WWYD: 1st semester 9th grade science is a wash...

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[regentrude]

I do not see why this would leave you without a science credit - this is only end of October. He could start a new science next week, spend a little extra time, and still finish a full credit by the end of the summer.

Are you forced by your umbrella school to only start classes either in fall or January?

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[swimmermom3]

I do not see why this would leave you without a science credit - this is only end of October. He could start a new science next week, spend a little extra time, and still finish a full credit by the end of the summer.

Are you forced by your umbrella school to only start classes either in fall or January?

:iagree:Depending on the curriculum you choose, with a bit of extra work you could probably finish by the end of the traditional school year as long as your son is not struggling in other classes.

 

What are you using for Physical Science and what exactly is your son struggling with?

[bobbeym]

If you're working from a text or some sort of spine, then you would be done when he finished the book, whether that was in 26 weeks or 38.

 

I would have him start a new one as soon as you can, doubling up on lessons when time allows, and maybe have him work on it a little through Christmas break if you feel he needs more time to catch up.

 

I share you're struggles. We scrapped both english and world history last month and I *still* haven't figured out what world history curric to go with instead.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[klmama]

PMing you.

[bugs]

Could you use a different Physical Science Book where the math is simpler? My daughter struggled in 9th grade with Conceptual Physics. I switched to McGraw Hill/Glencoe Physical Science. Most of the concepts I needed were there in simplified form.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Last year ds used BJU Physical Science and hated it. Did not grasp what they were saying. We switched midway to Apologia (I swore I would NEVER use Apologia again but...) and it was night and day. He started reading it and said he finally understood what the BJU text was trying to teach him. He made a comment about Apologia after the first few lessons, something like "What BJU was trying to get across in several scientific filled pages, it took Apologia to get across in a few normal word filled paragraphs."

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[curlylocks]

I have the Apologia book too and have looked through it. Ds did the first part of the book last year (the earth science/weather chapters) then hit a wall when he got to the introductory physics/chem parts. We set it aside for many reasons, but mostly because of the fact that there were ZERO teaching helps for me apart from the answer book and the tutorial class ds was in just kept getting further and further ahead.

 

Now DS is so done in by the BJU that he has just about given up ("I like science but I'm just no good at it!"). His head goes down and shoulders droop whenever you even mention "science", and this is a pretty easy-going cooperative kid.

 

It has been rough.

 

(BTW, thanks and :grouphug: to those who have pm'd me. It has been a great encouragement )

 

Do you have the companion CD? It has come in handy on quite a few occasions.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

I have the Apologia book too and have looked through it. Ds did the first part of the book last year (the earth science/weather chapters) then hit a wall when he got to the introductory physics/chem parts. We set it aside for many reasons, but mostly because of the fact that there were ZERO teaching helps for me apart from the answer book and the tutorial class ds was in just kept getting further and further ahead.

 

Now DS is so done in by the BJU that he has just about given up ("I like science but I'm just no good at it!"). His head goes down and shoulders droop whenever you even mention "science", and this is a pretty easy-going cooperative kid.

 

It has been rough.

 

(BTW, thanks and :grouphug: to those who have pm'd me. It has been a great encouragement )

I understand. Ds was my kid who created a lab in his bathroom, experimented with everything, and begged to do more and more science, this was until about 7th grade. Then it was nothing but confusion and even depression when science was involved. I wish I could go back and change how we did science so he can still have that spark for all things science.

[EKS]

If physical science is a problem, I don't see how chemistry and physics are going to be better when they come around in a year or two. Which two sciences besides biology were you planning on doing?

 

Have you tried switching curriculum? For example, Derek Owens offers a physical science course. He gives clear lectures, has fair assignments and tests, and he gets you out of the picture.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[EKS]

 

As far as switching curriculum, I don't see how that will help at this point. The idea with BJU was to have daily lectures to support the text, not just hit-or-miss explanations (like with the Apologia cd) or a once per week tutorial (an irl local class). However, the text and dvd are over his head (over mine too, frankly, when I watched with him) and the explanations are convoluted imho.

 

If the explanations are convoluted, then switching curriculum is the place I'd start. Take a look at Derek Owens' physical science lectures to see if they're any more understandable.

 

My other suggestion is to work ahead of him in whatever program you choose so that you can anticipate rough spots and guide him through (or hire a tutor to answer his questions).

