Mommie_Jen Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I am totally grasping at straws here, but wonder if anyone may have ideas that none of us have used. We have some dear church friends that have a 14 yr old DD. She is mentally impaired, although not profoundly - functions at about an 8 yr old level. She is also schizophrenic and violent. Extremely violent. She is expelled from school for threatening/trying violence there. As in threatening/planning to kill people. She promises to kill her parents. She has tried. She is in and out of behavioral health places, but none will keep her long term. She is on a waiting list to get into a state hospital, but they are having issues with accepting her even if a spot does open up because of her low IQ. She is an only child. She is not safe around other people. Her parents are not safe in their own house. Behavioral health hospital will keep her only for a few days, maybe a week, at a time. Then they dismiss her to parents that she plots to kill. They don't want to pick her up, but they either pick her up or get charged with child abandonment and arrested. She just came home yesterday from another stint at the behavior health hosp. (after waking in the night and sneaking downstairs to try to kill her dad. They call the police, police take her to the hosp. She gets dismissed. Lather, rinse, repeat.) Tonight, her dad went to the ER from our house. He has health issues that are made much worse by the DD episodes. We found him in his car, breathing, but unresponsive. Didn't know where he was. Weak and headache. This happens EVERY time she comes home. It's his body's fight or flight reaction. Physically, it is killing him slowly. He will stroke out one of these days. They are stuck in limbo. Hosp. won't/can't keep her (because MCaid refuses to pay for more than so many days, even with letters from Dr's). Waitlisted at state mental hospital. Screwed every way they look. They don't have financial resources. They are just trying to stay alive. Literally. Legally, they are screwed. Is there anything...anything to be done? Can you pray with us? This is so very hard for their marriage, for them, for all of us to watch. And apparently her behavior will escalate as she goes through adolescence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I will pray for this family. I have no experience in this area, so the only thing I could suggest would be an elimination diet. Doris Rapp's book "Is This Your Child?" talks about children who become violent because of severe food reactions. She may not be one of these kids, but it's probably worth a try, even if it only helps somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) :grouphug::grouphug:huge prayers for everyone involved in her care:grouphug::grouphug: Can the parents voluntarily surrender her to the state, permanently? If they did that, do they have any idea what would happen to her? ETA: I wonder if they could hire an attorney to walk them through CPS charges if they do 'abandon' her. If they do it safely and humanely, to authorities, I would be curious what the legal charges would be. Edited July 25, 2012 by Tap, tap, tap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelbe5 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I only have one thing to offer; the most difficult thing in the world. The next time she is hauled off to the hospital, they should consider refusing to pick her up and bring her home. She will have to be placed at that time. If she is trying to kill her own parents there are very few options here. She needs to be held in a secure placement and hopefully treated. I am so very sorry . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 :grouphug::grouphug:huge prayers for everyone involved in her care:grouphug::grouphug: Can the parents voluntarily surrender her to the state, permanently? If they did that, do they have any idea what would happen to her? Quite a few states now can still file charges against the parents for doing that now. It is a sad state for mental health. There are so few inpatient resources for the mental disabled especially for children or ones with low IQs. Do her parents get any type of respite care? :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateLeft Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'd suggest contacting the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) and see if they can point you to resources in your area. There may be a local chapter in your area that can provide more support to this family. You could also get in touch with the Jani Foundation, which specifically deals with mental health education and legal issues. "It is a place to go when you need help dealing with the system's treatment of you and your mentally ill/autistic spectrum child." They may be able to point this family to additional resources in their area. It was founded by Michael Schofield, whose young daughter is a violent schizophrenic who has been repeatedly hospitalized. As the parent of a child who struggles with mental illness, I really appreciate your efforts to support this family, and will keep you and them in my prayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelbe5 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Charges may be filed but the parents need to counter with "we feel she is a danger to herself and others" and not deviate from saying that. Unfortunately, those are the words that get results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommie_Jen Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 I only have one thing to offer; the most difficult thing in the world. The next time