Does my homeschooled student need a 504 or IEP?

[bluedarling]

The school still hasn't done testing on my son, but I'm trying to read up to start getting an idea of what I hope to gain out of this. When in school in 3rd/4th grade he had an IEP (he couldn't read, write, or do math at level.) Now...I KNOW without a doubt that he needs accomodations, but I'm trying to figure out if he needs an IEP. A friend (whose son has more severe issues than my own) says she gets an IEP in case her son is ever placed in school due to extenuating circumstances...at least he has everything in place to be able to succeed. That makes sense....other than if he has an IEP...I'm the one who has to make sure its met!! Part of the reason he came back home was that I didn't want to have to fight the schools over the IEP. But...now my student is 15yo. He wants to go to college (probably community college...he's hoping to utilize Running Start and start college soon...I'm putting him off because he's not ready.) So...is it time to go ahead with an IEP, or is a 504 sufficient to help him in college? If he were placed in high school right now...he wouldn't do very well. :-( Mainly because of slow processing, short term memory difficulty, dysgraphia and poor executive function. Accommodation/Modifications would be necessary. But goals on an IEP? Help me understand what the benefits of the IEP might be. I'm having trouble imagining what would go on the IEP.

[Pen]

I don't know how it can help you. How it helps us could perhaps give you some ideas: My son has an IEP right now which allows:

 

 

 

 

• 
  

1/2 hour per week at the local school currently (he does grammar and spelling there), and

 

 

 

 

• 
  

allows him to take an end of year test (required state testing) that is not time limited, and where for subjects other than reading itself, he can ask for help reading the directions or word problems etc.--that is the way this particular test is done for everyone, so it is not an unusual accommodation in that regard, but is a help compared to the regular std. tests that homeschoolers here have to take.).

 

 

 

 

• 
  

It also means that he needs to make progress as dictated by his IEP rather than the usual state requirements (although last year he met both), which is a little bit of help (or at least reduces stress) for an area like writing where he is still not caught up to where his peers are. If he does well on the writing test at the end of the year, that will be excellent. If he does not, it is still all right though since he made progress as per the IEP. Well, I can still worry that he may never manage to write as I hope for him, but at least he does not fail homeschool requirements for our state.

 

 

 

 

• 
  

It gives access to the school's library and, a few times has meant I could borrow a schoolbook and not have to buy it.

 

 

 

 

• 
  

It has given a group of other people with whom to discuss how he is doing and get ideas from during the IEP meetings (there are lots of fantastic ideas here in these forums, but sometimes someone who has seen his actual work and abilities and difficulties can add something valuable). It gives some added assessments, which can help to pick up if something is not working. More evaluation will probably be needed at some point, but it was a start toward getting evaluations done.

[Guest eoffg2]

You wrote that you; 'KNOW without a doubt that he needs accommodations,...'

 

Section 504 is a law that protects one against discrimination.

But the provision of accommodations is just an option that may be provided.

Whereas an IEP, defines a legal entitlement to accommodations.

 

Where he will need these accommodations when he goes to college, and also when he enters the workforce.

So that it would be best to have them defined now.

Where a history of accommodations makes things easier.

Also you could have the school pay for the testing now, but later on, you will have to pay for it.

But he will also have to learn how to advocate for his accommodations.

 

So that I would suggest taking a longer term view, where for example his dysgraphia will be life long issue?

So an IEP will identify accommodations/ modifications that he will carry through life.

[Χά�ων]

An IEP will not help him in college but most community colleges are willing to work with you to provide reasonable accommadations.

 

If it were me, I would contact the nearest community college and talk with them about accommadations and what they offer. I would have him audit a class to get an idea of where he needs help. I would probably even audit the class along side him to see first hand where he needs help. That will give you an idea of what exactly to ask for. Maybe more tme on a test. Maybe using someone elses notes.

[8filltheheart]

IEPs and 504s do not carry over to college. In order to receive accommodations at the college level you are going to have to have testing that is less than 3 yrs old that demonstrates why the accommodations are needed and a letter from a psy stipulating what the requested accommodations are.

 

Typical examples are 1 1/2 time on tests, sitting up front during class, using a recording device during class, quiet testing environment, etc.

 

HTH

[Dmmetler]

One good reason for having the IEP/504 NOW-without one that's established and shown to have been in use over time, your DC will not be able to get accommodations on the SAT/ACT. Colleges are much easier to work with than the college board folks on this regard-they'll take fairly recent test results and put together an appropriate plan, but the College board takes the position that if you haven't had it in the past, you don't really need it.

[Tokyomarie]

An IEP is a legal document that addresses a student's need for special ed services from birth- age 21, or earlier if the student graduates from high school. It is based on the federal law commonly known as IDEA 2004. If a student qualifies for specialized teaching and/or ancillary services such as PT, OT, Speech, the school will draft an IEP. However, each state has differing provisions for allowing or not allowing homeschool students to receive special ed services at school.