[regentrude]

ETA: The math is killing him. For some reason, the idea of taking a basic formula and plugging in information from a problem just doesn't make sense to him. Add in significant digits and all the unit conversions, and you can hang it up. Just ain't gonna happen right now.

 

That was the problem discussed in your earlier thread in August or so. What have you done to address his lack of prealgebra skills? To me, that would be the most important question, more important that what science, because if this is not fixed, he won't be succeeding in a later semester either. You had gotten several suggestions to remedy his math - has any of them been successful?

 

If he is just starting algebra 1 this semester, and if his prealgebra is weak (you mentioned he has trouble with ratios and unit conversions), no wonder plugging things into formulas does not make sense. I would not expect it to.

 

Totally out of the box suggestion: does this have to be his 9th grade year? Can you take an extra year to get him up to speed? I would not suggest this if he was not college bound, but for a kid heading towards a science major (marine biology, with all the math, physics and oodles of chemistry it involves), he is not really on track for success. Just something to think about.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[kiana]

Honestly, you both sound defeated :/

 

I would take some time off science for breathing room, and then start something with a lot less math. In the meantime, I would keep working on math skills. I would also consider (as you mentioned this has been a problem for a while) working on something like this: http://beginningspublishing.com/oscommerce/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=38 right before he starts his next math-intensive science (whether it's chemistry or physics). I would not consider doing another physical science until he has completed algebra 1 for sure.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I got ds a math and science tutor (he covered both). It made a world of difference.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Has he covered enough last year and this year to count a half credit of Physical Science?

 

Could you do the problems together WITH him?

 

My state umbrella does not count Physical Science as a high school credit anymore. Perhaps move on to Biology? It is still early enough in the year to complete 75 to 80% of a Biology book by June 15.

 

I have to turn in grades on Jan 15 and June 15 also. In the past, I've found myself having to "tweak" assignments to meet those deadlines. One does not have to answer every single question, do every single problem, or test on every single chapter.

 

I've also found that a student who bombs a written test might very well know the material in the chapter. Oral discussions and narrations many times allow me to evaluate better than a written assignment. (Granted, you can't narrate plug-n-numbers math problems. :D )

[swimmermom3]

:grouphug: Shari, I think before you and your son can move forward, you need to ask yourself some tough questions. How do you feel about math and science? Your answer is important to your son's success in those subjects. Either you have a background in them like regentrude which facilitates teaching them or you do as Kai says and work ahead of your son so you can anticipate glitches. Perhaps I am misreading your posts, but I get the feeling that you are uncomfortable teaching at least the science. Part of homeschooling high school is knowing when to outsource a subject.

[elfgivas]

this is part of what we are using for grade 9 science.

 

http://sherrisonlineclasses.weebly.com/index.html

 

she offers two year-long classes, but another that is a semester class, so that might work for after christmas. then a 1/2 credit for what he's managed so far, and a 1/2 credit for sheri's semester course, and that would mean he wasn't behind. dd finds her very interesting and engaging, and that might help at this point, too :001_smile:.

 

hth,

ann

[FaithManor]

That was the problem discussed in your earlier thread in August or so. What have you done to address his lack of prealgebra skills? To me, that would be the most important question, more important that what science, because if this is not fixed, he won't be succeeding in a later semester either. You had gotten several suggestions to remedy his math - has any of them been successful?

 

If he is just starting algebra 1 this semester, and if his prealgebra is weak (you mentioned he has trouble with ratios and unit conversions), no wonder plugging things into formulas does not make sense. I would not expect it to.

 

Totally out of the box suggestion: does this have to be his 9th grade year? Can you take an extra year to get him up to speed? I would not suggest this if he was not college bound, but for a kid heading towards a science major (marine biology, with all the math, physics and oodles of chemistry it involves), he is not really on track for success. Just something to think about.

 

I really have to agree with Regentrude on this one. I'd stop focusing on this being his 9th grade year, make a list of what needs to be remediated, and then focus on finding solutions to those issues. Going to college a 19 is great thing! Really, many college profs LOVE the extra maturity that the 19 and 20 year olds bring to the freshman classes.

 

Marine Biology is not what it was 20 or 30 years ago when many of us were exploring college majors. Biochemistry and physics undergird these sciences heavily and more is required mathematically of biology majors then every before. Don't let that discourage him. Just help him embrace the challenge. In order to not kill his love of this science, whatever you land on to remediate math skills and move forward with science, allow plenty of time for reading and exploration of the topic.

