Mom troubles

[Bonkers247]

There's a lot of backstory I'll skip for now. My mom has been at my house a lot this past week. She heard me tell my 9 year old that I wanted her to try and figure out the last few math problems on her own. (I had helped her with twenty others and she had missed the same thing each time so I wanted to see if she could figure it out.) My mom, on the way to dinner, was whispering help to my daughter. I confronted her about it and she cried, as usual. Later in the week she disappeared downstairs with th kids while they were cleaning up. She comeback upstairs later and made a point to tell me that she only kept them on task and did not help. (She knows I feel that if the kids can make the mess on their own that they should clean it up on their own.) she let it slip later that she was helping them clean. I can't have her going behind my back on things involving my children. She is teaching them to be deceitful and that they don't have to do what I say. I'm just not sure what to do to deal with this before it becomes a huge issue. Any advice is appreciated.

[MommaOfalotta]

Im sorry.. I dont have much advice. If I did, I would be using it myself:grouphug:

 

We LIVE with my mother. She is the same way.

 

Oh, and shes also a teacher. So she is all up in our homeschool:glare:

 

The only advice I would think to give would be to talk to her about his. Lay down the law. But if shes anything my mother.. it wont do much good. I don't know if you would consider this approach too extreme but you may even tell her if she doesn't respect your wishes to not come over during school hours, or while chores are being done. (?) Only visit socially until she can respect you as a parent?

 

Once we move I will implement this with no issue whatsoever. But then again, my mother and I have a very unpleasant relationship. (And that is quite the understatement.)

 

Sorry I can't help. Just know that I feel for you!

Edited October 14, 2012 by BlessedMomma

[Night Elf]

She is teaching them to be deceitful and that they don't have to do what I say.

 

I'd tell her exactly that and tell her 'shame on you.' I really would.

[NotSoObvious]

I'm sorry. We've been at this for 5 years with my mom and it's still not better. I hate it and I have just reigned myself to the fact that when we are with my mom, I will be made into the wicked witch and leave feeling like she thinks I'm a horrible parent while she makes it all about her and "how hard she's trying." I'm so sick of it and I'm just glad my kids are older now.

It's so disappointing.

 

My advice- you can't change her, but you can set firmer boundaries about the amount of time she is with your family. Do it.

[TammyS]

I'd tell her exactly that and tell her 'shame on you.' I really would.

 

:iagree: I can tell you based on the experience of several people that I know that while it doesn't seem like a huge deal now, this kind of interference can actually ruin families. When outside adults, particularly ones that are close, do anything to interfere with the parent-child relationship it not only undermines the parent's authority, but the child's trust that the parent knows what they are talking about and is a reliable source of guidance. In effect, it takes the parents AWAY from the child and leaves them emotionally orphaned. If your children feel they can't trust you then you can't parent them!

 

I would tell her bluntly that if she is going to do ANYTHING, no matter how minor to her way of thinking, behind your back then she will not be allowed to be alone with the children because she can't be trusted. Which will probably mean seeing them a lot less, because you won't often have the time to provide that kind of direct supervision.

[Elizabeth in MN]

It sounds like a grandma being a grandma. They are prone towards helping and showering kids with love. If I were in your shoes, I'd be really kind to her and say "I know you want to help, but the kids need to learn to do things on their own. They need to be self-starters and they won't learn if you keep doing things for them."

 

Really, the help she is doing - it's her way of showing love for her grandbabies. Just find a way for her to show the love without knocking down the learning oppertunities you're setting up.

[SKL]

I have some aunties around who get me into these fixes at times. They mean well, but they forget how important it is for the kids to respect what Mom says.

 

I tell the kids (with or without the aunties present) that I am their mother and they need to obey my rules regardless of what anyone else says. After fair warning, they will be consequenced for disobeying my rules regardless of who influences them to do so. In front of granny / aunties if necessary.

 

And I always have ready the words to remind people about the importance of parental respect. If a parent doesn't have respect, nothing much can be accomplished. The kids will not feel secure if their parent can be walked over by them, with or without the encouragement of others. Kids can't develop properly if they don't have a respected parental figure. Is it really worth undermining parental authority to do ABC? Yada yada yada. I'm a hardass about this.

 

IMO if granny doesn't want to be called out in front of the kids regularly, granny needs to support and not undermine their respect for mom.

 

ETA: However, I do pick my battles. Of course it's normal for grannies to do little things like occasionally give the kids more sugar or let them stay up later than Mom would normally allow. There should be clear areas where Granny is / isn't allowed her own special granny boundaries.

Edited October 14, 2012 by SKL

[Lisbeth]

1. The tears are manipulative. She is a grown woman.

2. If she can't respect your boundaries, she needs to be around a lot less.

3. Grandmas just being grandmas...doesn't fly with me. Neither does biys will be boys, which is really the same nonsense excuse.

