FaithManor Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Trouble is even hiking isn't free anymore! Decent shoes are expensive, gas to destination is outrageous....some hiking trails charge a fee...even packing a lunch adds up. I know it isn't WDW prices, but it sure isn't free. We can't take our 3 boys to the lake for the day (no boat, just swimming) for less than $50 and that is if we skip a meal out on the way home when everyone is starving. Isn't that the truth? I am amazed at some of the stuff that now has fees. But, it's because of state budget cuts. The money to maintain trails, picnic areas, take out the garbage, you name it, has to come from somewhere. The local bike path may now have a yearly permit $5.00 per bike and any bike caught on the path will be issued a $50.00 fine. I hate that concept...charge the kids to ride their bikes in the only safe place to ride in the entire neighborhood. However, the city pays a lawn company to come and keep the poison ivy/poison oak well away from the path, knock down yellow jacket/hornet hives and spray them so the kids won't get stung (they leave the honey bees alone but then the honey bees don't care a lick about the kids on their bikes anyway), pick up sticks/rocks/debris that could cause someone to take a bad fall, etc. The city is out of money, so they either charge a fee, or you can't use the bike path, or they just close it down and run some fence along each end with a "No tresspassing sign." The one place a family can go for a day reasonably if you live in Michigan is a statepark for a day. A couple of years ago they started offering the annual pass at a discount if you bought it when you renewed your license plate. I think we pay $10.00 per year per vehicle and we usually only buy it for one. The stateparks here usually have picnic tables, pavillions, drinking water, nice bathrooms, and grills. So, we can pack lunch and supper and make a nice relaxing day of it at the beach. However, since it's a 25 minute drive to either of our preferred parks, there is gas cost. I for one think that a little fun and relaxation once in a while is worth the cost. Stress is literally a physical killer and a relationship killer. Consider it a legitimate health expense! :001_smile: Oh, and the blogger would NOT be able to homeschool if her plan was to use our public libraries for free books and texts. NOT.GOING.TO.HAPPEN. Our libraries are abysmal for education. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 Trouble is even hiking isn't free anymore! Decent shoes are expensive, gas to destination is outrageous....some hiking trails charge a fee...even packing a lunch adds up. I know it isn't WDW prices, but it sure isn't free. We can't take our 3 boys to the lake for the day (no boat, just swimming) for less than $50 and that is if we skip a meal out on the way home when everyone is starving. We generally hike locally here and it is free. We walk a lot just from the front door. I pack homemade food and since we have to eat anyway, that adds no expense. We don't have special shoes, but then again w/ 3 small kids we don't often go to very extreme locations. Although I'd love nicer shoes. Mrs. Bushman- thanks for replying I didn't know you were on here and I was actually feeling quite bad for you. We all have different lives, different blessings and struggles and I'm sure those who read your blog are finding it helpful, certainly others won't. We do a lot of the same things and we certainly don't feel deprived, far from it. I've done the same thing for curriculum as well. I'm using some expensive stuff next year but my expense was zero as I just sold previous items. It won't always be that way I know especially as they get older but I'll enjoy it while I can. I'll be interested in seeing utility cost break down. Our initial fee is a good amount of your budget. To have a cost that low we would have to use maybe 100 kwH a month. But yet again we don't have water costs. Utility costs very widely as well, so that is hard to compare but I'm always looking for ways to cut back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 I for one think that a little fun and relaxation once in a while is worth the cost. Stress is literally a physical killer and a relationship killer. Consider it a legitimate health expense! :001_smile: The point is though for many is that you can have fun and relax for free or very cheaply. Most divorces these days are caused by debt/money issues. It certainly hasn't been a stress to our marriage in that way as we are in this together. I feel much less stress actively watching our money and saving actually. Dh feels a weight lifted as it was a huge stress to him as to what he would do if he lost his job. Knowing we could survive on a little piddly job after another 7 months makes him feel much, much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Isn't that the truth? I am amazed at some of the stuff that now has fees. But, it's because of state budget cuts. The money to maintain trails, picnic areas, take out the garbage, you name it, has to come from somewhere. The local bike path may now have a yearly permit $5.00 per bike and any bike caught on the path will be issued a $50.00 fine. I hate that concept...charge the kids to ride their bikes in the only safe place to ride in the entire neighborhood. However, the city pays a lawn company to come and keep the poison ivy/poison oak well away from the path, knock down yellow jacket/hornet hives and spray them so the kids won't get stung (they leave the honey bees alone but then the honey bees don't care a lick about the kids on their bikes anyway), pick up sticks/rocks/debris that could cause someone to take a bad fall, etc. The city is out of money, so they either charge a fee, or you can't use the bike path, or they just close it down and run some fence along each end with a "No tresspassing sign." The one place a family can go for a day reasonably if you live in Michigan is a statepark for a day. A couple of years ago they started offering the annual pass at a discount if you bought it when you renewed your license plate. I think we pay $10.00 per year per vehicle and we usually only buy it for one. The stateparks here usually have picnic tables, pavillions, drinking water, nice bathrooms, and grills. So, we can pack lunch and supper and make a nice relaxing day of it at the beach. However, since it's a 25 minute drive to either of our preferred parks, there is gas cost. I for one