Pros and cons of Hakim as a US history spine?

[ScoutTN]

Asking for a friend who is considering it for next yr with a 5th and a 2nd grader.

 

(We are still happily immersed in SOTW 2. Need a knight or princess smiley here!)

 

If you don't like it, what have you chosen instead?

Did you buy it or use library copies?

Did you use it over one year or more than one?

 

 

Thanks.

Happy Friday!

[Jenn121]

My 6th grader is using them this year. I ordered the Hewitt Homeschool tests for them. She reads 2-3 chapters a day andget to practice her outlining and narration skills by keeping a note book with the main point of the chapters. This then becomes her study guide for the tests.

 

I am using this as a way to teach my DD the study skills that will be needed in 7th and up. If she gets stuck we work together to find the answer.

 

Jenn

[Chrysalis Academy]

I got them from the library to check out - at least twice - and frankly find them unreadable. It's the busyness of the pages, the scattered and disconnected feeling, and also something about the tone/writing style. So I'd recommend your friend see if she can get ahold of one from the library before she buys! See if *she* can stand reading them first.

 

FWIW, we are using Story of Science and I find it much better. So it's not a blanket disklike of Hakim's style, but something about those books just doesn't work for me.

 

ETA: Sorry, didn't finish answering: we're doing American History concurrently with SOTW 3 & 4. We're reading The Making of America by Paul Johnson (or Johnston?), The Young People's History of the United States by Zinn, and then I have The Century for Young People by Jennings & Brewster for when we get to the 20th century. Those are kind of big picture/compare and contrast spines. We're using tons of library books, biographies and historical fiction to fill in the details. We did a great American Revolution unit, now we're reading Lewis and Clark for Kids, and we'll spend a fair amount of time on the Civil War in the spring.

[pollo_la]

I really like them! I think they are very readable. I've never really been someone who "loves" history, but when I started looking these books over, and reading them, they sucked me right in. I was very engaged. I 8 year old dd is currently making her way through the first one. She reads 3 chapters a day. She is almost done with the first book at this point. I simply have her read and then summarize what she read afterward (we never do any kind of tests). Many times she tells me about intersting things she is learning as she is reading, so that's a good sign that she's into the reading. We do have all the books (bought them used on a site where I was able to get a cheaper price buying in bulk). My plan is to spread these out over a few years. After she finishes the first book she will read books on other topics (3-4) and then we will go back and read the next one in the series.

[KarenNC]

We've been using them as a spine for the end of the 2nd year of the history cycle (2nd go-round--5th-8th grades) and then the 3rd/4th years. I supplement them with the k12 Human Odyssey series for a world history perspective, along with lots of documentaries from the library and Netflix, some fiction and non-fiction extra books, field trips when possible, and, where relevant, sometimes movies set in the time period, just to give a "flavor" of the time. We're almost up to the Civil War, and so far, so good. I bought a combo of used copies of varying editions at used book stores and library sales as I found them, which seems to be working out fine. k12's American History before 1865 and American History since 1865 courses use these in 5th and 6th grade respectively. I picked up used copies of their student and teacher pages through Amazon and have taken them as a guide so far. We're finishing up American History before 1865 (I may be switching to the Oxford University Press guides or the Johns Hopkins guides for the rest of it, not sure yet). A fair portion of the k12 course materials are only available through their online course, not the printed pages. It can be irritating to be ready to assign a lesson only to find that the material for it is only in the online portion. Do be aware that at some point, k12 switched to a concise version of the Hakim books, so the date of the student pages, etc may matter. I've found that there are some page number or chapter number discrepancies, since I'm using a variety of editions, but it's not insurmountable. I believe one of the publishers of the guides does a series for elementary/middle and one for middle/high, so that might be helpful since the friend will have children of quite differing ages and educational stages using the same material.

 

PBS did a series called Freedom: a History of US taken from these, with teaching materials---- http://www.pbs.org/w...ofus/

 

BTW, we did try the Story of Science, but it was not a good fit for us.

[Farrar]

I like them and the talky style and scattered images is okay with me, though I understand why some people don't like it. But it's just too long. We did US for 2nd grade and no way would I use it with 2nd graders in a million years. It's WAY too long and detailed in my opinion. Much more so than SOTW, by comparison. If we had done Hakim, we wouldn't have been able to use many supplemental books, but there are SO many good US history books for elementary. That would have been a big loss, IMO.

 

I'll consider it for the middle school age stab we take at US history though.

[eclecticschooler]

Too much information and boring. Sorry to not agree with others. I found them to be cumbersome.

