Dyslexia and O/G programs...if you can't afford Barton

[MyLittleBears]

I know that all O/G are not created equal. I want to find something that would work as well as Barton but would not break the bank. The benefits of Barton are the fact that it works on everything in a step by step manner, to the point of mastery, making it a true O/G program. I would love to use this but it goes way over budget this year, because of multiple kids needing braces and therapies.:tongue_smilie:

 

What can I use that would still work for my moderately dyslexic 9yr old with auditory and visual processing issues?

 

AAS looks so similar, and I'm not completely convinced that Spalding would do it either, even though it claims success with dyslexics. I already own both these programs. Are there other I should look into or should I try these?

Help!:confused:

Edited August 24, 2012 by MyLittleBears

[LizzyBee]

Wilson Reading

[Lecka]

I don't know what point you are at or learning style, but after my son was able to blend and segment, I was very happy with Abecedarian. It is at abcdrp.com.

 

It might not be what you want at all if you are looking at Barton.

 

For my son -- he needs gentle, gentle repetition. He does not need to do a lot of practice with nonsense words. It takes him a very, very long time to become automatic with a word, so there is never a time when he is reading a single word and not sounding it out. (He can fill in from context clues, a word he would be unable to sound out, however.)

 

My son is mastering knowing all the phonograms and being fluent at a late 1st grade/early 2nd grade level right now. We have not really gotten to multi-syllable words at all yet. (A different scope and sequence from Barton.)

 

Right now we are doing fluency.

 

But, in the future I am looking at continuing with Abecedarian, but also am very open to trying Barton Level 4 or Rewards Intermediate.

 

Highnoon is one where I have looked at samples... it looks similar to Abecedarian to me, but to me looks like it would be more appropriate for a little older child -- I think it is worth looking at also.

 

I really, really like AAS but it moved too fast for my son. However, I used to be on the AAS forum and there was a really good sub-forum for people using AAS to teach reading. I think that is worth looking at if you decide to use AAS.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Lecka

[LaughingCat]

I also think you need to look at where your child is at now and what they struggle with. We didn't find Abecedarian all that useful - DD (7 at time) could do the exercises in B with no issue up to a point and then it became too hard. Abecedarian does a lot of practice with the same words over and over- you can see samples on their sample pages and on their 100 word fluency sheets available here. I still use their sentence sheets for DD occasionally though (they are great for some of the VT exercises that we go back and do now and then). And I may go back and do Level C (which we already have) one day.

 

Instead Dancing Bears Fast Track (and now level C)-really hit DD where she needed it - with lots of practice at sounding out many different words outside of actual "reading" so no context to guess (and I still like that they are almost all real words albeit some more unusual ones).

 

Also I found the High Noon chapter books useful (got a lucky find at a garage sale) - enough that I wish I had started using them a bit earlier - they seem to give her better practice at reading aloud without having any words that are too hard/undecodable. Kind of like the later "I See Sam" books are supposed to be except DD refused to read those :sigh: Before High Noon, I used things like QuickReads (recommended on Abecedarian site) or AR level (trying to find interesting reads at/below her level) - and I think the High Noon chapter books work much better than those.

 

I really think that if we had done Barton, DD would be one of those kids who spent a year or more on each/various levels - because she just takes a long time to memorize and apply (not specific to phonics). However I certainly may be misrepresenting them because I've never actually tried it.

[LaughingCat]

Just wanted to add :

The benefits of Barton are the fact that it works on everything in a step by step manner, to the point of mastery, making it a true O/G program.

I think the whole "to the point of mastery" is exactly why I believe Barton (or AAS) would be a poor fit for DD. Because generally mastery seems to be showing that you can get things 100% right (or very close) all of the time before you can go on to the next level. And I know DD will not be able to do that even after much, much practice. I suppose I just think DD is more of a spiral kind of kid - never actually thought to apply that distinction from all the many math discussions on the K-8 board to reading before though :D

[MyLittleBears]

Thanks for all the input.

