What to do with a child who hurts siblings?

[clarkacademy]

I would just like to clarify that this is not mean, spiteful type situations. They really are not a purpose thing. The issue is he has ADHD in the worse way and he won't calm down.

 

He gets rough without meaning too. He does things without thinking and tonight was the straw that broke my back and I lost it on him. Like I said tonight was a long line of events.

 

He is 11 a pretty big 11 might I add. He has always been taller than other children. Him and his brother were cleaning their room at night cleanup time. As usual he was very hyper. This all happened so fast it is like it could not be stopped. He grabbed the toy gladiator sword and went to swing it around and BAM right in my other sons face.

 

His nose is bruised, both lips were busted, blood everywhere I think you get the picture. Did I mention the one he hit has autism? He cannot handle his own blood it totally freaks him out. I lost it completely. I didn't hit him or anything like that but I screamed ALOT.

 

I know he didn't mean it. He was crying when he saw the blood saying he was sorry but this again is a situation in a long line of situations that would not happen if he would calm down. I cannot handle the thought of upping his meds. To me they are upped enough.

 

The other night he jumped out of a chair knocking down my very small 40 lb 8 year old little girl landing on her ankle. It didn't break but the swelling was pretty bad and the bruise is just nasty. He tried to run through the house and stepped on my oldest daughters rabbit. Again he feels bad for these things often cries he is so sorry but the kids and me are getting sick of it.

 

He can't take meds that are stimulants due to the tourettes and those are what work the best. I just don't know what to do. I have talked and talked tonight I screamed. There was so much blood and I know how that makes my other son feel. I don't want to punish him when he doesn't do these things on purpose but he won't calm down so in a way he is causing them to happen.

 

Any thoughts or ideas are welcome.

[ondreeuh]

:grouphug: I am so sorry.

 

I have two with ADHD, and I know that there is so much that is truly out of their ability to control. It is not a discipline issue, I know that too. I think the best you can do is manage situations and focus on teaching him to recognize the hyperactivity/impulsiveness and learn to self-manage it. My son is 11 and he has started to volunteer to exercise on the elliptical or take a shower when he needs to calm down. He is on stimulants though, and I can't imagine life without them. He hates the way he feels without meds and says he feels crazy. It must be so frustrating for them to want to control their behavior and not be able to.

 

What medication does he take? Strattera? I've heard Clonidine can help with ADHD (tho we use it for sleep), and I know my MIL was taking Wellbutrin.

 

I assume you've already looked to see if there are any foods or such that make it worse?

[clarkacademy]

:grouphug: I am so sorry.

 

I have two with ADHD, and I know that there is so much that is truly out of their ability to control. It is not a discipline issue, I know that too. I think the best you can do is manage situations and focus on teaching him to recognize the hyperactivity/impulsiveness and learn to self-manage it. My son is 11 and he has started to volunteer to exercise on the elliptical or take a shower when he needs to calm down. He is on stimulants though, and I can't imagine life without them. He hates the way he feels without meds and says he feels crazy. It must be so frustrating for them to want to control their behavior and not be able to.

 

What medication does he take? Strattera? I've heard Clonidine can help with ADHD (tho we use it for sleep), and I know my MIL was taking Wellbutrin.

 

I assume you've already looked to see if there are any foods or such that make it worse?

 

He takes both of these, that is why I am not really wanting to up any dosage. The only food issue I have noted is on days that he has fast food (maybe once a month) or if he has any type of stuff with the fake sugar in it he will be way more hyper. He doesn't get the fake sugar very often either. Once the muscle tics became very obvious we had to change alot about eating.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Does he need more heavy and/or outdoor time? Can you get him a trampoline?

[clarkacademy]

Does he need more heavy and/or outdoor time? Can you get him a trampoline?

 

I have looked into those and haven't found one in my price range yet. He does get outdoor time though. He is a major nature kid. Always looking for bugs, leaves and making hideouts in the yard.

[merry gardens]

Does he need more heavy and/or outdoor time? Can you get him a trampoline?

:iagree:

 

We have rules about no running in the house and no swinging swords, throwing balls, etc. in the house. When that type of stuff happens more, I notice it often when they haven't had enough outside time.

 

Pre-teen and teenage boys can get rough and they don't always realize their own strength. Set strict guidelines about inside/outside--and make sure they get outside!

[clarkacademy]

Hopefully this doesn't sound terrible, but what about some sort of restraint?

