Does anybody else have a child who just shuts down?

[plain jane]

My 6yo does this and I am really starting to lose it with him. First it was WWE1- I have a whole other thread on this. Now it is getting to be everything else.

 

Today we were working on Sentence Family. It's supposed to be cute and fun, right? Well he refuses to participate. He absolutely refuses to have any input as to what the different characters would say- even with multiple examples from his older sibling (who is doing the program with him) or myself. We discuss how the character talks, give examples, talk about how they would say things. Ad nauseum.

 

He just won't say anything. He won't write anything. He draws the characters and enjoys the stories and laughs at what his sibling says but he won't participate. If I get something out of him, it is an exact replica of something his sibling has mentioned previous so it's not at all something he came up with himself. He will just sit there. It is so.... aaaaaaahhhhhh.

 

I don't know what to do. I've tried FLL and that was a bust so I tried Evan Moor grammar workbook but that seemed too simple and he was bored. So I tried Sentence Family now. It's low-key, fun, light-hearted. But oh no, this child won't say a darn thing. He really struggled with FLL with the open-ended questions. Like the picture studies. Sometimes the text would ask, "what do you think the girl's name could be?" It would take him like 45 minutes to come up with something. He would just say, "I don't know." Or he'd cry that he had no idea what it could be. We would talk about how there is no right or wrong answer but it would just be beyond him. Finally, he'd say a name... usually his sister's name. Sigh.

 

He's one of those kids who won't speak up for himself. He's quiet and introverted and I know in school he would never put up his hand to either volunteer information or ask a question. He's in a few classes and he doesn't do that in any of the classes he's in. He does well but he seems to float through, if that makes sense. He'd be one of those kids who'd just get pushed through from one grade to the next but not really have much of a clue as to what is going on. I want more for him.

 

Do I just drop Sentence Family too? Accept that he is never going to participate? Is it wrong of me to want him to say something during our lessons??? I do "get it" but I don't get it and I certainly don't know how to fix this.

[redsquirrel]

Will he dictate an answer to you? My son sometimes has problems with word finding. He knows what he wants to say but cannot make the words come out of his mouth. If that is a problem for your son, he might have learned ways to cope that don't draw attention to it.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Well, TSF is a pretty creative and somewhat abstract grammar program. Maybe your little guy is more concrete? I would not push it. Your post actually reminded me of one of SWB's audio lectures, the one where her mom was mortified when Susan's brother went off to college and tanked in English because he was assigned to keep a journal about how he felt every day. Turns out, he didn't "feel" anything and thought the whole assignment was bizarre. :lol:

 

Anyway, maybe the curriculum just doesn't suit him. Frankly, at 6, no way would I stress over grammar. If he is listening and laughing, he is absorbing. Gently ask him in what way he might like to participate or would he just like to listen. Maybe get him a blank notebook to write/draw grammar concepts? I used Lively Language Lessons that way with DD and older DS when they were younger. They weren't graded, just for light, fun exposure. Or drop it altogether.

 

ETA: Must add! My kid who shuts down? The absolute worst thing for our relationship and his education was for me to lose patience with him. He is telling you something by shutting down and you will not figure out what by getting upset and griping. The turtle just draws his head further into his shell when he feels threatened and overwhelmed. Ask me how I know. :grouphug:

 

ETA 2: :D If it makes you feel better, my DS6 is flat out not ready for the abstract nature of grammar. And he does IEW with us! :lol: Go figure!

[mommymilkies]

Sounds like my 8 yo. Wish I had wisdom to share. :(

[fairfarmhand]

Will he participate if you give him choices? Should the girl's name be Susie or Jan?

 

At 6 I wouldn't push it.

[texasmama]

Why was FLL a bust?

[Alte Veste Academy]

He just won't say anything. He won't write anything. He draws the characters and enjoys the stories and laughs at what his sibling says but he won't participate. If I get something out of him, it is an exact replica of something his sibling has mentioned previous so it's not at all something he came up with himself. He will just sit there. It is so.... aaaaaaahhhhhh.

 

Oh, I also wanted to add that if the siblings typically go first and/or are very exuberant and/or very quick and sharp with the material, your 6 year old may truly feel he doesn't have anything to add, or his idea may have been used, or he may have forgotten his idea, or he may feel his contribution isn't good enough, etc. Luckily (?), my kid who shuts down was my oldest so he at least had the privilege of age, experience, and more knowledge. If he was the youngest, I think finding his way/place/voice would have been much harder for him, you know? Do you always do TSF as a group? Did you do FLL alone with him?

