Rethinking WWE2

[Tracy]

We used WWE1 last year, and it very much lined up with our needs. Dd was 6yo at that point, and she could not do a narration (for fear that she would be wrong). She also had very poor writing stamina, so the copywork was very good for strengthening her hand. She now writes and colors quite a bit compared to a year ago, and she is very comfortable with the narrations.

 

We started WWE2 this week. The summary was hard for her, but I think that this is a reasonable goal to work on for the year.

 

I thought that the dictations would help her with her working memory weakness, but after doing the first one, I am just not sure that this goal is being accomplished. Half of the words in the sentence were at a higher spelling level than she is at (according to my SWR materials), and she just placed a year ahead (3rd grade). Dd7 does not like to ask for help with spelling. She feels like she should be able to spell these words. I showed her my manual where it says that the teacher should spell words for the student. I also showed her that the words she didn't know were all in higher lists. I asked her if she would be okay with asking me to spell the words, and all I got was a reluctant, "Maybe."

 

I am okay with occasionally spelling a word, but I am feeling uncomfortable with a program that creates a situation where half of the words the child writes are unfamiliar. Consequently, she either has to be okay with spelling the word wrong, or she has to stop thinking about the sentence each time she needs to ask how to spell the word.

 

I tend to think that it is not a good practice to encourage a child to be okay with spelling a word wrong just for the sake of strenghening memory. And in our SWR program, we are supposed to not only discourage incorrect spelling but try to stop it before it is written incorrectly (as writing it can cement the wrong spelling in the mind, something I agree with).

 

If she has to stop to ask the spelling of half of the words, this seems to be contrary to the goal of working on keeping things in one's mind long enough to get it on paper. If she then forgets what she is supposed to write, I can't blame it on her memory, but only on the fact that she is not spelling 2-3 years ahead of her age.

 

Now I am really unsure of what to do. I was really on board with the WWE philosophy. And I liked having something that someone else had prepared. I am no stranger to creating my own, but I don't know if I have a really good grasp on what I should be expecting in terms of writing at this age. Any thoughts?

[Spryte]

We've run into the same issue, and I read a few posts here about it.

 

I write the words I suspect DS may have trouble spelling on a white board, or on another piece of paper. I put them out of order, so he still has to hold the sentence in his head, but he can refer to the words he may not be able to spell.

 

If I see that he is making a mistake, I gently stop him and direct him to the proper word on our list. He won't *ask* for the spelling, so this is how we are doing it. I read the idea here, so can't take credit for it. :)

[happyhomemaker]

I'm thinking of just making up sentences that ds can spell or taking ones with easier words from the narration text. Ds7 is also resistant to asking for spelling help. I'm worried that even if I provide a word list, he will forget the rest of the sentence while copying, and the whole point of the exercise will be lost. When we did week 1, I was surprised by what words he remembered how to spell based on the copywork from the previous day. Maybe we'll just hang in there a few more weeks and see if he gets the hang of it or if I need to tweak things a bit.

[Tracy]

I do like the idea of providing a word list. Dd was very excited about it. But I agree that stopping to find a word in a list is counterproductive. I have toyed with the idea of making up sentences using dd's spelling words, but I fear I would not be able to put together sentences that demonstrate the same principles that SWB attempts to teach in WWE.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

I write the words I suspect DS may have trouble spelling on a white board, or on another piece of paper. I put them out of order, so he still has to hold the sentence in his head, but he can refer to the words he may not be able to spell.

 

 

This is what I do for my 3 children doing WWE 2 this year. My kids are 8 & 9 and wouldn't have been ready for this program before now.

[Tracy]

This is what I do for my 3 children doing WWE 2 this year. My kids are 8 & 9 and wouldn't have been ready for this program before now.

 

So maybe the answer is to just wait a year? I hadn't considered that. I think she is definitely ready for the summaries. But I suppose it doesn't mean she has to do them.

[Chelli]

I ran into the same problem with my dd8, and what I decided was that it's just not important enough to me to do the WWE dictation. We do days 1 (narration), 2 (copywork), and 4 (narration/dictation). On day 4, I just have her copy her narration on the other page instead of the dictation.

 

We get our dictation via spelling (Apples and Pears), so I know dd is working on her memory skills but she also has to spell every word. This fulfills our dictation need without the drama.

 

This year (3rd) I am planning on using the hardback book so I can choose selections that I know she can spell.

[nansk]

Before you start dictation, can you pick out the words that you think are beyond her SWR level and write them down on a paper/whiteboard? That way, she can refer to the spelling when she has to write the word. You could even mark them up the SWR way for added reinforcement.

 

ETA: I didn't read the other replies first. I see that others have suggested the same thing.

