How come when anything good happens people say that God has blessed you, but

[PiCO]

Someone told me a few weeks ago that they believe in a higher power because when she was in a car accident, she survived because of divine intervention.

 

Well, why was she so lucky to survive and get divine intervention when my brother was in a car accident and died. She deserved to be saved and he didn't ?:confused:

 

I really doubt it.

 

 

I hear ya, Jumping. I'm sorry to hear about your brother. It's amazing how many inconsiderate things people say when a loved one dies young. But I think most people mean well.

[3littlekeets]

I think people are simply at a loss for words and trying to be helpful. Sorry for your loss.

[Jugglin'5]

I think its childish to think we can manipulate a God up there with our beliefs in him or our prayers.

 

I don't believe I am manipulating God by making a request, anymore than my child is manipulating me by asking for a peanut butter sandwich. He is my Heavenly Father, who delights to hear my requests, and sometimes says yes and sometimes no, just like I do with my own children.

[SFP]

Ultimately, everything God does He does for His own glory. That is His prerogative - He created it all - He gets to do whatever He wants with it. We are His creatures - He is the Creator. We are to submit to His authority and not demand to be in charge.

 

So basically you're saying God gets to be selfish because he's God? We have free will but we'd better not use it because we're not God?

[Jugglin'5]

So basically you're saying God gets to be selfish because he's God? We have free will but we'd better not use it because we're not God?

 

No more than you are being selfish by asking your children to respect you and your rules while they are in your house, and expecting them not to destroy each other or the furniture.

 

How much more so if you are omnipotent, omniscient, perfect, and completely good.

[King Alfred Academy]

Here's something that has helped my pea-brain when painful things happen that we don't understand. When my kiddos were babies, and I had to hold them while the nurses stuck needles into their chubby little thighs, I would cry. There was no way that I could explain why I was letting strangers stick needles in them. My motives were for their good. And I felt their pain, maybe more than they did. Interestingly, they cried only for the actual pain and were quickly comforted when I held them and nursed them. When they got older, they screamed more before the shots (in anticipation) than when the actual needle went in. What went on in their minds actually added to the pain. It was less when they simply sought comfort in me, and when they didn't worry about what was coming.

 

Like I said, for this pea-brain mama, this is a picture of God and me. God is like the mama. Ain't no way He could explain why xyz happens as it happens to my little self, but I know from his Word that when I am in pain, so is He. (e.g."In asmuch as you have done it to the least of these, you've done it to me") He's not a puppeteer up there manipulating the strings, uncaring about the puppets. If He was, I couldn't trust him, and for many years, I didn't. But because I know that He is with me in my pain, I can trust him. And when I trust him, the pain is only what it is, it isn't all the other things my mind can add to it when I'm not trusting.

 

I needed to hear this. Very well put. Thank you!

[SFP]

Why wouldn't a "completely good" god stop Jephthah from sacrificing his daughter?

[Jugglin'5]

Why wouldn't a "completely good" god stop Jephthah from sacrificing his daughter?

 

I thought you wanted people to be able to exercise their free will?:)

 

 

This is probably becoming too much like a debate and threadjacking, so I'd better put the brakes on now.

[Crissy]

I thought you wanted people to be able to exercise their free will?:)

 

 

This is probably becoming too much like a debate and threadjacking' date=' so I'd better put the brakes on now.[/quote']

 

I think this is less like a debate and more about trying to understand those ideas that seem to be conflicting.

I don't think it is unusual even for a Christian like myself to wonder about such things.

[homeschool2boys]

First let me say I am sorry for your loss. As far as the God question, I think each of us have to make that decision for ourselves.

I hate to be the one to complain but I have to, again, say something. When I saw this quote I found it very offensive.

“The gods are bi-polar. The sooner you realize that, the happier you will be.â€

I do not know why it is considered OK to say things like this about people with a real illness, or how that is socially acceptable, but I find it extremely offensive and in very poor taste. Bi-polar is a real illness that people suffer greatly from, and not something to be tossed around whenever it someone thinks it suits a conversation.

If you took that same sentence and removed the world bipolar and replaced it with any other illness it would be considered wrong. The gods have diabetes. The gods have cancer. How acceptable is that quote when you look at it in that light? Bipolar is an illness, like any other, and to used as trivial as that quote was, is the same thing as making as making light of someone else’s suffering.

Please try to think of the feelings of people who are suffering from a real and disabling illness and think of how you would feel if you were in their shoes.

