Advice on classical conversations long-term...?

[pehp]

My ds is kindy/Year 0 right now. It's going great. I'm basically a CM homeschooler at this point--probably transitioning more into blending that with TWTM in a few years. We are having a fantastic year and I love homeschooling.

 

We attend a classical conversations group one morning a week. It is excellent. My son's tutor is wonderful. Our director is fabulous. The other mothers and children are great. The community is close-knit and supportive. I really, really like everyone. I joined this year b/c I wanted to start getting a 'community' of homeschoolers (I don't have any friends locally who homeschool otherwise) and to give my son some time with age-mates. It's great for us from the social aspect of things.

 

But I'm struggling with the academic aspect of CC. At this point it is not a big deal--the 4/5 year olds aren't really memorization-machines and they just have fun, get the supplemental info, etc.

 

But I'm looking forward and think it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to continue with CC without using it as a vital part of our schooling. For now, if my son doesn't do the memory work, it doesn't matter. But I know that in a year or two, it WILL matter, b/c the other children will be taking it more seriously and it will be expected. He rather enjoys the CDs and the parroting (I do not practice it with him at all, but I do let him listen to the CDs at his leisure), but we don't 'work' on them. He's a bit of a perfectionist and has already expressed a little dismay that he doesn't parrot everything perfectly, but I am unwilling to invest a lot of time into getting him to memorize things without context...

 

...which brings me to my primary issue w/ CC, which is the memory work without context. I don't care if my son can skip count the 8s; I want him to understand the concept. I realize there are different schools of thought on this, but that's our perspective. Similarly with history, etc.--I just don't care for memory work for its own sake, and of course this is a key aspect of CC.

 

So I feel somewhat torn. Is there any way to reconcile a very Charlotte Mason approach in the early years with a program like CC? The community is excellent; I just can't decide if we should commit to it next year. I almost feel like I will need to build my curriculum around it so that my son isn't just memorizing random facts/figures/etc, but that goes against the grain of what I envision for our homeschool.

 

I haven't done much looking around at co-ops in our community, so there are other options, but I do really like *this* group of parents and children. I may need to poke around a bit more. I do feel the need to have SOMETHING community-wise--both for my children and for me!

[BlessedMomto3]

:bigear: I've been wondering this as well!

[staceyobu]

I could have written your post last year. We did two years of CC, and I had a lot of the same issues. I like the curriculum that we use at home and wasn't willing to work everything around CC. I didn't like the idea of trying to squeeze history down to 12 week semesters... I didn't like the 3 year cycles... I didn't like the focus on memory work without context. I also didn't like that some of the "fun" CC stuff (like tin whistle, orchestra, and some of the art) was the same every year. It seemed a weird combination of overwhelming memory work and repetitive add ons.

 

Loved the community aspect... but in the end, it just didn't seem worth it when community is available at other coops. I really, really wish they would do a modified program for the little ones. I would love it if they could do 1/2 the memory work of the older kids.

 

Good luck in your journey.

[aaplank]

I think CC is really a long term program. The Challenge Program (middle-high school) started first, then Essentials, and lastly Foundations. However, most people start with Foundations and then move up through the program. Foundations and Essentials were added to prepare you and give you the "Foundation" you needed to do well in Challenge. It's really not memory work out of context, but the context just doesn't come until much later in the program.

 

I agree with you that going this CC route involves revolving your whole home school around this approach. As your son gets older it will be much more difficult for him to only go to CC for the social aspect, as there is mild to moderate competition to keep up with all the work.

 

I would focus on looking at the Challenge program carefully and see whether that is something you want to work toward, if not, then maybe dropping out of CC sooner than later would be a good idea. Maybe you could try to find a way to keep the social connections you have with the people in your CC community and do your own thing at home.

[Another Lynn]

We participated in CC for three years, left it for two years and now we are back in it again. I felt much the way you do about CM and about out of context memory work when we were in CC the first time. In addition to spending a fair amount of money on something that didn't match my CM approach, I felt like I was also teaching my children to be underachievers because we weren't emphasizing the memory work at home. So, we tried a "traditional" local co-op instead for two years. While it no longer put demands on the rest of our academic week, it was disappointing for a whole list of reasons. I am thrilled to have us back at CC. I'm appreciating how well run it is, how supportive, how clear the expectations are, and that my children have a peer group that encourages a desire for excellence. (These are just a few of the things that were lacking in the more traditional co-op we tried.)

 

As far as blending CM and CC.... Well, first, I'll confess that the further I go, the further I drift from CM. So, I've compromised a bit. I admit that I will not provide context for every fact they encounter in CC and I accept that. I actually don't mind that math facts are out of context because I think sometimes conceptual understanding can make more sense after something has become automatic. But, I also realize that I can provide context for some. The Science Acts and Facts cards are a great way to provide a little bit of context for the science memory. I'm trying to add in some living science books in the same field and let the connections happen where they may. For history, especially Cycle 1, I'm just covering ancients at home. I'm not providing context for every history sentence. But I am reading the back of the timeline cards to them, and I'm using the Bible, Hillyer's Child's History of the World, and Diana Waring CDs to provide context for the ancient portion of the timeline. Their literature assignments relate to ancients as well. (I feel like the new timeline really compensates for anything I don't love about the history sentences.)

 

Some people use SOTW to provide context, but just go through the 4 volumes more quickly to cover them in the 3 year cycle instead of 4 years.

 

Another possibility as a CM-er is to consider having two history threads at home - a slow one and a fast one. Let CC's 3-year cycle be your faster thread. Let AO or SCM (or whatever) be your slower thread. (I personally feel like we only have time for one history focus, but I thought I'd mention the possibility.)

 

We do "drill" the memory work at home. We spend about 20 minutes/ day. The first day of our week at home I review every subject for the current week that they learned the day before. The other days we review by subject area, covering several subjects each day. We also listen to songs in the car.

 

The other thing I discovered as my oldest got older is that even though we did rich, CM-style learning when he was young, he didn't remember near as much as I thought he would later. I don't regret what we did, but as far as what he remembers, the contextual learning didn't make near the impact I thought it would. So, my hopes are that connecting the timeline to our history progression at home will allow the context to reinforce the drill and the drill to reinforce the context. (My original plan was to notebook the timeline cards... I confess that is one thing we dropped when our week got too full....)

 

The other thing I'm really appreciating is Essentials. We never tried it the first time around. As a CM-er, IEW didn't appeal to me at all. But, as I struggled with my oldest to move from CM narrations to other types of writing, I began to look for a different way to approach writing with my younger children. I am loving how IEW and Essentials is gradually leading them into more challenging writing assignments. I love that they want to do a good job on their assignments because they are turning them in, and possibly reading them in class, etc.