 

Also, some kids are slow responders, usually thoughtful, conscientious, perfectionistic kids. Also, lots of shy, quiet, anxious kids worry about being wrong. Even when we don't lose it with them, sometimes they would rather not answer at all than risk being wrong.

 

Might not apply at all but thought I would throw it out there.

[Corraleno]

Frankly, at 6, no way would I stress over grammar. If he is listening and laughing, he is absorbing. Gently ask him in what way he might like to participate or would he just like to listen. Maybe get him a blank notebook to write/draw grammar concepts? I used Lively Language Lessons that way with DD and older DS when they were younger. They weren't graded, just for light, fun exposure. Or drop it altogether.

 

ETA: Must add! My kid who shuts down? The absolute worst thing for our relationship and his education was for me to lose patience with him. He is telling you something by shutting down and you will not figure out what by getting upset and griping. The turtle just draws his head further into his shell when he feels threatened and overwhelmed.

Also, some kids are slow responders, usually thoughtful, conscientious, perfectionistic kids. Also, lots of shy, quiet, anxious kids worry about being wrong. Even when we don't lose it with them, sometimes they would rather not answer at all than risk being wrong.

 

:iagree: with all of this.

Like Alte Veste, I know from personal experience with a kid who shuts down that losing patience and getting upset only makes things worse. If he's not ready, he's not ready — there's no reason in the world that a 6 year old needs to be forced through a grammar program. When he is ready, you'll move through the material much faster, without the tears and upset.

 

Jackie

[meggie]

He doesn't anymore but only because I caught on to what was happening. It took me awhile though. I was wondering why he was stopping math and rubbing the heel of his hands into his eyes. Oh, it's because I kept nagging him to hurry up before the timer went off. Yeesh. So now I have to project calm. Any hint of tension from me and he freaks out again. He's a major perfectionist. I'm pretty sure he had a hard time thinking up a name for the girl in FLL too. I just gave it a few minutes and then offered a suggestion. At that age, it's easy for them to absorb information but I think it's harder to retrieve it. So while he knows many girl names, having to think of it on the spot is an exercise in frustration. I wouldn't consider something like that to be worth frustration. The grammar part is more of what's important.

[Shmead]

 

I don't know what to do. I've tried FLL and that was a bust so I tried Evan Moor grammar workbook but that seemed too simple and he was bored. So I tried Sentence Family now. It's low-key, fun, light-hearted. But oh no, this child won't say a darn thing. He really struggled with FLL with the open-ended questions. Like the picture studies. Sometimes the text would ask, "what do you think the girl's name could be?" It would take him like 45 minutes to come up with something. He would just say, "I don't know." Or he'd cry that he had no idea what it could be. We would talk about how there is no right or wrong answer but it would just be beyond him. Finally, he'd say a name... usually his sister's name. Sigh.

 

I just want to point out the dynamic here. You told him there was no right or wrong answer, but you sigh when he picks his sister's name. On some level, that disappointed you. He likely picks up on that disappointment, which makes him even more nervous about disappointing you in the future.

[Chris in VA]

I'd skip grammar all together, or go with something really concrete, like Montessori grammar. LOVE Monti because it is SO concrete, and the materials are interesting. You can do a lot of it yourself. Here are a bunch of links, disregard if you want to.

[Snow]

This sounds so much like my son. My answer ws just to completely back off schooling until i could figure ou more what the problem was. We read books. We did a few FIAR style activities. That was counter intuitive for me, but it has worked. Now I can get 15 minutes of engaged seat work out of him by slowly starting back. I know that's not the answer for everyone, though.

 

Things I've focused on since starting back: concrete versus hypothetical/abstract, focus on easing his underlying perfectionism, and try to give him opportunities to do things his own way at every turn.

[Allearia]

He sounds a lot like my younger self. Please don't force this. You can try doing some of this privately without the sibling, but really don't do this type of activity as it sounds like it is adding a lot of stress and pain without any benefit.

 

It is hard to "get it" if you are naturally extroverted. But the more someone would push, comment sarcastically how talkative I was or even sympathetically how quiet I was, the more I would shut down. If you help with coming up with answers like that, eventually it will be easier. For example with the names, you could list some girls names, maybe even get silly with it and offer Bertha or Ziggamunda, and get him laughing about it. It is not like math facts or refusing to write a word. Sitting for 45 minutes and crying because he can't think of a name has no educational value.

