Lightbulb moment! 15yodd has reading comprehension issues! Now what???

[steppingstonemomma]

I can't believe this! I just had my 15yodd take the local community college's practice test for the enrollment assessment test. She did great on the math (shocked because she's not good at math) and sentence skills portion. BUT, she bombed the Reading comprehension part!

 

This is my child who LOVES to read anything literature! Dickens, Austen, Illiad- she loves them all! But, she has always struggled reading any non-fiction such as a textbook. Apologia biology is really challenging her right now! I figured it was just not her favorite subject, but now I'm suddenly realizing that it has nothing to do with that. She lacks reading comprehension skills.

 

( Just thinking back... she was very resistant to reading/phonics and wouldn't even read early readers. Suddenly the last week of 2nd grade she was given the first Narnia book and read the whole thing. Never looked back. And we just did a lot of living books for all the rest of her years. Now I'm thinking that I missed some important skill!Even used living books for science until 9th grade, so I never realized she didn't have good non fiction reading comp....)

 

Soooo, now what? What can I do to help her come up to par? I don't have a lot of time in my day to devote to extra tutoring-no that I'd even know where to start-, but could carve out a little if I can find some resource that is all planned and quick and painless. Any ideas? Age appropriate? I know she won't take it seriously if it is a book geared to elementary/middle agers.

 

Oh, please help! We were planning on community college next year in spring semester, but there's no way she will be able to handle it if we don't get this licked!

 

Any advice on this is greatly appreciated!

Tiffany

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

Have her take the NRRF grade level test (Part 2, those with grade levels, 1 - 6), the MWIA II, and the New Elizabethian Test. Do either part of the New Elizabethian Test from my website, you don't have to do both. Based on the results from those tests, I'll have a recommendation for you, most of my recommendations are usually free and cheap resources. If she passes level 6 on the NRRF, do grade levels 8, 10, and 12 at the bottom of my reading grade level link below.

 

http://www.thephonic...ggradeleve.html

 

My links need to be updated, but I haven't had time...we had to move out of our house for health related reasons and we're just now unpacking the final boxes. Here is the MWIA with a good link, do part II, pages 7 and 8, making sure to time each page. Also, note errors, especially for page 8. (for example, write "squeal" over squirrel or "frog" over "fog" in those are substituted. The pattern of errors is important for figuring out the best programs for remediation.

 

http://www.donpotter.net/pdf/mwia.pdf

[Lori D.]

Often the Community College will offer Reading courses to teach and/or practice reading strategies, comprehension, vocabulary, reading study skills, etc. For example here are several "remedial" courses offered at our CC (remedial as in, the student is not yet at college level, and the course is designed to raise them up to that level):

 

Reading Fundamentals

Development of fundamental reading strategies. Includes extensive development of word analysis, vocabulary, information literacy, and reading strategies necessary to assure successful comprehension at the literal and interpretive levels. Designed for persons who need an intensive review of the basic reading strategies.

 

Reading Improvement I

Improvement of basic reading strategies. Includes development of word analysis, vocabulary, information literacy, and reading strategies necessary to assure successful comprehension at the literal level and interpretive levels. Designed for persons who need to improve strategies in order to increase their success in college.

 

Reading Improvement II

Development of reading strategies. Includes vocabulary comprehension, study strategies, metacognition, information literacy, and community of readers.

 

Critical Reading

Development of college reading strategies. Includes comprehension strategies at the college level, critical reading and thinking, information literacy, vocabulary development, and advanced study strategies.

 

 

If the CC doesn't offer anything, or if your DD would not be eligible yet, check and see if your local university has something your student could take. Or, if there is something available through one of your local high schools that your student would be allowed to participate in.

 

Or, check for a tutor in your area who specializes in this area.

 

If there is no course available locally, you might look at online courses. Here is one I found via google search -- I know nothing about it, or if it is effective/reliable, but the course outline looks good.

 

 

This is one of those specialty areas that is probably best to have a knowledgeable class teacher or private tutor help with, rather than trying to use a book or program on your own with your DD. Just my 2 cents worth! BEST of luck in finding what is the best help! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

PS

Just wanted to add this quote from lewelma's (Ruth in NZ) post (#82) in the recent "Why are textbooks considered bad?" thread:

 

When I was training to be a teacher all those years ago, I often thought that I would save my students from having to read the textbook. I thought it was just so much more efficient to teach them directly. Then, I took the "remedial reading" class (yes, that is the name that still appears on my transcript) -- it was all about the importance of reading and how to help kids learn to READ, not just to read. This was the ONLY class in university that I went in with a certain paradigm and left with another. And I have NEVER questioned the new paradigm -- students need to be able to read a textbook so that they can learn independently and are not completely reliant on another person to teach them.