 

So, inspite of all my rambling, the short answer is I think you can have both, but you will probably have to make some compromises. Only you will know if you can do that, still accomplish your goals, and if the value of CC is worth making those compromises. I didn't discover that it was (worth it for us) until I left it and came back.

[...................]

I have considered and considered CC every year.

 

Basically, I didn't join Foundations because I don't see the point in taking an entire day out of our school day for memory work and art, and you either have to pay very hefty fees or become a tutor.

 

Also, if you have no interest in continuing with Essentials or CHallenge, or doing a very similar homeschool approach for middle and high school, there's not much point in doing Foundations, unless you are really having a good time. Honestly the whole point of Foundations is to prepare for Essentials and Challenge.

 

Personally, I'd rather continue to take field trips and park days every Friday, cover academics myself, and then later when and if we need, to utilize the paid local classes which cost less than CC and do not require me to spend the whole day or even half a day there. We have two such paid class options in my area.

[Jim]

We've been involved in CC for 3 years, 2 with our younger ds and 3 with the older. We do not build our work at home around it but treat it as its own subject. They have enjoyed listening to the cds and memorizing. The older earned their Memory Master title last year by memorizing every single fact through the year. It's amazing to witness what is possible. The younger knows many of the facts.

 

At this ppoint the facts act as pegs. Context will be added as the cycle repeatrs, much like in the classical model. You could easily read stories that go with each history fact to add some context. Same with many of the other areas. Last year science concentrated on the human body and they made a full-sized drawing of their body and placed each organ group as it was introduced.

 

While we like the program, I have concerns regarding how it will fit in as they move up or even if it will. And, as Calming Teas suggested, if we don't continue I'd rather have that day back. But they are advancing and picking up skills I sure wish I had.

 

We're investigating the Challenge program. If we decide to go that way I'll likely start to bend what we do at home toward that path since its requirements will fill our days.

 

Although we've gone different routes, Calming Teas thoughts are on target. YOu have to see if you can fit CC into your home program to some degree. If not, then you will always wonder if you'd be better off having that day at home.

 

 

Jim

[...................]

Excellent post Jim. You make sense to me.

 

Congrats on the memory work.

[craftyerin]

I debated the same last year, and chose not to join. Almost all of the homeschoolers I know here are in CC, and I really feel like we're going to continue to struggle to find community without joining CC, but i just don't like their approach. Sigh. I'm thinking about it again for next year, even though I'm 99% sure it wouldn't be a good fit academically for us.

[...................]

CC is getting huge where I live. Thankfully there are still hundreds of homeschoolers that don't do CC.

 

Have you considered a regular support group instead of a co-op? Ours is very strong and has lots of field trips and activities to choose from.

[KeriJ]

We participated in CC for three years, left it for two years and now we are back in it again. I felt much the way you do about CM and about out of context memory work when we were in CC the first time. In addition to spending a fair amount of money on something that didn't match my CM approach, I felt like I was also teaching my children to be underachievers because we weren't emphasizing the memory work at home. So, we tried a "traditional" local co-op instead for two years. While it no longer put demands on the rest of our academic week, it was disappointing for a whole list of reasons. I am thrilled to have us back at CC. I'm appreciating how well run it is, how supportive, how clear the expectations are, and that my children have a peer group that encourages a desire for excellence. (These are just a few of the things that were lacking in the more traditional co-op we tried.)

 

As far as blending CM and CC.... Well, first, I'll confess that the further I go, the further I drift from CM. So, I've compromised a bit. I admit that I will not provide context for every fact they encounter in CC and I accept that. I actually don't mind that math facts are out of context because I think sometimes conceptual understanding can make more sense after something has become automatic. But, I also realize that I can provide context for some. The Science Acts and Facts cards are a great way to provide a little bit of context for the science memory. I'm trying to add in some living science books in the same field and let the connections happen where they may. For history, especially Cycle 1, I'm just covering ancients at home. I'm not providing context for every history sentence. But I am reading the back of the timeline cards to them, and I'm using the Bible, Hillyer's Child's History of the World, and Diana Waring CDs to provide context for the ancient portion of the timeline. Their literature assignments relate to ancients as well. (I feel like the new timeline really compensates for anything I don't love about the history sentences.)

 

Some people use SOTW to provide context, but just go through the 4 volumes more quickly to cover them in the 3 year cycle instead of 4 years.

 

Another possibility as a CM-er is to consider having two history threads at home - a slow one and a fast one. Let CC's 3-year cycle be your faster thread. Let AO or SCM (or whatever) be your slower thread. (I personally feel like we only have time for one history focus, but I thought I'd mention the possibility.)

 

We do "drill" the memory work at home. We spend about 20 minutes/ day. The first day of our week at home I review every subject for the current week that they learned the day before. The other days we review by subject area, covering several subjects each day. We also listen to songs in the car.

 

The other thing I discovered as my oldest got older is that even though we did rich, CM-style learning when he was young, he didn't remember near as much as I thought he would later. I don't regret what we did, but as far as what he remembers, the contextual learning didn't make near the impact I thought it would. So, my hopes are that connecting the timeline to our history progression at home will allow the context to reinforce the drill and the drill to reinforce the context. (My original plan was to notebook the timeline cards... I confess that is one thing we dropped when our week got too full....)

 

The other thing I'm really appreciating is Essentials. We never tried it the first time around. As a CM-er, IEW didn't appeal to me at all. But, as I struggled with my oldest to move from CM narrations to other types of writing, I began to look for a different way to approach writing with my younger children. I am loving how IEW and Essentials is gradually leading them into more challenging writing assignments. I love that they want to do a good job on their assignments because they are turning them in, and possibly reading them in class, etc.

 

So, inspite of all my rambling, the short answer is I think you can have both, but you will probably have to make some compromises. Only you will know if you can do that, still accomplish your goals, and if the value of CC is worth making those compromises. I didn't discover that it was (worth it for us) until I left it and came back.

 

This is exactly how I came to terms with it as well! You expressed perfectly all the thoughts I processed through this semester. I couldn't have said it better! :001_smile:

[KeriJ]

To add a little more of our experience: my girls have really enjoyed the cd and listen to it on their own. I decided that the memory I really care about is the timeline, some of the science, the skip counting and the grammar. So those are the areas we really focus on, I leave the rest up to them. They've really enjoyed learning and singing the songs.

 

One area that has been a blessing to us is the presentation time. My 7 year old went from crying her way through her first one to speaking clearly and really enjoying herself last week. It has been amazing to see her gain confidence and really blossom.

