Ds's teammates smoking p*t - what to do?

[juelle]

It has emerged through the rumour mill that 4 of ds17's fall baseball teammates were caught by a coach smoking p*t on school grounds after a practice. This is not a school team, but it's all the same kids who play on the school team in the spring. The kid who brought the stuff had already left when the coach got there.

 

It's unclear when this happened or what was done at the time, but the 4 who were caught were suspended for yesterday's 2 games. They had to be in the bleachers, and they were. Dh says they didn't watch the game, and joked around the whole time.

 

We live in a very affluent town, and it seems that parents are very quick to lawyer up if their kids are punished for anything. So the schools, the coaches and people who run any youth activities are extremely careful not to get themselves in legal messes. Which looks to me as if there's no consequence for the kids.

 

I told ds that if he were involved, we wouldn't be waiting for the coaches or the board to do something. He wouldn't be playing, he'd lose his car, his computer and just about all freedom for a while. He knows.

 

But the message is there, just the same. Other teammates were charged with rape two years ago and spent a few weeks in JD before their parents got them out. Everybody knows, but it doesn't seem to matter.

 

Dh and I feel it's time to speak up. What does 'zero tolerance' mean? What are we telling our kids if we say nothing? Do we participate in a program we know to be dirty? Aaaarrrgggggh.

[SailorMom]

Well - I would have been more inclined to 'speak up' about the rape.

P0t is certainly not a good thing - and my kids would basically be grounded forever and lose anything I could think to take away - but it also is up to the parents and coaches how they decide to deal with it. I mean - do you actually KNOW what all is going on at the players' houses?

I know many parents here (not me) that do not think underage drinking or smoking of whatever kind is that big of a deal. Yes - the ids get grounded for a bit - but that's all.

I just tell my kids - I'm not that parent. You have been warned.

[Hockey Mom]

Well - I would have been more inclined to 'speak up' about the rape.

P0t is certainly not a good thing - and my kids would basically be grounded forever and lose anything I could think to take away - but it also is up to the parents and coaches how they decide to deal with it. I mean - do you actually KNOW what all is going on at the players' houses?

I know many parents here (not me) that do not think underage drinking or smoking of whatever kind is that big of a deal. Yes - the ids get grounded for a bit - but that's all.

I just tell my kids - I'm not that parent. You have been warned.

 

:iagree: to the bolded.

 

I'm of the opinion pot should be legal.

 

Regarding your DS, I would just reiterate what the rules in your house are. I wouldn't make a big deal out of it though - he's not the one who was smoking pot.

[elfgivas]

does your ds live and breathe baseball? ie. would the world end if he didn't play?

 

in the meantime, i'd make sure he was home right after practice, or that you "dropped in" occasionally.... and that the socializing with teammates was kept to a minimum.

 

it all sounds not so healthy :(.

 

ann

[SailorMom]

 

I'm of the opinion pot should be legal.

.

 

:iagree:

 

Tax the crud out of it and pay off the national debt :lol:

 

I still wouldn't smoke it. Cigarettes and alcohol are legal, and I sometimes drink wine, but have never had any interest in smoking. I still don't want my kids to do any of it- especially as teens.

[LaxMom]

Uh... Wow. When I was a kid, if you were caught smoking pot by the coach, you would be suspended for the season. At least. And there would be drug testing. And the police would be involved.

 

I don't think pot, as a substance, is any great concern. But using illegal drugs (including alcohol, because of the legal age restrictions) would be a Very Big Deal (as would illegal behavior of any kind). (I am making no assumptions about mental health, here, and addressing the underlying draw to such substances, just speaking to the acts themselves. Just so I'm clear.)

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around suing because your kid is caught holding/using a controlled substance. Mind boggling.

 

I wouldn't consider the organization "dirty" for not being in a position to control the behavior/ethics of players off the field. They can set standards, certainly, and take whatever action they've spelled out for team participation, but it the kids are creeps off the field, I'm not sure there's much that can be done by the organization.

Edited September 16, 2012 by MyCrazyHouse

[RoughCollie]

Any time you have a group of teenagers, some of them will be people who smoke pot. If they get caught, they will simply redouble their efforts to hide it.

 

I don't worry about what other people's kids do. If I were going to say anything, I would say it to my kids.