Edited August 23, 2012 by nansk

[Doodle]

I ran into the same problem with my dd8, and what I decided was that it's just not important enough to me to do the WWE dictation. We do days 1 (narration), 2 (copywork), and 4 (narration/dictation). On day 4, I just have her copy her narration on the other page instead of the dictation.

 

We get our dictation via spelling (Apples and Pears), so I know dd is working on her memory skills but she also has to spell every word. This fulfills our dictation need without the drama.

 

This year (3rd) I am planning on using the hardback book so I can choose selections that I know she can spell.

 

:iagree: We are on week three of school and I am having the same issue with WWE2. I also plan on dropping the dictation portion of the program. Doodle gets dictation as part of his spelling lessons.

[Forget-Me-Not]

We've run into the same issue, and I read a few posts here about it.

 

I write the words I suspect DS may have trouble spelling on a white board, or on another piece of paper. I put them out of order, so he still has to hold the sentence in his head, but he can refer to the words he may not be able to spell.

 

If I see that he is making a mistake, I gently stop him and direct him to the proper word on our list. He won't *ask* for the spelling, so this is how we are doing it. I read the idea here, so can't take credit for it. :)

 

Oh I like this idea!

[kitten18]

OP - You have completely described my DD, the fear of being wrong on the narrations and not wanting help with the spelling. :001_huh: Whew, it's exhausting to have a little perfectionist!

 

I ran into the same problem with my dd8, and what I decided was that it's just not important enough to me to do the WWE dictation. We do days 1 (narration), 2 (copywork), and 4 (narration/dictation). On day 4, I just have her copy her narration on the other page instead of the dictation.

 

We get our dictation via spelling (Apples and Pears), so I know dd is working on her memory skills but she also has to spell every word. This fulfills our dictation need without the drama.

 

This year (3rd) I am planning on using the hardback book so I can choose selections that I know she can spell.

This is great. I guess that's pretty much what I've been doing (skipped dictation today) but I didn't really have a formal plan. We do dictation for spelling every day so I guess I won't stress over it.

[LynnG in Arizona]

OP, I just about could have written your post.

 

Like another poster, I do WWE days 1 and 2 as written. On day 3, we do the second narration. On day 4, my daughter copies one of the naration sentences from day 3.

 

We do dictation via AAS. IMO, this is *much* more developmentally appropriate for her - not just the spelling words themselves, but the syntax, vocabulary, etc.

 

Just to chime in that you are definitely NOT alone!

Edited August 23, 2012 by LynnG in Hawaii

[ByGrace3]

OP, I just about could have written your post.

 

Like another poster, I do WWE days 1 and 2 as written. On day 3, we do the second narration. On day 4, my daughter copies one of the naration sentences from day 3.

 

We do dictation via AAS. IMO, this is *much* more developmentally appropriate for her - not just the spelling words themselves, but the syntax, vocabulary, etc.

 

Just to chime in that you are definitely NOT alone!

 

I have been thinking about this a lot. We do AAS as well, and my dd has no trouble with the dictations and they do seem much more appropriate. I am going to start trying the words on the white board idea next week. We are only finishing week 3 of WWE2 so I plan to give it some time, but I do wonder about what I have heard about the long dictations in WWE 3 and 4. I almost gave up on WWE 2 after the first day, but the work on summarizing is fantastic and dd really needs it and the work on narration/listening comprehension, so we shall stay with it for now. I am willing to drop dictation with WWE if it gets to be any worse though. DD already groans when she hears we are doing WWE. :( She struggles with the questions...

 

What does everyone think of the AAS dictations? Are they sufficient for a second grader?

 

Thanks for this discussion. I have been thinking about this a lot! :)

[Tracy]

To those of you who are relying solely on spelling dictation--

 

What do your spelling dications look like? Are you dictating single words (as in SWR), or are you dictating whole sentences? I like the idea of getting my dictation elsewhere, but I am reluctant to give up the mechanics instruction that comes with WWE dictation.

[ByGrace3]

To those of you who are relying solely on spelling dictation--

 

What do your spelling dications look like? Are you dictating single words (as in SWR), or are you dictating whole sentences? I like the idea of getting my dictation elsewhere, but I am reluctant to give up the mechanics instruction that comes with WWE dictation.

 

Well, I am not relying on spelling dictation as we are still currently doing WWE dictation, but we also do AAS dictation which is words, phrases, and full sentences. I imagine it is enough for this age, but the WWE dictations are significantly longer with more advanced vocabulary, spelling, and syntax. We are going to push through with both for now, but knowing that AAS alone is probably enough if I change my mind. ;)

[Kathryn]

DS had a meltdown over it the first week, but we've continued on and he has absolutely amazed me at how well he's doing with it. He is doing great with recalling the sentence, punctuation, spelling words on his own that I wouldn't have expected, and has learned to ask for help. This is a huge deal for him, being autistic and often preferring to use gestures rather than words and often breaking down and refusing to speak rather than use words when he needs something. He also has very poor working memory, so dictation is something that we won't put to the side. He needs to work on it. His AAS dictation sentences are short and focused on very simple thoughts. I don't consider them very good for expanding his working memory and thought processes. The WWE dictation stretches his mind by using more advanced vocabulary and structure.