 

What CC has done for me is to free me up to really focus on skills during the school year and having CC be the gravy. We are reading through Hillyer for history context, but I plan to devote our summer to in depth history and science.

 

The few concerns I had about context have been overshadowed by the benefits.

[Lale]

I am new to this forum, and also started CC this year, so you can take my comments with a grain of salt! :001_smile:

 

We kinda stumbled into CC this year, and I am so glad that we did. We don't structure any of our curriculum around the memory work in CC. If we happen to hit one of the history sentences or a fact from the timeline in our history studies (we use SOTW), or talking about prepositions when doing grammar, then the kids are able to make an instant connection to what we are learning, and the get excited and feel more confident in their studies. For my ds8, it has been AMAZING the number of connections he has made with the timeline and some of the history sentences, in his independent reading and in our study of history, and even in watching TV. And not just history, but really in all of the memory work areas. For my dd6, I really think it has helped her to feel more successful in her schooling. The friendly competition in class has encouraged to come out of her shell and show what she knows. It has also made history her favorite subject. And honestly, they just love the group and they really love doing the memory work. It is really fun to them, and for me, that is when the light came on: they are really thriving on memorization and learning facts!

 

We also use CC as our primary geography curriculum right now. I have found that they are getting half of the job done in just memorizing the vocabulary, and then they can really focus on finding the places on the map. Don't know if that makes sense, but I am simply amazed at what they can find on the map (we work on it a few times a week).

 

And I agree with the above poster about the presentations. My kids went from absolutely terrified to get up in front of others, to kind of maybe actually enjoying it just a little. :001_smile:

 

So, right now it is really working for us. I do plan on at this point in time, continuing through Foundations. I know that it isn't for everyone. For this point in time in our homeschooling journey, it is just right for us.

[Hedgehogs4]

We did CC for three years, and for various reasons opted not to continue. We worked hard to give the memory work context, at least in History and sometimes in Science.

 

Even so, the grammar and math memory work ARE PAYING OFF, even now. My ds 11 said that the best thing he learned in CC was the skip counting, and is really glad that he did it. They still sing the history songs all the time, and we make reference to the grammar memory work often. You don't have to decide now, but after a few years it will be clear to you what direction you need to go, as you learn what kind of learner you child is and what kind of teacher you are. It may be that it is just the "thing" for you. You have to believe in the system--which to a large extent I do--but it's not the only system, or even necessarily the best system. It may be, but it's not for everyone. I explain in detail our reasons for leaving in my blog, which is linked in my signature if you're interested, but please don't take this as discouraging you from continuing if it's going well.

 

For us, it was the intensity of it all--I just didn't have it in me to keep the pace, and my son is very auditory and requires a lot of time in discussion with us to satisfy his curiosity. He processes everything externally, so it was EXHAUSTING to keep up with it all. We didn't have the time to "land on" stuff as we wanted to and soak it up. We were just kind of getting the hang of the middle ages and the history songs had jumped ahead to the discovery of the new world and what-not. It was just too fast.

[Another Lynn]

This is exactly how I came to terms with it as well! You expressed perfectly all the thoughts I processed through this semester. I couldn't have said it better! :001_smile:

 

Thanks! Glad to know I'm not alone! :001_smile:

 

I would just add that even though Foundation and Essentials were added after Challenge in order to prepare students for Challenge, I don't think they have to lead to Challenge. I think we're building skills we'll need no matter what we do for Logic Stage and High School..... whether we utilize the Challenge programs or do something else.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Another Lynn
typo

[daysaregifts]

Have you thought of starting a CM co-op? There are some out there.

[pehp]

Have you thought of starting a CM co-op? There are some out there.

 

I haven't!! But it sounds tempting. We're so early in our journey that I'm totally not ready to organize anything myself other than dinner and school and keeping the house clean. ha!!

 

I would enjoy hearing about how one of these works, though.

[pehp]

I don't know how to multi-quote or else I'd do that. I really REALLY appreciate all of these replies and thoughts. They are giving me so much to 'chew on' over the next few months.

 

One thing I love about CC is the presentation time. My son has very mild autism (to the point where people don't realize he has it) and is socially anxious. The presentations are great because he is learning, in a safe and comfortable environment, to 'branch out' and speak in front of an audience. So much easier, I think, to get comfortable with this if you learn slowly and surely at a young age. I really really like this!

 

I also like the structure and organization of the program, in terms of clear expectations (from parents and children); I tend to prefer things than run like a well-oiled machine and our CC group absolutely does.

 

Another Lynn, your post is a wealth of information and very thought-provoking for me!!! Thank you so much.....it really helps.

 

....and I'd write more but I am hearing that the baby is awake. So it's time for me to go to bed. More pondering tomorrow night. Thanks so much to everyone who has provided some insight on this!

[Angie in VA]

My dc are 17 and 13 now. When they were younger we used CC's Foundations materials at home w/ success. Many of my friends are in CC, and most of them are tutors or directors, but we always had chaos in our lives (selling a house, building a house, etc.), so I couldn't commit time or $ to being in the community. And, as I tease my CC friends, I don't work and play well w/ others, lol.

 

We have also attended several practica held by CC. In fact, it's why speech & debate have such a big part in our lives right now. Dd attended the debate camp at a CC practicum while ds was at speech camp a few years ago, and they both got the bug. We drive a good distance for them to be in a great S&D club. Last year, dd swept all the league's tournaments w/ her biographical informative speech and qualified and competed in a national tournament. (Where she placed very low. It was good for her to be a small fish in a big pond!)

 

So, I owe a lot to CC, esp. for never having been a member of the community. So, you can have your cake and eat it too, and go at whatever pace you like!

[KeriJ]

I am new to this forum, and also started CC this year, so you can take my comments with a grain of salt! :001_smile:

 

We kinda stumbled into CC this year, and I am so glad that we did. We don't structure any of our curriculum around the memory work in CC. If we happen to hit one of the history sentences or a fact from the timeline in our history studies (we use SOTW), or talking about prepositions when doing grammar, then the kids are able to make an instant connection to what we are learning, and the get excited and feel more confident in their studies. For my ds8, it has been AMAZING the number of connections he has made with the timeline and some of the history sentences, in his independent reading and in our study of history, and even in watching TV. And not just history, but really in all of the memory work areas. For my dd6, I really think it has helped her to feel more successful in her schooling. The friendly competition in class has encouraged to come out of her shell and show what she knows. It has also made history her favorite subject. And honestly, they just love the group and they really love doing the memory work. It is really fun to them, and for me, that is when the light came on: they are really thriving on memorization and learning facts!

