How do you manage it when one of your children behaviours requires 100% supervision?

[CalicoKat]

My ADHD 7 yo dd (takes medication) is the one child I can guarantee that demands much of my daily time parenting/coaching. She won't/can't learn

 

--not to lie

--not to disrespect other people's personal items

--irrationally angry with others who return her lying and disrepect.

--strives to be in control of anything and everything and everybody at all times

 

I am utterly exhausted with her behaviour and dh and I are talking about putting her in PS this fall.

 

1. the amount of time we're spending with her is taking away from our time with other dc.

 

2. she's not interested in respecting boundaries of any kind and she doesn't respond to discipline of any kind.

 

3. we're concerned because although she's 2nd born she is the leader and our younger children are starting to follow her example.

 

4. it would seem by her behaviour that she doesn't want to be part of our family. I know she's young. But she's incredibily street smart (I don't know where she got that from, truly. But it's there).

 

5. dh is concerned that if/when she gets physical with me that I'll be hurt. she's already tried this with him.

[Elisabeth in IL]

:grouphug: My 10 1/2 year old is on medicine as of March. He has gotten better with age and maturity. I've read that an ADHD child is 2 years behind in his/her maturity. It seems to fit my ds. This helped me cope with his issues a little more.

[Lisa in Jax]

Well, I dealt with it by gaining weight and losing hair, but that doesn't help you, does it? ;-)

 

If I'm being serious, my answer is this: we tried meds, but they made him worse. So, we tried a gluten- and casein-free diet, along with Feingold restrictions. We started giving supplements that support impulse control and lower activity levels (in our case, this means zinc, magnesium, EFAs, Taurine, etc.).

 

We instituted an earlier bedtime, so that his dad and I got some down time from his activity/tantrums. We sent him to PS, where the structure helped him.

 

Three years later, he's doing MUCH better. Maturation, along with strict adherence to the GFCF diet, has made all the difference.

 

Hugs,

 

Lisa

[Plucky]

:grouphug: My 10 1/2 year old is on medicine as of March. He has gotten better with age and maturity. I've read that an ADHD child is 2 years behind in his/her maturity. It seems to fit my ds. This helped me cope with his issues a little more.

 

I agree with Elisabeth. My son is about 2 years behind in maturity and the ability to reason. We have numerous problems. The medicine has really helped him a lot but the rest is being consistent and gentle and hoping with time he'll get it.

 

It is so very exhausting. The other night for the first time I felt anger at him for the burden that is being placed on me. I felt so bad afterward. I've always been his tireless advocate. Yes, it's hard but keep doing the right thing by your child and it will pay off. I really believe this. :grouphug:

[bkpan]

My ADHD 7 yo dd (takes medication) is the one child I can guarantee that demands much of my daily time parenting/coaching. She won't/can't learn

 

--not to lie

--not to disrespect other people's personal items

--irrationally angry with others who return her lying and disrepect.

--strives to be in control of anything and everything and everybody at all times

 

I am utterly exhausted with her behaviour and dh and I are talking about putting her in PS this fall.

 

1. the amount of time we're spending with her is taking away from our time with other dc.

 

2. she's not interested in respecting boundaries of any kind and she doesn't respond to discipline of any kind.

 

3. we're concerned because although she's 2nd born she is the leader and our younger children are starting to follow her example.

 

4. it would seem by her behaviour that she doesn't want to be part of our family. I know she's young. But she's incredibily street smart (I don't know where she got that from, truly. But it's there).

 

5. dh is concerned that if/when she gets physical with me that I'll be hurt. she's already tried this with him.

 

Yes, I have a 7yo like this as well. We do not have the answers either, but with 5 other dc to care for, it is so hard trying to do what is best for this particular child.

 

I have often wondered about public school, but I am so afraid that that would further estrange him from the family. I just imagine that it would be so easy for him to slowly disconnect from the rest of the family over time, if he were separate from the rest of us.

 

I have never had him diagnosed, and I doubt that I ever will, but just wanted to let you know you are not alone, though I have no answers other than prayer. Constant.