 

During the K-12 years, a 504 plan can be drafted when a student does not qualified for teaching or therapy services but does qualify for accommodations to allow him/her to take full advantage of the the education offered. These accommodations include, but are not limited to, extended time for tests and assignments and the use of assistive technology such as speech-to-text or text-to-speech software or use of a laptop for taking notes in a classroom when the teacher otherwise prohibits such use.

 

Accommodations in the college classroom or the work environment are legally governed by Section 504. As has been stated, the college disability office will need to be provided with a copy of the student's most recent evaluation report, preferably no older than 3 years. Depending on the nature of the disability, and the specific college in question, sometimes older reports are accepted. Most times, when a student seeks accommodations from the college, they need to provide an outside report. There are some community colleges that will provide testing services for enrolled students who suspect they have a learning disabiity but have never been tested. If a student has a 504 plan from high school, the college will take that plan into consideration, but they draft their own 504 accommodation plan based on what they typically offer students with a similar disability. In college, any accommodation that would significantly modify the requirements of the course and/or graduation requirements is usually not provided because education at that level is not a right or obligation, as is K-12 education.

 

We did not use the public school for any aspect of our son's education until he was entering 11th grade. He now attends a hybrid high school/community college program full time. It took a full school year to get a 504 plan in place and required additional testing from school personnel beyond the already extensive private testing we had done. When that report was done, the evaluator made sure to note the extensive history of remediation my son had received through the years, both through our home education and later through private educational therapists. Along with the multiple detailed evaluations, I believe these statements by that particular evaluator which documented our home-based and private remediation and accommodations helped us gain the desired accommodations from the Collegeboard.

 

For good information on IEPs vs. 504s, check out Wrightslaw, as well as your state and local district special education webpages.

[bluedarling]

I don't know how it can help you. How it helps us could perhaps give you some ideas: My son has an IEP right now which allows:

 

1/2 hour per week at the local school currently (he does grammar and spelling there), and

 

allows him to take an end of year test (required state testing) that is not time limited, and where for subjects other than reading itself, he can ask for help reading the directions or word problems etc.--that is the way this particular test is done for everyone, so it is not an unusual accommodation in that regard, but is a help compared to the regular std. tests that homeschoolers here have to take.).

 

It also means that he needs to make progress as dictated by his IEP rather than the usual state requirements (although last year he met both), which is a little bit of help (or at least reduces stress) for an area like writing where he is still not caught up to where his peers are. If he does well on the writing test at the end of the year, that will be excellent. If he does not, it is still all right though since he made progress as per the IEP. Well, I can still worry that he may never manage to write as I hope for him, but at least he does not fail homeschool requirements for our state.

 

It gives access to the school's library and, a few times has meant I could borrow a schoolbook and not have to buy it.

 

It has given a group of other people with whom to discuss how he is doing and get ideas from during the IEP meetings (there are lots of fantastic ideas here in these forums, but sometimes someone who has seen his actual work and abilities and difficulties can add something valuable). It gives some added assessments, which can help to pick up if something is not working. More evaluation will probably be needed at some point, but it was a start toward getting evaluations done.

 

Thanks! That is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Its possible they may offer help in spelling/grammar, but I'm not really looking for that. I'd be more interested in them providing assistive technology for those issues, and I'm not sure if thats under 504 or IEP. By doing the SAT-10 as our standardized testing (at home), there's no writing test, and unlimited time....perfect for him! He does it over 4 days (since he has to wait for me to test siblings individually), so it helps avoid long testing periods, too! I have no reason to test him at school. As for having them give ideas.....that would not have happened in FL (yet they were wonderful about assistive technology!!), but possibly here...I have no idea what to expect here in WA!!

[Pen]

Thanks! That is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Its possible they may offer help in spelling/grammar, but I'm not really looking for that. I'd be more interested in them providing assistive technology for those issues, and I'm not sure if thats under 504 or IEP. By doing the SAT-10 as our standardized testing (at home), there's no writing test, and unlimited time....perfect for him! He does it over 4 days (since he has to wait for me to test siblings individually), so it helps avoid long testing periods, too! I have no reason to test him at school. As for having them give ideas.....that would not have happened in FL (yet they were wonderful about assistive technology!!), but possibly here...I have no idea what to expect here in WA!!

 

Maybe start by looking up WA rules (both homeschool rules and also what the schools do for homeschoolers in regard to IEPs) since each state is different. My state's main requirements for homeschool are to get a certain level in stdzd. tests, and it does not accept home administered standardized testing.

 

If you figure out what the requirements are and whether he will need help to meet those, and also figure out what you would ideally like help with if they can provide that help, then you can move to next stage of seeing what might come from an IEP (or 504).

 

The goals part is not a big deal--they are just written as something to set as a target for next accomplishment level--and the school people write them. They are generally set a little high actually, and then scaled back if needed. None of the goals on our IEP are anything that I have to then meet in a difficult way. Mainly they are what he is supposed to accomplish in his time at the ps.

 

Here, in order to fit the rules, he is registered both as a homeschooler and at the ps where he has his IEP. The IEP ends when he gets up to a certain range from grade level in the area it covered, at which point he no longer qualifies. This aspect will become a problem because he still has dyslexia issues even though he now reads at or above grade level. At some point I will have to go farther to figure out how I will be able to get him the time he will need on things like SAT, which will mean further evaluation and documentation beyond the current IEP.