[elegantlion]

I really think she needs to get one volume and she how she likes it. I read one to ds in elementary school and frankly I gave it away quickly afterward. I like the pictures, they're pretty, but her style grated on me. I had to stop reading a few times. I'm not sure exactly why. It kept from my buying The Story of Science, which is also very beautiful. I checked those out of the library a few times and just couldn't read them myself.

 

Now, maybe it was me, maybe it was the timing or the volume, but I was surprised by my negative reaction. It's one of those books I recommend trying before investing into the whole 10/11 volume set.

 

I do agree it's too much to do all of them for that age, maybe pick a few to focus on.

[happypamama]

I borrowed them from the library but didn't like the tone. I appreciate narrative (like SWB) but thought that Hakim was too chatty and talked down to the kids. Unfortunately, I haven't found something I like better; I really wish SWB would write a one-volume US history. We ended up using H. E. Marshall's This Country of Ours (which we loved but only goes up to WWI) and will use parts of the later SOTW volumes and parts of Christian Liberty Press's A Child's Story of America (which I don't love; it's too conservative "all Democrats bad, all Republicans good" for my liking, so I edit when reading aloud, but it includes things like John Paul Jones, which TCOO didn't include at all).

[dbmamaz]

I borrowed them from the library first, but really liked them and bought the whole set. if dh had not gotten a job, i would have bought the older used set - those are cheap.

 

I read 1-2 chapters/day to both boys, and bring in library books, netflix videos, field trips when it seems appropriate. I thought we could get through it in 2 years but we only made it through 4 books the first year. I always hated history and I like them. The boys seem to engage ok. they dont much like history either - but i think its a reasonable level for both of them and I like it, so i'm sticking with it. If i'm still homeschooling the younger one in 3 years, i might make him re-read them, but i'm not sure i could really get him to.

[Alte Veste Academy]

We love the books here. I have the 11 volume set and the entire series on audio. I agree that they might be too much for 2nd grade. Might. Depends on how stong of a reader or listener the 2nd grader is. I used them very early with my kids, but mostly on audio. We all LOVE them on audio. The narrator is fantastic and by listening, you avoid the sidebar distractions that irritate so many people. This set on audio is one of the top 5 best homeschooling purchases I have ever made.

 

Honestly, this series seems to be such a love-hate thing, I think she should preview at least one volume and listen to the snippets from Audible as well.

 

http://www.audible.com/pd/ref=sr_1_2?asin=B002UZZ3OG&qid=1358642315&sr=1-2

[lmrich]

My 11 year old dd loved the first volume. She read the whole thing in four days. But I think my son would have hated them. He hates the talky style of Apologia.

[Walking-Iris]

I have no honest btdt reviews. But I have decided to use them for history next year with my 5th grader. I've had the chance to look at one volume and I really like the layout. I've been considering combining it with the EPS Story of USA or to use the Oxford University Press guides. I really love things that can grow with a child. And these books seem like something that can be looked at again and again as a kid grows.

[mom31257]

Dd couldn't stand the writing style of the author, so she switched to a textbook. She was in 8th grade, though. I can't imagine using them with a 2nd grader. I personally really like The Complete Book of US History. It makes a very good spine for elementary. DK has a wonderful American History Encyclopedia. Scholastic has a great book, 3D Interactive Maps of American History.

[mom31257]

Dd couldn't stand the writing style of the author, so she switched to a textbook. She was in 8th grade, though. I can't imagine using them with a 2nd grader. I personally really like The Complete Book of US History. It makes a very good spine for elementary. DK has a wonderful American History Encyclopedia. Scholastic has a great book, 3D Interactive Maps of American History.

[Walking-Iris]

ETA: Sorry, didn't finish answering: we're doing American History concurrently with SOTW 3 & 4. We're reading The Making of America by Paul Johnson (or Johnston?), The Young People's History of the United States by Zinn, and then I have The Century for Young People by Jennings & Brewster for when we get to the 20th century. Those are kind of big picture/compare and contrast spines. We're using tons of library books, biographies and historical fiction to fill in the details. We did a great American Revolution unit, now we're reading Lewis and Clark for Kids, and we'll spend a fair amount of time on the Civil War in the spring.

 

 

Are there only the three volumes of these books?

 

 

 

I personally really like The Complete Book of US History. It makes a very good spine for elementary. DK has a wonderful American History Encyclopedia. Scholastic has a great book, 3D Interactive Maps of American History.

 

 

I see that Complete Book recommended so often. Would you think it babyish for a rising 5th grader? Maybe as a supplement with other read alouds?

[Farrar]

 

I see that Complete Book recommended so often. Would you think it babyish for a rising 5th grader? Maybe as a supplement with other read alouds?