think that a little fun and relaxation once in a while is worth the cost. Stress is literally a physical killer and a relationship killer. Consider it a legitimate health expense! :001_smile: Oh, and the blogger would NOT be able to homeschool if her plan was to use our public libraries for free books and texts. NOT.GOING.TO.HAPPEN. Our libraries are abysmal for education. Faith Our state parks (AR) are a good deal too. We make use of them. I agree it is money well spent, but wow, back in the day my mom could take us kids to the river for FREE and back then gas was cheap. (But I do remember how she rationed gas...couldn't go to X because she had enough gas to last until pay day). I'd definitely pay for a bike trail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wabi Sabi Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Our state charges $5/vehicle admission into the state parks, but we always buy a pass that is good for the entire year for $30. We certainly get our money's worth out of it, but then again, we have three state parks all within a 15-30 minute drive from our home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) We can walk to a river and creek from my house, one of the perks of living here. We are surrounded by National Forest as well. I can just walk out my door and be in the Nat'l Forest in about 2 minutes. I don't know any rivers that charge just to go to them, although if you want to rent a pavilion that costs. Most around here don't do anything like that. It is a low COL area with low wages though. There are pros and cons to living in any area. We pay more in gas for dh to go to work but as I said previously we also have perks here. We are close to his family and surrounded by nature. We can do a lot of things to put us more self-sufficient where we are at. I don't want to just lower our bills but move to where we provide more for ourselves. We probably could find a house close to what Mrs. Bushman paid if we wanted to live in a little town around here but again none here locally have any decent jobs anywhere close, so we'd still have a ton in gas expense. Besides the fact that I like the freedom of living in the country. Edited June 4, 2012 by soror Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Thank you so much for linking to my blog. Reading your comments has helped me see what people find helpful and also perhaps misleading/confusing about my blog. I hope to address some of these concerns in the future. For now, I am happy to address some of your questions/concerns.I am also happy to answer questions people have at bobbie@budgetingwiththebushmans.com. I understand that people are skeptical about our lifestyle. I know I am lucky to have a part-time job with insurance. I also know it was a great find to get a house for $13,000. I also know that my husband and I worked very hard to pay down all our debt before embarking on this lifestyle. We each worked two jobs and paid off $62,000 in four years. We sold a four bedroom house with a mortgage and most of our stuff with it. We were craving simplicity. I am telling the truth about our utility bill. In fact, I'll post a picture of the next one on my blog. We heat with wood which we get for free and we don't have air conditioning. As for homeschooling supplies, we have been homeschooling for two years so I had an initial start up cost. Now, though, I just sell our old stuff to buy "new" used stuff. We also share curriculum with other local families, lowering the amount each family needs to buy. For birthday parties, we bring homemade or used gifts. We get the used items from the consignment store where I trade in old things we don't need for store credit. We can then use that credit to buy things we want/need. Or my kids give something of theirs that they no longer need. We've never had this received negatively and many other families have adopted our used present giving strategies. If we really need something, we buy it. If we have an emergency, of course, we address. But otherwise we are committed to trying not to spend money. My income is roughly double our budget so we try to save 50% of our money. I am also going to post our exact expenses in the month of June as part of my "Write It Down Challenge". So, if you want to see what exactly we spend, check back in. I know we are extreme. My family has found such freedom in living a debt-free lifestyle. My only goal is to encourage others to do what they can to live a simpler life, if that is their desire. I don't expect everyone to do exactly as we do. Thank you for reading, Bobbie Bushman Someone said we have four kids. We don't. We have a family of four so we only have two kids. I also want to say that my family and I feel like we have an abundant life. We used to live a fast paced and expensive lifestyle and we didn't find joy in it. So, please don't feel like we are sitting around depriving ourselves. We have fun, we play, we learn. We just do it for free whenever possible. :001_smile: I hadn't checked it out before, but I definitely will now after seeing these gracious responses. Your family sounds very happy with your lifestyle. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I hadn't checked it out before, but I definitely will now after seeing these gracious responses. Your family sounds very happy with your lifestyle. :001_smile: Yes, me too. I can tell you what would be helpful for me and yet I realize no one is going to be comfortable sharing such a thing...is where does every penny go? As in---what is frugal person's income and where does all of it go? That helps me. It helps me to see what is reasonable and what is difficult to do but what is possible to do. And that is the trouble with these blogs....either they make so much that people with significantly lower incomes are insulted that the blogger is claiming to be 'frugal'....or they make so little that they qualify for aid or EIC and a significant portion of the population is insulted in some way by that. (Neither extreme insults me btw) On livinglikenoonelse.com some people will post their zero budgets....and that is helpful to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Someone said we have four kids. We don't. We have a family of four so we only have two kids. I also want to say that my family and I feel like we have an abundant life. We used to live a fast paced and expensive lifestyle and we didn't find joy in it. So, please don't feel like we are sitting around depriving ourselves. We