 

There are kids there in IEPs who have things like a school laptop to use while in school for help with spelling and so on. But I do not think that this sort of technology goes home either for them or would for a homeschooler. But things like that are probably locally based according to resources. You might get access to things like LearningAlly if you do not yet have it and need it, however.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Pen

[bluedarling]

Section 504 is a law that protects one against discrimination.

But the provision of accommodations is just an option that may be provided.

Whereas an IEP, defines a legal entitlement to accommodations.

 

 

Oh, I misunderstood! I just looked at a sample IEP for my state, and see they have accommodations listed there....I thought the accommodations were on a 504. So, I guess I will need an IEP. But doesn't that then mean we have to set goals? Ugh.

 

But he will also have to learn how to advocate for his accommodations.

 

 

This is very important! And something he does not do! He has never in his homeschool/school career EVER admitted he needed help. If he gets stuck, he just sits there like a bump on a log, or refuses to do it. The best he might do is argue its an unfair requirement. But admit he needs help...NEVER! I guess there's an IEP goal....will learn to ask for help!

[FairProspects]

Thanks! That is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Its possible they may offer help in spelling/grammar, but I'm not really looking for that. I'd be more interested in them providing assistive technology for those issues, and I'm not sure if thats under 504 or IEP. By doing the SAT-10 as our standardized testing (at home), there's no writing test, and unlimited time....perfect for him! He does it over 4 days (since he has to wait for me to test siblings individually), so it helps avoid long testing periods, too! I have no reason to test him at school. As for having them give ideas.....that would not have happened in FL (yet they were wonderful about assistive technology!!), but possibly here...I have no idea what to expect here in WA!!

 

I'm in WA too. If you are just looking for permission to use assistive technologies on testing, then those accommodations are easily accomplished with a 504 plan. If you are wanting the school to PAY for those technologies, like a word processing program or a computer, you will need an IEP which has monies attached. Be aware though that IME, it is VERY difficult to get an IEP. In most districts you have to be 2 standard deviations or 2 grade levels behind in work to qualify for an IEP because there are so many students trying to access services and you will need solid documentation. We have not had difficulty getting 504 plan accommodations with no money attached.

 

Oh, I misunderstood! I just looked at a sample IEP for my state, and see they have accommodations listed there....I thought the accommodations were on a 504. So, I guess I will need an IEP. But doesn't that then mean we have to set goals? Ugh.

 

 

Accommodations can be accomplished by a 504, it is whether or not you need funding for services that is the main difference. :) Both require testing and a report though.

[bluedarling]

If a student qualifies for specialized teaching and/or ancillary services such as PT, OT, Speech, the school will draft an IEP. However, each state has differing provisions for allowing or not allowing homeschool students to receive special ed services at school.

 

 

Thanks...that helps me better know what to expect.

 

During the K-12 years, a 504 plan can be drafted when a student does not qualified for teaching or therapy services but does qualify for accommodations to allow him/her to take full advantage of the the education offered. These accommodations include, but are not limited to, extended time for tests and assignments and the use of assistive technology such as speech-to-text or text-to-speech software or use of a laptop for taking notes in a classroom when the teacher otherwise prohibits such use.

 

 

OK! That sounds like what I was looking for. Here's the sticky question.....can he still get 504 accommodations without a diagnosis? Our doc suggested we start with a diagnosis, but I think something happened on the 6 month waitlist....its been like a year and we never heard anything. I'm not sure we really made the waitlist. And...he's doing so well now that I didn't see a need to pursue...but having a diagnosis would help him get the accommodations? Or would the fact he had a LD in the past be enough?

 

Thanks for the info on what accomodations are like in college. That is helpful.

 

When that report was done, the evaluator made sure to note the extensive history of remediation my son had received through the years, both through our home education and later through private educational therapists. Along with the multiple detailed evaluations, I believe these statements by that particular evaluator which documented our home-based and private remediation and accommodations helped us gain the desired accommodations from the Collegeboard.

 

 

Good to know! He has a history of OT and VT, but the academic remediation is more confusing. I have no records of his remediation/accommodations used in homeschool, though obviously I have done it. Its not like I can say, "Oh, he did Barton to remediate his reading,"....I just kept trying new things all the time until something worked. Maybe I should try to put together a list of accommodations I have used in homeschool? The thing is, he doesn't need as many accommodations at home, because his work has been adjusted to fit him...he doesn't have to take lecture notes, etc. BUT, he does get a lot of extra time. A LOT. Knowing what I already do/have done might be a good exercise to know what he needs! Though I think he'd need far more help in a traditional classroom.

[FairProspects]

OK! That sounds like what I was looking for. Here's the sticky question.....can he still get 504 accommodations without a diagnosis? Our doc suggested we start with a diagnosis, but I think something happened on the 6 month waitlist....its been like a year and we never heard anything. I'm not sure we really made the waitlist. And...he's doing so well now that I didn't see a need to pursue...but having a diagnosis would help him get the accommodations? Or would the fact he had a LD in the past be enough?