[PiCO]

No more than you are being selfish by asking your children to respect you and your rules while they are in your house' date=' and expecting them not to destroy each other or the furniture.

 

How much more so if you are omnipotent, omniscient, perfect, and completely good.[/quote']

 

I don't think this a good analogy.

 

As far as I can see, God doesn't discipline only his children who misbehave. Bad things happen to people regardless of their religious beliefs and how "good" a person they are. If I disciplined my children randomly, I don't think that would help them follow my rules.

[summer]

I hear ya, Jumping. I'm sorry to hear about your brother. It's amazing how many inconsiderate things people say when a loved one dies young. But I think most people mean well.

 

Yes..that is like when I got pregnant right away and people would claim I was so blessed, and then I look at people who would be wonderful parents but cannot get pregnant..does that mean I am better than them? Why are bad and abusive parents given children while good parents have empty arms?

[Jugglin'5]

I think this is less like a debate and more about trying to understand those ideas that seem to be conflicting.

I don't think it is unusual even for a Christian like myself to wonder about such things.

 

I agree, but I didn't want to unnecessarily offend the original poster by turning it into a point for point debate with another poster, KWIM?

[Erica in PA]

I don't think this a good analogy.

 

As far as I can see, God doesn't discipline only his children who misbehave. If I disciplined my children randomly, I don't think that would help them follow my rules.

 

I actually think it was a very good analogy. It helps answer the specific question that was asked, which is why does God get to be "selfish," in having His will carried out. In other words, how come God gets to have His way, and I don't? It is similar to the way that parents are the head of the household, they understand more about life and how it works than children, and as such have the right and responsibility to make the rules. It is similar with God-- He created the world, and created all of us, knows the beginning to the end, has the big picture in mind at all times--- so we can submit to His plans. We are like children compared to Him.

 

As far as the other point goes, I think you're mistaken in assuming that bad things that happen are God's "discipline." They aren't punishments for people's misbehavior. You are absolutely right when you say, "Bad things happen to people regardless of their religious beliefs and how "good" a person they are." This shows that God is *not* disciplining for bad behavior, in allowing tragedies to occur. People's sin (both generally and individually) does clearly contribute to many of the tragedies in the world (i.e. the drug user who dies of an overdose, the murderer who kills a family, the drunk driver who crashes and harms himself and others), but those are the natural consequences of living apart from God's standards, in His world. He's given us the rules He has to help prevent pain and suffering. When we reject that, there will be bad consequences to both ourselves and probably innocent others as well. That's different from saying the God is punishing people.

 

Erica

[Kathleen in VA]

Why wouldn't a "completely good" god stop Jephthah from sacrificing his daughter?

 

That is a controversial passage in Scripture open to much debate even among believers. Again, there is much about the Bible and about God that I do not understand. But the Bible is very clear about God's character - It is impossible for God to be selfish. He is good, the notion of which precludes selfishness.

 

Daniel 4:35 says, "And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?"

 

Romans 9:9-24 says "For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? (emphasis added)

 

Both of these passages are taken out of a rich context which I highly recommend you read, but the point is God is altogether righteous, He does no wrong, and He is also allowed to do whatever he chooses and we, His creatures, are completely out of line to shake our fist and question His actions. He can not be selfish - His character is completely unselfish.

 

We do not have to understand it for it to be true. Like I said in a previous post in this thread, I could not worship a God whom I could understand thoroughly. He would not be God then. He would be a figment of my imagination.

 

It is wiser to find out what the truth of God's word is and then work at fitting your experience into that, than to try to fit God into your experiences. God does not change. His word does not change. We are finite and fickle. Ask God to show you His character through His word and then read, read, read the Bible.

 

Jeremiah 29:13 says "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."

 

I understand your confusion. I think your questions are valid and show that you are not leading a shallow existence. I went through a similar quandry when a dear friend of mine died of a brain tumor leaving a young wife and a brand new baby behind. I could not reconcile the notion of a good God with this event. I cried many tears and questioned every believer I could as to how these two notions - God's goodness and my friend's death - could coexist.

 

It was not until a friend read me the verse in Daniel that I began to understand that I would never understand. God is working out His plan and He is doing that in all righteousness, love and justice. My responsibility is to stop shaking my fist at Him, protesting that I would have done it differently if it had been in my power, and to simply submit to His authority, trusting completely in His loving kindness even when it hurts to do so.