 

My father has a mental illness. He hasn't had any episodes in years, but when he was younger he would have fits of rage, etc. He would be restrained if at the hospital. Now you would think he'd find that to be an awful situation, but he once told me he liked it because he couldn't control himself and it had a calming affect on him.

 

Another thought...Could you maybe get a social worker to come in and help you find strategies for dealing with him?

 

I just envision this getting worse as he gets bigger.

 

So sorry you are going through this. :grouphug:

 

I don't know. These things aren't like a build up type thing. He doesn't do them meanly. If he was angry or something I could see it but they happen out of the clear blue. He don't mean to hurt people. He is very sorry. When he does get very out of control I will grab him and put him next to me. He gets really out of control at birthdays. I think it is the cake.

 

But again he is not angry or anything just I wanna run, I wanna play hyper.

[clarkacademy]

Or, what about a punching bag or something like that? Something where he can channel that frustration/anger without it being on a person.

 

That may be a good idea. I even have a barn I could set that up in. Something he could do just playing around.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I have looked into those and haven't found one in my price range yet. He does get outdoor time though. He is a major nature kid. Always looking for bugs, leaves and making hideouts in the yard.

 

What range is doable? Trampolines can be found pretty cheap.

 

Have you ever cOnsidered an occupational therapy evaluation? OTs can be very skilled with sensory kids. He or she could give you some great activities geared to his needs. Weighted blankets during seatwork, pressure vest, and a ton of deep pressure games (i am assuming, from your post, that he is sensory seeking).

[clarkacademy]

What range is doable? Trampolines can be found pretty cheap.

 

Have you ever cOnsidered an occupational therapy evaluation? OTs can be very skilled with sensory kids. He or she could give you some great activities geared to his needs. Weighted blankets during seatwork, pressure vest, and a ton of deep pressure games (i am assuming, from your post, that he is sensory seeking).

 

He has a ped appt next week I will bring this up. He just never stops it is go go go. They were just cleaning their room and without thinking he grabbed up that sword and swung it around smashing the other one in the face. He really was just playing but like I said these things happen over and over because he don't think and just does things.

[Laurie4b]

I would just like to clarify that this is not mean, spiteful type situations. They really are not a purpose thing. The issue is he has ADHD in the worse way and he won't calm down.

 

He gets rough without meaning too. He does things without thinking and tonight was the straw that broke my back and I lost it on him. Like I said tonight was a long line of events.

 

He is 11 a pretty big 11 might I add. He has always been taller than other children. Him and his brother were cleaning their room at night cleanup time. As usual he was very hyper. This all happened so fast it is like it could not be stopped. He grabbed the toy gladiator sword and went to swing it around and BAM right in my other sons face.

 

His nose is bruised, both lips were busted, blood everywhere I think you get the picture. Did I mention the one he hit has autism? He cannot handle his own blood it totally freaks him out. I lost it completely. I didn't hit him or anything like that but I screamed ALOT.

 

I know he didn't mean it. He was crying when he saw the blood saying he was sorry but this again is a situation in a long line of situations that would not happen if he would calm down. I cannot handle the thought of upping his meds. To me they are upped enough.

 

The other night he jumped out of a chair knocking down my very small 40 lb 8 year old little girl landing on her ankle. It didn't break but the swelling was pretty bad and the bruise is just nasty. He tried to run through the house and stepped on my oldest daughters rabbit. Again he feels bad for these things often cries he is so sorry but the kids and me are getting sick of it.

 

He can't take meds that are stimulants due to the tourettes and those are what work the best. I just don't know what to do. I have talked and talked tonight I screamed. There was so much blood and I know how that makes my other son feel. I don't want to punish him when he doesn't do these things on purpose but he won't calm down so in a way he is causing them to happen.

 

Any thoughts or ideas are welcome.

 

Though it's really burdensome, I think you need to give thought to structure/prevention constantly. For instance, after tonight, the structure would be that they don't clean the room together, but sequentially. You can also make sure before your son is playing with others that he has had lots of proprioceptive input. (Input from joints and muscles to the brain is generally calming to the neurological system.) At your son's age, stuff like push-ups, chopping wood (I have one with ADHD who is trustworthy to chop wood), jumping jacks, planks, etc. are good ways to get proprioceptive input--and to increase physical fitness. Chewing gum (during school work, etc. is also proprioceptive input).

 

Have you gone to OT ever? They teach kids to self-regulate: to identify whether their "engine" is high (hyper), low (lethargic), or medium. Identifying where you are is the first step. The next step is to do something about it. Proprioceptive input is good for either an engine that is too high or too low.