 

No, you need a diagnosis. Having a diagnosis would help him get the accommodations. They have to document why he gets the accommodations otherwise every football player who wants to do better on the SAT for NCAA eligibility would ask for a 504 plan for extended time, kwim?

[bluedarling]

No, you need a diagnosis. Having a diagnosis would help him get the accommodations. They have to document why he gets the accommodations otherwise every football player who wants to do better on the SAT for NCAA eligibility would ask for a 504 plan for extended time, kwim?

 

Ack!!! I sign the documents for LD testing on the 20th. So...I should have pursued dx first....but now that the ball is rolling with the school...now I'm not sure what to do! The doc said there was a 6 month waiting list for the doctor she recommended....

 

So...I get LD testing, and it comes out less than 2 standard devs (a possibility) then I go get a dx. Once he has a dx, can I go back to the school for a 504? Or because the school just evaluated him, is everything ruined?

 

Should I tell the school to hold off while I go get a dx? (After all, so far all that's happened is I requested an evaluation.

 

This would put it out another 6 months? He'll be right at 16 by then!!

 

And what about son #2. Probably milder writing issue...definitely ADHD, but no diagnosis. (Some things in common with Aspergers/HFA...like verbal noise-making/stemming, but mostly ADHD.) He's the most likely not to qualify for an IEP....so you're suggesting that even if I don't want meds or help for ADHD, that he get dx so he can get accommodations? He's definitely college bound....but would dx limit him then from military service or other jobs? Ugh.

[FairProspects]

Ack!!! I sign the documents for LD testing on the 20th. So...I should have pursued dx first....but now that the ball is rolling with the school...now I'm not sure what to do! The doc said there was a 6 month waiting list for the doctor she recommended....

 

So...I get LD testing, and it comes out less than 2 standard devs (a possibility) then I go get a dx. Once he has a dx, can I go back to the school for a 504? Or because the school just evaluated him, is everything ruined?

 

The LD testing could result in a 504 or IEP too so no need to worry. In our case, ds was not 2 standard deviations behind so the school testing resulted in nothing. That is when I went and got private testing and dx done, so yes, if nothing comes of the school eval, you can get your own testing done and come back for the 504. The school testing will not ruin it, they may just tell you he is not far enough behind to qualify for services.

 

And what about son #2. Probably milder writing issue...definitely ADHD, but no diagnosis. (Some things in common with Aspergers/HFA...like verbal noise-making/stemming, but mostly ADHD.) He's the most likely not to qualify for an IEP....so you're suggesting that even if I don't want meds or help for ADHD, that he get dx so he can get accommodations? He's definitely college bound....but would dx limit him then from military service or other jobs? Ugh.

 

I can't speak to how a dx would affect military service or other jobs. However, if you want testing accommodations, you need to pursue some kind of school LD or private testing, even if you don't want meds. It is a personal call as to whether you want the dx on your ds's medical records, but the accommodations follow the dx. There is money attached to services and teacher salary time involved in creating and conferencing on these plans, so they are not just going to offer services to anyone.

[Lecka]

Recently the rule for the Army is that a person must have gone a year without using a prescription they are dependent on. There has not been a requirement to have never used Ritalin/been diagnosed with ADHD/been treated by a psychiatrist (whatever it was exactly) etc. anymore, though there used to be several years ago.

 

I think your best bet is to talk to a recruiter. Right now the Army doesn't seem really stable as it has in the past. A lot of people are not being allowed to re-enlist b/c they are cutting numbers. Even good people! My husband just re-enlisted for indefinite and they were only allowing so many people in his batallion to re-enlist at his rank. Etc. etc.

 

However the thing about the military is that any requirement can possibly be waivered. So, if someone is very, very strong, or the numbers are really not good, the recruiting batallion can apply for a waiver for any requirement. Or they might be allocated a certain number of waivers for a period of time, for them to give to the people they think are the best candidates. A few years ago that was the set-up for GEDs, then numbers were low and they quit capping the number of people with a GED. I don't know what it is now.

 

Anyway, it is worth talking to them, they would be able to tell you. Though it could change.

 

Right now there was just a build up in numbers for my husband's field, and not they are cutting his field. I am sure there are areas much less affected and the recruiter might know that also.

 

But unless it has changed back very recently, there is no problem with a previous diagnosis of ADHD. There is an issue with any medication that is being used regularly, with the idea that it might be too hard to get a supply of it if the person was deployed in a hardship area. Yet you can be okay to start taking daily medications after you are in.

[Pen]

Oh, I misunderstood! I just looked at a sample IEP for my state, and see they have accommodations listed there....I thought the accommodations were on a 504. So, I guess I will need an IEP. But doesn't that then mean we have to set goals? Ugh.

 

 

 

This is very important! And something he does not do! He has never in his homeschool/school career EVER admitted he needed help. If he gets stuck, he just sits there like a bump on a log, or refuses to do it. The best he might do is argue its an unfair requirement. But admit he needs help...NEVER! I guess there's an IEP goal....will learn to ask for help!