 

We also use CC as our primary geography curriculum right now. I have found that they are getting half of the job done in just memorizing the vocabulary, and then they can really focus on finding the places on the map. Don't know if that makes sense, but I am simply amazed at what they can find on the map (we work on it a few times a week).

 

And I agree with the above poster about the presentations. My kids went from absolutely terrified to get up in front of others, to kind of maybe actually enjoying it just a little. :001_smile:

 

So, right now it is really working for us. I do plan on at this point in time, continuing through Foundations. I know that it isn't for everyone. For this point in time in our homeschooling journey, it is just right for us.

 

 

Yes! I forgot about geography! That has been a big plus too!

[stm4him]

This is our second full year of CC and my oldest is 10. When we first joined CC she was 5 and although we had fun I quit halfway through the year because I didn't see the point. She couldn't understand what she was learning and she is my kiddo that has a hard time memorizing. My second child, who was 3 at the time, was picking up a lot, but he wasn't even school age yet.

 

I told myself I could do it better at home and I was exhausted with too much on my plate in general and so we left to do our own thing at home. I was using a very intense history curriculum and adding CC in just didn't make as much sense as I thought it would. But as time went on I realized that the truth was we weren't doing the memory work at home and my kids weren't retaining long term much of all that wonderful history curriculum I had been using. They were getting a feel for history but they really couldn't talk about it in detail. The longer we spent on history (especially hands-on type stuff) the less we actually got to the 3 R's and I felt more and more guilty as we fell further an further behind. I also would do major overhauls to get rid of our curriculum to try to find what "worked", which also cost us time and money.

 

Once I finally settled on classical education (after trying many methods) I realized that there was no way I could teach multiple levels of Shirley grammar and I didn't like that it didn't include diagramming. I realized that CC's Essentials program was the most efficient way to get a thorough grounding in grammar to make them completely ready for studying other languages in the other grades and it was the most practical in that all my kids in grades 4-6 (which will be two much of the time) will be doing the same things. And that once a week they would have 2 hours of instruction with me at their side and my little ones in the nursery. They would also have the motivation of turning in their papers to their tutor and reading their papers to their peers and I would have the accountability that went along with that. That just made sense. So we signed up for Foundations (didn't think my daughter was quite ready for Essentials at that time but wanted to prepare her well) and we have not looked back.

 

I also did not think I wanted to do the Challenge program but the more I look into it the more I like it. There are some things I will still want to add, but for the money my kids will get some solid help and direction in Math, Science, and Latin (among other things) and those are subjects I don't think I want to tackle on my own with them in those grades. I couldn't afford to pay for online classes for all my kids in those subjects either so I think it is worth the money. I have heard many times that when they get to Challenge the things they learned in Foundations and Essentials are so helpful and the ones who have it are really prepared to tackle the subjects and assignments they are given. I would assume that that would be the case no matter what they did from 7th grade on with Foundations and Essentials under their belt.

 

The thing I missed the first time around was that big picture. I like that they started with Challenge and as they encountered holes in the kids' knowledge that hindered higher level studies they filled them with memory work to avoid that for younger students by teaching it to them early. I am amazed every week by the connections my kids make in the world and in the Word because of what they've learned in CC. I know my 5 year old (who is in his second year at CC) will know so much more at 10 than my oldest does because of CC. The interest the memory work sparks is wonderful. At first it seems disjointed, but as you go along you begin to see so many connections if you are just using the information they give in their highlights and on the backs of their cards.

 

I watch the moms in my 4 and 5 year old's class and the ones that are new are obviously enjoying the community but I can tell they don't really get it yet. But the ones that have older ones are really understanding what we are doing with these little ones and why it is worth it, and they wish they had started sooner with their older ones.

 

What I didn't realize in the beginning of homeschooling was how important retention was to learning and how to achieve it. You can't build on what you don't keep in your brain. The 3 year cycle may seem a bit odd to people but the more times you run through it the more you will truly learn it. That is why they do so much repetition. But they do pick up more each time as their ability to understand grows and the easier the memorization is the second time around the more brain space they have for soaking up more of the context. Its just not easy to see at first.

 

Here is one example. My third son, age 5, and I were looking at a map in an illustrated Children's Bible. He was able to tell me where the fertile crescent was, Assyria, Babylon, the Hebrew Empire, etc. without me prompting him and suddenly he was making connections about the Bible stories he knew and where things happened. He was trying to figure out which temple was destroyed from our timeline song and which one was rebuilt, etc. My oldest spent a lot of time doing Bible activities with me, but I never made her memorize the maps. So even though the names were familiar to her she couldn't see them in her mind when I read to her and she couldn't make connections to other cultures or things going on in history at that time (even though we were using a curriculum that was designed to do that). So I see doors of understanding opening up in my younger ones that were never there for my older ones when they are little no matter how I tried with other methods and I am ecstatic to see how they will know the history and geography of the world (among other things) so much better than I ever did (and probably ever will).

 

I have not even mentioned here the benefits of the Latin (which I use daily when I help my 10 year old with her Latin) or Math (which has allowed my kids to memorize and start to understand their multiplication tables much before it was even introduced in their curriculum). I have also not mentioned the English grammar (which I also use when teaching IEW and LOE) and the Science Acts and Facts cards, which have continued to allow them to make connections to history and know vocabulary they wouldn't otherwise know.

 

Finally, what CC has done for us is to allow us to focus on the skill subjects that are so important for learning, and to make the most of our time in the content areas without needing to do exhausting planning or gathering of materials or specific books. It regularly spurs rich discussions as we make all these connections between subjects and it has sparked a fire in their interest in the world and an awe of its Creator. It has given us a vision and a passion for learning. That is priceless. I urge you to stick it out a little longer and work at learning the memory work a little harder and talk with moms who have been in it for 2 or more years and see what they say. Many of them do the bare minimum at first but as time goes on they understand the methodology more and more and begin to make it the heart of their curriculum and LOVE it.....and the benefits their kids are getting from it. Otherwise you may be like myself and some of the others on this board who had to leave it to realize what it was worth.....

[pehp]

We participated in CC for three years, left it for two years and now we are back in it again. I felt much the way you do about CM and about out of context memory work when we were in CC the first time. In addition to spending a fair amount of money on something that didn't match my CM approach, I felt like I was also teaching my children to be underachievers because we weren't emphasizing the memory work at home. So, we tried a "traditional" local co-op instead for two years. While it no longer put demands on the rest of our academic week, it was disappointing for a whole list of reasons. I am thrilled to have us back at CC. I'm appreciating how well run it is, how supportive, how clear the expectations are, and that my children have a peer group that encourages a desire for excellence. (These are just a few of the things that were lacking in the more traditional co-op we tried.)