 

Kim

[Sue G in PA]

Sounds like my ds7. He has Aspergers and probably a ton of other undiagnosed issues. We've debated sending him to ps b/c of the amount of time an energy it zaps from me each day. But, I'm so afraid of alienating him from the family even further than his issues already do. I can't offer any advice except to try that GFCF diet. That is so hard for my ds7 b/c carbs is all he will eat w/ the exception of a few fruits and vegetable (carrots and corn). My ds7 has good days and bad days (really, really bad days) but those are fewer and farther btwn. Maybe he's maturing? :grouphug: b/c I know how hard it is. Good luck making a decision that is best for your family.

[CalicoKat]

Well, I dealt with it by gaining weight and losing hair, but that doesn't help you, does it? ;-)

 

If I'm being serious, my answer is this: we tried meds, but they made him worse. So, we tried a gluten- and casein-free diet, along with Feingold restrictions. We started giving supplements that support impulse control and lower activity levels (in our case, this means zinc, magnesium, EFAs, Taurine, etc.).

 

We instituted an earlier bedtime, so that his dad and I got some down time from his activity/tantrums. We sent him to PS, where the structure helped him.

 

Three years later, he's doing MUCH better. Maturation, along with strict adherence to the GFCF diet, has made all the difference.

 

Hugs,

 

Lisa

We are doing the Feingold restrictions and they do help -- when she doesn't steal food from her daddy's stash. :001_huh: I can't get him to completely give up just because she can't have it.

 

She is better with that diet but the change is soooo fragile.

 

I haven't the strength to impose yet another dietary thingy on this family. DS 5 has allergies to chemicals, DD 7 added to the restriction list with her Feingold stuff, I turned diabetic a year ago. I think we'll just graze from now on in the backyard. :chillpill:

 

I suppose going gluten free might have to be another trial. Did you test for gluten and casein sensitivities?

[CalicoKat]

Sounds like my ds7. He has Aspergers and probably a ton of other undiagnosed issues. We've debated sending him to ps b/c of the amount of time an energy it zaps from me each day. But, I'm so afraid of alienating him from the family even further than his issues already do. I can't offer any advice except to try that GFCF diet. That is so hard for my ds7 b/c carbs is all he will eat w/ the exception of a few fruits and vegetable (carrots and corn). My ds7 has good days and bad days (really, really bad days) but those are fewer and farther btwn. Maybe he's maturing? :grouphug: b/c I know how hard it is. Good luck making a decision that is best for your family.

alienation is the reason she didn't get put in ps last fall. We have 4 other kids besides her at home, all homeschooled.

[CalicoKat]

Well, I dealt with it by gaining weight and losing hair, but that doesn't help you, does it? ;-)

 

If I'm being serious, my answer is this: we tried meds, but they made him worse. So, we tried a gluten- and casein-free diet, along with Feingold restrictions. We started giving supplements that support impulse control and lower activity levels (in our case, this means zinc, magnesium, EFAs, Taurine, etc.).

 

We instituted an earlier bedtime, so that his dad and I got some down time from his activity/tantrums. We sent him to PS, where the structure helped him.

 

Three years later, he's doing MUCH better. Maturation, along with strict adherence to the GFCF diet, has made all the difference.

 

Hugs,

 

Lisa

How have you gotten him to stay in bed? Bedtime is one of our major struggles--way into the night. So reality is I never get a break from this kid.

[Ottakee]

In addition to the other ideas you have here, would you say that her meds for ADHD are effective? Do you see any negative side effects? Is the dose right? It took us several meds to find the right one and the right dose.

 

Do you think there is MORE than just ADHD going on? MY 12dd has bipolar and that was clear from early on. My 11dd though we started treating for ADHD and then it became clear that she also has a mood disorder. On the right combination of meds, they are doing much better.

 

With what you say, there might be more going on than just ADHD. Can you see a developmental pediatrician, psychiatrist, or someone else to give you more insight?

[Mesa]

I also have a 7 yr old with ADHD. I'm literally exhausted and my nerves are shot by the end of each day. We've taken a month off of school now and things have a been so much nicer. We're working on him not controlling his siblings and to not touch them. He's constantly grabbing them and even knocked down my 5 yr old today. He didnt mean to but it still gets me mad he cant keep his hands to himself.

The Feingold diet helps, as well as omegas taken twice daily. We tried the meds for 2 weeks unitl I just couldnt stand the warnings on the insert I got with my script. We can get through this.... we can! I dont know how but we will.

:grouphug:

[nakitty]

What was she like BEFORE you had her medicated?