 

 

The "goals" part IME is not such an "ugh"... you discuss it with the team, and then goals get written.

 

You probably set homeschool goals anyway, don't you? Like if he is doing addition, you set a goal of learning subtraction next. Or if on CVC words, you want to go to CVCe words. It is just goals, like in life. If that has not been happening, then goal setting, like asking for help, could indeed be goals!!!

 

Possibly more of an issue can be answering an IEP's question (if you get an IEP, and if the forms are the same in WA as here) of why the child should be in homeschooling rather than at the public school. In my ds case he had been at bricks and mortars schools and it had not gone well. Reason for homeschool being best for him was that he does not do well with distraction. There could have been other reasons given, but that one satisfied the requirements.

 

Good luck!

Edited November 15, 2012 by Pen

[bluedarling]

Recently the rule for the Army is that a person must have gone a year without using a prescription they are dependent on. There has not been a requirement to have never used Ritalin/been diagnosed with ADHD/been treated by a psychiatrist (whatever it was exactly) etc. anymore, though there used to be several years ago.

 

I think your best bet is to talk to a recruiter. Right now the Army doesn't seem really stable as it has in the past. A lot of people are not being allowed to re-enlist b/c they are cutting numbers. Even good people! My husband just re-enlisted for indefinite and they were only allowing so many people in his batallion to re-enlist at his rank. Etc. etc.

 

However the thing about the military is that any requirement can possibly be waivered. So, if someone is very, very strong, or the numbers are really not good, the recruiting batallion can apply for a waiver for any requirement. Or they might be allocated a certain number of waivers for a period of time, for them to give to the people they think are the best candidates. A few years ago that was the set-up for GEDs, then numbers were low and they quit capping the number of people with a GED. I don't know what it is now.

 

Anyway, it is worth talking to them, they would be able to tell you. Though it could change.

 

Right now there was just a build up in numbers for my husband's field, and not they are cutting his field. I am sure there are areas much less affected and the recruiter might know that also.

 

But unless it has changed back very recently, there is no problem with a previous diagnosis of ADHD. There is an issue with any medication that is being used regularly, with the idea that it might be too hard to get a supply of it if the person was deployed in a hardship area. Yet you can be okay to start taking daily medications after you are in.

 

This was SO helpful. Excluding military service career options was a concern, and the boys feel much better about a diagnosis knowing its not going to automatically prevent career options. This has changed since I last looked into it, so I'm glad we're more up-to-date. This really helped our decision to diagnose. So, thanks!

[bluedarling]

UPDATE: I spoke with the school psychologist to get her opinion on whether I should have a diagnosis before starting this process. Instead of really answering that question, she started trying to convince me that we really didn't need to test if all we were after was accommodations....she said to just get a 504 (because with older kids, its really about accommodations at that point anyway.) She also said that IF I go through with the testing, and end up with an IEP, and I reject the IEP, I automatically reject the 504, as well. She said I have to accept or reject the entire IEP as a whole with any services they offer. This just sounds WRONG! I feel like its a way for the school to bully me into a 504. It seems important to me that a child with a known learning disability and a previous IEP should be retested! And an IEP could help my son "adjust" to a classroom. She just activated my stubborn side....now I am determined to get an IEP!! As for the diagnosis first....guess I'll get that as soon as I'm able, but other than that not worry about it.

 

 

Sorry if there are a lot of typos....I don't have my glasses on, and can't see what I'm typing.Please forgive my typos.

[Tokyomarie]

I think you need to figure out what you want to accomplish *at this time* by having interaction with the school:

 

Is it your hope to have new testing done by the school? If so, what is *your* purpose for having new testing done at this time?

 

Are you trying mainly to establish a paper trail of professionals who state that your child/student needs accommodations x,y,z in order to succeed in the classroom and on standardized testing so that when your son goes into the Running Start program that information is already available?

 

Are you hoping the school will actually provide you with services to help remediate problems a,b, or c, such as improving written expression, improving social pragmatic language, etc?

 

Whatever your goals may be, if you wish to have the school district involved, your first step is to write a letter to the special education coordinator stating that your son has academic and/or social/behavioral difficulties that are observed in your home education setting. You do not need to elaborate profusely, but briefly name up to 3 or 4 items. Then request that those difficulties be evaluated by the school district. The first thing a district needs to do is a review of existing educational data, so they will want to review the previous IEP and any data they generated while he was in school before. If you have data from outside evaluations, you can provide that to the school. Then they will determine whether to proceed to a new evaluation. Whether you are hoping for an IEP or a 504, the evaluation done by the district is the next step.

 

Only AFTER the evaluation is completed can there be a discussion of IEP vs. 504. The evaluation will provide the data needed to determine if your son is a student with an eligible disability, and whether he is eligible for teaching or therapy services (written into an IEP) or whether he is eligible for accommodations only (written into a 504 plan). Students who receive special ed services typically also have accommodations. Those accommodations are written into the IEP document.