[Sharon in SC]

I recognize you don't accept this, but I thought I would offer it as a response to your comment that God is what we Christians want Him to be. God is not always who I would want Him to be were I in charge and that is where my faith comes in. I simply don't always know why He does what He does, but I do believe it is for my good and His glory. Peace to you. :001_smile:

 

Very. well. said. I came on this afternoon to post, basically, what many others have already posted. To try to respond to them all with an "I agree" would, probably, take me most of the day. :) However, as I just read your statement, here, I decided, "That sums it all up very well." "For my good and His glory" - *all* of it, the things He orchestrates in my life *and* the things He allows.

[ereks mom]

to allow us our doubts and still be God?!!? He meets us where we are and He loves us right there. And even when we insult Him and doubt Him, HE IS STILL GOD! And He still loves us in spite of it all. Amazing. Simply amazing.

 

ITA! My son died when he was just 3 weeks old, and while I know that God *could* have healed him, He chose not to. He allowed my Ryan's death, for reasons I couldn't even begin to understand at that time. Now, 4 years later, I'm starting to understand *some* of His plan. Losing a child has brought out such compassion in me toward others who have lost children. Did I get mad at God? You betcha. I can clearly remember one day dh was trying to help me process my feelings and I said some truly terrible things about God and his promises. That was the lowest I have ever been. I finally realized one day though, that if I didn't have God, I didn't have anything. It's been a rocky, rough road, but I'm more in love with God now than I ever have been.

 

God *is* good, but this world is not.

 

OP-I'm truly sorry about your loss.:grouphug:

 

Many blessings to you!

[ereks mom]

to allow us our doubts and still be God?!!? He meets us where we are and He loves us right there. And even when we insult Him and doubt Him, HE IS STILL GOD! And He still loves us in spite of it all. Amazing. Simply amazing.

 

ITA! My son died when he was just 3 weeks old, and while I know that God *could* have healed him, He chose not to. He allowed my Ryan's death, for reasons I couldn't even begin to understand at that time. Now, 4 years later, I'm starting to understand *some* of His plan. Losing a child has brought out such compassion in me toward others who have lost children. Did I get mad at God? You betcha. I can clearly remember one day dh was trying to help me process my feelings and I said some truly terrible things about God and his promises. That was the lowest I have ever been. I finally realized one day though, that if I didn't have God, I didn't have anything. It's been a rocky, rough road, but I'm more in love with God now than I ever have been.

 

God *is* good, but this world is not.

 

OP-I'm truly sorry about your loss.:grouphug:

 

Many blessings to you!

[ereks mom]

Hmmm...Double post. How'd that happen??

[mazakaal]

This may be controversial, and I hope I don't offend anyone, but I honestly believe that when a good thing happens, God is blessing. When a bad thing happens it may be a discipline from God for a bad choice, or it may be something that God has allowed for another reason. Often when we're in a 'good place' we don't feel like we need Him and we don't depend on Him like we should. So sometimes He uses trials to cause us to draw near to Him.

 

He can also use trials to cause us to grow. I've been through 4 miscarriages in the past 3 years. We had had 4 healthy pregnancies and 4 healthy children. Then we decided that we were content with our family size, but would be open to more if God allowed it. In other words we weren't 'trying' to get pregnant, but we weren't avoiding it either. When I got pregnant with my 5th child, then lost the baby, I wondered why God allowed it at all. I wasn't trying to get pregnant. I would have been totally satisfied if I'd never gotten pregnant again. Why did He allow me to get pregnant, only to take the child. Then it happened 3 more times after that. It has been very difficult. I know God is in control and I trust Him completely with my life, but I've still struggled.

 

Then, this morning in church, the worship band played one of my favorite songs which really ministered to me several years ago when I was going through another tough time (prior to all the miscarriages). The song talks about praising God in every situation, good and bad, and it used to really challenge me to praise Him even through the trial that I was going through. This morning when I heard it, it really challenged me again in relation to the miscarriages. And I thought about how God had really used the miscarriages in my life to make me more compassionate toward others who suffer.

 

In the past I've heard people say that they were really thankful for a particular trial because of how God had used it in their life. I used to wonder if I would ever feel that way about the miscarriages. Then, this morning, I really felt truly grateful that God had allowed them to happen for the way that He used them to change my heart and draw me close to Him. That probably sounds crazy. I know that I could never fully understand it when others said it to me.