 

I guess I should share that he can read but not well. He still will blurt out a word and then go back and repeat it correctly after zeroing in on the vowel. I know he is seeing the "whole word" first. So a word like Stan will be read Stin until he rereads it. Words like said and friend he seems to have memorized and reads them correctly. He also will on occasion reverses b and d and sometimes entire short words. When I dictate to him words are often missing the vowels. It's all so frustrating because I almost don't really know where he should start.:confused:

 

I did speak to someone at Barton a few weeks ago and they suggested that he may need to work on phonemic awareness even if he knows all his letters and many of the phonograms. They recommended starting in level one.

 

We were doing LOE and while it was beneficial and he learned a ton, it was moving too fast for him. His reading and spelling were not really improving very much. For example he knew that er is the er of her, but would still spell it as sistr.

[LaughingCat]

The "notched card" from Dancing Bears (and other places) is good for skipping/guessing parts of words. You can make one pretty easily by just cutting a square out of the corner of an index card or heavy paper. Lots of people use it with nonsense words too & you can just use it with regular reading even. Just slide the card along the words (you have to be looking ahead yourself to know how many letters to slide it to show the next whole phoneme). That should show you pretty quick how much he is struggling with the phonemes themselves.

 

For reversals, there's a new app called LetterReflex (review) if you have an i<device>. Or the book "Developing Ocular Motor and Visual Perceptual Skills" has some pages following a similar idea - pick out all the q's or p's (we did some pages like this in VT).

[Lecka]

I have read that when kids look at the whole word, sometimes they are really guessing from a beginning, or guessing from a beginning and an end. But not reading through from left to right.

 

I see recommended a lot to use a notched card (like a business card with a corner cut out in the shape of a little square). Just reveal one sound at a time (so "th" at the same time, not t then h). They must go left to right then and blend.

 

I think Barton 1 is really good for phonemic awareness. I used it, plus other materials, plus my son went to speech therapy, to work on phonemic awareness.

 

A good book to read is Overcoming Dyslexia. It explains why phonemic awareness is important.

 

If you wanted to try something free -- Abecedarian has a blending and segmenting supplement. Also, Reading Reflex is a book with phonemic awareness that might be enough. But Barton 1 is probably better than they are. The others are just cheaper. (Though I do really like Abecedarian.) I think High Noon starts with phonemic awareness also, if you look at their samples.

 

My son HAD to have letter tiles, to make it multisensory, to drag the tiles. It is what made it click for him. (Not that it clicked quickly, lol.)

 

All About Spelling Level 1 Step 5 has word chains that really helped my son, too, but the same activity, to some extent, is in Barton 1 and the blending and segmenting supplement.

 

At the same time, I have heard that Barton re-sells extremely well, so that makes it more affordable in a long-term way.

 

 

 

When my son reverses words, I just ask him the first sound (by pointing at it) or prompt him with the first sound.

 

edit: I See Sam is where I heard about the notched card, they are big on it too. The 3rsplus.com website has a little pdf about it... but it just says what we have said here, lol.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Lecka

[RPDwifey2819]

We are starting ABeCeDarian this fall :)

[Greta Lea]

Especially if you already own it.

 

I did add repeated readings to our weekly routine, but that's it.

[Seshet]

AAS has worked wonderfully for ET2. We really like the multi-sensory approach, as it helps to cement the concepts. We even added in having him sign/fingerspell the words, since it makes him slow down to think about the sounds/letters. I know some people think AAS is "gimmicky" and have read complaints about the low levels of the words, but that's because it isn't about memorizing the spelling of those specific words. It's about learning the rules of spelling & sounding out words and then applying them. Which, imo, makes it much better than the typical programs that just have them memorize a list of random words. As for being "gimmicky," I assume those people are talking about the tiles & multi-sensory approach, which isn't gimmicky at all. It's because AAS is O/G based. The entire program is based on methods proven to help people with Dyslexia.

 

So, I would recommend AAS, especially for a child with Dyslexia. We spend a week per step (a pace I force since he flew through last year). It still will be 2 levels this year. We stretch it out over the week. Each day, we start with review of 10 each - sound cards, phonogram cards, key cards. We use the cards from previous levels, as well, to ensure the extra review & retention of those concepts. Friday is just review. After the regular review of each day, we also review charts and a stack of word cards.