 

Just was adding this to show how valuable these "remedial" reading courses can be!

[PachiSusan]

I think this is a great warning to all of us: just because a child knows the mechanics of reading doesn't mean they understand and retain what they are reading. I'm stepping up my reading comprehension with Melissa now.

 

That said - I don't have any advice as I only have one small child. I can offer a hug tho! :grouphug:

[ElizabethB]

If her native language is Spanish, I also have different recommendations. (Quickly looked at your blog.) With most of my remedial students have been native English speakers, I have had several ESL students. Even those ESL students that had English immersion experiences and had no accent or apparent vocabulary problems have had underlying phonics/language issues that were best addressed by a slightly different mix and weight of resources than those of a native English speaker.

[Candid]

I think you've gotten some great advice, but I also think back to that simple advice Ruth Beechick gives that practice, practice, practice is the way to go in reading you can also work with your dd to read more nonfiction. Find nontext books on subjects she is interested in. Your standard will be they will be nonnarrative in nature that in my view is the difficulty jump to nonfiction (and yes, I think for the most part nonfiction is a more difficult read than fiction).

[sbaloue]

My younger son (8th grade) scored lowest in reading comprehension. I am starting him on Reading Detective by The Critical Thinking Co. Check out this series at http://www.criticalthinking.com/series/015/index_c.jsp. It is something your daughter could do by herself.

[Mandamom]

I can't believe this! I just had my 15yodd take the local community college's practice test for the enrollment assessment test. She did great on the math (shocked because she's not good at math) and sentence skills portion. BUT, she bombed the Reading comprehension part!

 

This is my child who LOVES to read anything literature! Dickens, Austen, Illiad- she loves them all! But, she has always struggled reading any non-fiction such as a textbook. Apologia biology is really challenging her right now! I figured it was just not her favorite subject, but now I'm suddenly realizing that it has nothing to do with that. She lacks reading comprehension skills.

 

( Just thinking back... she was very resistant to reading/phonics and wouldn't even read early readers. Suddenly the last week of 2nd grade she was given the first Narnia book and read the whole thing. Never looked back. And we just did a lot of living books for all the rest of her years. Now I'm thinking that I missed some important skill!Even used living books for science until 9th grade, so I never realized she didn't have good non fiction reading comp....)

 

Soooo, now what? What can I do to help her come up to par? I don't have a lot of time in my day to devote to extra tutoring-no that I'd even know where to start-, but could carve out a little if I can find some resource that is all planned and quick and painless. Any ideas? Age appropriate? I know she won't take it seriously if it is a book geared to elementary/middle agers.

 

Oh, please help! We were planning on community college next year in spring semester, but there's no way she will be able to handle it if we don't get this licked!

 

Any advice on this is greatly appreciated!

Tiffany

 

 

I work with several students, and have a daughter (and struggled for years myself) who struggle with comprehension issues. Some of these kids have phonics issues but most do not. They also tend to be weaker in vocabulary which should also be developed to help with the comprehension.

 

My first priority is to remediate the phonics issues, if any, first because that will help with comprehension problems.

 

Next, figure out what levels your daughter is currently at both silently and orally. If she struggles with both than you will need to work on both skills. Once I know the right levels I use several leveled workbook series (EPS Reading Comprehension Varied Subject Matter among several) and we either read them out loud or silently (depending weaknesses) and have them do narration, inferential discussion and working on vocabulary development. If vocabulary is low (relative to grade) I use Wordly Wise and make sure they know the words and the meanings. I like both series because there is a lot of non-fiction and some fiction stories to work through. I use other series for more fiction development.

 

Feel free to ask if you have any further questions or you need more ideas.

[steppingstonemomma]

Elizabeth,

I gave my daughter all the reading tests. She aced every one of them. The only one she had the slightest bit of trouble with was the 12th grade level of the NRRF. She didn't get any wrong, just hesitated before three of the more obscure vocabulary words and had to sound them out a bit. Just didn't read them smoothly. (Neither could I as a matter of fact! LOL!)

 

So I don't think it is a reading skill problem, but definitely a comprehension issue. Does that help? Any ideas now? I'm wondering if she just needs more exposure to these types of questions or if there is an actual skill missing here.

 

 

Here is the link to the sample assessment test for our community college that I gave her last night. This is what she bombed.

http://www.harford.edu/Testing/Accuplacer%20Reading%20Comprehension%20Practice.pdf

 

This is the link for sentence skills. She got 100% on this part...

http://www.harford.edu/Testing/Accuplacer%20Sentence%20Skills%20Practice.pdf

[steppingstonemomma]

Thanks, Janice. I will look into the EPS book. She definitely has no issues with reading fiction. She is doing Windows to the World right now and can analyze and think beautifully- as long as it's a story! LOL!