 

I understand that today you are really hurting, and that's okay. But don't allow this loss to make you bitter at God. Draw close to Him and He will draw close to you. I'll be praying for you, for God to bring healing to your heart.

 

Blessings,

Megan

[Mom to Aly]

I agree, people do thank God for everything good, and many say the devil got them when it is something bad. I don't believe in the devil or hell, don't believe in a God that would allow that. I do believe in free will and us making our own mistakes.

 

I posted my "big secret" recently, well, big secret because my daughter doesn't know it and I don't speak of it often, because it is so painful, but my first daughter died after birth. That is the event that, instead of making me question God, made everything very clear to me. Made me realize, there is a reason for everything, and we just can't, and won't understand it during our lifetime. Why he chose to take a child I loved and wanted so much, something I will not understand in this lifetime. I hope I will understand it afterwards.

 

I do believe we have our own free will. I do believe we make our own mistakes, and can create our own outcomes, but I also believe God can change those, if he wishes, some of those "miracles" everyone talks about. Why he choses to or not, something we won't understand.

 

Our point of view of what he does is just that, our point of view.

[Phred]

As far as I can see, God doesn't discipline only his children who misbehave.

 

It is similar with God-- He created the world, and created all of us, knows the beginning to the end, has the big picture in mind at all times--- so we can submit to His plans. We are like children compared to Him.

 

God is working out His plan and He is doing that in all righteousness, love and justice. .

 

He meets us where we are and He loves us right there. And even when we insult Him and doubt Him, HE IS STILL GOD! And He still loves us in spite of it all. Amazing. Simply amazing.

 

I just thought I'd point out that, while my statements were being discussed as being "just my opinion" and how I never take the time to state that they are "just my opinion" I just grabbed four random statements that are just someone's opinion that nobody said a word about... except, you know, they happen to be in favor of the existence of a deity.

[PiCO]

I just thought I'd point out that, while my statements were being discussed as being "just my opinion" and how I never take the time to state that they are "just my opinion" I just grabbed four random statements that are just someone's opinion that nobody said a word about... except, you know, they happen to be in favor of the existence of a deity.

 

Except I was arguing against the existence of a deity, but otherwise I agree with you.

[Kathleen in VA]

I just thought I'd point out that, while my statements were being discussed as being "just my opinion" and how I never take the time to state that they are "just my opinion" I just grabbed four random statements that are just someone's opinion that nobody said a word about... except, you know, they happen to be in favor of the existence of a deity.

 

It is my opinion that no one needs to state that what they are writing is just their opinion.;)

[LMA]

I am Traditional Catholic. I don't have a lot of time to post so I will just say that God does bless you in your suffering. Many of the great saints of the Church suffered a lot and God was blessing them. For a very simple example, my dear friend was suffering a lot, physically and mentally, when she was ill with pancreatic cancer. She was worried about her family and what would happen to them. She was very sick from the cancer. But she kept saying that she was offering her sufferings up to the Lord for the souls in purgatory and she was praying hard for a happy death and for the Lord to take her to heaven when she died. When she died, we all cried, but her husband said that he hoped all her suffering helped her go to heaven. This is a point of view that is not of this world as suffering is seen as something that helps one attain heaven. You can send me a private message if you wish to discuss it further.

 

 

Here is an article about St. Therese and suffering.

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3885/is_200001/ai_n8880936

[Laurie4b]

While I agree with a lot of what is said here, I think the Bible shows that it is not only all right to question God, but that He is apparently pleased to enter in to that questioning. As per Daniel, no one can walk in and say, "What on earth are you doing? and "stay his hand" by the questioning, but I think we are actually encouraged to ask him those hard questions, like you did with regard to your friend. In response to your questioning, He actually showed up and answered you in a way that satisfied your heart. You could then lean against him and trust in the future. However, I think that our hearts aren't often satisfied until we've wrestled with him through the questioning process.

 

A few examples from Scripture:

 

the main points of book of Habbakkuk go like this: (Please pardon my paraphrasing here.)

 

Habakkuk to God: Why aren't you listening to me? How can you stand to watch all the violence and injustice and not do anything?

God: I am planning to do something. I'm sending the Babylonians to wipe the whole wretched system out.

H: What? They're worse than the bad guys here are! How does that fit with a God of justice? I'm going to stand here and wait to see how He answers those questions!