[Parrothead]

What kind of exercise is he getting? The punching bag thing is a good idea. So is running the block several times a day. Chopping wood sounds a bit dangerous for him unless he does it alone. Lots of physical activities and chores may help.

[clarkacademy]

What kind of exercise is he getting? The punching bag thing is a good idea. So is running the block several times a day. Chopping wood sounds a bit dangerous for him unless he does it alone. Lots of physical activities and chores may help.

 

They have on average 3 chores a day each. There are 4 of them so plenty to go around! We live on 26 acres and he is always riding his bike, climbing fences, feeding cows making hideouts all kinds of things. He would not chop wood unless maybe a tree falls. He wouldn't be able to bear the thought of ruining an animals home. He is all about nature and animals. He waits at night for the foxes and the deer to come in the yard. There is this frog that always seem to come on the porch at night he goes out and plays with it. He says it comes to play with him! He is amazed with spiders. Kid can tell you all about bugs and dinosaurs.

Edited August 23, 2012 by clarkacademy
spelling

[Katy]

I don't have experience with multiple neurological issues, so I guess my first suggestion would be talking to an occupational therapist to make sure there's not another undiagnosed condition going on.

 

We have ADHD in my family too (DH has it and I haven't been diagnosed but I fit the criteria so I'd be surprised if ALL of our kids don't get diagnosed with it sooner or later), but I wouldn't dismiss bad behavior such as being so rough that others get hurt as something that shouldn't be punished. Pushing those boundaries to see how far he can go until someone gets hurts isn't really okay. Also, we don't allow roughhousing inside. We're also working really hard on attentiveness (in terms of considering how our actions affect others, after having read an article by Michelle Duggar on how she thinks it's the most important character trait to teach children - I'm not so delusional that I think I can change the way their brains are wired with a few days of character training).

 

Having said that, I wouldn't punish this incident because it's already passed, and because unless you set rules for such things before it wouldn't be fair to him. I would sit down with him individually, and later with the other kids in the room, and tell them that you are going to have some new rules: you must be careful of others, only gentle touches with others, no roughhousing inside, and if anyone gets hurt as a result of not being careful, that will be punished from this point forward.

 

Then I would give them all, but this kid in particular, more exercise. He's got to run off that energy somehow. And you might consider getting rid of artificial dyes, sugar, and limiting screen time to a few hours once a week. There's some anectdotal evidence that those things can help. The GAPS diet might help with multiple neurological issues too.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Katy
edited to make more clear that DH has ADHD

[fairfarmhand]

I have banned toys that can be swung like a sword (not only toy swords, but pool noodles, toy brooms, etc. ) to outdoors. When my kids play indoors with these kinds of toys someone ALWAYS gets hurt. At least outside, they can run and dodge around each other.

 

This boy may need HOURS of exercise per day. Hard, intense sweaty activity. I'd be teaching him to jump rope, run a few miles, use a trampoline, shoot baskets. And I'd also have a routine that included outdoor time every couple hours if needed.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Julie Smith]

I find my Eldest has a much better day he if starts it with a 2 or 3 KM run. This is first thing in the morning, before breakfast.

 

I find he can play and be active during the day, but it doesn't do him good the same way as that morning run.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

OT says trampoline, punching bag, ot eval, and TONS of chores! Have him carry rocks back and forth and design a rock garden or hideout far away from where the rocks are. Can he mow any portion of the yard? With 26 acres, he should have plenty of work to do.

[Juniper]

Though it's really burdensome, I think you need to give thought to structure/prevention constantly. For instance, after tonight, the structure would be that they don't clean the room together, but sequentially. You can also make sure before your son is playing with others that he has had lots of proprioceptive input. (Input from joints and muscles to the brain is generally calming to the neurological system.) At your son's age, stuff like push-ups, chopping wood (I have one with ADHD who is trustworthy to chop wood), jumping jacks, planks, etc. are good ways to get proprioceptive input--and to increase physical fitness. Chewing gum (during school work, etc. is also proprioceptive input).

 

Have you gone to OT ever? They teach kids to self-regulate: to identify whether their "engine" is high (hyper), low (lethargic), or medium. Identifying where you are is the first step. The next step is to do something about it. Proprioceptive input is good for either an engine that is too high or too low.