she is hauled off to the hospital, they should consider refusing to pick her up and bring her home. She will have to be placed at that time. If she is trying to kill her own parents there are very few options here. She needs to be held in a secure placement and hopefully treated. I am so very sorry . . . Thank you. We have talked about this, but the child abandonment charges that they've threatened...however, :grouphug::grouphug:huge prayers for everyone involved in her care:grouphug::grouphug: Can the parents voluntarily surrender her to the state, permanently? If they did that, do they have any idea what would happen to her? ETA: I wonder if they could hire an attorney to walk them through CPS charges if they do 'abandon' her. If they do it safely and humanely, to authorities, I would be curious what the legal charges would be. getting legal help with CPS is perhaps something to explore/suggest. I will pray for this family. I have no experience in this area, so the only thing I could suggest would be an elimination diet. Doris Rapp's book "Is This Your Child?" talks about children who become violent because of severe food reactions. She may not be one of these kids, but it's probably worth a try, even if it only helps somewhat. Thank you. I don't know much about her diet at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelbe5 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Are the parents willing to press charges and have her placed in juvinal detention? If they have not done this yet they should ramp up and do this. Can they get an advocate to help them fight for a residential placement through the school system? Advocates are usually free. A lawyer would be the next thing. If her school placements can't handle her she is not receiving the free and appropriate education the law says she is to receive. The next step may be to place her in a restrictive environment which the school district may pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Wow. No advice but saying a prayer! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I assume this varies with states. In our state you need to get signed up with DD before age of 18 or becomes quite a mess. I think she needs to call up the state level and see what the options are. Sometimes an arrest can get people into the system. They might need a lawyer familiar with state laws to advise them which way to go. Some states are so bad, kids are sent to relatives in a better state. One family I know found out that once the kid was in with other people, she was better behaved. In that case, I thought it was because her mother was a screamer and shouter and the family she went to wasn't, but who knows. Does she not take her meds? Does she have a psychiatrist? If she refuses meds, can she be put on the periodic shot? Is she on a mood stabilizer or just an anti-psychotic? Is she really diagnosed with low IQ or just LD? Do the authorities see this more as a "behavioral" issue or really a psychotic disorder? I'm sorry, but dad having such a histrionic response to it would make me think twice about a behavioral disorder. If you are going on only the parent's word, you might be getting very unreliable info, and the situation might be much more dark and twisted than you know. One of the reasons "mental health" is so expensive is that is it complex, time-intensive, and individualized. No assembly line, man-made uppers shoes here, but only hand-made, organically tanned leather, by craftsmen with advanced degrees in shoe-ology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 She is on a waiting list to get into a state hospital, but they are having issues with accepting her even if a spot does open up because of her low IQ. BTW, our state was very successfully sued to provide MORE, not less, care to DD patients with mental illness. If she is being discriminated against because of her IQ, perhaps they could try suing the state. The case was mostly about changing the law rather than getting a big cash settlement. There was some, but the brunt of the effect was a change in funding for the care of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 BTW, our state was very successfully sued to provide MORE, not less, care to DD patients with mental illness. If she is being discriminated against because of her IQ, perhaps they could try suing the state. The case was mostly about changing the law rather than getting a big cash settlement. There was some, but the brunt of the effect was a change in funding for the care of. i was hoping you'd drop in to this thread :001_smile:. ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommie_Jen Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 i was hoping you'd drop in to this thread :001_smile:.ann Me too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommie_Jen Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 I assume this varies with states. In our state you need to get signed up with DD before age of 18 or becomes quite a mess. I think she needs to call up the state level and see what the options are. Sometimes an arrest can get people into the system. They might need a lawyer familiar with state laws to advise them which way to go. Some states are so bad, kids are sent to relatives in a better state. One family I know found out that once the kid was in with other people, she was better behaved. In that case, I thought it was because her mother was a screamer and shouter and the family she went to wasn't, but who knows. Does she not take her meds? Does she have a psychiatrist? If she refuses meds, can she be put on the periodic shot? Is she on a mood stabilizer or just an