 

As far as blending CM and CC.... Well, first, I'll confess that the further I go, the further I drift from CM. So, I've compromised a bit. I admit that I will not provide context for every fact they encounter in CC and I accept that. I actually don't mind that math facts are out of context because I think sometimes conceptual understanding can make more sense after something has become automatic. But, I also realize that I can provide context for some. The Science Acts and Facts cards are a great way to provide a little bit of context for the science memory. I'm trying to add in some living science books in the same field and let the connections happen where they may. For history, especially Cycle 1, I'm just covering ancients at home. I'm not providing context for every history sentence. But I am reading the back of the timeline cards to them, and I'm using the Bible, Hillyer's Child's History of the World, and Diana Waring CDs to provide context for the ancient portion of the timeline. Their literature assignments relate to ancients as well. (I feel like the new timeline really compensates for anything I don't love about the history sentences.)

 

Some people use SOTW to provide context, but just go through the 4 volumes more quickly to cover them in the 3 year cycle instead of 4 years.

 

Another possibility as a CM-er is to consider having two history threads at home - a slow one and a fast one. Let CC's 3-year cycle be your faster thread. Let AO or SCM (or whatever) be your slower thread. (I personally feel like we only have time for one history focus, but I thought I'd mention the possibility.)

 

We do "drill" the memory work at home. We spend about 20 minutes/ day. The first day of our week at home I review every subject for the current week that they learned the day before. The other days we review by subject area, covering several subjects each day. We also listen to songs in the car.

 

The other thing I discovered as my oldest got older is that even though we did rich, CM-style learning when he was young, he didn't remember near as much as I thought he would later. I don't regret what we did, but as far as what he remembers, the contextual learning didn't make near the impact I thought it would. So, my hopes are that connecting the timeline to our history progression at home will allow the context to reinforce the drill and the drill to reinforce the context. (My original plan was to notebook the timeline cards... I confess that is one thing we dropped when our week got too full....)

 

The other thing I'm really appreciating is Essentials. We never tried it the first time around. As a CM-er, IEW didn't appeal to me at all. But, as I struggled with my oldest to move from CM narrations to other types of writing, I began to look for a different way to approach writing with my younger children. I am loving how IEW and Essentials is gradually leading them into more challenging writing assignments. I love that they want to do a good job on their assignments because they are turning them in, and possibly reading them in class, etc.

 

So, inspite of all my rambling, the short answer is I think you can have both, but you will probably have to make some compromises. Only you will know if you can do that, still accomplish your goals, and if the value of CC is worth making those compromises. I didn't discover that it was (worth it for us) until I left it and came back.

 

The bolded part is something I have been most concerned about regarding other co-ops in my area. I really appreciate the smooth-running, clear-expectation, parents-taking-it-seriously aspect of this particular CC group. Not that it can't exist in a different type of co-op of course! But I'm not sure I have access to something comparable that is not CC, if that makes sense.

 

This provides lots of food for thought for me.

 

One thing I was wondering about, maybe worried about, is whether CC would be TOO competitive. My son is a major perfectionist with two competitive parents (in that we were both academic standouts, BUT the minus to that was that I feel my dh and I both 'learned to the test' and thus were rather shallow in our quest for knowledge---we just wanted to make the grade). I don't want my children to be more interested in competition than in learning for the sake of learning.

 

Does anyone else have any thoughts on the competition issue? My husband thinks 'healthy competition' is a good thing, but it isn't very Charlotte Mason-y!

[pehp]

thank you for this well-thought out, thorough response! I really appreciate it.

 

My son, too, has made a few surprising connections (even though I'm a memory work slacker this year). Not many, honestly (probably b/c I'm a memory work slacker) but a few. He did specifically ask me today to purchase the timeline cards. He realized another boy in the class had them and he doesn't!!! *HE* (my son) really does seem engaged by the program and interested in it.

 

Hmm. Food for thought. Thank you so much. :)

 

 

This is our second full year of CC and my oldest is 10. When we first joined CC she was 5 and although we had fun I quit halfway through the year because I didn't see the point. She couldn't understand what she was learning and she is my kiddo that has a hard time memorizing. My second child, who was 3 at the time, was picking up a lot, but he wasn't even school age yet.

 

I told myself I could do it better at home and I was exhausted with too much on my plate in general and so we left to do our own thing at home. I was using a very intense history curriculum and adding CC in just didn't make as much sense as I thought it would. But as time went on I realized that the truth was we weren't doing the memory work at home and my kids weren't retaining long term much of all that wonderful history curriculum I had been using. They were getting a feel for history but they really couldn't talk about it in detail. The longer we spent on history (especially hands-on type stuff) the less we actually got to the 3 R's and I felt more and more guilty as we fell further an further behind. I also would do major overhauls to get rid of our curriculum to try to find what "worked", which also cost us time and money.

 

Once I finally settled on classical education (after trying many methods) I realized that there was no way I could teach multiple levels of Shirley grammar and I didn't like that it didn't include diagramming. I realized that CC's Essentials program was the most efficient way to get a thorough grounding in grammar to make them completely ready for studying other languages in the other grades and it was the most practical in that all my kids in grades 4-6 (which will be two much of the time) will be doing the same things. And that once a week they would have 2 hours of instruction with me at their side and my little ones in the nursery. They would also have the motivation of turning in their papers to their tutor and reading their papers to their peers and I would have the accountability that went along with that. That just made sense. So we signed up for Foundations (didn't think my daughter was quite ready for Essentials at that time but wanted to prepare her well) and we have not looked back.

 

I also did not think I wanted to do the Challenge program but the more I look into it the more I like it. There are some things I will still want to add, but for the money my kids will get some solid help and direction in Math, Science, and Latin (among other things) and those are subjects I don't think I want to tackle on my own with them in those grades. I couldn't afford to pay for online classes for all my kids in those subjects either so I think it is worth the money. I have heard many times that when they get to Challenge the things they learned in Foundations and Essentials are so helpful and the ones who have it are really prepared to tackle the subjects and assignments they are given. I would assume that that would be the case no matter what they did from 7th grade on with Foundations and Essentials under their belt.