 

He'll definitely need chem and physics. I would not worry about anatomy and physiology. I would look at science electives such as environmental science, ecology, and zoology. There are some good freshman level college books out there that are written as very introductory material. I'd get one and let him read to his heart's content so that he feels like he's pursuing his passion even if, for the time being, he feels stalled. Make some assignments, find some meaningful labs to go with them, make up quizzes and end of term exams, if you wish and issue a credit. Science electives look great on transcripts for budding scientists.

 

Everything hinges on the algebras. Pre-Algebra/Algebra 1 would be my number one priority and if possible, consider hiring a tutor to give yourself some breathing room as well as a new and enthusiastic perspective. If you both feel beaten down, it's hard to find and role model a "can do" spirit.

 

Faith

[tex-mex]

Could you use a different Physical Science Book where the math is simpler? My daughter struggled in 9th grade with Conceptual Physics. I switched to McGraw Hill/Glencoe Physical Science. Most of the concepts I needed were there in simplified form.

:iagree:

I agree with those who say to hold him back and repeat 9th grade. Do remediation for Pre-Algebra also.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

:grouphug: I am greatly encouraged here. Pretty much in the same boat.

 

DH blames me and offers to help every year.... nada

 

Chalk Dust is a great change for us!

Edited October 30, 2012 by TGHEALTHYMOM

[abbeyej]

Have you tried switching curriculum? For example, Derek Owens offers a physical science course. He gives clear lectures, has fair assignments and tests, and he gets you out of the picture.

 

I think this is all true... But I don't think it will work without a *solid* grounding in pre-algebra (and better yet, some algebra 1) going into it...

[brownie]

are you not allowed to simplify the course? The skills you mentioned are unusual for a 9th grade course. Even the "honors" science kids usually take bio in 9th, chem in 10th (where they start to see some of these things), and then get into the AP courses in 11th and 12th where they start to hit them hard. I can tell from the math curriculum that unit conversions is something they are pushing earlier and earlier but I can also tell you that there were many a college sophomore who failed out of engineering because they couldn't manage unit conversions.

[bluedarling]

My 13 and 15yo are doing Apologia Physical Science right now (the part your son got part-way through last year.) The 15yo won't have algebra completed by the start of next year...so your son is ahead of mine!! We did make last year (what should have been his 9th grade year) a revisit of 8th grade...because his math and writing are so far behind (and we decided it about the same time last year.) He completed MUS Epsilon (fractions) and half of Zeta (decimals) last year, and is much better for it. He's almost heading into Pre-Algebra, now, and I'm hoping the pace will pick up once he's beyond arithmetic...he's highly analytical. He knows he works slowly, so he tells people he's just going to take 5 years for high school...I guess its better than saying, "I failed 8th grade." I don't regret giving him the extra time. He seems much more confident about heading into high school level work. He would like to go into sciences, but based on his academic pace, we have suggested he find a trade, at least initially. Then, if he decides to go on to college, he can do so at his own pace. Anyway, pretty much I'm in the same boat...just wanted to encourage you that starting high school a year later is possible.

[abbeyej]

are you not allowed to simplify the course? The skills you mentioned are unusual for a 9th grade course. Even the "honors" science kids usually take bio in 9th, chem in 10th (where they start to see some of these things), and then get into the AP courses in 11th and 12th where they start to hit them hard. I can tell from the math curriculum that unit conversions is something they are pushing earlier and earlier but I can also tell you that there were many a college sophomore who failed out of engineering because they couldn't manage unit conversions.

 

Hm. I disagree. Physical Science is often an 8th or 9th grade course requiring only pre-algebra skills as pre-requisite (and taken alongside algebra 1). Algebra-based physics is often taken in 9th or 10th grade in a "physics first" model where physics is seen as foundational to chemistry and biology.

[swimmermom3]

Hm. I disagree. Physical Science is often an 8th or 9th grade course requiring only pre-algebra skills as pre-requisite (and taken alongside algebra 1). Algebra-based physics is often taken in 9th or 10th grade in a "physics first" model where physics is seen as foundational to chemistry and biology.

 

:iagree:I think the point is that you really can't simplify the science any further and call it "high school" science. As stated by another poster, many schools do not count physical science as a course.

 

Unit conversions are basically fractions that require some logical thinking as far as knowing where you are starting from and where you want to end up. This is an appropriate skill to master for an 8th/9th grader interested in science. If I were in this situation, I would probably scale back on most of my subjects except for writing, to make extra time for the math and then the science when the student is ready.