[Catwoman]

It sounds like a grandma being a grandma. They are prone towards helping and showering kids with love. If I were in your shoes, I'd be really kind to her and say "I know you want to help, but the kids need to learn to do things on their own. They need to be self-starters and they won't learn if you keep doing things for them."

 

Really, the help she is doing - it's her way of showing love for her grandbabies. Just find a way for her to show the love without knocking down the learning oppertunities you're setting up.

 

:iagree:

 

I think the tears are ridiculous, manipulative, and childish, though!

 

Tell her if she's going to help the kids with their schoolwork or with their chores, she needs to be upfront and honest about it.

 

I don't consider the helping part to be a big deal, but if she's being sneaky about it and then crying when she gets caught, that's ridiculous and unacceptable. My biggest concern is that she may be telling your kids, "Don't tell Mom. This will be our secret," because that sort of thing doesn't wash with me.

 

So basically, I don't think what she's doing with or for the kids is a big deal, but the deceit about it has to stop. Immediately.

[Impish]

 

I think the tears are ridiculous, manipulative, and childish, though!

 

Tell her if she's going to help the kids with their schoolwork or with their chores, she needs to be upfront and honest about it.

 

I don't consider the helping part to be a big deal, but if she's being sneaky about it and then crying when she gets caught, that's ridiculous and unacceptable. My biggest concern is that she may be telling your kids, "Don't tell Mom. This will be our secret," because that sort of thing doesn't wash with me.

 

So basically, I don't think what she's doing with or for the kids is a big deal, but the deceit about it has to stop. Immediately.

:iagree:I don't buy the 'gma being a gma' thing though. That kind of thinking is one thing when it's happening in THEIR house. Then I can get behind the whole, "their house, their spoiling time...' sort of mind set. To a point. ;)

 

But in *your* house? Nope.

[besroma]

I'd tell her exactly that and tell her 'shame on you.' I really would.

 

:iagree:

[Bonkers247]

:iagree:

 

I think the tears are ridiculous, manipulative, and childish, though!

 

Tell her if she's going to help the kids with their schoolwork or with their chores, she needs to be upfront and honest about it.

 

I don't consider the helping part to be a big deal, but if she's being sneaky about it and then crying when she gets caught, that's ridiculous and unacceptable. My biggest concern is that she may be telling your kids, "Don't tell Mom. This will be our secret," because that sort of thing doesn't wash with me.

 

So basically, I don't think what she's doing with or for the kids is a big deal, but the deceit about it has to stop. Immediately.

I asked the kids if she had said that because, in all honesty, that is a deal breaker. The day I hear she told my kids to keep a secret from me is the last day she has any contact.

[Bonkers247]

Thank you all for your replies. A little bit more information: things have been strained for awhile. I now rarely call her because of how manipulative she can be. Dh and I have agreed that the kids will never go to my parents' house again. Visits are already limited to birthday parties and holidays for the most part. I am only talking to her because my parents are the only grandparents the kids have. Please keep the ideas coming.

[momacacia]

She heard me tell my 9 year old that I wanted her to try and figure out the last few math problems on her own. (I had helped her with twenty others and she had missed the same thing each time so I wanted to see if she could figure it out.) My mom, on the way to dinner, was whispering help to my daughter. I confronted her about it and she cried, as usual.

Ah, yes! I had the Grandma who "helped" me with my math worksheets (additional work my mom would give me in the summer or otherwise to improve math skills) and guess who still can't do math worth two hoots? It's not Grandma.:glare: Not that she's the sole cause of that, of course, but it doesn't help the kid in math, that's for sure. Just saying that you're justified in putting your foot down on this one. Good luck!

[Catwoman]

Thank you all for your replies. A little bit more information: things have been strained for awhile. I now rarely call her because of how manipulative she can be. Dh and I have agreed that the kids will never go to my parents' house again. Visits are already limited to birthday parties and holidays for the most part. I am only talking to her because my parents are the only grandparents the kids have. Please keep the ideas coming.

 

I'm not suggesting that you cut off contact with your mom, but talking to her only because your parents are your kids' only grandparents doesn't mean that you are obligated maintain a relationship with her if she's truly that manipulative.

 

It sounds like you're already limiting the visits, and that you and/or your dh are always present when she sees the kids, so the only other suggestion I have would be to be sure the kids aren't alone with her (if you're concerned about what she will say to them.)

 

The problem with this kind of thread is that there are never enough details in the OP, so many of us assume the best about the Helpful Grandma, not realizing that there are many other issues at play in the situation. My initial impression was that she was a sweet, loving grandmother who had fun helping the kids with their schoolwork and chores, not that she had any problems with the kids. (I'm still a little confused about that -- is she a good grandmother but a manipulative mother? Or do you feel that she is manipulating or abusing the kids in any way? Because if it's just that you and she have a strained relationship but the kids love her to pieces, my advice to you would be entirely different than if she's upsetting the kids as well.)

Edited October 16, 2012 by Catwoman

[Joanne]

I'm sorry. I just can't get automatically upset at a *visiting* grandmother helping with math and chores.