 

By the time my kids were 17, I trusted their judgment with regard to not drinking alcohol or smoking pot or using other illegal substances. As far as being around kids who do that, it was inevitable that they would be.

 

I think pot should be legalized, but like cigarettes, not for kids under 18.

Edited September 16, 2012 by RoughCollie

[Dobela]

There are very few totally clean programs out there. And even those that have the appearances, may have kids in the background doing what they should not. Since this is not a school team, it may be that the coaches/administrators had not made a great rule about how to handle such instances and could only invoke the light sentence they did because they were unprepared to deal with it. A school team would have had much more presidence and power to discipline the students than just another team lead by parents and a nonschool organization.

 

But yeah, my children would not be on the sidelines laughing. If they had to be there, fine, but not to laugh and ignore teammates. Not to mention the loss of priviledges at home.

 

That being said, the rape should have been a criminal issue and not a coach issue. The time in JD would have been court ordered. The parents would have had to work thru the court system to get them out. Even if they lawyered up, a few weeks in JD is nothing to sneeze at. Have you ever visited a JD? I would never want my kid at the ones here. You don't make it clear if the coaches allowed them to play again after that or not, so I don't know how to hold the coaches responsible for what happened. Kids make bad choices with or without adults behind them. (And rape is a horrible choice). Guilty or not, I would make sure my son had an attorney if he is ever charged with rape.

[Rhonda in TX]

You could advocate that the league follow its Discipline Code. If it did, perhaps it is time to change the Code.

 

I think this is all you can do, really.

[Joanne]

"You" (parents, teachers, coaches, administrators) can't discipline or punish teens "enough" to drive developmental realities out of them. It is developmentally expected that many teens raised in western culture experiment and even "recreationally use" drugs or alcohol.

 

You won't be able to punish or "consequence" them into not trying.

 

These are kids who have had drug education, who have been told (for the most part, excepting bizarre circumstances) that they shouldn't try. They know the rules. They know that there will be consequences. Yet they *still* chose to use (and, given their still developing brains, did so stupidly :lol:).

 

Please don't compare RAPE with pot smoking.

 

I treat kids 5 days a week who land all over the scale of continuum of recreational drug use; you can't extrapolate anything from this group of kids other than they smoked pot that day. I do know that coming down "hard" on pot smoking kids will not stop them, or make them feel/think differently.

 

(Edited to add: I do believe in allowing and not fighting known, institutionalized consequences. I believe that the school officials and team officials should get say.)

Edited September 16, 2012 by Joanne

[bettyandbob]

smoking pot on school grounds.

 

Even if not during a school activity would get you a year long suspension from school where I live. You would be given the opportunity to attend a different county school, possibly small alternative setting, during the suspension. My district has decided to lighten up on the year long suspensions though. I think the kids would be banned from extracurriculars for the year.

 

Several years ago a boy who lives on my street almost didn't graduate because he was in a group of boys from the high school caught by a coach at nonschool party with pot. It was a couple months from graduation. He was permitted to finish only the minimum classes he needed to graduate and could not attend anything at school for the remainder of the year (games, prom, graduation, etc).

 

While I agree to idea of legalizing and taxing marijuana, I don't think it should be legal for teens. I think if I were involved in a nonschool based sports program that served teens, I'd want the program to have a clear policy on drugs, alcohol and tobacco. I think it would be reasonable to suspend the boys involved for the remainder of the season and the next season. However, it's likely that the board members of the league are also the parents of these boys. So, that wouldn't happen.

[Jean in Newcastle]

What exactly do you mean by it being time to speak up? You did speak up to your son. The offenders were caught, and it doesn't sound like you were a witness anyway - to either the rape or the pot smoking, so it's not like you could report having seen them. I suppose you could write a letter to the editor. . . Or you could petition the school board for tougher sanctions. Or you could petition the judge for a tougher sentence in the criminal matter - maybe, I don't know if you can do that as just an interested citizen who happens to disagree with how things are handled within the legal system. . .

[bettyandbob]

Please don't compare RAPE with pot smoking.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

These are completely different things.

 

Rape is a serious crime. The perpetrators should be prosecuted.

 

Recreational drug use among teens, while considered criminal, does not have a victim.

[juelle]

The assault issue was dealt with by the police and the courts. The boys were back at school after the detentions they served. They were not teammates of ds at the time, though they have been before and since, and we certainly did discuss with him the whole affair. Poor kid, he really had nothing much to say, because he knows how awful the crime is. He was 9th grade, the perpetrators were 8th grade at the time. It was a terrible conversation to have.