anti-psychotic? Is she really diagnosed with low IQ or just LD? Do the authorities see this more as a "behavioral" issue or really a psychotic disorder? I'm sorry, but dad having such a histrionic response to it would make me think twice about a behavioral disorder. If you are going on only the parent's word, you might be getting very unreliable info, and the situation might be much more dark and twisted than you know. One of the reasons "mental health" is so expensive is that is it complex, time-intensive, and individualized. No assembly line, man-made uppers shoes here, but only hand-made, organically tanned leather, by craftsmen with advanced degrees in shoe-ology. :iagree:Wonderful analogy! I don't think I know the answers to all your questions, but I'll try my best. She does take her meds (well, as far as I know. They haven't said she has a problem with them. I do think that puberty this year and having to mess with dosages/meds is maybe part of the problem.) She really is low IQ and she has a medical diagnosis of schizophrenia. Um, I'm trying to google histrionic and find out what it means exactly....can you give me the plain English version, please? Interesting thoughts about suing the state because of them not wanting in the state hosp. because of low IQ. The school system is *supposed* to be working with them to help get her in somewhere...this is a small district with not a lot of experience in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommie_Jen Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'd suggest contacting the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) and see if they can point you to resources in your area. There may be a local chapter in your area that can provide more support to this family. You could also get in touch with the Jani Foundation, which specifically deals with mental health education and legal issues. "It is a place to go when you need help dealing with the system's treatment of you and your mentally ill/autistic spectrum child." They may be able to point this family to additional resources in their area. It was founded by Michael Schofield, whose young daughter is a violent schizophrenic who has been repeatedly hospitalized. As the parent of a child who struggles with mental illness, I really appreciate your efforts to support this family, and will keep you and them in my prayers. Thank you for these links. I will read into them and pass them along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 She really is low IQ and she has a medical diagnosis of schizophrenia. Um, I'm trying to google histrionic and find out what it means exactly....can you give me the plain English version, please? Your description of his response to her coming home is, well, dramatic. Some people who are not good at getting their needs met lapse into rage and violence, and some become piteous and needy, or even cut and stab themselves to make everyone "take care of them". If the state level organization for DD services will not help them, I'd get an attorney to make them sit up and bark. A careful list of everything the child had threatened, broken, damaged, and everyone hit, hurt, spat on, clawed, etc, along with all threats added to wording about suing if anything serious happens AFTER there has been clear warning to everyone and their dog via certified letter ....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I am totally grasping at straws here, but wonder if anyone may have ideas that none of us have used. We have some dear church friends that have a 14 yr old DD. She is mentally impaired, although not profoundly - functions at about an 8 yr old level. She is also schizophrenic and violent. Extremely violent. She is expelled from school for threatening/trying violence there. As in threatening/planning to kill people. She promises to kill her parents. She has tried. She is in and out of behavioral health places, but none will keep her long term. She is on a waiting list to get into a state hospital, but they are having issues with accepting her even if a spot does open up because of her low IQ. She is an only child. She is not safe around other people. Her parents are not safe in their own house. Behavioral health hospital will keep her only for a few days, maybe a week, at a time. Then they dismiss her to parents that she plots to kill. They don't want to pick her up, but they either pick her up or get charged with child abandonment and arrested. She just came home yesterday from another stint at the behavior health hosp. (after waking in the night and sneaking downstairs to try to kill her dad. They call the police, police take her to the hosp. She gets dismissed. Lather, rinse, repeat.) Tonight, her dad went to the ER from our house. He has health issues that are made much worse by the DD episodes. We found him in his car, breathing, but unresponsive. Didn't know where he was. Weak and headache. This happens EVERY time she comes home. It's his body's fight or flight reaction. Physically, it is killing him slowly. He will stroke out one of these days. They are stuck in limbo. Hosp. won't/can't keep her (because MCaid refuses to pay for more than so many days, even with letters from Dr's). Waitlisted at state mental hospital. Screwed every way they look. They don't have financial resources. They are just trying to stay alive. Literally. Legally, they are screwed. Is there anything...anything to be done? Can you pray with us? This is so very hard for their marriage, for them, for all of us to watch. And apparently her behavior will escalate as she goes through adolescence. My suggestion is a tiny thing compared to what they are dealing with, but does her room have an alarm? They should alarm her bedroom door and windows. In the home security section of stores like Lowes are loud alarms with key pads. It is NOT a lock, just a warning to wake them should she try to sneak out. It can also be set to chime for daytime use. And they should put a baby monitor in her room so they can hear her at night and other times during the day. Not a fix of course, just an intermediate suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea1 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Could they get an attorney and go to court to have her committed (do judges still do this?)