 

The thing I missed the first time around was that big picture. I like that they started with Challenge and as they encountered holes in the kids' knowledge that hindered higher level studies they filled them with memory work to avoid that for younger students by teaching it to them early. I am amazed every week by the connections my kids make in the world and in the Word because of what they've learned in CC. I know my 5 year old (who is in his second year at CC) will know so much more at 10 than my oldest does because of CC. The interest the memory work sparks is wonderful. At first it seems disjointed, but as you go along you begin to see so many connections if you are just using the information they give in their highlights and on the backs of their cards.

 

I watch the moms in my 4 and 5 year old's class and the ones that are new are obviously enjoying the community but I can tell they don't really get it yet. But the ones that have older ones are really understanding what we are doing with these little ones and why it is worth it, and they wish they had started sooner with their older ones.

 

What I didn't realize in the beginning of homeschooling was how important retention was to learning and how to achieve it. You can't build on what you don't keep in your brain. The 3 year cycle may seem a bit odd to people but the more times you run through it the more you will truly learn it. That is why they do so much repetition. But they do pick up more each time as their ability to understand grows and the easier the memorization is the second time around the more brain space they have for soaking up more of the context. Its just not easy to see at first.

 

Here is one example. My third son, age 5, and I were looking at a map in an illustrated Children's Bible. He was able to tell me where the fertile crescent was, Assyria, Babylon, the Hebrew Empire, etc. without me prompting him and suddenly he was making connections about the Bible stories he knew and where things happened. He was trying to figure out which temple was destroyed from our timeline song and which one was rebuilt, etc. My oldest spent a lot of time doing Bible activities with me, but I never made her memorize the maps. So even though the names were familiar to her she couldn't see them in her mind when I read to her and she couldn't make connections to other cultures or things going on in history at that time (even though we were using a curriculum that was designed to do that). So I see doors of understanding opening up in my younger ones that were never there for my older ones when they are little no matter how I tried with other methods and I am ecstatic to see how they will know the history and geography of the world (among other things) so much better than I ever did (and probably ever will).

 

I have not even mentioned here the benefits of the Latin (which I use daily when I help my 10 year old with her Latin) or Math (which has allowed my kids to memorize and start to understand their multiplication tables much before it was even introduced in their curriculum). I have also not mentioned the English grammar (which I also use when teaching IEW and LOE) and the Science Acts and Facts cards, which have continued to allow them to make connections to history and know vocabulary they wouldn't otherwise know.

 

Finally, what CC has done for us is to allow us to focus on the skill subjects that are so important for learning, and to make the most of our time in the content areas without needing to do exhausting planning or gathering of materials or specific books. It regularly spurs rich discussions as we make all these connections between subjects and it has sparked a fire in their interest in the world and an awe of its Creator. It has given us a vision and a passion for learning. That is priceless. I urge you to stick it out a little longer and work at learning the memory work a little harder and talk with moms who have been in it for 2 or more years and see what they say. Many of them do the bare minimum at first but as time goes on they understand the methodology more and more and begin to make it the heart of their curriculum and LOVE it.....and the benefits their kids are getting from it. Otherwise you may be like myself and some of the others on this board who had to leave it to realize what it was worth.....

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

We are in our 3rd year with CC, and I just wrote a very lengthy post about it. I'll try to sum up here.

 

I have three boys (10, 8, and 6). We started when they were 8, 6, and 4. I had a baby in week two of that year! We only participated in Foundations for the first two years.

 

Until this year, we spent time reviewing all the memory work but certainly let some of the subjects slide. It depended on what I wanted to focus on, what the boys enjoyed, and what was age appropriate. This year we are putting a little more effort into it as I have two boys who would like to try for Memory Master.

 

What I have learned:

1. The boys simply enjoy most of the memory work whether or not they have a bunch of context.

2. It is a fairly simple thing to add in some basic context with the science cards, history cards, or books we have on hand. Even YouTube videos. :)

3. My boys have a *much* stronger interest and retention when we cover a topic later (even two years later). They light up and say, hey, I *know* this! Memorization can be a huge confidence builder, especially for intimidating subjects such as Latin. They also make unexpected connections that I could never plan or schedule. (We were reading about the time of Shakespeare in our vocab book, and my 7 year old said, 'So that would have been after Columbus but right before the pilgrims.')

4. The memory work corresponds with our general studies, even if it doesn't line up week by week.

5. I am *astounded* at what my youngest son retains and enjoys. Things I never would have expected.

6. I am continually amazed at how often the memory work topics come up in conversation, whether during lessons or just in the midst of life. We spend time *talking* about things, and it is so much easier when all of us have the same vocabulary and jumping off place.

 

It isn't always easy to see the benefits in the short term. Now that my oldest son is participating in Essentials, I am getting a taste for what it is like when the memory work hits the pavement. Quality content committed to memory is the gift that keeps on giving. :)

 

My sister's two kids have participated in the Challenge program for the past three years, so I have also listened to her share how much it would have helped them if they had had the benefit of knowing the memory work before hitting the upper levels.

 

All that said, I don't know that I would have put my youngest son in at 4 if he had been my oldest. I think somewhere around 1st grade is an excellent time to begin. The first time through the 3 cycles can be introductory. The second time through, the memory work can be mastered, and kids can enter the Essentials program in the afternoon. I had really low expectations for my 4/5 year old. :) He just enjoyed getting to do what his big brothers were doing, including being a part of memory review time at home. Honestly, even my 2 yo thinks it is a blast. She sings only two songs. Happy Birthday and the Latin noun declensions. Ha!

 

BTW, my oldest son understands the concept behind skip counting, but math facts are very difficult for him to memorize. Skip counting revolutionized math for him. He feels so much more capable in math now, which is priceless to me.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Heidi @ Mt Hope

[stm4him]

Just want to say that how much a 4 year old remembers depends on their personality and learning style in addition to how much mom helps with it. If the child is a visual learner (meaning word-visual, not picture-visual) then they aren't going to do as well until/unless they can read. But auditory kids learn a ton. So if you have a kiddo who isn't just picking it up easily (like my first and my fourth) you can know that the main benefit in the short term is that you and your child(ren) are building a community which will help you homeschool and which will play a role in your life support system (which having a child with leukemia makes you realize). And no matter how much they "get" that first time through (ages 3-5 or 6 depending on if they have older siblings), they will still do better the second time than they would otherwise......so it is still worth it!

[aminuteorless]

Thank you for this thread. I am considering CC for us next year. I have been mulling over the same exact questions.

[Paula in MS]

I would encourage you to look at the memory work a different way. Don't think of it as being out of context but just learning the basics. When you memorize the parts of an animal cell, you have learned SOMETHING about cells. They may learn more about cells in an elementary science class and even more when they take biology. It is not necessary to learn all about animal cells that week at home. When they learn a history song about Confucius, it is not necessary to "study" him further at that point. The memory work is just a peg to hang further information on. For some people, it is that same week. For others, like myself, the information comes whenever we get to it. We use the memory work as an extra subject. I do not coordinate our studies around it at all, but connections are made all the time.

