensitive, driven

 

This 100% confronted with higher expectations, deadlines, busy schedule, increased consequences

 

Given that all of these would be there despite where, who or how high school would be accomplished for Dd we might as well let it all play out at home. Dd wants to homeschool (very key), we are able to do it (financially, have access to opportunities and I am willing/able to do what it takes) and the challenges which are due to age/stage will resolve with time, guidance, love, coffee and sometimes patience. Adjust, Adapt, Innovate...sleep and eat.

[coffeegal]

Homeschooling high school has reentered our radar...

 

I've been reading the "planning for 10th grade" thread and have noticed many comments referencing problems with 9th grade. I would appreciate knowing what those difficulties are/were------scheduling? increased responsibilities? too heavy a workload? personality conflicts?

 

Thanks :)

 

It was a combination of factors such as an increased workload, learning to schedule, and maturity. I think the biggest difference is maturity. My 9th graders did/do school still because mom and dad say so. My 10th grader does school because HE needs and wants the education.

[Trilliums]

Last year when DS was in grade 9, I felt an increase in pressure and stress to ensure he was doing work worthy of gaining a high school credit. It is the first year that *counts* as far as high school transcripts are concerned (for most college admissions--I have read that some colleges do not look at grade 9 grades). He took science and engineering classes at the public school and we found that outsourced class work loads took precedent over his at home/self study classes. Math (he self studied geometry and alg 2) was, however, a priority for him, and he did successfully complete both math courses. For his LA and World History courses though, he had a "just get it done" attitude, which I completely understand given his other commitments, but it was kind of a sad turning point for us. Previously we had had the freedom to follow interests and bunny trails, but in grade 9 we felt more pressure to compartmentalize his learning for transcript purposes.

 

This year, grade 10, he ended up enrolling in ps full time. Part of the reason for this was that juggling the hs/ps classes was challenging and the transition between self study and outsourced classes ate up a lot of time. For grade 11 he is still debating what to do but is definitely looking forward to some classes at the University.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

A little of all of the above. We started a couple challenging courses at the same time that we increased sports participation.

In particular ds had to cope with the inflexible time demands and deadlines of online Latin and coop lit class. I should have been much more vigilant at the beginning to make sure he was not only getting by but learning good habits. I think workload, maturity and outside demands make this a time for renewed parental oversight not just giving them all independence and letting them fail.

 

If I could go back in time I would solidly nail down science months earlier. Being fluid and still in set up mode put us way behind. I would also start the year with a specific schedule of what needs done. I knew we were slipping but didn't catch on to how much when I should have.

 

 

To expand a little on nailing down courses. There are often threads about what is the best history/literature/science/math course. I'm more and more of the opinion that while there are courses that are more liked by this or that type of student, a very major factor needs to be which course will you actually get done. A subject that stalls out because you don't have a teacher manual or aren't sure how to grade the subject or don't know how to judge the merits of an essay is a course that just isn't getting done.

 

Along with interest and learning style and pre-requisites, I think you do need to look at if you will spend more time planning than actually engaging with the course. It might be better to choose a less than wonderful course that is fully planned out if that is what it takes to learn from it.

[Nscribe]

 

There are often threads about what is the best history/literature/science/math course. I'm more and more of the opinion that while there are courses that are more liked by this or that type of student, a very major factor needs to be which course will you actually get done.

 

 

And...part of the challenge of 9th grade is figuring out what those will be. Trial and error is sometimes the only real option and that can make things clear.

[elegantlion]

We've ran into a few challenges this year, some student related, more than a few teacher related.

 

student: Like Julie mentioned, ds is having a hard time with assignments. We have a very interactive school, lots of dialogue and in previous years we could deviate on a daily basis more. We still enjoy trails and diversions, but I feel the pressure of making sure there is quantifiable proof of his learning.

 

more and deeper reading: reading speed has been an issue this year. We've had to modify a few subjects where the reading is taking longer than I'd like.

 

distractions - the dog, food, sleep, the cat, lunch, his chair, his hair, his pencil not sharpened, temperature in the school room- all of these things throw him off track.