? I would think with all of the police reports and her school records they would have plenty of evidence that she is a threat to herself and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommie_Jen Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 Your description of his response to her coming home is, well, dramatic. Some people who are not good at getting their needs met lapse into rage and violence, and some become piteous and needy, or even cut and stab themselves to make everyone "take care of them". If the state level organization for DD services will not help them, I'd get an attorney to make them sit up and bark. A careful list of everything the child had threatened, broken, damaged, and everyone hit, hurt, spat on, clawed, etc, along with all threats added to wording about suing if anything serious happens AFTER there has been clear warning to everyone and their dog via certified letter ....? Thanks. Her dad, our friend, has had many mini-strokes in the past. He's in his early 40's, just poor health. We've known them for about 10 years or so, and that's how we've always known him. He's apt to collapse occasionally or have occasional seizures. I really don't know the medical reason why. We noticed his car was still here about 10 minutes after he left tonight, so DH went out to check on him. He was slumped over, breathing, but not responding, pupils really really dilated, clammy sweaty...then puked. He came around a little bit and managed to get out that his head really hurt and he felt really weak. His wife was here by then (they live pretty much around the corner from us) and she didn't want an ambulance, so the 3 of us got him to her car to go to the ER. Many people are suggesting an attorney. I'm not sure if they've considered that before. I will bring it up to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommie_Jen Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 My suggestion is a tiny thing compared to what they are dealing with, but does her room have an alarm? They should alarm her bedroom door and windows. In the home security section of stores like Lowes are loud alarms with key pads. It is NOT a lock, just a warning to wake them should she try to sneak out. It can also be set to chime for daytime use. And they should put a baby monitor in her room so they can hear her at night and other times during the day. Not a fix of course, just an intermediate suggestion. She sleeps upstairs and they sleep downstairs. They have the stairs rigged with gates and alarms to alert them if she tries to come down the stairs. She has her own bathroom upstairs, so she is absolutely not allowed down stairs once she goes to bed until they release they gate/alarms in the morning. No exceptions. So when the alarm went off late last week in the night...she was on her way to their room. At least they have that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Could they get an attorney and go to court to have her committed (do judges still do this?)? I would think with all of the police reports and her school records they would have plenty of evidence that she is a threat to herself and others. In our state a judge does do this, but parents can't bring it to court. Two mental health professionals (usually a psychiatrist plus either a social worker or psychologist .... because they are cheaper than a second psychiatrist) have to sign a petition. In order to get someone under enough immediate control to put IN this petition, a CDMHP ... county designated mental health professional (usually a social worker) does an emergency hold. Other states the emergency hold can be done by a 2 PC (Two physician consent). I'm not familiar with much beyond WA and NY, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniBlondes Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I don't have any suggestions but I have said a prayer. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Are they calling the police? I have a friend with a son with an ASD and mental health issues who gets violent at times, and when he gets out of control, the ones who can get him in an emergency placement quickly are the police. The police reports and past records were also helpful in getting him into a long-term placement, and in getting Medicaid to cover services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 What about meds? It seems like they must have tried this route, but I think I'd find another doctor and try some more. With things as bad as you describe, I would think some pretty strong medication would be in order to keep her and others safe. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissad2 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 :grouphug: Praying for this family. My first thought when I read this was..."I wonder about her diet?". Grasping at straws but I might try an elimination diet as well. It couldn't possibly hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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