 

If the student is determined to be eligible for services and/or accommodations, AND homeschoolers in your state are eligible to have an IEP or 504 Plan, then there will be a meeting to determine which services and/or accommodations will be most beneficial. If the Team, and you are a member of the team, agrees that services are needed, an IEP will be drafted with goals listed and how those goals will be met. If the student is determined to be eligible for accommodations only, then a 504 Plan can be drafted.

 

I do not believe you are required to accept remediation services if you wish to provide them through private sources and/or do the remediation yourself. You'll need to read the law carefully on these details, however.

 

As for establishing a diagnosis, the school district's evaluation will provide whatever educational label applies to your son based on the evaluation they do. You do not need to walk into the district with a diagnosis in hand prior to whatever testing they do. However, be aware that often the evaluation they do (usually IQ, a basic individual achievement test, and sometimes additional tests of reading and written expression) is not detailed enough to provide all the information you might want to learn how to help your son be a more successful student. For instance, if you are looking to determine whether your son qualifies for a diagnosis of ADHD and/or autistic spectrum, it would be more beneficial to seek the services of a private neuropsychologist. If you are looking to better determine the nature of his academic LDs and how best to help him, again a private neuropsychologist may be where you want to go.

 

As for establishing a paper trail showing the necessity of accommodations, the report of a fully licensed private pysychologist will be just as helpful as a report from a school district. Just make sure the report documents the accommodations you provide for him at home (such as untimed testing, scribing for him, etc). Since your son had an IEP in elementary school, that is part of the paper trail already.

 

Bottome line:

 

What is your primary goal? Then decide what is the best way to meet that goal. Just remember that if you wish to get the school district to write an IEP or a 504, the evaluation process is the gateway to either plan AND a determination as to which one is most appropriate comes after the evaluation is complete and only in conjunction with a team meeting.

 

UPDATE: I spoke with the school psychologist to get her opinion on whether I should have a diagnosis before starting this process. Instead of really answering that question, she started trying to convince me that we really didn't need to test if all we were after was accommodations....she said to just get a 504 (because with older kids, its really about accommodations at that point anyway.) She also said that IF I go through with the testing, and end up with an IEP, and I reject the IEP, I automatically reject the 504, as well. She said I have to accept or reject the entire IEP as a whole with any services they offer. This just sounds WRONG! I feel like its a way for the school to bully me into a 504. It seems important to me that a child with a known learning disability and a previous IEP should be retested! And an IEP could help my son "adjust" to a classroom. She just activated my stubborn side....now I am determined to get an IEP!! As for the diagnosis first....guess I'll get that as soon as I'm able, but other than that not worry about it.

 

 

Sorry if there are a lot of typos....I don't have my glasses on, and can't see what I'm typing.Please forgive my typos.

 

[Tokyomarie]

Instead of really answering that question, she started trying to convince me that we really didn't need to test if all we were after was accommodations....she said to just get a 504 (because with older kids, its really about accommodations at that point anyway.)

 

 

I just made a closer note of this sentence. Even if you hope to have a 504, your son cannot be determined to be eligible wiithout recent test data. As I mentioned in my previous post, at the K-12 level, the school district evaluation is the gateway to EITHER an IEP OR a 504. There is officially no discussion of which direction to go until an evaluation is complete and a determination of eligibility has been made. Any outside evaluation you may seek prior to going through the school district process will be considered by the school district team, but they also need to do their own evaluation.

 

We went through this process last year after we enrolled my son in school. Theoretically, once his eligibility was established, we could have pursued getting an IEP for teaching related to written expression goals. We chose not to go that direction, in part, because we already had private therapy services in place for written expression goals and, in part, because he was going to be taking his next writing class at the community college. We opted to have the team draft a 504 Plan to cover accommodations.

[bluedarling]

Thanks, Marie. That helps...you're right....I want the testing regardless. Thanks for helping me refocus. She said, though, that testing wasn't necessary if going the 504 route...a diagnosis was sufficient, and she isn't involved with 504s. She doesn't want to have to test if its not necessary. My oldest has a (very) old diagnosis (that I don't agree with) that she said was sufficient to get a 504 in place. Anyway, I want the testing. I feel its necessary. That means I know I am signing the paperwork on Wednesday for the testing. The other decision(s) I can make later...all that matters this week is that I want the testing! Child #1 needs updated testing, because even if I go elsewhere, its cheaper to have the school do it. Child #2 has never been tested, and has a suspected LD...he needs to be tested.

 

A 504 *might* be sufficient, but after talking to her, I am wondering if he shouldn't try a class or two at the high school next year...if he qualifies for an IEP, they could help him learn to self-advocate and acclimate to that environment with support (vs. going straight to the community college....I think that would be VERY overwhelming for him.) I'm wondering if high school wouldn't help provide a bridge to higher education. Right now it sounds like he really wants to go to college, but the only way he'll be able to manage that is if he goes slow and gets help...and he currently is incapable of self-advocating (not sure if its because of anxiety or pride...maybe both...he doesn't even ask for help at home). HS might force the independence he would need to manage CC. My primary goal is the paper trail for accommodations in college, but that isn't the only goal. Anything that could help bridge the gap between where he is at and being ready for college would be considered (written expression help, social skills help...including self-advocating, etc., ) I'm not ruling out anything, yet. (Now, I haven't ran any of this by my husband...the true homeschooling devotee in this house....not sure how he'd feel about sending him to school...even for part of the day....but I just think its the only way to force him to learn to ask for help/accommodations, learn to organize and meet deadlines, etc...skills he'll need if he's truly considering college.)