 

I'd give anything to have my mom so-called "sabbotage" my work that way.;)

 

Seriously - while I am not a fan of the tears, I can't assume pathology or toxicity or problem in this scenario.

 

Helping them with math = helping them with math.

Healing them with chores = helping them with chores.

 

In the absence of other indicators of severe problem, I'd celebrate rather than condemn.

[Bonkers247]

I'm not suggesting that you cut off contact with your mom, but talking to her only because your parents are your kids' only grandparents doesn't mean that you are obligated maintain a relationship with her if she's truly that manipulative.

 

It sounds like you're already limiting the visits, and that you and/or your dh are always present when she sees the kids, so the only other suggestion I have would be to be sure the kids aren't alone with her (if you're concerned about what she will say to them.)

 

The problem with this kind of thread is that there are never enough details in the OP, so many of us assume the best about the Helpful Grandma, not realizing that there are many other issues at play in the situation. My initial impression was that she was a sweet, loving grandmother who had fun helping the kids with their schoolwork and chores, not that she had any problems with the kids. (I'm still a little confused about that -- is she a good grandmother but a manipulative mother? Or do you feel that she is manipulating or abusing the kids in any way? Because if it's just that you and she have a strained relationship but the kids love her to pieces, my advice to you would be entirely different than if she's upsetting the kids as well.)

This past visit confused the kids. "Why is Mimi doing something Mommy said not to?" She has mainly tried manipulating me. This is the first time the kids saw anything negative about her. We have decided that she cannot be alone with them anymore. We also feel like we need to call her on her bad behavior in front of the kids so they see what she is doing is not okay. We are still of the opinion that, for now, it's a good thing for the kids to see her. That may change depending on what she does in the future.

[Bonkers247]

I'm sorry. I just can't get automatically upset at a *visiting* grandmother helping with math and chores.

 

I'd give anything to have my mom so-called "sabbotage" my work that way.;)

 

Seriously - while I am not a fan of the tears, I can't assume pathology or toxicity or problem in this scenario.

 

Helping them with math = helping them with math.

Healing them with chores = helping them with chores.

 

In the absence of other indicators of severe problem, I'd celebrate rather than condemn.

Oh, there are definitely other indicators of severe problems. I wish she were normal, doing normal grandma stuff but it had always been about proving she's in charge and about how I'm doing everything wrong. These were jabs at me and challenges to my parental authority. This was not an attempt to be helpful. I wish it was.

[Incognito]

FWIW, I am not sure if it is the right way to deal with it, but I've called the offender on it in front of the kids and the offender has then admitted it was wrong and lost face a bit in front of the kids (ETA:I've only done this when it has been done IN FRONT OF ME TOO, so it's really blatant and obvious). I think that helps. AND I listen from around corners occassionally and still catch things so I come in and talk very plainly about whatever they were trying to make my kids be sneaky about.

 

I also randomly talk to my kids about how it is never okay to keep secrets from Mom, and if someone is trying to get you to, they are doing something bad. We talk about how lying and sneaking are wrong. AND I know some of the things (like candy treats) that the offending relative tries to sneak with the kids and I make it non-sneaky - I tell the kids beforehand or after that I hope the offender gave them lots and lots of candy and what did they get? Or if it's beforehand - I bet you'll have many sugary sweets! :)

 

I really don't understand why people do this. Who in their right mind tries to get kids to sneak behind their parents' backs? I've even talked plainly about this concept in front of/with the offender as well (and the offender then agrees with me...). Yet the offender also tells stories they think are cute of getting kids to try to sneak candy from said offender behind the parents' backs?!?

Edited October 16, 2012 by Tjej

[SereneHome]

I know your situation all too well, and actually from both sides.

 

When I was a kid, my grandma lived with us, my dad's mom. She and my mom did not see eye-to-eye on some things. So, for example, my grandma would give me chocolate, knowing full well that my mom didn't want me to have any. Things like that.

 

Now, I am dealing with pretty much the same with my IL's. My kids are young, but it's already been happening.

 

So, here it is. Nothing terrible or semi-terrible happened from my grandma doing whatever it is she was doing. I have an awesome relationship with my mom. Now, looking back, I understand, of course that my grandma shouldn't have done the things she did, but oh well.

 

With my IL's I do nothing. My DH and I are both in an agreement that we are going to raise our children the way we want to, NOTHING we can say or do will change IL's behaviour. And my boys are getting pretty good at knowing that just bc something is allowed by their grandparents, won't necessarily fly with my DH and I.

 

I spend a lot of hours and very VERY angry hours being royally ticked off about what my IL's were doing, but I can't control them, so.....I try to let it go. "try" is an operative word here LOL, since I am still not too thrilled. I am work in progress.

 

ETA: And I would not say or do anything disrespectful to my IL's. Kids are smart, sooner or later they will realize whose behaviour is right or wrong.

Edited October 16, 2012 by SereneHome