God: When the day of judgment comes, all is going to be dealt with perfectly fairly. It's not all going to look fair in the immediate time. "The righteous will live by faith, " (and here I take it as faith that God will do what is fair and right, but we have to wait for the end of the story to see how it all plays out.)

Habbakkuk then launches into one of the most beautiful passages of trust in the Bible:

Though the fig tree does not bud

and there are no grapes on the vines,

though the olive crop fails

and the fields produce no food,

though there are no sheep in the pen

and no cattle in the stalls,

 

18 yet I will rejoice in the LORD,

I will be joyful in God my Savior.

 

19 The Sovereign LORD is my strength;

he makes my feet like the feet of a deer,

he enables me to go on the heights.

 

He gets there through honest questioning.

 

Another example is the book of Job. Job is outright questioning why God has done what he has done.

"I would present my case before Him

And fill my mouth with arguments.

5"I would learn the words which He would answer,

And perceive what He would say to me.

 

Job's friends tell him he shouldn't be questioning God so vehemently; For instance:

Are the consolations of God too small for you,

Even the word spoken gently with you?

12"Why does your heart carry you away?

And why do your eyes flash,

13That you should turn your spirit against God

And allow such words to go out of your mouth

 

God does reprove JOb

 

1Then the LORD said to Job,

2"Will the faultfinder contend with the Almighty?

Let him who reproves God answer it."

 

But then there's the epilogue!

7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." Look who's in bigger trouble: the guys who said, "Don't question! Show some respect."

 

Many of the Psalms contain questions for God.

 

But the really big one was from Jesus himself, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

 

I think in the passage that you quoted in Romans, that Paul is using the " Who are you to question God?" as a rhetorical device. Because he is God and we are not, it would be perfectly appropriate to conclude that people should keep to their place as creatures and not question the creator.

 

But because God pursues our love with his own extravagant love, He doesn't demand that we "keep in our place" as mere creatures. We are not, in fact, pots, but image-bearers. He enters into the messy intimacy of "wrestling" through the our qeustions because we are his children, his bride, his beloved. He wants our hearts, and it's so often on the other side of the wrestling where the trust comes. I was talking with our pastor the other day and he and his wife had been listening to the 4 Love Languages tape. He said that it dawned on him that God's love language, what he longs for from his children, is trust.

 

I think that one can make a good argument that the questioning that paradoxically arises from trust/faith is acceptable to God. I say paradoxically, because it is clear that both Habbakkuk and Job expected him to answer. They believed He was just but couldn't square that belief with what they were seeing with their own eyes. God entered into the questioning and they emerged in a much more intimate place in their relationships with God.

[love2read]

I didn't read any of the replies, so someone else may have posted these same thoughts already. Everything passes through the hand of God and is a blessing. People don't see tragedy as a blessing because they can only see the immediate negative effects and not some worse tragedy that they may have been spared or the positive even redeeming effects that their suffering can have.

[Peela]

It is my opinion that no one needs to state that what they are writing is just their opinion.;)

 

:iagree: It's silly Phred feels the need to defend himself for his opinion, which the OP asked for- this is a public board- and she didn't ask for Christian points of view only, so she didn't get them (many of us have felt as the OP feels and many of us have gone in different directions with it). Phred was attacked for expressing what was obviously his opinion, as is everything everyone writes here. I think he was attacked because of the content of his opinion, rather than the fact he didn't qualify it with "this is my opinion". Isn't that ad hominim or something?

You can't argue with an opinion, but if you attack the one who expresses the opinion that touches/disturbs something in you, you just expose your own unwillingness to stay clean and honest in the debate.

Phred, opinionate on.

[Kari C in SC]

I didn't read any of the replies, so someone else may have posted these same thoughts already. Everything comes from the hand of God and is a blessing. People don't see tragedy as a blessing because they can only see the immediate negative effects and not some worse tragedy that they may have been spared or the positive even redeeming effects that their suffering can have.