 

teacher related: Not having plan B and C in place in case something flops. *sigh* We'll be finishing one subject over the summer because I had to find solutions for plan C and D.

 

not realizing how long a lesson might take or thinking they'd understand it without additional helps

 

technical difficulties- we have high speed Internet that can slow down. Videos can take forever to load, or try to buffer in the middle. It can be annoying if the 30 minute video takes an hour to get done. I'm working on queuing up the video well before we need it, giving it time to load.

 

budget concerns: If plan A doesn't work and your budget has already been used, it can be frustrating. I would leave room in the budget for incidentals and changes.

 

While my son has made decent leaps in ability and focus each year, don't expect there to be a giant one just because this is high school. I like planning classes, but I had to reign myself in more than a few times to remember, A. stamina, focus, and ability should be student appropriate, not what I'd like to get done(which is always more), B. the student is going to have 7 credits (in our case) to complete. That means you can't have 7 fully rigorous classes for a student who is borderline apathetic about school in the first place.

[Tullia]

I'd agree with everything you listed and add in hormones and growth spurts. Also, we experienced some troubles caused by a lack of consolidation in a few basic skill areas. Whenever possible, those things need to be identified and addressed before starting high school. As far as curriculum choices go...whatever you choose has to get done and work for both of you. IMO that's especially true if you're pursuing a college prep curriculum. The student needs to generate output that can be documented in some way, and your evaluation and feedback is essential to that process.

[teachermom2834]

Fwiw our schedule now lists the assignments for the year broken down by week. Each week I transfer that to a weeks schedule that leaves little to the imagination.

 

 

This has worked for us. We have a weekly schedule and ds is on his own to pace himself to get it done. If it doesn't get done it makes for a long weekend of work. It has really helped keep us on track though. I have found when things do happen beyond our control that make it impossible to do the work I either look for something that can be eliminated, scaled back, or done orally to keep us on schedule or we spread the work over two weeks so we start a fresh weekly schedule the next week. This has kept us on track instead of neglecting one subject or another. Everything gets done before we move on, or we adapt assignments so we can move on. What doesn't happen is getting bogged down in something or getting really off schedule.

[bobbeym]

Everything the pp already said. I think maturity on top of the increased workload is a huge factor at this age.

 

We had a weekly schedule but I overestimated DS's ability to self-manage his time and understimated DH's ability to keep up with his part of parental oversight and grading. By the time I figured out there was a problem, we were weeks behind where we should have been. DS essentially restarted both Algebra and Science since the beginning of the school year, and I think it's going to take us most of the summer to truly catch up. We've gone back to daily assignment blocks and things still aren't getting done when and how they should.

[Rebel Yell]

To expand a little on nailing down courses. There are often threads about what is the best history/literature/science/math course. I'm more and more of the opinion that while there are courses that are more liked by this or that type of student, a very major factor needs to be which course will you actually get done. A subject that stalls out because you don't have a teacher manual or aren't sure how to grade the subject or don't know how to judge the merits of an essay is a course that just isn't getting done.

 

Along with interest and learning style and pre-requisites, I think you do need to look at if you will spend more time planning than actually engaging with the course. It might be better to choose a less than wonderful course that is fully planned out if that is what it takes to learn from it.

 

:hurray: :iagree: :hurray: :iagree: :hurray: :iagree: :hurray: :iagree: :hurray:

 

I REEEEEAAAALLLLLY wish I had learned this before Diamond got to high school. We're doing OK enough, but i wish I'd known....

[TammyS]

should have made up a weekly schedule from day 1 and insisted we stick to it.

 

This. Everything being fluid was an invitation to be slippery and find reasons that it didn't have to be done today. Finally, over our Thanksgiving break, I sat down (for like 2 days) and wrote out the weekly schedule for the rest of the year until June, including breaks/holidays. That has helped tremendously because now people just KNOW it's school time and there is no hoping that there will be a good reason that it won't be. Even when a sick day occasionally needs to be taken, I make it clear that we aren't pushing the school year out farther. The work has to be made up, usually by the end of the next week I want everything fully caught up, even it means working on weekends and evenings. This has caused the "mom, I don't feel goods" to be answered by "well, so bad that you want to catch up this weekend?".