 

I have to say, I personally feel a lot smarter after a year and a half of Classical Conversations. I hear other parents say the same thing all the time. It's not all about the kids. :lol:

 

I am also going to put in a plug about the IPAD app. This is a great way to memorize the facts. Well worth the money.

[KeriJ]

This is our second full year of CC and my oldest is 10. When we first joined CC she was 5 and although we had fun I quit halfway through the year because I didn't see the point. She couldn't understand what she was learning and she is my kiddo that has a hard time memorizing. My second child, who was 3 at the time, was picking up a lot, but he wasn't even school age yet.

 

I told myself I could do it better at home and I was exhausted with too much on my plate in general and so we left to do our own thing at home. I was using a very intense history curriculum and adding CC in just didn't make as much sense as I thought it would. But as time went on I realized that the truth was we weren't doing the memory work at home and my kids weren't retaining long term much of all that wonderful history curriculum I had been using. They were getting a feel for history but they really couldn't talk about it in detail. The longer we spent on history (especially hands-on type stuff) the less we actually got to the 3 R's and I felt more and more guilty as we fell further an further behind. I also would do major overhauls to get rid of our curriculum to try to find what "worked", which also cost us time and money.

 

Once I finally settled on classical education (after trying many methods) I realized that there was no way I could teach multiple levels of Shirley grammar and I didn't like that it didn't include diagramming. I realized that CC's Essentials program was the most efficient way to get a thorough grounding in grammar to make them completely ready for studying other languages in the other grades and it was the most practical in that all my kids in grades 4-6 (which will be two much of the time) will be doing the same things. And that once a week they would have 2 hours of instruction with me at their side and my little ones in the nursery. They would also have the motivation of turning in their papers to their tutor and reading their papers to their peers and I would have the accountability that went along with that. That just made sense. So we signed up for Foundations (didn't think my daughter was quite ready for Essentials at that time but wanted to prepare her well) and we have not looked back.

 

I also did not think I wanted to do the Challenge program but the more I look into it the more I like it. There are some things I will still want to add, but for the money my kids will get some solid help and direction in Math, Science, and Latin (among other things) and those are subjects I don't think I want to tackle on my own with them in those grades. I couldn't afford to pay for online classes for all my kids in those subjects either so I think it is worth the money. I have heard many times that when they get to Challenge the things they learned in Foundations and Essentials are so helpful and the ones who have it are really prepared to tackle the subjects and assignments they are given. I would assume that that would be the case no matter what they did from 7th grade on with Foundations and Essentials under their belt.

 

The thing I missed the first time around was that big picture. I like that they started with Challenge and as they encountered holes in the kids' knowledge that hindered higher level studies they filled them with memory work to avoid that for younger students by teaching it to them early. I am amazed every week by the connections my kids make in the world and in the Word because of what they've learned in CC. I know my 5 year old (who is in his second year at CC) will know so much more at 10 than my oldest does because of CC. The interest the memory work sparks is wonderful. At first it seems disjointed, but as you go along you begin to see so many connections if you are just using the information they give in their highlights and on the backs of their cards.

 

I watch the moms in my 4 and 5 year old's class and the ones that are new are obviously enjoying the community but I can tell they don't really get it yet. But the ones that have older ones are really understanding what we are doing with these little ones and why it is worth it, and they wish they had started sooner with their older ones.

 

What I didn't realize in the beginning of homeschooling was how important retention was to learning and how to achieve it. You can't build on what you don't keep in your brain. The 3 year cycle may seem a bit odd to people but the more times you run through it the more you will truly learn it. That is why they do so much repetition. But they do pick up more each time as their ability to understand grows and the easier the memorization is the second time around the more brain space they have for soaking up more of the context. Its just not easy to see at first.

 

Here is one example. My third son, age 5, and I were looking at a map in an illustrated Children's Bible. He was able to tell me where the fertile crescent was, Assyria, Babylon, the Hebrew Empire, etc. without me prompting him and suddenly he was making connections about the Bible stories he knew and where things happened. He was trying to figure out which temple was destroyed from our timeline song and which one was rebuilt, etc. My oldest spent a lot of time doing Bible activities with me, but I never made her memorize the maps. So even though the names were familiar to her she couldn't see them in her mind when I read to her and she couldn't make connections to other cultures or things going on in history at that time (even though we were using a curriculum that was designed to do that). So I see doors of understanding opening up in my younger ones that were never there for my older ones when they are little no matter how I tried with other methods and I am ecstatic to see how they will know the history and geography of the world (among other things) so much better than I ever did (and probably ever will).

 

I have not even mentioned here the benefits of the Latin (which I use daily when I help my 10 year old with her Latin) or Math (which has allowed my kids to memorize and start to understand their multiplication tables much before it was even introduced in their curriculum). I have also not mentioned the English grammar (which I also use when teaching IEW and LOE) and the Science Acts and Facts cards, which have continued to allow them to make connections to history and know vocabulary they wouldn't otherwise know.

 

Finally, what CC has done for us is to allow us to focus on the skill subjects that are so important for learning, and to make the most of our time in the content areas without needing to do exhausting planning or gathering of materials or specific books. It regularly spurs rich discussions as we make all these connections between subjects and it has sparked a fire in their interest in the world and an awe of its Creator. It has given us a vision and a passion for learning. That is priceless. I urge you to stick it out a little longer and work at learning the memory work a little harder and talk with moms who have been in it for 2 or more years and see what they say. Many of them do the bare minimum at first but as time goes on they understand the methodology more and more and begin to make it the heart of their curriculum and LOVE it.....and the benefits their kids are getting from it. Otherwise you may be like myself and some of the others on this board who had to leave it to realize what it was worth.....

 

This was such a helpful post!

[stm4him]

Thanks :-) I'm glad it was helpful to someone!

 

Regarding competition: Some of my kids thrive on this and others don't really like it (and are a bit intimidated by it) but they are all motivated to try harder because of it. They are very unlikely to go through life without exposure to competition so I use it as character training material, both for the one(s) that are scared of it and the ones that try to overrun everyone with their abilities (which isn't good either). I have some that are perfectionists and some that I have to push to care about the details. But it has not been bad for any of them to grow in this area and I have rarely (if ever) detected any kids being made fun of or being made to feel bad if they can't remember things (this is strongly discouraged by the tutors), but they are given healthy pushes as they get older to practice in the areas where there are weaknesses. This is done in the context of the entire class and what they are all weak on....never singling out a particular child. "Everyone practice Latin and Geography this week!" kinda thing.....