 

How many other medications have you tried?

 

Have you adjusted dosage levels?

 

Is she being seen by a psychiatrist that deals specifically with children with ADHD? Or is it just an MD?

[tribemama]

Wow, this is my 7year old! I was thinking about posting - "what to do with an out of control 7 year old" - but alas..... seems like many of us do.

We have never had him tested - although I swear that either myself or he need some sort of pills!

Actually, the pills scare me. I don't think he's ADHD - I was a camp counselor for many summers - and he doesn't remind me of any of the kids we gave meds too. Of course, I didn't know them at home.

Just today I lost control of my anger. He refused to - can't even think of what - and I told him if he didn't - he would have to go to his room. He said, "No" and stuck his tongue out at me - called me stupid and screamed at me. This kept going for a long time (mind you I am 6 months pregnant so physically putting him in his room is not an option). It was just awful. It was just an ugly scene. I feel like I have totally lost with this child. I am not sure PS will do any good besides giving me a break - but then I feel he is losing out on his family.

Whenever, we try to do school work - it is a huge fight. He is still not reading, his writing is awful, he is still figuring out his numbers. Unless I put a huge incentive for him to work for that day - it is just an amazing battle. Even then he will say "I don't care," and not do anything. I try to set the timer and only do x-amount of minutes for a subject - but that could be the amount of time just for him to even look at the page!

I will look into this diet. Never heard of it. I am just so down about this - It takes forever to get a referral to see a psych and then I don't think meds is the answer - which is all they will give us. I need to figure out how to work with him, with me. If that makes sense. What incentive can I give him that would be fair for the other kids I am homeschooling? What discipline can I do if he does not listen? Taking away privileges seems to do nothing and then usually find something in pieces afterward.

Sorry for rambling.... Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Tribemama

Mother to the Tribe

DS(15),DS(11),DD(9),DS(7),DD(3),DS(2), and human arriving sometime in Oct....

[Lisa in Jax]

How have you gotten him to stay in bed? Bedtime is one of our major struggles--way into the night. So reality is I never get a break from this kid.

 

That was one of the reasons we stopped using stimulants -- he didn't eat well, and had a hard time falling asleep.

 

He always (since we adopted him at age 4) has had a hard time falling asleep, but meds made it worse. So, at our pediatrician's suggestion, we gave 2mg melatonin 1 hr before bedtime.

 

It saved us -- and him. He goes right to sleep now, and we get some peace. And, when he slept better/longer, he was much less oppositional during the day.

 

He still takes it. If we skip a dose, he's usually fine, but for the first 6 months or a year, he needed it nightly.

 

Another thing that helps is epsom salts baths. Start with 1/4c epsom salts in a comfortably hot bath, and let him soak/play for 20 minutes or more. Gradually work up to 1c per bath per night. The epsom salts (magesium sulfate) are absorbed through the skin, and add magnesium to his body w/o causing diarrhea the way pills might. They also help him do some methylation processes that require sulfation. (In a nutshell, it helps him make and break down healthy neurotransmitters, by providing the sulfate for the processes that require it.)

 

It's also relaxing, b/c magnesium relaxes the muscles.

 

HIH,

 

Lisa

[Joyce TN]

My step son was on meds for ADHD and I don't feel like they helped at all. When the kids dad died my now 11 yr old became very unruly, due to the circumstances I was patient, but it got to where he was uncontrollable. We started going to counseling which in my opinion was just a time to play with new toys for him. She had me due the evaluation, but he did not come up ADHD or ADD. I'm curious to know if your child feels remorse when she does something wrong or does she just blow it off. My step son was like that but my 11 year old is not. While he tries to run the show I remind him I'm the mom and I'll take care of things. He seems worried like if he doesn't take things into control no one else will, but he appears bossy, demanding, and controlling. The only punishment that has ever worked for this child is to put him in his room away from everyone else, a half hour and I have a new child. Of course all children are different and respond differently, it's a matter of finding out what it is that will work. Someone else said pray, and I agree it is the one sure thing we can do. I know of others who have had children like this and I hear they grow up to be wonderful people, so there is hope.