[momtotkbb]

It sounds a little like the school is trying to get out of testing by stating that a 504 plan can be put in place w/ the previous dx. Arguements have been made in the past that 504 only requires a record of a disability or even a belief of a disability to qualify. However, most public institutions will want a current (within 3 years) dx. Even if the school district is willing to provide you w/ a 504 plan without a current eval -- your problem will come when your ds wants accommodations on the ACT/SAT or in college. It is possible to homeschool without either a 504 or IEP in place and still be allowed accommodations on the ACT/SAT and in college. IT does require that you keep detailed notes for each year as to the accommodations that you provide to your ds in the homeschool environment and that you can provide documentation of his disability. I have two teens that have always been hsed - I have a file for each one w/ all psychoed testing that has been done over the years along with a typed notice stating each school year what intervention I've provided along w/ what accommodations I've provided - that has been sufficient to allow accommodations on the ACT/SAT. As a former 504/ADA univ administrator I also know the importance of my teens being able to explain their disability - how it impacts their learning - and what accommodations they will need. We've worked since they were young on the skill necessary for them to articulate how their LD's impact them. I also spend the middle school and high school years working with them on finding an organization system that works for them, giving them deadlines that they must meet, etc. Then the Jr/Sr year they can do duel enrollment at the local community college to allow them to try out their skills in a less threatening enviornment than a Univ campus. Our oldest attended ps but truthfully even w/ a 504 they did nothing to help him prepare or explain his disability -- all that came from home.

[8filltheheart]

. Right now it sounds like he really wants to go to college, but the only way he'll be able to manage that is if he goes slow and gets help...and he currently is incapable of self-advocating (not sure if its because of anxiety or pride...maybe both...he doesn't even ask for help at home). HS might force the independence he would need to manage CC. My primary goal is the paper trail for accommodations in college, but that isn't the only goal. Anything that could help bridge the gap between where he is at and being ready for college would be considered (written exp<b></b>ression help, social skills help...including self-advocating, etc., ) I'm not ruling out anything, yet. (Now, I haven't ran any of this by my husband...the true homeschooling devotee in this house....not sure how he'd feel about sending him to school...even for part of the day....but I just think its the only way to force him to learn to ask for help/accommodations, learn to organize and meet deadlines, etc...skills he'll need if he's truly considering college.)

 

 

My ds was able to qualify for accommodations at college, but he would never have qualified for an IEP b/c while he is most definitely disabled and unlikely ever to be completely independent, he is very intelligent and has no learning disabilities. His processing speeds are incredibly low (1st and 3rd percentile) and therefore he needs extra time for writing out his work and tests, but educationally the schools would not have been required to offer him anything additional educationally.

 

FWIW, there are universities w/programs in place to help disabled students graduate. WKU's Kelly Autism Program is one of the ones we liked the best out of all we investigated for our Aspie. We opted not to pursue a program like that b/c our ds's ability to deal w/stress, multiple step instructions, and independent work w/o constant affirmation is nil. Goodwill's working environment w/repetitive work and constant praise is more in line w/his ability to cope if not w/his level of academic intelligence.

[Tokyomarie]

However, most public institutions will want a current (within 3 years) dx. Even if the school district is willing to provide you w/ a 504 plan without a current eval -- your problem will come when your ds wants accommodations on the ACT/SAT or in college. It is possible to homeschool without either a 504 or IEP in place and still be allowed accommodations on the ACT/SAT and in college.

 

Yes. It has been stated on this board many times as well as other boards were I have been part of discussions about accommodations for college level. It is also clearly stated on the disability sections of most college websites that evaluations must be "current"- usually within 3 years, but I've even seen a college that requests testing within the last year.

 

If you hope to have your student take the SAT, be sure to read the details about eligibility for accommodations at the SSD portion of the Collegeboard website. It gives, in extreme detail, what kind of tests are necessary to include in an evaluation to demonstrate the need for accommodations on Collegeboard tests. ACT has its own requirements you'll need to be aware of if you plan to have your student take the ACT at some point.

 

My son was no longer homeschooling at the point his application to the Collegeboard was filed. He had been in school for a full school year but formal recognition at the school level had only been granted weeks before we filed with the Collegeboard. The test results of multiple evaluations combined with the documentation in one of the reports of our remediation and accommodation w/in the home setting prior to enrollment in school were both helpful.

 

As a former 504/ADA univ administrator I also know the importance of my teens being able to explain their disability - how it impacts their learning - and what accommodations they will need. We've worked since they were young on the skill necessary for them to articulate how their LD's impact them. I also spend the middle school and high school years working with them on finding an organization system that works for them, giving them deadlines that they must meet, etc. Then the Jr/Sr year they can do duel enrollment at the local community college to allow them to try out their skills in a less threatening enviornment than a Univ campus. Our oldest attended ps but truthfully even w/ a 504 they did nothing to help him prepare or explain his disability -- all that came from home.