[Luckymama]

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences! They confirm my suspicions, based on reading I've done here for the past few years :)

 

I don't know what we'll do for high school. Dd said she's sad about next year being her last for homeschooling, then the very next day dh brought up the idea of homeschooling high school :eek:

[Nan in Mass]

We found it to be difficult. It required a step up. I shoved and pushed the older one up the step. With the younger one, I did a better job of building a ramp. Each subject took a step about then:

 

Math - Algebra was when I really cracked down on making them show their work and be able to explain why they did something. The problem sets started taking long. The lessons took longer, by the time we had gone over any problems they'd missed and all the odd situations were covered as well as whatever new rule or technique. Math suddenly took 1 1/2 or 2 hours a day instead of 1/2 hr. Just as it should be, but a step up. The algebra itself was no problem - it was the time and the showing of work.

 

Foreign languages - This is when they had to start using the language and when they started a new language as well. For older, it was when we started reading more "real" Latin. For the youngest, it was when he started using his French to do history and when he stared having to write essays in French.

 

Language arts - This is when older began doing TWEM and when I began expecting both older and younger to write longer, more organized papers, often of a particular type. They needed to put the holes on the left and the big margin on the top. Sigh. They needed to be able to use a word processor and type easily. They needed to be able to use the library and do an internet search without catching viruses.

 

Science - This is when they began having to do much more adult reading, when they had to learn to keep an adult-level nature journal, when they had to learn to write up an experiment properly, etc. A little later, they needed to have good study skills in order to tackle a science textbook. They needed to learn to write a summary and to make an oral presentation. They needed to know a lot of basic information that they might or might not have remembered from when they met it earlier, like the order of the rainbow and the Pythagorian theorum and what temperature water boils at.

 

History - This was when they needed to be able to read several sources and combine them into a report, when they had to be able to look at several primary sources and put them together to form some sort of conclusion. They really fought against what felt like (and really was at this level) guessing. They needed to be able to pick out the main points. They needed to be able to write an organized paper. They needed to learn to site their sources.

 

Drawing - They needed to use this for science now.

 

Music - I wanted them to be able to sight sing. They were not at all sure they wanted to be able to sight sing and they were still struggling with unstable voices and not enthusiastic about singing simple beginning things like The Monkey Chased the Weasel.

 

Did we do any of this earlier than 9th? Yes. Of course. But if they couldn't really pull it off or they didn't do a good job, I let it slide. I'm glad I didn't push them earlier but it did mean that 9th grade, when I expected their work to LOOK good and arrive in a conventional format AS WELL AS contain good information, was a bit of a struggle while they got used to the new expectations. With the youngest, I did a much better job of keeping the panic out of my voice when I told him his assignment was completely unacceptable in its current format, that he had only followed a small part the directions, that I really did mean it when I asked him to do such a stupid thing, that he had to do it even if it was boring, that he had to follow the directions even if he had a better idea, and that he had to try and come up with something, anything, even if it was hard and taking forever.

 

I had children who wanted to homeschool and the resources to do things like order history books to be shipped from France, take science and writing at the community college, and send children traveling overseas. If I hadn't been able to provide a rich education at home, one that offered the child a bigger world than our local school system, I would have thought twice about homeschooling. Our local public school is excellent (for a school grin). Homeschooling was a ton of work and there were definately disadvantages. My children wouldn't be who they are if they hadn't homeschooled, though, and I like who they turned out to be. : )

 

Nan

[Butter]

Melody's problem was caused by me. I picked the wrong stuff for her. Plain and simple. She did Calvert School before high school and that was perfect and all planned out. And easy for me. Once we figured out what would work for her we have had no problems.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Nan these are lovely comments. I think sometimes I get frustrated because one of my sons isn't operating like a 26 yo grad student and I forget that there is both process and content in development.

 

And it is easy to forget that I not only love my sons but like them too. ETA: I need to make sure that they realize that I do like them.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I think the problem in our house is much of what everyone else has mentioned.