 

I have no experience with Barton, so can't compare it with AAS. However, I can recommend AAS as something that has worked quite well for my kid.

[Lecka]

I tried AAS and really like it. However, it turned out to be too hard or not the right fit for my son (in a too hard way). We got less than half-way through the first level. However, he learned a lot from that material. We used the tiles and board I got for AAS with everything else we did, and that was very, very good.

 

I still have hopes of going back to it in the future.

 

Ftr we spent about 8 months to do Sets 1-3 of I See Sam. That is a good program too, but was not enough stand-alone for my son (as a lot of people do use them by themselves). But they are good readers I think, but probably not appropriate for a 9-year-old. My impression is that is on the slow side for early progress (he was age 6 at the time). So I don't think the problem was AAS, my son just needed something slower-paced.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Lecka

[SonshineMama]

We have been using Recipe for Reading - it's VERY reasonably priced for an O/G reading program. We have only purchased workbooks ($10/each - 8 total), the manual ($18) and readers ($112 for 39 readers). I DID not do spelling alongside reading. I tried but it got too frustrating for him. Recipe for Reading can be purchased through EPS school specialty or Christian book amongst other vendors. I have been using Christian book because it's cheapest :)

 

However, we are also using AAS. I waited until my son was decoding at about 2nd grade level to start AAS. I wanted to make sure he was REALLY ready for spelling. He's breezing through it. A year ago it would have been painstakingly difficult for him :) Now it's clicking :)

 

All that said, we had to stop Recipe for Reading briefly to address significant auditory issues and we did LiPS through his SLP. We also did Picture Me Reading first for the dolch 220 sight words.

[rbk mama]

Wilson Reading

 

:iagree: This has been working wonderfully for my dyslexic DS. We did AAS, which was great until mid-level 3 where we just got stuck. AAS is great for phonemic awareness and learning to segment. I just don't like that it is primarily for spelling, not reading. I think Barton and Wilson, which address both reading and spelling, are better for dyslexics.

[Shellers]

My DS12 has severe dyslexia. He was in public school up until the beginning of 5th when I pulled him out. In 4th grade he could read nine words, that's it!

 

I finally decided to stop believing the lies his school was feeding me and decided I'd get my boy reading even if it killed me. We started working before and after school, at the beginning with the sounds letters make. It turned out, he didn't know the sounds. You would think his IEP team could have figured this out? It probably took him six months to learn all the sounds and he still forgets sometimes. Learning the sounds letters make helped his reading a ton.

 

When he returned to 5th grade in the fall, he was reassessed and his reading had come up to 1.5. I decided to pull him from school because he had made more progress at home over summer than he had in six years (K twice) of public school.

 

At home I had him using Dancing Bears and Bear Necessities, which is the industrial strength version of Dancing Bears, and his reading took off. Now I have him using Pathway Readers

[Mom-ninja.]

I also used ABeCeDarian. After that I used REWARDS. I also use AAS but not to teach reading. It's more of a re-enforcement of what he's learned.

[VinNY]

After LiPS, we did Recipe for Reading. Over this summer I started REWARDS. Great program!

[FairProspects]

I also used ABeCeDarian. After that I used REWARDS. I also use AAS but not to teach reading. It's more of a re-enforcement of what he's learned.

 

This is basically what we did without the ABeCeDarian. We used Classical Phonics for word patterns and Recipe for Reading, and now have moved into REWARDS and AAS for reenforcement.

Edited August 28, 2012 by FairProspects

[chiguirre]

I also used ABeCeDarian. After that I used REWARDS.

 

These worked for Geezle as well. We're currently doing Apples and Pears and he's reading grade level books on the Kindle and graphic novels (we're working on Beowulf).

[my2boysteacher]

Have you had his vision checked by a developmental optometrist? My oldest also struggled with reading for many years. We tried AAS, and Apples & Pears with no sign of improvement. Come to discover his eyes over-converged. He was never able to form an accurate picture of the letters, because they looked different every time he read. After Vision Therapy, he is doing so much better with his reading. He really enjoys reading now that it isn't such a struggle.