[G5052]

by all means, stay in. We did Foundations/Essentials through two full cycles (6 years), and I have no regrets. I've seen the payoff over and over. We actually gave up our vacations during several lean years in order to do CC.

 

Mine never did memory master, and never felt pressured to do that. I did require that they learn the timeline, history songs, and English grammar each year.

 

I had always figured we'd do Challenge with all six seminars each year all of the way through, but it hasn't quite worked out the way we'd expected in terms of having the levels of seminars we need and a motivated, academically-oriented peer group. I don't regret the Challenge levels we've done, but we're doing mix-and-match elsewhere for most of high school. So don't feel like you have to do Challenge either. Even if you don't, Foundations/Essentials will provide a great start.

[Another Lynn]

Thanks :-) I'm glad it was helpful to someone!

 

Regarding competition: Some of my kids thrive on this and others don't really like it (and are a bit intimidated by it) but they are all motivated to try harder because of it. They are very unlikely to go through life without exposure to competition so I use it as character training material, both for the one(s) that are scared of it and the ones that try to overrun everyone with their abilities (which isn't good either). I have some that are perfectionists and some that I have to push to care about the details. But it has not been bad for any of them to grow in this area and I have rarely (if ever) detected any kids being made fun of or being made to feel bad if they can't remember things (this is strongly discouraged by the tutors), but they are given healthy pushes as they get older to practice in the areas where there are weaknesses. This is done in the context of the entire class and what they are all weak on....never singling out a particular child. "Everyone practice Latin and Geography this week!" kinda thing.....

 

:iagree: regarding competition. Great points!

 

Also, while it was my heart to protect my oldest from competition (and comparison) when he was younger, I had to learn the hard way how much he needed competition when he got a little older.

[stm4him]

I'm really hoping that in the future there will be more and more complete Challenge programs as more and more moms stay with CC and sort of "grow up with it". I am even trying to encourage my husband to be a Challenge 1 teacher as I think he'd love it. I'd attempt it if my plate weren't so full at home.......

[G5052]

I'm really hoping that in the future there will be more and more complete Challenge programs as more and more moms stay with CC and sort of "grow up with it". I am even trying to encourage my husband to be a Challenge 1 teacher as I think he'd love it. I'd attempt it if my plate weren't so full at home.......

 

I've been asked over and over, and couldn't see how I could juggle it without significant impact on my own children. When they were younger, I couldn't justify hiring someone to care for my own children while I prepared and taught, which is something that I've seen some Challenge Directors with younger children do. Maybe when mine are grown, but it is off the table at present because my teens still need me.

[pehp]

These replies have been SO useful to me. It's hard for me to get on the computer much so I'm not responding much but I've read the replies (some of them several times) and have been ruminating on them and have just found them SO useful.

 

Heidi, your post was so thorough--thank you!! I will check out your blog, too.

 

I appreciate the input on competition. Perhaps something like CC, in which the 'competition' is friendly, mild, and not all-encompassing (that is, the other 4.5 school days per week we will still be doing our thing) is a good and healthy thing. My husband in particular THRIVES on competition and I do think there's some value to it in our world. I just don't want to have that be the focus of our lives in the way it was (making the grade) for us as youngsters. We both did really well academically but I honestly felt like I wasted some of my education b/c I was just so concerned w/ 'getting the grade' that I didn't engage with the materials the way I may have otherwise. But perhaps I'm just imagining that?! Anyhow--CC isn't all-invasive in the same way a 5 day a week school environment is...so perhaps it can provide a dose of competition without the focus on it as the 'sole' driving force.....

 

The other thing I REALLY like about CC is the fact that the children are required to do presentations. I think public speaking is SO important. Being comfortable in front of an audience and learning the art of speaking in front of people with assurance is a skill that children really need to learn. And I LOVE that it starts with 'show and tell' and then evolves into more structured presentations as the years progress. My son is quite shy (a bit of social anxiety) so for him in particular I think this is so useful. He enjoys the presentations and doesn't say much, but he does do them and doesn't get nervous or upset. I feel that's invaluable.

 

I talked to my husband in great detail about this today--we rarely ever talk about school as he allows me to make all the decisions!!--but I wanted his input. He listened to my explanation of everything and said he believed that we can continue doing CC as a supplement--I don't have to revolve everything around it. (Like history--I don't want to have use CC as my history spine.) He thinks that doing my own thing, plus reviewing the memory work next year each day (right now we just do it on the fly, but it is amazing how much my son knows--he learned the preposition song within just a few times listening to it!!) for about 10-15 minutes would strike the right balance--I'd be able to do my own thing, but we'd still be honoring the fact that we're doing *some* memory work for CC. I don't want him to be lost!

 

He did ask me a few days ago to buy the timeline cards. I think previously he thought only the tutors had them, but then he learned 2 other children in his class both have some. I'd only ordered the book and the CDs at the start of the year. The cards look so nice (the art is wonderful!) that I think it will be a good investment, particularly since he's interested in them. Right now for kindy/Year 0 we are not doing any history (I decided the 3Rs plus science were sufficient for the first semester--he asked for science otherwise I'd never have done it)...but I think what I"ll do is to get the timeline cards and start using them after Christmas as just a very light 'talking about it' history--look at the card, discuss it briefly, move on. Just as an intro. Not requiring any extra work on my part, and keeping it light and gentle (he's only 5!!!).

 

My wheels are turning!!! After the Christmas-dust-settles I will start planning Year 1 (I'm mostly going to follow the AO curriculum, with my own little tweaks), so I am trying to think through the logistics of CC and our homeschooling now. This thread has been so helpful!

[mathnmusic]

We were in a CC community last year for my DS8, and loved it. However, I had a baby and if we were to continue this year, the cost would have been >$1,000 for 2 kids to be in class and 2 in childcare. That made CC prohibitive for us. However, I had the foundation guide, timeline cards and the year of learning how to do CC. So along with a friend who is committed to doing CC at home, we've been doing our own little CC co-op this year, and it's been fantastic. We do it JUST like CC - present new material, science experiment, art, presentations, and review games. With fewer kids, we have a bit more time so the one thing that's different is that we do present context for history and science - we take turns teaching, and whoever teaches explains what the history sentence or science topic is about. The kids are learning just as much as last year, actually even more since there's context built into each week of CC. I have to say that I like CC a lot, but I think the fees the company charges put the classes out of reach, at least they are for our family.