 

We've done Wordly Wise for the past 2 years and is now using Vocabulary for Achievement grade 9. So we are working on vocabulary. She is constantly reading (no twaddle- pet peeve of mine) but only literature.

 

So anything else out there to boost non fiction reading comprehension skills?

 

Lori, I'd love to have her take classes from someone other than me, but it isn't in the budget right now. grrr...

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Oral narration. You'll be able to gauge comprehension immediately.

 

Have her read a short passage (a pargraph or two) in a textbook and then ask her questions to orally answer. After a few weeks, have her read a short passage and say, "Tell me about something you read." Gradually move to longer readings.

 

If you are using textbooks with questions at the end of the chapter, do them orally.

 

If she can not find answers and tell them to you, teach her the skill of skimming for answers and summarizing answers in her own words.

[TCB]

I don't have any wise advice but just thought I'd mention that practice may help her. I just tried the test myself and found that I got some wrong initially but did much better towards the end with just the practice of doing the previous questions. I really think that answering reading comprehension questions for tests is a skill in itself, and can be improved just by practicing answering the questions. However, I'm afraid I don't know how to improve real problems with reading comprehension.

[Lori D.]

Lori, I'd love to have her take classes from someone other than me, but it isn't in the budget right now. grrr...

 

 

Reading comprehension is SO very crucial to academic success, perhaps you and DH could discuss ways of re-prioritizing the budget for a few months in order to make this happen? Or would a grandparent or relative, or your church group or homeschool group be able to help with scholarship funds? Can you apply for low-income scholarship help from the CC? Often, public school special ed. is FREE. Just trying to help you think outside the box...

 

Would the online class I linked about be in the budget? It is only $40 (without a certificate of completion). Scroll down and check out the course lesson descriptions; it looks very detailed and right on target for teaching the strategies of reading comprehension.

 

 

More resources:

 

- Skill Builders: Reading Comprehension Success in 20 Minutes a Day (high school/adult) = $35

20 clear, concise lessons... With examples from literature, essays, technical writing, and articles... includes: A Pretest to pinpoint your strengths and weaknesses... Lessons with hundreds of exercises in test format to help you acquire or refresh essential reading comprehension skills... A Posttest to show you the progress you've made... tips for important standardized test preparation... Reading Comprehension essentials include: Finding the Main Idea Determining Essential Information Chronological Order Defining Vocabulary in Context Difference between Fact and Opinion Similarities and Differences Point of View Diction Style Word Power Finding the Implied Main Idea Assuming Causes and Predicting Effects Finding Meaning in Literature Drawing Conclusions

 

- Inferences and Drawing Conclusions: 35 Reading Passages for Comprehension (gr. 5-8) = $8-9

"... practice... to master the reading skills of making inferences and drawing conclusions... 35 reproducible pages... high-interest nonfiction reading passage with short-answer practice questions that target one of these essential reading comprehension skills... the book also includes model lessons, assessments, and an answer key.

 

- Hi-Lo Passages to Build Comprehension (gr. 7-8) = $5-6

"... variety of non-fiction genres, including articles, biographies, e-mail announcements, and how-to guides... to help build comprehension skills. Companion questions for each passage focus on skills such as inferencing, sequencing, predicting, understanding story elements, and more.

 

- FREE online Study Guides and Strategies website with articles on Research and Reading. Helpful info, but a little harder to put into practice on your own without guidance.

 

- More FREE online articles: The Muskingum Colllege CAL Learning Strategies Database, listt of articles on Specific Reading Comprehension Strategies. Helpful info, but a little harder to put into practice on your own without guidance.

 

 

BEST of luck in finding what helps! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[lovemykids]

I agree that it is slightly possible that your daughter has just never had this type of experience before and therefore just needs a little practice. If that’s the case, I like to second the recommendation for More Reading Comprehension by Educator’s Publishing Service. Very effective little books! Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Mandamom]

Thanks, Janice. I will look into the EPS book. She definitely has no issues with reading fiction. She is doing Windows to the World right now and can analyze and think beautifully- as long as it's a story! LOL!

 

We've done Wordly Wise for the past 2 years and is now using Vocabulary for Achievement grade 9. So we are working on vocabulary. She is constantly reading (no twaddle- pet peeve of mine) but only literature.

 

So anything else out there to boost non fiction reading comprehension skills?

 

Lori, I'd love to have her take classes from someone other than me, but it isn't in the budget right now. grrr...