 

We have added outside courses that are no longer just for fun or a chance to socialize but for credit and grades that will impact the future. We've added outside activities (extra-curriculars) that have increased time and responsibility demands. I'm more demanding about completion of assignments and timetables. Add to that the normal growth and development of a teen and you have a huge mess. The faster pace, heavier work load, and outside criticism are all somewhat new and challenging.

 

Solutions we have tried...a quiet study area away from noisy younger siblings balanced with time supervised by mom when subjects or time management become problematic, having a planner, having a weekly itemized check list of the week's work and any previous work still to be completed, a master 4 year planner in which I record activities and assignments completed so that time management can be applied to the work load (and a helpful record for later), use of a timer to break the day into workable blocks and teach time management, a set schedule for the day by the hour, personal responsibility for communications with teachers, coaches and clubs, and we are back to mom being much more involved in daily assignments. Most importantly I have to remember to not plan activities, chores, or other distractions that will take her off track. I can derail a day by not correcting an assignment on time or by following a rabbit trail that could wait and be dinner conversation or any one of a number of my own actions-I need to keep myself as much or more on track than I did when she was little.

 

What I need to remember is how punishing this is on my teen. She still needs lots of sleep, regular meals, time to relax, time and methods of maintaining friendships and making new friends, time with her parents not her teachers, and some fun. I tend to forget that all of this is part of growing up. That her development into a successful adult isn't solely dependent on completing education; it may be the top priority and the greatest demand on her time but she still needs sports, friendship, hobbies, faith, family, and relaxation to become the well-rounded, well-educated, responsible, caring adult I hope to know in the future. (I'm sure my kids would laugh themselves silly over this statement and wonder when the mom with these opinions will surface because they'd like to meet her.)

 

One other important point to remember is that many students entering 9th grade go through a phase like this (as do many college freshmen). This is not a phenomenon exclusive to homeschooling. The biggest difference in my view so far is that homeschooling has less peer pressure, less competition, and less socializing. These are all advantages and disadvantages. While my dd has less pressure from peers as far as clothing, make-up, social life, coolest cell phone, distractions in class, etc., she also has no classmates to push her to excel in a given subject or on a given assignment, she has no basis for knowing how much or how little time and effort her peers put into their work or what it takes to succeed (or fail) in a group setting, she exchanges daily pleasantries and gossip with her brothers and her parents but rarely has daily peer contact. There is good and bad on both sides and I have yet to discover how to achieve a balance.

 

It is hard but it is also a wonderful time, both academically and personally, to share with your kid.

[Nan in Mass]

I think the problem in our house is much of what everyone else has mentioned.

 

We have added outside courses that are no longer just for fun or a chance to socialize but for credit and grades that will impact the future. We've added outside activities (extra-curriculars) that have increased time and responsibility demands. I'm more demanding about completion of assignments and timetables. Add to that the normal growth and development of a teen and you have a huge mess. The faster pace, heavier work load, and outside criticism are all somewhat new and challenging.

 

Solutions we have tried...a quiet study area away from noisy younger siblings balanced with time supervised by mom when subjects or time management become problematic, having a planner, having a weekly itemized check list of the week's work and any previous work still to be completed, a master 4 year planner in which I record activities and assignments completed so that time management can be applied to the work load (and a helpful record for later), use of a timer to break the day into workable blocks and teach time management, a set schedule for the day by the hour, personal responsibility for communications with teachers, coaches and clubs, and we are back to mom being much more involved in daily assignments. Most importantly I have to remember to not plan activities, chores, or other distractions that will take her off track. I can derail a day by not correcting an assignment on time or by following a rabbit trail that could wait and be dinner conversation or any one of a number of my own actions-I need to keep myself as much or more on track than I did when she was little.