Now spelling is another story....:tongue_smilie:

[SonshineMama]

Oops. . . ignore this

[SonshineMama]

Some of you posted you used recipe for reading and then rewards. If you did recipe for reading first, where did you start in rewards?

 

I just posted asking what to do after recipe for reading in another thread. I was looking at rewards and not sure where to start???

[ElizabethB]

They have samples of Rewards here so you can compare:

 

http://www.soprislearning.com/cs/Satellite/REWARDS_Overview/REWARDS_Sample?cmsid=Sopris

[FairProspects]

Some of you posted you used recipe for reading and then rewards. If you did recipe for reading first, where did you start in rewards?

 

I just posted asking what to do after recipe for reading in another thread. I was looking at rewards and not sure where to start???

 

You start with REWARDS Intermediate. It begins with multi-syllabic words at around a 4th grade reading level.

[Pen]

High Noon.

[Lecka]

Rewards Intermediate is a possibility for us here at some point.

 

I am not sure how far Recipe for Reading goes, or age, that you would go straight to Rewards Int. though (I am not clear on the difference between Rewards and Rewards Int. --- maybe this is different for Rewards, if it is more for younger kids).

 

Here is an impression I have:

 

Rewards Int. is intended for an older child, at least 8 or 9. I think there are developmental reasons that multisyllable words are often recommended for 3rd grade and up, and are normal reading level only in 3rd grade (getting into multisyllable words). I say this b/c the chart in the book Reading Reflex (which I don't have on hand) but it talks about what -syllable words kids should be reading by what grade, and I think it is "most 2-syllable words in 2nd grade, most 3-syllable words in 3rd grade" but it might be that it is a grade later than that.

 

Also there is a reading level estimate thing, where you look in a page of a book, and count the number of multi-syllable words. If there are less than 4 or so, it is 2nd grade. The more multi-syllable words there are, the higher the grade level.

 

I know the reading level for Rewards Int. is a solid 2nd-grade reading level. And, a lot of kids could go straight into it. But I am doubtful my son will until he is 8 or 9. I would like him to be fluent and also spelling a lot better prior to moving forward -- and it is just going to take time for him.

 

Also we have done Abecedarian, and they recommend that you take time off between Level B and Level C to work on fluency-type stuff.

 

However -- my Abecedarian is decoding only, not a full language arts program, and doesn't include spelling and vocabulary development and other things like that.

 

I have an impression like Rewards Int. is a short, very good program, mainly focusing on decoding and not a full program... the purpose is to help with decoding multisyllable words (I think there is some fluency practice also, but I am not sure).

 

So it is really possible that this is a good next step, but it is also possible you could wait a little to start it. And, I think you might also look at Rewards Int. as a supplement and not a main or full language arts program.

 

With that said, it is supposed to be very good! I think I might do it instead of Abecedarian Level C, or I might do them both. But I think it would be okay here if either of those came in 4th grade. Though I might start as early as age 8, if it was too hard, I would hold off another year.

 

But I have read of other posters going straight into Rewards or Rewards Int. with a 7-year-old and doing very well! It is also that Rewards Int. is more famous (aka the one mentioned and recommended in Overcoming Dyslexia) and so maybe Rewards is more appropriate for a younger child. I don't know.

 

Here is the FCRR report -- it has a lot I have forgotten.

 

http://www.fcrr.org/FCRRReports/PDF/Rewards_Intermediate_Secondary92507.pdf

 

edit: glancing back it says the reading passages are appropriate for 4th- 6th grade for Rewards Int. So I do think I would hold off on it until 4th grade, to be honest. But I think I will be working on some of the skills in it in other ways. I am also sure that I could adapt it to 3rd grade and save the reading passages or something like that. But I think at this point, there are 2-syllable words in the near future, and learning about the most common prefixes and suffixes (and my son already knows re and dis very well!).

Edited August 29, 2012 by Lecka

[AimeeM]

I am interested in this as well, but not because we were considering Barton specifically; I was told (by an admin at a school for dyslexics) that if a child has auditory processing problems, O/G in all its "true form" may not be a good fit, because it relies a lot on auditory processing.