 

There is no comparison between the two offenses. I realise from reading your responses that the frustration dh and I feel is more about the social messages that are sent by the community. And by speaking up in this case, I suppose I'm thinking more of whether or not the issue is ever addressed during the hours we spend sitting in the stands with these kids' parents.

 

Dh is addressing the matter with the baseball board. The school requires the kids and parents to sign a form specifically pledging there will be no use of illegal substances or alcohol while on the team. Lat year the star senior pitcher was drunk on the bus after a game. No consequence. This team has a statement regarding upholding standards or integrity. Oh well.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

The assault issue was dealt with by the police and the courts. The boys were back at school after the detentions they served. They were not teammates of ds at the time, though they have been before and since, and we certainly did discuss with him the whole affair. Poor kid, he really had nothing much to say, because he knows how awful the crime is. He was 9th grade, the perpetrators were 8th grade at the time. It was a terrible conversation to have.

 

There is no comparison between the two offenses. I realise from reading your responses that the frustration dh and I feel is more about the social messages that are sent by the community. And by speaking up in this case, I suppose I'm thinking more of whether or not the issue is ever addressed during the hours we spend sitting in the stands with these kids' parents.

 

Dh is addressing the matter with the baseball board. The school requires the kids and parents to sign a form specifically pledging there will be no use of illegal substances or alcohol while on the team. Lat year the star senior pitcher was drunk on the bus after a game. No consequence. This team has a statement regarding upholding standards or integrity. Oh well.

 

I think you know what the standards are concerning team members' behavior and the consequences. Not to be snarky, but I don't see much difference in the behavioral standards in college and pro sports either.

[juelle]

I think you know what the standards are concerning team members' behavior and the consequences. Not to be snarky' date=' but I don't see much difference in the behavioral standards in college and pro sports either.[/quote']

 

It's not snarky. It's sadly too true. :glare:

[Jean in Newcastle]

And by speaking up in this case, I suppose I'm thinking more of whether or not the issue is ever addressed during the hours we spend sitting in the stands with these kids' parents.

 

Dh is addressing the matter with the baseball board. The school requires the kids and parents to sign a form specifically pledging there will be no use of illegal substances or alcohol while on the team. Lat year the star senior pitcher was drunk on the bus after a game. No consequence. This team has a statement regarding upholding standards or integrity. Oh well.

 

The baseball board I can see. You signed a pledge, not only to promise behavior but with the understanding that you can expect certain behavioral standards to be upheld.

 

The stands? Are you going to confront the parents or the kids in the stands? I see some ugliness that could arise from that.

[Perry]

nm

Edited September 17, 2012 by Perry
tmi

[katilac]

Only you can decide whether the conduct code of the team is strong enough, and enforced enough, to suit you. You have to decide if there is a culture that permits or promotes negative choices, or if it's simply the fact that any group is going to include some people who wind up trouble, or who are simply jerks.

 

Meanwhile, I want to focus on two words in the original post: rumor mill.

 

Please keep in mind that this exactly what you are dealing with, rumors. It's not true that "everybody knows" that those boys were charged with rape. You, along with everybody else, don't know what happened; you only know what you've heard. If the boys were only held in juvenile detention for a brief time, it's very unlikely that their charges were made public. It certainly doesn't sound like they were convicted of rape - it doesn't even sound like it went to trial. They may never have been charged or even accused of rape. Rumors accepted as fact can haunt lives for years.

 

Back to recognizing negative cultures: it is generally fairly easy to recognize when a team, company, or other group is immersed in a negative culture. It's difficult for people to filter themselves all the time, and they often don't even recognize the need to do so - remarks that shock other people don't even register with them.

 

So, look and listen (to coaches, players, and other parents) at games and practices. Check out Facebook and other web pages. 'Jokes' can be very telling, especially ones that are repeated or follow a theme. Joking can be a deliberate attempt to hide the culture from outsiders (yes, we made a comment about rape, but we were just kidding), or it can mask discomfort and uncertainty (the coaching staff at Penn State told jokes about not bending over when Sandusky was near the showers). If a team identifies with a certain song or movie, that can also tell you a lot.