 

 

I checked the lexile level of one of the passages and it is definitely college level. So, having her practicing at a high school level (more varied subject matter books) and progress through harder material would probably help her out a lot.

 

If you need or want any in-person help (free) let me know. We live really close to each other.

[ElizabethB]

If her science reading has been mainly living books, she is probably missing a lot of the background vocabulary to understand those passages easily. That is a lot easier and quicker to fix than both a reading and vocabulary problem, though! (All my students with reading difficulties also have a vocabulary deficit from years of not being able to read well.)

 

The Real Science 4 Kids level I (Middle school, grades 5 - 8) books are quick reads and heavy on science vocabulary. If you know someone who has them, that would be a quick way to gain the vocabulary, have her read through the student texts, reading the vocabulary words for each chapter before and after each chapter. You can see samples online.

 

There is a discussion going on now about Hirsch's article about the importance of vocabulary to success in general and reading comprehension in particular, here is the thread with a link to his article.

 

The McGuffey readers have comprehension questions from the 4th grade reader on. While most of the content is from literature, there are a handful of articles in each reader that are science based. That might be an quick, cheap way to work on the comprehension portion, they are free online from Gutenberg press. The 4th reader is actually a fairly high vocabulary level, you can start with that one and work your way up. (Although it is not the precise scientific vocabulary of today for the most part, it does have a few good scientific vocabulary words.)

 

http://www.gutenberg.org

 

Here is the 4th reader in text form, for example, it has non-fiction passages about "The Eagle," "The Horse," "The Lion," "The Giraffe," etc.

 

While these are dated, one of the 5th Reader's passages is written by Audubon, so that is a bonus!

[Kendall]

Sorry this posted twice, I'm not sure why.

 

I would recommend reading Cris Tovani's books. One was more helpful than the others. I think it was the I Read it But I don't get it book. If you are interested, I'll look further to see if I can remember. Her books are geared toward the high school levels both remedial and advanced. Many reading strategies books are geared toward elementary levels. Maybe just reading about reading strategies would help you. Then I would do the read with her/near her/ have her narrate, ask her questions after that.

 

My 2nd child (who was a National Merit Finalist) had some comprehension issues that (obviously) didn't show up on standardized tests. I did what I could his Jr/sr years. I had him read hard stuff and write a brief summary in the margin. I read near him and then asked him to tell me what he had read, then I asked questions to see if he understood things I thought were difficult. It helped me to know the strategies, because not all good readers do them automatically. Some kids, like my son, needed to be explicitly taught things that were obvious to me to do(such as assessing yourself for understanding). I wish I had done more, but I think what we did helped. He is doing okay in college.

 

I just reread you post and saw that you have a similar number of people to work with . I had seven at home when he was a jr/sr. I just had to let some things slip for the others and do science/history videos with the others to get some one on one time with him. We also did some evening time.

[Kendall]

deleted this repeat post

[steppingstonemomma]

What about the McCall Crabbs book that tests reading comprehension? Anyone think this is a good resource?

[steppingstonemomma]

I just thought that I would update this post in case it will help anyone!

After all the great advice, I was able to rule out any kind of decoding issues. We did an intensive reading comprehension workbook (found it on my library's free resource list) that I printed and worked through with her. She actually did go take the placement test at the CC and surprised both of us by placing into English 101 (fairly high level, too)! I'm not sure that makes me feel super comfortable because I know sometimes those test aren't a very good indicator of skills....watered down...etc.

So, the other thing I did the rest of the school year was make her type up a paragraph summary after each subsection of the Apologia Bio book. That was the subject she was having the most difficulty with and I felt sure it was due to comprehension issues. Lo and behold, her test scores sky rocketed! She did so much better. And then, if she got lazy (and I forgot to follow up) and didn't do good summaries, her test scores went down. So we both have discussed how necessary it is for her to do this...and she is much more willing since she knows for sure it works.

For other reasons, we have decided not to do Eng 101 at the college this fall and instead give her another semester or 2 at home to practice these skills more thoroughly.

Lori, I am still planning on having her take that online comprehension class this summer. I just couldn't add it on to her workload this past school year with all the co-op classes she was taking. But, thanks for the link. It looks perfect. And much more economical for the budget than a CC remedial class.

 

Oh, and I forgot to add that she is currently working on the EPS workbook this summer... So thank you for that recommendation!

[PeterPan]

Read and never responded to this, but I just wanted to say I'm glad to hear it's going better for your dd! As you say, textbook reading and fiction reading are entirely separate skills. Sounds like you're on the right track. :hurray:

[Lilaclady]

Thanks for bumping his up. My dd also SOS lowest in reading comprehension part of test although she is much younger. I have often been perplexed as she is an excellent reader.