 

I agree with you. When my sil was murdered a few years ago, I was just plain angry with God. This was a good Christian mother that was killed by a child she adopted and loved. I couldn't understand how God could allow this to happen. If He could take such a "good" person, how could He be a good and loving God. I wasn't looking for the redeeming effects. It has been nearly 5 years and I still get angry with God on some days. I also realize that the day after she died an angel was sent to me by her or her request. These angels appeared in a Burger King parking lot of all places. They handed me a card that basically tells you theire is only one way to get to heaven through Jesus Christ. It was early the morning after we had found out she had been killed. My dh insisted we "get out" and we went to Burger King. I was so numb, I couldn't speak. These gentle angels didn't speak much either, they just handed me this card. I just cried and thought only Debi would send me the message that she was indeed with her Father in heaven. From that moment on, I started learning and believing more. I had always been raised "Christian", but I never really thought much of it. It was just a belief that wasn't worked on. I am still so far from really understanding all there is to know, but I know without a doubt that God is real. The other thing that happened from such an awful tragedy was my beautiful ds was born. My dh was convinced we were done having kids. After Debi died, he came to me and told me he thought we should have another child. Honestly, he thought I was going to crawl into a hole and never come out. He says that he just knew we were supposed to go on and love our family. So, from a horrific tragedy, I have seen and lived to see amazing things. Faith is just that - faith. We don't always understand, we just believe.

[Erica in PA]

I agree with you. When my sil was murdered a few years ago, I was just plain angry with God. This was a good Christian mother that was killed by a child she adopted and loved. I couldn't understand how God could allow this to happen. If He could take such a "good" person, how could He be a good and loving God. I was looking for the redeeming effects. It has been nearly 5 years and I still get angry with God on some days. I also realize that the day after she died an angel was sent to me by her or her request. These angels appeared in a Burger King parking lot of all places. They handed me a card that basically tells you their is only one way to get to heaven through Jesus Christ. It was early the morning after we had found out she had been killed. My dh insisted we "get out" and we went to Burger King. I was so numb, I couldn't speak. These gentle angels didn't speak much either, they just handed me this card. I just cried and though only Debi would send me the message that she was indeed with her Father in heaven. From that moment on, I started learning and believing more. I had always been raised "Christian", but I never really thought much of it. It was just a belief that wasn't worked on. I am still so far from really understanding all there is to know, but I know without a doubt that God is real. The other thing that happened from such an awful tragedy was my beautiful ds was born. My dh was convinced we were done having kids. After Debi died, he came to me and told me he thought we should have another child. Honestly, he thought I was going to crawl into a hole and never come out. He says that he just knew we were supposed to go on and love our family. So, from a horrific tragedy, I have seen and lived to see amazing things. Faith is just that - faith. We don't always understand, we just believe.

 

I have another example of how God has used a painful experience to bring about something beautiful... I lost a much wanted, already loved baby at 14 weeks. It was a painful, drawn out process. Dh and I were both extremely devastated by this loss. It was just a week before Christmas. Our faith was in the Lord, and we still trusted Him and knew this was part of his plan, but we did pray that someday, He might let us know some good that came from our loss. Just a few weeks later, my fil who is a pastor, tearfully told his congregation what had happened to our baby, and moved from that topic onto the infant Jesus, and how even from that time God knew that someday He was going to die too, and yet He chose to endure that loss for us.

 

Anyway, a young couple came up to him afterward, and told him that they had both trusted in Christ for the first time that morning, partly as a result of hearing our story. They went on to heal their marriage, which had been very troubled, turned their lives around, and lived for the Lord from then on. Two more souls will be in heaven someday, the Lord used us and our baby to bring that miracle about, and He received glory and praise from all of us because of it. I was so grateful that He gave us that little glimpse into His plan. It didn't take all of the hurt away, and I still cry sometimes thinking about that baby, but the situation gave me more assurance than ever that God loves me, loves our baby, and is working all things together for good.

 

Erica

[Deeke]

Tragic accidents are just that... tragic. No great being allows them to happen, no great being could have prevented them. Humans created the great father figures to give us comfort, to answer questions we could not. But as we learn more and more the things we need gods to answer become smaller and smaller. And the false prophets of the world, the fake healers and the false preachers grow more and more false.

 

There is no god and the Bible is just a book written a long, long time ago. It means what one wants it to mean. Which is why the God of the Bible only does good and not bad. He is what believers want him to be.

 

I too am sorry for Karen's loss, but have to say my opinion is pretty much the same as Phreds. Things happen, that's it...whether we have control over them or not, they happen. We live through them, good or bad, and hopefully become the better for it.

[Karen sn]

I agree' date=' but I didn't want to unnecessarily offend the original poster by turning it into a point for point debate with another poster, KWIM?[/quote']

 

Honey, you would have to do a whole lot of really bad stuff to offend me.

Stating your opinion (whether we agreed or not) is never offensive.

All different points of view welcome here.