Oh I almost forgot to mention the times he tried to get physical with me. All he did was raise his hand to me, I grabbed him and used my Tae Kwon Do training to put him down, I did not hurt him I just let him know I don't care if he is bigger than me he will not get away with it. Needless to say he tried it again and got the same result, he has not tried it since. I want to also mention that he was so upset by this I had to restrain him for about twenty minutes until he calmed down. While not everyone has martial arts training I encourage you to take a stand right away against any type of physical threat. You don't have to hurt them just let them know that type of behavior will not be tolerated. It is scary when one of your own children threatens you in this manner, but if it is not stopped who knows where it will led.

[Amy in NH]

Since you mentioned sleep issues: A child psychologist I used to work for, who diagnosed cases of ADHD, once told me that a large majority of ADHD cases are actually undiagnosed sleep disorders. He said that instead of stimulants during the day, many of these kids would be better served by sleep studies and sleeping medications at night. However, he also stated that, like all medications, it is hit or miss to find the right med for the particular child. Most parents give up on the sleep angle if/when the first sleeping medication doesn't work... they don't go on to try another sleep medication, but usually end up going the daytime-stimulant route which is less effective.

 

Just a thought.

[klmama]

I PM'ed you! :)

[CalicoKat]

That was one of the reasons we stopped using stimulants -- he didn't eat well, and had a hard time falling asleep.

 

He always (since we adopted him at age 4) has had a hard time falling asleep, but meds made it worse. So, at our pediatrician's suggestion, we gave 2mg melatonin 1 hr before bedtime.

 

It saved us -- and him. He goes right to sleep now, and we get some peace. And, when he slept better/longer, he was much less oppositional during the day.

 

He still takes it. If we skip a dose, he's usually fine, but for the first 6 months or a year, he needed it nightly.

 

Another thing that helps is epsom salts baths. Start with 1/4c epsom salts in a comfortably hot bath, and let him soak/play for 20 minutes or more. Gradually work up to 1c per bath per night. The epsom salts (magesium sulfate) are absorbed through the skin, and add magnesium to his body w/o causing diarrhea the way pills might. They also help him do some methylation processes that require sulfation. (In a nutshell, it helps him make and break down healthy neurotransmitters, by providing the sulfate for the processes that require it.)

 

It's also relaxing, b/c magnesium relaxes the muscles.

 

HIH,

 

Lisa

Great suggestions. We'll start this today. She ate 1/4 of a cake last night while we all slept. A cake she made that we were going to serve to company today.

 

I don't want to lock her in her bedroom but I need to know when she's up walking around getting into trouble.

[CalicoKat]

Since you mentioned sleep issues: A child psychologist I used to work for, who diagnosed cases of ADHD, once told me that a large majority of ADHD cases are actually undiagnosed sleep disorders. He said that instead of stimulants during the day, many of these kids would be better served by sleep studies and sleeping medications at night. However, he also stated that, like all medications, it is hit or miss to find the right med for the particular child. Most parents give up on the sleep angle if/when the first sleeping medication doesn't work... they don't go on to try another sleep medication, but usually end up going the daytime-stimulant route which is less effective.

 

Just a thought.

interesting.

 

I've always considered her my best sleeper, but now that you mention it she has always been up during the night walking around. We call it sleep walking, but she's not always asleep. Even before medication this was happening. She sleeps in late each morning and I'm happy to let her because this is the only time I get away from her behaviour.

[Laurie4b]

There are some good behavior specialists that deal with this kind of behavior. Conduct disorder, oppositional-defiant disorder, and mood disorders are all commonly co-morbid with ADHD. You are describing Conduct disorder. You want to look for a specialist in ADHD who works behaviorally with clients (not someone that listens to feelings.) Having someone objective to help you with adjusting how you respond can be very helpful. One thing that's aggravating about ADHD kids is that the behavior programs need to change pretty often because the same reinforcers don't work consistently.

 

One theory on why so many other disorders are co-morbid with ADHD is that the child's stress at not fitting into his/her environment is the root of other behaviors.

 

In addition to finding the right specialist, here are some things that might help:

 

1) My strongest recommendation is an occupational therapy evaluation. Most ADHD also has sensory integration issues underlying it. If the child's neurological system is constantly off-kilter, the world is a very aversive place. The book, THe Out of Sync Child has very good checklists that can give you an idea of whether this might be your child's experience. She is at the top of the age where treatment is optimal, so I would get the eval ASAP. The therapy will be something that she enjoys. It changed my son's life. He also was 7. Some things were permanently changed; others got to the place where we can make accomodations.