 

:iagree: I have twins, but only one has the extreme impulsive side, (although the other bit his brother last week. It was a first for him(10) and so I really think he was beyond fed up with his brother entering his personal space.) my stress levels rises whenever I know they are in a room together. So, I send them in one at a time.

 

Mine are on Adderall XR and Intuniv, and that seems to be working. I have noticed that if I do not force my son to have a high protein snack in the late afternoon, he has issues in the late evening. This includes fits, or accidentally hurting someone or breaking something.

 

Please know you have my hugs!!!!!

 

I think the Gladiator sword needs to disappear for awhile.

[Julie Smith]

have noticed that if I do not force my son to have a high protein snack in the late afternoon, he has issues in the late evening.

 

Eldest always has to pick a high protein breakfast.

 

Isn't it strange how all kids are different. Eldest does better with a morning run and a high protein breakfast.

 

Youngest would be fine to never have 'forced' exercise time and eat sugar for breakfast.

[Juniper]

Eldest always has to pick a high protein breakfast.

 

Isn't it strange how all kids are different. Eldest does better with a morning run and a high protein breakfast.

 

Youngest would be fine to never have 'forced' exercise time and eat sugar for breakfast.

 

Yes. I tried feingold and various other diet modifications, but the one that reall sticks is protein. We had a week where he was like a yo-yo in the evenings, his meds were consistent, but one night he was fine and the next he was a mess. Looking back the only thing I could figure was that when he had an afternoon snack the times it was a popsicle, chips, fruit, or muffin...he was a mess. Then a couple days he grabbed a leftover drumstick or fired himself an egg and was fine.

 

I just started to apply this principal to all his meals and it has been wonderful, but wow! I can tell when he is eating carbs.

[LostSurprise]

Though it's really burdensome, I think you need to give thought to structure/prevention constantly. For instance, after tonight, the structure would be that they don't clean the room together, but sequentially. You can also make sure before your son is playing with others that he has had lots of proprioceptive input. (Input from joints and muscles to the brain is generally calming to the neurological system.) At your son's age, stuff like push-ups, chopping wood (I have one with ADHD who is trustworthy to chop wood), jumping jacks, planks, etc. are good ways to get proprioceptive input--and to increase physical fitness. Chewing gum (during school work, etc. is also proprioceptive input).

 

Have you gone to OT ever? They teach kids to self-regulate: to identify whether their "engine" is high (hyper), low (lethargic), or medium. Identifying where you are is the first step. The next step is to do something about it. Proprioceptive input is good for either an engine that is too high or too low.

 

:iagree:

[ondreeuh]

I don't know. These things aren't like a build up type thing. He doesn't do them meanly. If he was angry or something I could see it but they happen out of the clear blue. He don't mean to hurt people. He is very sorry. When he does get very out of control I will grab him and put him next to me. He gets really out of control at birthdays. I think it is the cake.

 

But again he is not angry or anything just I wanna run, I wanna play hyper.

 

This describes my boys as well. It's not intentional!

 

One thing I have noticed is that if I play music (doesn't even have to be calm music), it sort of fills up the airspace and they chill out. It's like their sensory needs are being met through the music and their bodies don't have such a compulsion to flail around. My 4 year old loves Dave Matthews, Simon & Garfunkel, Counting Crows, and Cat Stevens. It's worth trying!

[ondreeuh]

I have banned toys that can be swung like a sword (not only toy swords, but pool noodles, toy brooms, etc. ) to outdoors. When my kids play indoors with these kinds of toys someone ALWAYS gets hurt. At least outside, they can run and dodge around each other.

 

This boy may need HOURS of exercise per day. Hard, intense sweaty activity. I'd be teaching him to jump rope, run a few miles, use a trampoline, shoot baskets. And I'd also have a routine that included outdoor time every couple hours if needed.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Yep - the Lego foam swords and the light sabers have been hidden away here too.

[heart'sjoy]

I can't leave them together in the room for chores, getting dressed in AM, or cleaning up. Sometimes if they have a good story going with blocks of legos they're focused and able to regulate themselves.

 

pp: Though it's really burdensome, I think you need to give thought to structure/prevention constantly. For instance, after tonight, the structure would be that they don't clean the room together, but sequentially

 

Totally agree with exercise. A neighbor gave us a mini trampoline. It stays in my bedroom standing vertical;it's quite an eyesore. But 10 minutes here and there when I hear the pitch and tone ramping up really helps refocus the brain. I also have to use my bedroom as a quiet spot for one of the two boys. I use divide and conquer strategy.