 

 

[felicity]

My 10yo does this. He has his entire life and it can be very, very frustrating. Very. He hates open-ended questions, even ones like, "which shoes do you like better" when shopping for shoes for him. I spend a lot of time reassuring him that there is no right or wrong answer to this. Or when it's his birthday, "what do you want for dinner?" That carries over into schoolwork as well. So if the text asks for a name, I'll think of three names and have him pick one. Usually I think of something crazy, a sibling's name, and one I think he'll like. That's just an example. I go through his assignments on my own before I work on them with him to find where a problem might occur and try to figure out how to make it work for him. Mostly by creating a finite number of choices for him.

 

I think in his brain he goes through every single name (for example) that he's ever heard and tries to figure out the BEST NAME EVER which puts a lot of stress on him, so he just can't answer. He wants to, but he can't.

 

Every few lessons I'll leave something open-ended so he can get the feeling of what it's like to sort through and make a real decision. It helps if I'm sitting there with him, looking at it and get silly. Like if the assignment is "write a story about what it was like when Cortez landed," I'll make something up that's so crazy we can't help but laugh. It seems to help him through the panic of "oh my goodness, what if I can't do it and everyone thinks it's stupid" feeling. Even though everyone here is related to him and no one thinks he's stupid. (He's also my gifted kid.)

 

It's hard. He's my kid I worry about the most as far as functioning the "real world." He still shuts down, but I'm hoping that over time I can give him enough strategies that he won't feel like he needs to. In fact, yesterday he completely shut down at piano lessons. He's been going to the same wonderful lady for about a year and a half now, so I don't know why he did it. But we talked about how it can make other people feel and how to recognize the feelings before shutting down completely and alternatives to shutting down. Good luck and I hope this can help a little.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Also wanted to add that my quiet kid who shuts down all day will (even still) pour open his whole heart to you at night, exposing the raw nerves and revealing the hurt feelings. Something about the nighttime tuck-in and cuddle period that magically draws him out. Maybe just being one-on-one in uninterrupted quiet? (And no, it's not about staying up later because he has always been allowed to stay up for a good bit reading anyway.)

[shinyhappypeople]

:grouphug:

 

(said gently, because I've been where you're at...)

 

Stop. Allow him to participate as much or as little as he wants. It sounds like he's not ready yet. Pay attention to what he's telling you.

 

Sentence Family was originally created for a 4th grade class. It's fun and creative, but is designed for 9 and 10 year olds. It seems simple to us because we can think abstractly, but there's really a lot of challenging material in that program. My girls (age 8 and 9) are using it now and loving it, but at 6 years old, neither of them would have been ready.

 

Now, for my street cred: My older DD shut down A LOT when she was 6 and 7. I was so clueless, I didn't realize that the work was too hard, she was overwhelmed and it was all just too much for her. Naturally I responded by doing the absolute worst thing possible: I pushed. And pushed. And pushed. HUGE mistake. She learned nothing (at least not long-term), but came to believe that she was stupid. I hurt her, even though that was the last thing in the world I meant to do.

 

When kids are *ready* to learn something you might need to nudge and encourage, but you'll never have to push against a brick wall.

 

I've finally gotten a clue, backed way off, picked material that I deemed "too easy" (turns out it's JUST RIGHT for where she's at) and she's feeling smarter, more confident and enjoying our lessons more. Oh, and she's learning for real this time.

 

Less pushing, more TIME. This is not a race.

 

:grouphug: I know it's hard.

[texasmama]

Also wanted to add that my quiet kid who shuts down all day will (even still) pour open his whole heart to you at night, exposing the raw nerves and revealing the hurt feelings. Something about the nighttime tuck-in and cuddle period that magically draws him out. Maybe just being one-on-one in uninterrupted quiet? (And no, it's not about staying up later because he has always been allowed to stay up for a good bit reading anyway.)

 

I suspect we share a child. :)

[Walking-Iris]

Everything pp said and also....hearing test? A visit with an audiologist or SLP just to be sure there isn't anything getting in the way. Especially if it's an all the time, not just during certain school subjects thing.

 

I have an older child with a slight auditory processing issue. It takes a long time for him to say anything or organize his thoughts. In co-op, I've seen them ask questions I know he knows the answer too, but ....nothing.

[Izzy]

I have 2 that are kind of like that. My oldest is a concrete thinker and does not like open ended questions. My 7 year old has trouble coming up with number stories in Singapore Math but he understands the concrete math. I just help them along and don't worry too much as long as they get the concepts. 6 is still young for grammar. :)