 

 

This is one reason that I highly regret not pursuing formal neuropsych or psychoeducational evaluation during my son's elementary school years. I wanted desperately to have the evaluation done but for reasons I won't elaborate upon here I was not able to make it happen. It wasn't until he was in high school that we finally got the full evaluation. Unfortunately, we lost years of training in understanding his learning needs and learning to advocate for himself because without the formal evaluation doors to accommodation in the public sphere were closed.

 

I would also rethink the idea of having your son take a public high school course. Our experience last year of having to deal with getting a disability recognized at the K-12 level was similar to what I have heard over and over through the years: bright students fall through the cracks unless their parents study the law carefully and learn how to advocate according to the provisions of the law. I believe our son's own acceptance of the fact that he is dyslexic and dysgraphic, while still being quite intelligent, was set back tremendously by the response we received from his school. We've got things ironed out now, but whereas he was beginning to get accustomed to using various accommodations at home and in co-op, now he is choosing to reject them, in part, because the school spent so much time arguing against recognition of his disability.

 

Are there options for co-op or tutorial classes where you live? If you haven't participated in such classes, this could be a reasonable stepping stone into the classroom. Our experience, while not perfect due to the challenges associated with a class that only meets once a week, was that it did help ds to build classroom learning skills in a setting where there was reasonable flexibility with the academic requirements.

[Haiku]

IEPs and 504s do not carry over to college. 

 

This was not true for my dd, who is currently a sophomore in college. Her IEP did indeed carry over to college. In fact, her junior year, she had another round of testing done through the school specifically to update her IEP for college. My dd notified the Office of Disability Services at the university she is attending that she had an IEP, and the ODS gave her forms to fill out to have a copy of the IEP sent from her high school to the university. She has accommodations written into her IEP that are hers to avail herself of should she need them in college.

[8filltheheart]

This was not true for my dd, who is currently a sophomore in college. Her IEP did indeed carry over to college. In fact, her junior year, she had another round of testing done through the school specifically to update her IEP for college. My dd notified the Office of Disability Services at the university she is attending that she had an IEP, and the ODS gave her forms to fill out to have a copy of the IEP sent from her high school to the university. She has accommodations written into her IEP that are hers to avail herself of should she need them in college.

That is an unusual circumstance, b/c most universities/colleges function under the ADA for student accommodations. Here is a link that describes why IEPs are not used at the collegiate level and student responsibilities if they want to seek accommodations:

http://www.tcnj.edu/~technj/2004/transition.htm

 

This simple quote from this website also explains that IEPs do not carry beyond k12 ed:http://www.campusexplorer.com/college-advice-tips/6BBFCFE5/IEP-Students-and-College-Planning-Your-Transition/

[PeterPan]

It also means that he needs to make progress as dictated by his IEP rather than the usual state requirements (although last year he met both), which is a little bit of help (or at least reduces stress) for an area like writing where he is still not caught up to where his peers are. If he does well on the writing test at the end of the year, that will be excellent. If he does not, it is still all right though since he made progress as per the IEP. Well, I can still worry that he may never manage to write as I hope for him, but at least he does not fail homeschool requirements for our state.

 

Can you tell me more about this?  Our state requires either testing, a portfolio review, or mutually agreed on end of year method to determine that the student is performing "at his ability level."  What does the IEP contain that helps them with that?  I *think* I know what you're getting at, but can you explain it to me in newbie english?   :)

 

Sorry, I didn't realize this was an old thread!  Nevertheless, it's timely.  :)

[OneStepAtATime]

Actually, you are right OhE, even though this IS an old thread it really is still very interesting to read.  

[Tokyomarie]

 

That is an unusual circumstance, b/c most universities/colleges function under the ADA for student accommodations.   Here is a link that describes why IEPs are not used at the collegiate level and student responsibilities if they want to seek accommodations:

http://www.tcnj.edu/~technj/2004/transition.htm

 

This simple quote from this website also explains that IEPs do not carry beyond k12 ed:http://www.campusexplorer.com/college-advice-tips/6BBFCFE5/IEP-Students-and-College-Planning-Your-Transition/

•  

 

 

8FillTheHeart is correct on this, as her links demonstrate. Colleges will typically consider the IEP as one source of information when they draft their own list of accommodations for a student. However, from a legal perspective, college students are indeed covered under the ADA and Section 504, and not under IDEA 2004, which governs the IEP process. It is important to note that a college MAY choose to use the IEP as the only documentation for a disability. However, MOST colleges require students to submit a recent psychological evaluation report (typically 3yrs. or less) before they grant accommodations. 

[djmama]

Coming out of lurkdom- thanks for this thread- although it's old, it's invaluable info for those of us following behind! (11 y.o. ds with CI, processing issues, hypotonia, etc. but highly intelligent). Would be interested in how the original poster fared.