 

I don't think it would be babyish for fifth grade or even for middle school - for high school definitely, but it's *very* bare bones. I think it has a lot of potential uses and could be good for a fifth grader. I think it makes a good spine for checking off information to make sure you're covering things. So, for example, if a family was doing SOTW but wanted to make sure they had added in enough US history, then it would be a good thing to get. Or, if you wanted to have a study that was mostly based in individual resources - a lot of historical fiction or a nice list of good nonfiction and biographies - then it would be a good way to make sure you were following in order and covering everything. Or, if you needed history to be really simplified for a year for some reason, then it would be a good resource. If you're doing Hakim, I wouldn't personally bother with it.

[Farrar]

We love the books here. I have the 11 volume set and the entire series on audio. I agree that they might be too much for 2nd grade. Might. Depends on how stong of a reader or listener the 2nd grader is. I used them very early with my kids, but mostly on audio. We all LOVE them on audio. The narrator is fantastic and by listening, you avoid the sidebar distractions that irritate so many people. This set on audio is one of the top 5 best homeschooling purchases I have ever made.

 

Honestly, this series seems to be such a love-hate thing, I think she should preview at least one volume and listen to the snippets from Audible as well.

 

http://www.audible.c...58642315&sr=1-2

 

 

Yes, I said I wouldn't have used it with a second grader ever... but it wasn't so much the level of detail, though that is on the high end for that age. We read a few bits of it and it would have been okay, I just kept thinking that I would much rather be reading other things with my 2nd graders - Jean Fritz and Betsy Maestro, and piles and piles of historical fiction and if we also did the Hakim books, it would be overload. We read more history last year than we've ever read and more than I think we'll get to this year with early modern because there were too many good options. If we'd done them on audio, that would have partially solved that problem.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Yes, I said I wouldn't have used it with a second grader ever... but it wasn't so much the level of detail, though that is on the high end for that age. We read a few bits of it and it would have been okay, I just kept thinking that I would much rather be reading other things with my 2nd graders - Jean Fritz and Betsy Maestro, and piles and piles of historical fiction and if we also did the Hakim books, it would be overload. We read more history last year than we've ever read and more than I think we'll get to this year with early modern because there were too many good options. If we'd done them on audio, that would have partially solved that problem.

 

Yes, the audio did prevent that problem here. We still read lots of picture books, bios, and other read-alouds because the audio was so casual and enjoyable, and mostly enjoyed out of "official" school hours, often in the car. I have strangely vivid memories of listening while cleaning kids' rooms with them, now that I think about it!

[Chrysalis Academy]

Are there only the three volumes of these books?

 

 

 

Do you mean Zinn's Young People's History? I'm not sure what formats are out there, we are using the Kindle version and it's just one book. It's not a traditional textbook treatment, by any means. It presents american history from the pov of those not usually considered in textbooks - women, native americans, working class people, slaves, etc. In addition to what it adds to what we learn in other history books, I find it an *excellent* way to teach about history - what is point of view? how are stories told? how do they change when you change pov? how do we decide what is "true" historically? does "truth" change over time?

 

I wouldn't use it as stand-alone history though. I like to read about something in a "straight" history book, talk about it, then read the relevant Zinn chapter. Some of the discussions we've had have been pretty mind-blowing.

[Walking-Iris]

 

 

Do you mean Zinn's Young People's History? I'm not sure what formats are out there, we are using the Kindle version and it's just one book. It's not a traditional textbook treatment, by any means. It presents american history from the pov of those not usually considered in textbooks - women, native americans, working class people, slaves, etc. In addition to what it adds to what we learn in other history books, I find it an *excellent* way to teach about history - what is point of view? how are stories told? how do they change when you change pov? how do we decide what is "true" historically? does "truth" change over time?

 

I wouldn't use it as stand-alone history though. I like to read about something in a "straight" history book, talk about it, then read the relevant Zinn chapter. Some of the discussions we've had have been pretty mind-blowing.

 

 

 

I love Howard Zinn and I've heard of these books, but haven't really looked into them. I wanted my kids to read his others when they were older. I have those but they are too young to read them obviously. Amazon says 10 and up and shows 3 books. I wondered if those were the only 3 volumes.

 

I'm interested in history that is not a check it off one year program curriculum. I want to focus on US in depth next year, but I want books in the house that my kids can look at and read again and again and get something new from as they grow. We've done the children's historical fiction books, and now I'm looking for some meatier non-fiction additions. That's why I've decided on Hakim and these Zinn's are intriguing. We have a few of the Don't Know Much series we can read as well.

 

My ds needs something hands on though. Something to do. Just straight reading/talking isn't the best method with him. So I also wanted to look into some simple study guides or workbooks to mix it up. I've looked at the EPS Story of USA and the Oxford guides. And that's why I asked about the Complete book.

 

Okay. Hijack over!!! Sorry.