 

I even had to confiscate all the nice sized sticks around outside for awhile since I wanted them to play outside unsupervised some of the time. After a few years of supervised stick use, they can handle themselves for short periods now.

[Lovedtodeath]

I would just like to clarify that this is not mean, spiteful type situations. They really are not a purpose thing. The issue is he has ADHD in the worse way and he won't calm down.

 

He gets rough without meaning too. He does things without thinking and tonight was the straw that broke my back and I lost it on him. Like I said tonight was a long line of events.

 

Did I mention the one he hit has autism?

:grouphug:Similar situation here.

 

The 5 year old picks on the sensitive autistic 10 year old... but the 10 year old will freak out over the smallest things. She is the boy who cried wolf. It leaves me and the 5 year old confused. He never knows what is too far because with her everything is too far. I never know when to taker her seriously... :confused: Both of them have times they are legitimately out of control. It is hard.

 

I am glad for this thread.

[UnsinkableKristen]

Okay, so, those of you that have your sons start their morning with a run - where do you do this?? My ADHD son is only 6, and while morning runs definitely help him, I can't exactly go running with him while I'm watching my other three kids, and he certainly isn't old enough to go buy himself.

 

How do you work this?

[ktgrok]

I think maybe some VERY specific rules could help prevent these things, as he is not able to think through the situation himself. So NO sword play in the house, no swinging AnYTHING in the house. No running in the house. No playing with balls or other sports equipment in the house. Etc. "don't be hyper and wild" isn't specific enough. "Walk slowly when in the house" is more specific and can be enforced.

[Julie Smith]

Okay, so, those of you that have your sons start their morning with a run - where do you do this?? My ADHD son is only 6, and while morning runs definitely help him, I can't exactly go running with him while I'm watching my other three kids, and he certainly isn't old enough to go buy himself.

 

How do you work this?

 

I don't have the problem of younger kids that you have.

 

We have only needed the morning runs on and off over the years. When we started it, it was 2 years ago so my boys were 6 and 4. We just went together.

 

Right now my husband sometimes try to take him out in the morning. Dh is trying to lose weight so goes for his own reason.

 

Perhaps one option for you, is also put the youngest in a stroller.

[UnsinkableKristen]

I don't have the problem of younger kids that you have.

 

We have only needed the morning runs on and off over the years. When we started it, it was 2 years ago so my boys were 6 and 4. We just went together.

 

Right now my husband sometimes try to take him out in the morning. Dh is trying to lose weight so goes for his own reason.

 

Perhaps one option for you, is also put the youngest in a stroller.

 

 

I just wanted to say that I sent DS out this morning to run down to the end of our street and back and it worked wonderfully! I stayed out in the front yard watching him and holding the baby while my DDs played inside. It's a long enough distance that it got a LOT of wiggles out and I can see him the whole way. Perfect!

 

Thanks so much for encouraging me to think outside the box :)

[Julie Smith]

I just wanted to say that I sent DS out this morning to run down to the end of our street and back and it worked wonderfully! I stayed out in the front yard watching him and holding the baby while my DDs played inside. It's a long enough distance that it got a LOT of wiggles out and I can see him the whole way. Perfect!

 

Thanks so much for encouraging me to think outside the box :)

 

In that case I'm very glad I posted.

 

I sometimes feel strange posting on threads such as this since my Eldest is not ADHD or ADD or ??? I just find that the house is much more calm, and so is he if I happen to follow the various recommendations for those things. Mind you if I don't do the right things then nothing major happens, his need for the various cures is just slight.

[Ottakee]

You have gotten lots of great ideas.

 

Are things better with the Strattera? For some kids (like mine) it made some things worse.

 

A med that might be an option would be Risperdal. It is not a first line med for ADHD but does help with impulse and can be helpful for Tourettes.

 

Have you tried any Omega 3s? Those REALLY help my husband. We have used Omega Brites with great success and now use Country Life Omega 3 mood. 2 per day really help.

[UnsinkableKristen]

In that case I'm very glad I posted.

 

I sometimes feel strange posting on threads such as this since my Eldest is not ADHD or ADD or ??? I just find that the house is much more calm, and so is he if I happen to follow the various recommendations for those things. Mind you if I don't do the right things then nothing major happens, his need for the various cures is just slight.

 

 

No worries, I totally get it. I still feel weird calling DS "ADHD" because it's a fairly new diagnosis. Even though he's on medication (that works wonderfully!!) and everything, I feel like I'm being overdramatic by using the label :D.