amy g. Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I do not feel picked on. You and I will probably never agree, but that does not diminish my respect for you. Many lives are filled with heartache. All we get to do is decide how we choose to view it, and what we decide to make out of the ashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I do not feel picked on. You and I will probably never agree, but that does not diminish my respect for you. Many lives are filled with heartache. All we get to do is decide how we choose to view it, and what we decide to make out of the ashes. Yes, I agree with you. I hold no bitterness toward God for any of it. I think our lives on earth are all about what we make over everything and being thankful for what we do have. It rains on the just as well as the unjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Then you believe that everything that happens is God's will? If a tornado tears through town and your neighbor's house is unscathed and your house is blown to bits, that is God's Will? Well....yeah, and NO!!! My baby dying was not God's will, but it is something that happens in a fallen and decaying world. It sucked then....it sucks now. No way around it.....however, God's will in that, I think, was for me to turn to Him....cry my friggin' eyes out, and receive His comfort. It also made me much more vastly compassionate and caring of those going through trials. I have been through many....is it God's will that I have suffered, and I continue to suffer with health issues?? NO, it IS His will, if I can be so bold as to think I know His will, That I become victorious in my struggle and overcome, not necessarily with a healed body, but with a healed spirit. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I always think they view God as a Coke Machine......say the right words and out comes what you want. Dawn You hit on something that causes me concern also. Especially since so many "health and wealth" types pray in very specific ways "telling" God what to do. I also grew up exposed to a lot of "health and wealth" and one of those churches saved my family from imminent destruction, but the thinking that someone can get a better outcome by being on the right team causes other people to stumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Creek Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I grew up in a church that was of the Word of Faith type - the "health and wealth" gospel. I'm sure that background made me a bit hypersensitive about what I'm about to share, but even so, this thinking is very annoying to me. Most Christians I know don't adhere to "health and wealth" and would be quick to point out that the rain falls on the just and the unjust alike. However, it seems to me that a lot of Christians talk out of both sides of their mouths in this respect. One friend "shared" something on FB that said something like, "God knows how it will all turn out and for those who believe in Him, it turns out well." It bugged me enough that a friend "shared" this to begin with, but it bugs me more that ten people chime in with their "I agree!" comments. :banghead: Some may be reading this now and going :001_huh: "So what? It does turn out well. We go to heaven!" But I don't believe that is the implication. The implication is, "Oh, I'm a Christian. I not only pray, I pray hard. (Whatever the heck that means.) Everything will work out just rosy posies for me because, after all, I'm on the right team." Why do Christians often promote this view, even while they say God does not necessarily protect them from harm? P.S. The FB post was not the only thing; there was another similar e-mail attachment recently from an entirely different source that contained the same theme. IOW, it's not just one thing that happened on FB; I see evidence of this thinking often. They haven't met a Christian in an impoverished, third-world country. They haven't witnessed the daily living in conditions that would be below the standards of even the poorest here in the USA. They haven't seen the unquestioning acceptance (and lack of blaming of God) of a life that has no chance of economic improvement - there just isn't enough money in the country's economy to improve the living conditions for even a few of the poor people, much less several million. They haven't seen this same Christian worshiping God in joy, giving thanks to God for the undeserved love that He has shown him...true worship, offered because of WHO God is, not what He has given to them. Simply put, they have never seen an example of faith when there is *no chance* of any material thing being given to them in return. Such is the curse of living in a wealthy country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I think that it helps people turn their lives around if they believe that there is a greater force watching over them, "routing" for them, so to speak. If they believe that by asking for help they will be receiving strength to cope, then sometimes they find the strength within themselves. They might then attribute that to an outside source, but regardless, they found the strength and moved on. I am not trying to say that non-religious people don't find this strength too, it's just that some people find it through a religious route. And that is a good thing. What I find DISGUSTING is when people use religion not to explain good, but to say "HA!" when bad things happend to people. Remember when that tornado struck the Evangelical church in MN where people were meeting to discuss a liberalized policy on homosexuality? Thankfully nobody died, but so many people talked about how "God will not be mocked!" It's like they were cheering. Cheering for other people's misfortune? Like that comic says about stupid people... "here's your sign!" It is that type of translation of religion by petty, small-minded people that causes harm, devision, and alienates people.\ Pretty sure that if you have ever cheered when tragedy fell on someone that simply had a different ideology than you, you are going to have some explaining to do to the powers that be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 They haven't met a Christian in an impoverished, third-world country. They haven't witnessed the daily living in conditions that would be below the standards of even the poorest here in the USA. They haven't seen the unquestioning acceptance (and lack of blaming of God) of a life that has no chance of economic improvement - there just isn't enough money in the country's economy to improve the living conditions for even a few of the poor people, much less several million. They haven't seen this same Christian worshiping God in joy, giving thanks to God for the undeserved love that He has shown him...true worship, offered because of WHO God is, not what He has given to them. Simply put, they have never seen an example of faith when there is *no chance* of any material thing being given to them in return. Such is the curse of living in a wealthy country. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The thing is, our definition of things turning out right may not be God's definition of things turning out right. Exactly. And there's always a bigger picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenC3 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Yep. Crazy. Because if I believed that, then that means God doesn't like a whole lot of good people who believe in him or are totally freaking innocent children. Nope doesn't work that way. Yes HE is sovereign, but he doesn't decide to heal a morally corrupt person and let a loving mother die. Just happens that way, BUT we all get saved in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 To the OP, I agree, the health and wealth gospel bugs me as well. That is one of the benefits I found in the Catholic Church, they give a meaning and a beauty to suffering. On that note, I do find it brings me comfort to believe that God is in charge of all things- the good and the bad. We may think He seems cruel because of what He allows, but we have such a limited view. Like a PP said, certain bad things happen to make us into better people and to give our children a better chance. I don't understand it all. I have been reading about more and more tragedies by the day. They sadden and sicken me. But I have to believe there is a reason behind suffering, the meaninglessness of it is so much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykdsmomy Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Something that has always bugged me is the whole "I'm so blessed because I have xyz". I hear this all.the.time. It almost sounds like they are somehow more in God's favor than someone with less. I grew up Catholic so I don't understand the different terminology for the Christian churches who study the bible but come to different interpretations. I know the non denom church we attend now is more middle of the road as far as biblical interpretation is concerned. They are pretty "PC" for lack of a better term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 You are trying to apply a HUMAN definition of "good" to God who is the very definition of good. If God does it, wills it, says it then it is GOOD. It may not fit OUR definition of good but God is beyond our definition. Again, though: this perspective makes no sense to me, especially in light of people praying for what they believe would be good. I don't get it when a whole school full of children is praying for their classmate who has cancer. The child dies. Is everyone supposed to shrug and say, "Oh, well. I guess God's definition of 'good' in this case was for that young man to suffer through agonizing pain and then die, 14 years old." This is baffling to me. Something that has always bugged me is the whole "I'm so blessed because I have xyz". Yes, that bothers me very particularly. Or its close cousin, the "God let X happen so Y would happen" armchair theology that goes like this, "My car wouldn't start and I was so angry, because it was making me late for work. 30 minutes later, when I was finally on my way, it turns out there was a horrible accident. God let my car fail to start so I would not be in that accident. (Meanwhile, someone was air-lifted to shock trauma. Too bad God didn't make his car fail to start.) :ack2: Well....yeah, and NO!!! My baby dying was not God's will, but it is something that happens in a fallen and decaying world. It sucked then....it sucks now. No way around it.....however, God's will in that, I think, was for me to turn to Him....cry my friggin' eyes out, and receive His comfort. It also made me much more vastly compassionate and caring of those going through trials. I have been through many....is it God's will that I have suffered, and I continue to suffer with health issues?? NO, it IS His will, if I can be so bold as to think I know His will, That I become victorious in my struggle and overcome, not necessarily with a healed body, but with a healed spirit. :grouphug: You are a better woman than I. I wish I could see it like this, but I don't. They haven't met a Christian in an impoverished, third-world country. They haven't witnessed the daily living in conditions that would be below the standards of even the poorest here in the USA. They haven't seen the unquestioning acceptance (and lack of blaming of God) of a life that has no chance of economic improvement - there just isn't enough money in the country's economy to improve the living conditions for even a few of the poor people, much less several million. They haven't seen this same Christian worshiping God in joy, giving thanks to God for the undeserved love that He has shown him...true worship, offered because of WHO God is, not what He has given to them. Simply put, they have never seen an example of faith when there is *no chance* of any material thing being given to them in return. Such is the curse of living in a wealthy country. Nicely stated. I tend to agree, though I have not served in an impoverished country, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Yes, that bothers me very particularly. Or its close cousin, the "God let X happen so Y would happen" armchair theology that goes like this, "My car wouldn't start and I was so angry, because it was making me late for work. 30 minutes later, when I was finally on my way, it turns out there was a horrible accident. God let my car fail to start so I would not be in that accident. (Meanwhile, someone was air-lifted to shock trauma. Too bad God didn't make his car fail to start.) :ack2: Exactly! I cannot stand that either. I just aim to be thankful for what I have and don't try to attribute God's plan or motive to anything. Some people said after my grandmother was killed by carbon monoxide, "This could be God's way of letting her go peacefully before she suffered from a disease." One could likewise say it was God's way of making my uncle live with guilt associated with her death because he was the one who set the generator up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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