 

What I need to remember is how punishing this is on my teen. She still needs lots of sleep, regular meals, time to relax, time and methods of maintaining friendships and making new friends, time with her parents not her teachers, and some fun. I tend to forget that all of this is part of growing up. That her development into a successful adult isn't solely dependent on completing education; it may be the top priority and the greatest demand on her time but she still needs sports, friendship, hobbies, faith, family, and relaxation to become the well-rounded, well-educated, responsible, caring adult I hope to know in the future. (I'm sure my kids would laugh themselves silly over this statement and wonder when the mom with these opinions will surface because they'd like to meet her.)

 

One other important point to remember is that many students entering 9th grade go through a phase like this (as do many college freshmen). This is not a phenomenon exclusive to homeschooling. The biggest difference in my view so far is that homeschooling has less peer pressure, less competition, and less socializing. These are all advantages and disadvantages. While my dd has less pressure from peers as far as clothing, make-up, social life, coolest cell phone, distractions in class, etc., she also has no classmates to push her to excel in a given subject or on a given assignment, she has no basis for knowing how much or how little time and effort her peers put into their work or what it takes to succeed (or fail) in a group setting, she exchanges daily pleasantries and gossip with her brothers and her parents but rarely has daily peer contact. There is good and bad on both sides and I have yet to discover how to achieve a balance.

 

It is hard but it is also a wonderful time, both academically and personally, to share with your kid.

 

 

I think this is a really, really good post. Yes, I had to modify my own life and the life of my family and the lives of the extended family. Yes, the lack of peer pressure was good AND bad. In 9th grade, especially, I kept wishing I could invite the public schooled cousins over to do their homework with mine so they could see what THAT looked like. And so *I* could see what their work looked like. There started to be pressure to jump through hoops for colleges that I had to balance with own educational goals. I had to keep that pressure and panic from showing or I burdened my children not only with their own work but with half mine as well, but at the same time, I had to give them choices because it was their education.

.

.

.

 

Difficult.

 

Nan

[swimmermom3]

<snip>

 

Did we do any of this earlier than 9th? Yes. Of course. But if they couldn't really pull it off or they didn't do a good job, I let it slide. I'm glad I didn't push them earlier but it did mean that 9th grade, when I expected their work to LOOK good and arrive in a conventional format AS WELL AS contain good information, was a bit of a struggle while they got used to the new expectations. With the youngest, I did a much better job of keeping the panic out of my voice when I told him his assignment was completely unacceptable in its current format, that he had only followed a small part the directions, that I really did mean it when I asked him to do such a stupid thing, that he had to do it even if it was boring, that he had to follow the directions even if he had a better idea, and that he had to try and come up with something, anything, even if it was hard and taking forever.

 

I had children who wanted to homeschool and the resources to do things like order history books to be shipped from France, take science and writing at the community college, and send children traveling overseas. If I hadn't been able to provide a rich education at home, one that offered the child a bigger world than our local school system, I would have thought twice about homeschooling. Our local public school is excellent (for a school grin). Homeschooling was a ton of work and there were definately disadvantages. My children wouldn't be who they are if they hadn't homeschooled, though, and I like who they turned out to be. : )

 

Nan

 

 

Nan, I don't know whether to laugh or cry in reading the part above in bold.

 

For us, the decision to homeschool was a huge step "off the grid." Add a rather unusual child to that mix and it makes for sleepless nights and research-loaded days. I think I have spent the last couple of years following you around and absorbing your common-sense advice and unconventional approaches. Thanks so much, Nan, for always being willing to share and having the uncanny knack for smacking the issues right on the head.

 

With regards to ninth grade, we had an excellent day yesterday and in doing so, I realized that if I am going to keep pace with my son, my own research and preparation must go even deeper than before. I used to be able to read the text, the literature or whatever else he was going to cover and that would be enough. Now, I need to read a handful of resources to be able to come at subjects from a variety of angles. My own studies have to be more disciplined and dinner still has to get on the table.

 

The most difficult part of ninth grade is dealing with a mind that is able to make major leaps, twists, and turns and yet still, as Nan pointed out, needs to be told which side of the notebook paper the holes go on. It keeps the teacher in a perpetually unbalanced state.

[jhschool]

nm

[Luckymama]

I found this discussion to be very helpful the first time around. I hope new readers may also find it useful :)