 

Because of its very nature (providing a sense of identity and belonging), its actually very hard for the people in it to hide negative aspects of a culture. If a certain group has a drug culture, violence culture, rape culture, etc, it is usually easily visible to the careful observor.

[juelle]

Only you can decide whether the conduct code of the team is strong enough, and enforced enough, to suit you. You have to decide if there is a culture that permits or promotes negative choices, or if it's simply the fact that any group is going to include some people who wind up trouble, or who are simply jerks.

 

Yes, exactly.

 

Meanwhile, I want to focus on two words in the original post: rumor mill.

 

Please keep in mind that this exactly what you are dealing with, rumors. It's not true that "everybody knows" that those boys were charged with rape. You, along with everybody else, don't know what happened; you only know what you've heard. If the boys were only held in juvenile detention for a brief time, it's very unlikely that their charges were made public. It certainly doesn't sound like they were convicted of rape - it doesn't even sound like it went to trial. They may never have been charged or even accused of rape. Rumors accepted as fact can haunt lives for years.

 

The facts I conveyed were from my own conversations with the parents of the boys involved and the mother of the victim, and from published reports of the court proceedings.

My reference to the rumour mill is in regard to the present cases. We are asking the coach and the board for the facts they have.

 

Back to recognizing negative cultures: it is generally fairly easy to recognize when a team, company, or other group is immersed in a negative culture. It's difficult for people to filter themselves all the time, and they often don't even recognize the need to do so - remarks that shock other people don't even register with them.

 

The language in the dugout is offensive, but I don't hang out in there, so it's hard to tell if lines are crossed.

 

So, look and listen (to coaches, players, and other parents) at games and practices. Check out Facebook and other web pages. 'Jokes' can be very telling, especially ones that are repeated or follow a theme. Joking can be a deliberate attempt to hide the culture from outsiders (yes, we made a comment about rape, but we were just kidding), or it can mask discomfort and uncertainty (the coaching staff at Penn State told jokes about not bending over when Sandusky was near the showers). If a team identifies with a certain song or movie, that can also tell you a lot.

 

Excellent idea. I'm not sure these kids will friend me, though, and most of them are not on my son's facebook.

 

Because of its very nature (providing a sense of identity and belonging), its actually very hard for the people in it to hide negative aspects of a culture. If a certain group has a drug culture, violence culture, rape culture, etc, it is usually easily visible to the careful observor.

 

Thanks for your thoughts. This has helped me think through my own thoughts, so to speak.:tongue_smilie:

[katilac]

I wouldn't friend them on Facebook. I have found that an appalling number of people have very poor or NO privacy settings on their pages. When you take those people, and then add in the people whose comments and pics you can see via mutual friends making comments, and you can often learn a lot.

 

Also, google names, nicknames, business names. You may come up with some web sites.

[Chris in VA]

 

:iagree:

 

These are completely different things.

 

Rape is a serious crime. The perpetrators should be prosecuted.

 

Recreational drug use among teens, while considered criminal, does not have a victim.

 

Agree with the rape as serious crime.

 

Totally disagree with that drug use does not have a victim.

 

OP, I think all you can do is make sure he is not around those kids socially. Talk with your son about the incident, hear what he has to say and his opinions, offering guidance and reiterating family rules. Parent by relationship vs control as much as you can.

 

He has a choice what to do--limiting his access to kids who use may help him choose more wisely, but it will not totally eliminate his exposure. Equip him to know what is right, what is good, and what is wise, then help him thru it if he chooses wrongly.

 

:grouphug: Parenting is hard--we have much less control than we often want.

[bettyandbob]

Agree with the rape as serious crime.

 

Totally disagree with that drug use does not have a victim.

 

 

I understand the circumstances why you say that. However, if you look up victimless crimes you will see that drug use fits the definition. It refers to an activity that is illegal, but if it were legal would not be otherwise violate anyone's rights. Drug use by an individual does not violate another person's rights. Rape does.

 

I understand the choice to use drugs can result in negative consequences for the person who does so, but that is a different issue.

 

This refers to just the act of using, not trafficking or other acts in the drug trade.

[IsabelC]

I think it's pretty unlikely that anyone would reach the age of 17 without some kind of exposure to illicit drugs. But RAPE?! Yikes! Is there another team your young man could play on? Or another sport, if he's an all-round athlete who's not totally obsessed with baseball? Because I wouldn't want him to be spending time with those boys if I could help it.