 

The way I handle the spelling situation might be different from what others would do because of my son's unique needs. I do not write out the words because I consider the point of the exercise to be for him to recall the words himself, only using prompts when absolutely necessary. I sit right beside him, read it twice, go over anything I think needs discussing, read it twice more and have him repeat. Then he begins writing. If I see him start to spell something wrong, I immediately ask what he's spelling and then give him the correct spelling. If he stops somewhere, I ask what he needs. If it's spelling suggestion, I ask him what word and spell it for him. If he is trying to recall what comes next, I tell him to read what he's written so far and see if that helps him recall what comes next. It almost always does.

 

When we started, I was sure I'd have to out it aside, but I've been very pleasantly surprised.

[Doodle]

To those of you who are relying solely on spelling dictation--

 

What do your spelling dications look like? Are you dictating single words (as in SWR), or are you dictating whole sentences? I like the idea of getting my dictation elsewhere, but I am reluctant to give up the mechanics instruction that comes with WWE dictation.

 

Our spelling dictation is complete sentences. We are using AAS3

[Forgiven]

I'm only in week 2 of WWE2 for my DS7, but he hasn't had a problem yet. Today is week 2 dictation...I'll see how he does. He did better than I expected in week 1, but he did copy the same sentence the day before, so he had seen the words and knew how to write them.

 

My DD9, on the other hand, is doing WWE4 and she will ask for spelling help. Like on the word renaissance. She had trouble writing that one from memory. Can't blame her. It's a tough word.

[Chelli]

To those of you who are relying solely on spelling dictation--

 

What do your spelling dications look like? Are you dictating single words (as in SWR), or are you dictating whole sentences? I like the idea of getting my dictation elsewhere, but I am reluctant to give up the mechanics instruction that comes with WWE dictation.

 

Here were my dd's sentences yesterday from Apples and Pears Book B:

 

1. Please thank your mother for the lovely dinner.

2. There are many goats roaming in the jungle.

3. Who left this meal laying on the table?

4. Now that we are done, we have nothing to talk over.

 

We got a late start on spelling (it took me forever to find something that worked for us!), so these sentences probably seem too simple for most ending 2nd/beginning 3rd graders, but we're catching up. :001_smile:

 

Anyway, my dd has gotten very good and putting commas in sentences and proper end marks based on the sentence from spelling sentences.

[LynnG in Arizona]

To those of you who are relying solely on spelling dictation--

 

What do your spelling dications look like? Are you dictating single words (as in SWR), or are you dictating whole sentences? I like the idea of getting my dictation elsewhere, but I am reluctant to give up the mechanics instruction that comes with WWE dictation.

 

We are doing AAS Level 2, and the dictation exercises are a mix of individual words, short phrases, and full sentences. Here are a sample of sentences from half way through the book (I pulled them from the sample AAS 2 Teacher's Manual posted on their website):

 

 

My billfold got wet in the lake.

The cold pilgrim made a fire.

 

 

Hold the child.

 

Of course, the sentences ramp up in complexity as the series goes on. I am doing this with a 6.5 year old (turns 7 at the end of October), and this level is perfect for her . . . easy enough to be manageable, difficult enough that she has to concentrate to remember the words and be careful with her mechanics.

 

I too agree with the many benefits of dictation . . . but in my opinion, many of the WWE2 dictation sentences are too difficult for that level. I've seen SWB's Youtube video of her giving dictation to her son, and I confess that I just don't get it. What's the point of having to repeat something that many times, and to take that long to get through one sentence?

 

I do see the value of the narrations, absolutely . . . working on sequencing, and memory, and parsing out the most important aspects of a passage, then being able to retell those highlights in one's own words.

 

So I am sticking with WWE2, but just modifying it as I described earlier to eliminate the dictations and rely on AAS2 for those instead.

[justLisa]

We do not do WWE dictations.

 

I am using Aesop's fables this year with DD instead of the WWE2 book.

[Jim]

The instruction for WWE suggest that the parent watch for spelling mistakes as they are being made, stop and correct the child immediately. There is no benefit allowing them to misspell a word so this is an active process.

 

It surprised me that ds was able to decode most of the words himself AND hold the rest of the sentence in his head during a correction then continue writing the dictation. But memory seems to be a strong point for him.