[SonshineMama]

Rewards Intermediate is a possibility for us here at some point.

 

I am not sure how far Recipe for Reading goes, or age, that you would go straight to Rewards Int. though (I am not clear on the difference between Rewards and Rewards Int. --- maybe this is different for Rewards, if it is more for younger kids).

 

Here is an impression I have:

 

Rewards Int. is intended for an older child, at least 8 or 9. I think there are developmental reasons that multisyllable words are often recommended for 3rd grade and up, and are normal reading level only in 3rd grade (getting into multisyllable words). I say this b/c the chart in the book Reading Reflex (which I don't have on hand) but it talks about what -syllable words kids should be reading by what grade, and I think it is "most 2-syllable words in 2nd grade, most 3-syllable words in 3rd grade" but it might be that it is a grade later than that.

 

Also there is a reading level estimate thing, where you look in a page of a book, and count the number of multi-syllable words. If there are less than 4 or so, it is 2nd grade. The more multi-syllable words there are, the higher the grade level.

 

I know the reading level for Rewards Int. is a solid 2nd-grade reading level. And, a lot of kids could go straight into it. But I am doubtful my son will until he is 8 or 9. I would like him to be fluent and also spelling a lot better prior to moving forward -- and it is just going to take time for him.

 

Also we have done Abecedarian, and they recommend that you take time off between Level B and Level C to work on fluency-type stuff.

 

However -- my Abecedarian is decoding only, not a full language arts program, and doesn't include spelling and vocabulary development and other things like that.

 

I have an impression like Rewards Int. is a short, very good program, mainly focusing on decoding and not a full program... the purpose is to help with decoding multisyllable words (I think there is some fluency practice also, but I am not sure).

 

So it is really possible that this is a good next step, but it is also possible you could wait a little to start it. And, I think you might also look at Rewards Int. as a supplement and not a main or full language arts program.

 

With that said, it is supposed to be very good! I think I might do it instead of Abecedarian Level C, or I might do them both. But I think it would be okay here if either of those came in 4th grade. Though I might start as early as age 8, if it was too hard, I would hold off another year.

 

But I have read of other posters going straight into Rewards or Rewards Int. with a 7-year-old and doing very well! It is also that Rewards Int. is more famous (aka the one mentioned and recommended in Overcoming Dyslexia) and so maybe Rewards is more appropriate for a younger child. I don't know.

 

Here is the FCRR report -- it has a lot I have forgotten.

 

http://www.fcrr.org/FCRRReports/PDF/Rewards_Intermediate_Secondary92507.pdf

 

edit: glancing back it says the reading passages are appropriate for 4th- 6th grade for Rewards Int. So I do think I would hold off on it until 4th grade, to be honest. But I think I will be working on some of the skills in it in other ways. I am also sure that I could adapt it to 3rd grade and save the reading passages or something like that. But I think at this point, there are 2-syllable words in the near future, and learning about the most common prefixes and suffixes (and my son already knows re and dis very well!).

 

This is GREAT info. Confirms for me that my son is ready - he's 10.5 and I love the idea of reworking mulitsyllable words which is a continued struggle for him!

 

I am interested in this as well, but not because we were considering Barton specifically; I was told (by an admin at a school for dyslexics) that if a child has auditory processing problems, O/G in all its "true form" may not be a good fit, because it relies a lot on auditory processing.

 

I can speak about this. We started Recipe for reading (an O/G program) and I didn't know this but I learned it pretty quickly.

 

I don't know about Barton though. We did LiPS through his SLP and then when I felt he was REALLY moving along well we added back in Recipe for Reading. At a certain point, we dropped LiPS --when I realized that his auditory skills were far enough along and LiPS wasn't working anymore because his visual skills were lacking - it was a juggling act for a while of the two programs as we worked on both his visual and auditory skills. I still have all the LiPS materials that they helped us with so that if I get to the point that his auditory holds him up again, I can return to it. It's looking pretty doubtful that he will need them but I like knowing that they are there if he hits another wall.