 

2) Get the sleep disorder checked out. Think of how irritable you are when you don't have enough sleep.

 

3) Make sure that she is outside in nature a large chunk of each day. It is very calming to kids with ADHD. Natural surroundings are missing from a lot of our lives.

 

4) Break down the school day into 10 min. segments. Go for success. Let her have small breaks in between. Let her chew gum while she's working.

 

5) The Feingold diet works really well for about 10% of ADHD kids, not at all for others. You may want to look at other food allergies, as well. It can help, but it's not the magic bullet in all cases. Fish oil has solid research behind it in terms of helping ADHD kids.

 

6) Given your feelings right now, going to ps is a rejection of her. It's natural when you have a child who causes so much frustration, but rejection is going to worsen the conduct disorder. You will have to draw deep for the ability to connect with her in a positive way while holding very firm on behavioral limits. This is where a good behavioral specialist can help. The other thing that is imperative is that you get some respite from dealing with her, so that you can tank back up. A family member or babysitter who will take dd would be good. There are also respite care agencies for special needs kids.

 

If you send her to ps, keep in mind that it is not likely to function as respite. Rather than solving the problems, you'll likely be in there for conferences with the principal all the time and you'll never know when you're going to get one of those phone calls. The school will expect you to handle the behavior problems that they are having with her. She'll end up suspended and back home if she's aggressive, defiant, steals, etc. I'm not saying don't send her. I'm saying don't expect that it will lessen your stress. The gain of days when you don't get the calls is offset by never knowing when the calls will come.

 

I would say be very careful about sending her if there can't be a positive message attached to it. If what she senses is rejection, you'll be in for worse behavior at home. I want to make sure that I'm communicating that what you describe feeling is totally normal, but you'll have to find a way to work around it or through it to reach her. You might check out support groups in your area to see if there are any for parents of special needs kids. It doesn't matter what the special need is; the commonalities are much broader than the differences for the parents. Parents have to deal with chronic frustration, grief, helplessness, and sometimes hopelessness. Knowing that you're not alone and having support from others in the same boat is a major help.

[Ashleen]

She ate 1/4 of a cake last night while we all slept. A cake she made that we were going to serve to company today.

 

My 7 yr old son with similar issues also does this sort of thing. If we have any kind of junk food or dessert in the house, he will get up while we're sleeping and gorge on it. We had his blood sugar tested and the doctor said that it's not a blood sugar issue.

[ClassicMom]

:grouphug:

 

My 5yo has ASD and ADHD. I can totally relate and my dh is a trucker.

I am totally exhausted when my son finally collapses sometime around 11:30-12:00 and he is ready to roll again before 7:00 a.m.

 

I think it was mentioned before, but make sure that he is actually tested by a Psychologist and not just a M.D. You could be dealing with more than just ADHD. I also agree with the supplements, especially Omega 3.

 

Check out Dianne Craft's website and her discussion of Acidophilus. We've just started our kids on it so I can't tell you if it's working or not, but she's had great success with it. She's also got the background scientific basis to back it up.

 

I second the melatonin at bedtime. It can't hurt him and it may help him wind down. I'd give it right before the bath.

 

Just keep in close contact with your physician and psychologist. There could be dosage issues and/ or the medication could just not be right. We've been through a lot of them.

 

Routine and structure also play a big part. These kids have to know what's expected when. I know it's hard, but it's easier that what you are doing now.

 

Granted, I'm still dealing with a lot of the issues you are, but my son also struggles with Autism and we are working the bugs out of his meds. But he is much better than he was a year ago and many of the things listed above have contributed to the improvement.

 

I know it's difficult to decide what to do regarding PS or home, but he may become more discouraged and frustrated in that environment; especially if he knows that all of his siblings have been allowed to continue homeschooling. He's also going to have a hard time transitioning after school. The only plus would be the structure and if you could provide that at home, it would be great. We do send our son to school PT, but only to get the therapy services that we cannot afford and the transition time when he gets home is horrible. The things that he picks up at school aren't all that great either because he picks up the things that most kids wouldn't or at least know not to tell mom. And there is about an hour where his aggression is twice as bad as usual.

 

I don't know if this helps or not, I'm just sharing our experiences to lend some input.

 

May God bless your family and give you wisdom in your decisions. :grouphug: