Diabetes reversal with HIGH Carb/LOW fat???

[Alenee]

I have an online friend who referred me to this book: http://www.amazon.com/Neal-Barnards-Program-Reversing-Diabetes/dp/1594868107

 

Apparently, this doctor has seen 40% of his patients reverse diabetes with a high carb/low fat diet. Has anyone read it? Were you convinced by his 'science'?

 

If you haven't read it, have you heard of controlling Type 2 diabetes this way?

 

My friend said, "Dr. Barnard makes a very persuasive argument that fats in the diet (from meat & dairy) make susceptible people's bodies unable to handle insulin correctly." As an aside, my friend is a vegan so I'm not sure how much weight to put behind this.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would be dead if I followed that.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yeah, either I'd literally whither or I'd die of boredom. Low carb ok. Both low carb and low fat? What's the point? It would be an insanely bland diet.

 

No, the diet recommends high carb. While it is true that I need my carbs to be more complex, I can't handle high carb.

[Alenee]

No, the diet recommends high carb. While it is true that I need my carbs to be more complex, I can't handle high carb.

 

Right.

 

I looked him up and he is a vegan. Most vegans I know are very hard-line about their beliefs in this area. I hesitate to give it more than a cursory glance if from the get-go I already know his personal philosophy is not to consume any animal products. Sounds to me like his science could be tainted.

 

ETA: NOTHING against vegans! But it's similar, imo, to the old arguments of how the Earth was formed...if you already believe one way, you're going to go out of your way to prove your philosophy.

[Parrothead]

Yes, it can be done. One can lose weight and reverse type 2 if one is vegan. It is fairly easy and isn't boring.

 

Dh dropped 20 pounds in 6 months on a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet. Once I stopped being sedentary I've started losing. Not nearly as much as dh since I spent the summer inside but it is coming off.

 

A couple of good resources are the documentary Forks Over Knives and the book Eat to Live.

[Parrothead]

Maybe it would work out if one consumes vegetables, soy and gluten. But add in stuff like grains, rice, beans, etc... That stuff is very high in carbs. And carbs are carbs. It's only a smidge better than sugar. But what would that look like? Cubes of tofu with some lettuce leaves? Barf.

Soy is a bean and gluten comes from wheat which is a grain.

[AK_Mom4]

I would be dead if I followed that.

 

Me too. Day One would have me in a coma, more than likely.

 

I could certainly manage my blood sugar levels being vegetarian or even vegan - that's no problem. But eating "high carb" is not the same thing.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yes, it can be done. One can lose weight and reverse type 2 if one is vegan. It is fairly easy and isn't boring.

 

Dh dropped 20 pounds in 6 months on a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet. Once I stopped being sedentary I've started losing. Not nearly as much as dh since I spent the summer inside but it is coming off.

 

A couple of good resources are the documentary Forks Over Knives and the book Eat to Live.

 

Eat to Live is not high carb. It allows carbs (which no one is saying that you shouldn't have at all). No one is saying that being vegan is a problem. What we are saying is that carbs are a problem if they go over a certain amount - esp. if they come with a higher glycemic index.

[Parrothead]

Where is it saying that this book recommends high carb? I'm not finding it at the link or the preview. It is recommending a vegan lifestyle which as others have pointed out is not necessarily high carb.

 

Jean, some people think that anything not distinctly low/no carb is automatically high carb.

[Rosy]

Green Smoothie Girl (google it) says that type 2 diabetes can be reversed with a sugar-free, meat-free, mostly raw, plant-based diet. I don't agree with her on everything, but I think the diet she recommends is optimal, and I don't doubt that one can avoid drugs by following it.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I believe Dr. Barnard recommends a high-fiber, vegan diet. I doubt he advocates eating loaves of white bread and crackers.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Where is it saying that this book recommends high carb? I'm not finding it at the link or the preview. It is recommending a vegan lifestyle which as others have pointed out is not necessarily high carb.

 

Jean, some people think that anything not distinctly low/no carb is automatically high carb.

 

My comments were only based on the OP saying that it was high carb. So - if it is truly high carb, that would kill me! But if this book is not high carb then my comments do not apply. I actually have this book somewhere. But when we compared this book to Dr. Bernstein's book and diet (high fat, low carb) we liked and did better with it. I didn't actually follow Dr. Barnard's diet though, and can't remember the details.

[Parrothead]

My comments were only based on the OP saying that it was high carb. So - if it is truly high carb, that would kill me! But if this book is not high carb then my comments do not apply. I actually have this book somewhere. But when we compared this book to Dr. Bernstein's book and diet (high fat, low carb) we liked and did better with it. I didn't actually follow Dr. Barnard's diet though, and can't remember the details.

Okay.

 

I do have to agree though. Anyone who truly eats high carb (which I think of as mostly carp processed unhealthy foods) isn't doing themselves a favor.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I've looked into these types of diets because my kidneys can't handle LCHF and I'm at risk for diabetes. Mostly the vegan anti-diabetes diets have some vegetable fats (a little oil, some nuts), one serving of beans, one serving of whole grain, and about a wheelbarrow full of vegetables and a bucket of fresh fruit per day.

 

It's a lot of chewing. You slim down in a hurry, and blood sugar quickly regulates, in my experience. But it's expensive, it's high maintenance (constantly shopping for fresh veg, washing veg, chopping veg), and it's a lot of chewing.

[AK_Mom4]

I probably should have mentioned ... I have read this book. It's all about vegan, low-fat, low glycemic index foods. And his argument for the vegan (no animal product) piece read like a PETA commercial.

 

His study did get good results. I don't think anyone is going to convince me that you can "reverse" type 2 diabetes - ie, fix it and go back to your old unhealthy eating habits. But it's not surprising to me that his vegan, low-fat diet got better results than the old American Diabetes one.

 

Personally, I found that eating his way was a problem. Some of the low glycemic foods he encourages still jack up my blood sugar level too high. Plus, I missed meat. For me, a nice low-carb healthy diet is the way to go for diabetes control.

 

But eating High-Carb to control diabetes? No Way.

 

Personally, I like Dr. Bernstein's book "Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution"

[Jean in Newcastle]

e.

 

Personally, I found that eating his way was a problem. Some of the low glycemic foods he encourages still jack up my blood sugar level too high. Plus, I missed meat. For me, a nice low-carb healthy diet is the way to go for diabetes control.

 

But eating High-Carb to control diabetes? No Way.

 

Personally, I like Dr. Bernstein's book "Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution"

 

OK - this was why we rejected the Barnard book for the Bernstein one. (I realize when I reread my former post that it wasn't clear that it was the Bernstein one that I like and follow, not the Barnard one. I got confused with my pronouns.)

[justLisa]

I've looked into these types of diets because my kidneys can't handle LCHF and I'm at risk for diabetes. Mostly the vegan anti-diabetes diets have some vegetable fats (a little oil, some nuts), one serving of beans, one serving of whole grain, and about a wheelbarrow full of vegetables and a bucket of fresh fruit per day.

 

It's a lot of chewing. You slim down in a hurry, and blood sugar quickly regulates, in my experience. But it's expensive, it's high maintenance (constantly shopping for fresh veg, washing veg, chopping veg), and it's a lot of chewing.

 

:lol:This is so true

 

I have a unique sort of diet for myself. This won't sound right, but I eat mostly veg plus a bit of meat and eggs I do very little dairy if any. A bit of yogurt or parm grated on something. I eat legumes but mostly lentils. I never eat tofu. Ick. I feel best when most of my food comes from plants. I could eat meat once a week and be fine, but I don't really feel best. I eat a small bit with lunch or dinner most days.

[Alenee]

Where is it saying that this book recommends high carb? I'm not finding it at the link or the preview. It is recommending a vegan lifestyle which as others have pointed out is not necessarily high carb.

 

Jean, some people think that anything not distinctly low/no carb is automatically high carb.

 

I don't know that the book actually says "high carb". I was quoting my friend in her overview of Dr. Barnard's eating plan.

 

Based on the thoughts from those who have used his plan and/or read his book, I'm certain I could not do it. I can get close, but my body gets very lethargic w/o meat. I went 10 days w/o meat last November, yet still eating good proteins. Dh made me stop because I couldn't think straight, was disoriented, and extremely exhausted.

[umsami]

John McDougall has been touting the same thing since the late 80s/early 90s. Basically, it's a low-fat, whole-grains vegan diet...and yes, diabetes can be reversed on the plan. Part of the reason is that people tend to lose weight...but I think another part is getting out a lot of the refined foods.

[PiCO]

My friend said, "Dr. Barnard makes a very persuasive argument that fats in the diet (from meat & dairy) make susceptible people's bodies unable to handle insulin correctly." As an aside, my friend is a vegan so I'm not sure how much weight to put behind this.

 

That's not how my body works. I reversed my diabetes with a high fat/low carb diet. My blood sugar shoots up with whole grain anything, but animal fats are completely fine for me.

 

I really think people should go by the numbers- get a blood sugar monitor and see how different foods affect your blood sugar. Eat that way for a while and get your HBA1-c done, and a lipid panel. Eat the way that makes your body healthier.

[Jean in Newcastle]

That's not how my body works. I reversed my diabetes with a high fat/low carb diet. My blood sugar shoots up with whole grain anything, but animal fats are completely fine for me.

 

I really think people should go by the numbers- get a blood sugar monitor and see how different foods affect your blood sugar. Eat that way for a while and get your HBA1-c done, and a lipid panel. Eat the way that makes your body healthier.

 

Precisely. I had a nutritionist argue with me that I "should" be ok with more carbs. They shut up when I showed them my monitor. I mean, really, it isn't like I wouldn't like to eat some more whole grains. I can't.

[Joanne]

I think people's healthy level of complex carbs can vary.

 

I don't believe in low fat, period.

[Alenee]

I think people's healthy level of complex carbs can vary.

 

I don't believe in low fat, period.

 

Completely agree with this.

[Once]

John McDougall has been touting the same thing since the late 80s/early 90s. Basically, it's a low-fat, whole-grains vegan diet...and yes, diabetes can be reversed on the plan. Part of the reason is that people tend to lose weight...but I think another part is getting out a lot of the refined foods.

 

:iagree:

He has a new book out called the Starch Solution.....there is an hour long video on his site that explains a bit....mostly history and thoughts behind the diet. I have been loosely following a vegan diet for about 8 months now and have never felt better (and lost 20lbs without too much work). I use to do the Nurshing Traditions diet.....high in whole fat dairy and organic meats. I was sick as a dog.

 

Low fat vegan isn't too boring. We have a Korean man living here while doing school and he tells me all the time that they eat similarily there.....less meat and no dairy. Korean food is yummy!!!

 

A few books to start.....Eating Vegan on $4 a Day, Happy Herbivore books, McDougall and Vegan Express.

[Pawz4me]

I'm a low fat/high carb eater and have been for decades. Despite a family history of diabetes (my father and aunt), my fasting blood sugar level is always great -- right around 80 to 84.

[kroe1]

It's not so much what one eats, but dropping the pounds that matters in my opinion. I've seen quite a few people get better control of their diabetes by dropping about 10% of their body weight. Many no longer needed medicine. The way to the weight loss didn't seem to matter. The same effect happens for many of those with high blood pressure.

 

:)

[kiana]

Frankly I think any reasonable diet that reduces processed foods is going to be healthier than the standard American diet.

[wapiti]

It's not so much what one eats, but dropping the pounds that matters in my opinion. I've seen quite a few people get better control of their diabetes by dropping about 10% of their body weight. Many no longer needed medicine. The way to the weight loss didn't seem to matter. The same effect happens for many of those with high blood pressure.

 

:)

 

As a PSA, about 20% of type 2 diabetics are normal weight. For them, excess fat is not causing the problem and weight loss is not recommended.

 

IME, what one eats makes a tremendous difference.

[kroe1]

As a PSA, about 20% of type 2 diabetics are normal weight. For them, excess fat is not causing the problem and weight loss is not recommended.

 

IME, what one eats makes a tremendous difference.

 

This is not totally true. Even a "normal" weight type 2 diabetic with a BMI in the 20 to 25 range may benefit from some weight reduction. But for these people, the type of weight reduction does matter. It usually must include a sharp increase in the amount of exercise they obtain. This group of people usually have a genetic risk factor, gestational diabetes, and/or a sedentary lifestyle. You are right, however, that a particular diet may be more beneficial in this group than others in the overweight and obese categories. And the number of "normal" weight Type 2 diabetics differs based on one's definition of normal weight. Most physicians say it's about 10% or less of the total.

 

But never forget, common things are common. The exceptions are exceptions.

 

:)

Edited November 13, 2012 by Minniewannabe

[Denisemomof4]

High carb for a diabetic is bad science and an awful recommendation.

[Denisemomof4]

Yes, it can be done. One can lose weight and reverse type 2 if one is vegan. It is fairly easy and isn't boring.

 

Dh dropped 20 pounds in 6 months on a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet. Once I stopped being sedentary I've started losing. Not nearly as much as dh since I spent the summer inside but it is coming off.

 

A couple of good resources are the documentary Forks Over Knives and the book Eat to Live.

 

If she wants to reverse diabetes, Eat to Live is an excellent choice. Can't get any healthier a diet plan than that! There is MAXIMUM of one cup carbs on this diet, whether starchy veg or whole grain, and a MINIMUM one cup legumes.