have fun, we play, we learn. We just do it for free whenever possible. :001_smile: Your replies to this thread are very gracious. I posted a very skeptical response because there is no way in a radius of 100 miles from my house that we could live that cheaply. There is a $20.00 minimum monthly fee for just having an account for electricity. I know this because my mom just specifically asked this about her electric bill which seemed high to her when she purposely tried to use almost no electricity. Getting free wood seems like an even more impossible task, even if it were possible to heat our home with wood. And what about hot water for bathing? I know we could live more frugally than we do, but I don't want to try that much unless I absolutely had to. I have been forced to live extremely frugally in the past because of limited income, and it's not a lifestyle I would deliberately choose. You can't take it with you, so I'm going to use it to enjoy the time we have here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendi Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I agree the Bushman blog doesn't seem helpful for the majority of us. $40 a month for gas? That won't fill pay for one tank of gas, and with dh's commute to work and ds's appointments across town three times a week, we are using a lot of gas right now. I also don't understand how her utilities can be $25. Does anyone else here pay that little? She also doesn't budget anything for car maintenance, health, clothes, home maintenance. How will they maintain their house and car? How do they pay for health care? I'll go check out the other blog now, and see if it's more applicable to my life. Wendi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking Squirrels Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 The Bushman one seems unrealistic. There's a lot she leaves out. I followed her link to another of her posts and there are things she pays for annually, so she doesn't count them in her monthly budget. But to be realistic when you're sharing with others, that needs to be divided out. She also says when "unexpected" things come up they use savings, so she basically uses savings, I assume, to pay for doctor appts and meds. There are other necessities she doesn't have on there at all, like clothing. She has nothing for homeschooling which she does. She says she sells old stuff to fund new, but that rarely would come out even and what about basic supplies that get used up like pencils and paper? If I had to, I could cut down more than I have already, but not to the level she has listed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Yes, this helps me as well. I never post our totals, as in income, but what I feel comfortable doing is posting things like: "We have $XXX amount remaining after calculating in mortgage, insurance, regular bills like electricity and necessary gas." We have gotten more lax after paying off all debts other than the house, fully funding our emergency fund, and starting up sinking funds for things like college expenses and a car replacement. I probably should tighten up a bit, although some our most recent spending hasn't been on fun stuff. $1,600 to get my son tested for some long overdue things going on, $500 for taxes, $500 for some needed repair work, etc.... Dawn Yes, me too. I can tell you what would be helpful for me and yet I realize no one is going to be comfortable sharing such a thing...is where does every penny go? As in---what is frugal person's income and where does all of it go? That helps me. It helps me to see what is reasonable and what is difficult to do but what is possible to do. And that is the trouble with these blogs....either they make so much that people with significantly lower incomes are insulted that the blogger is claiming to be 'frugal'....or they make so little that they qualify for aid or EIC and a significant portion of the population is insulted in some way by that. (Neither extreme insults me btw) On livinglikenoonelse.com some people will post their zero budgets....and that is helpful to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I agree the Bushman blog doesn't seem helpful for the majority of us. $40 a month for gas? That won't fill pay for one tank of gas, and with dh's commute to work and ds's appointments across town three times a week, we are using a lot of gas right now. I also don't understand how her utilities can be $25. Does anyone else here pay that little? She also doesn't budget anything for car maintenance, health, clothes, home maintenance. How will they maintain their house and car? How do they pay for health care? I'll go check out the other blog now, and see if it's more applicable to my life. Wendi Dh and I looked over our budget carefully this weekend (we have two residences currently and the extra costs are KILLING us). We spent over $600 in gas last month. His is roughly $70 to fill up and he is going back and forth to work (130 miles) each week, oftentimes coming home for midweek services....and then trips to pick up his boys.....We did discuss limiting our trips back and forth and various ways to save gas money....we think we can get it down to about $350 a month until we move....less after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I would like to know what paying things with a tax refund means. Do you mean that you have so much withheld that you get a big refund? Or is your income so low that you have an earned income credit? We break close to even. This year we paid $500 to State but will get over that amount back from Federal if my Dh ever finishes our taxes! (he is an accountant.) However, it is nowhere near enough to pay any yearly bills. Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 The problem with comparing oneself to anyone else is that every family has unique needs. We all live in vastly different areas, have vastly different circumstances and even within the US, there are very different economic realities. We could not purchase a home for $13,000 in our area. We'd have to move to where the Bushmans live... our utility bill could never be this low because the base rate is twice what they pay...she has no medical/prescription/supplements expenses listed - I need a few things that keep me from falling apart...I'd have to get rid of my dog since he does eat occasionally...gasoline is currently $4.15 a gallon here and I could hardly make it to the grocery store and back if I only spent $40 a month... I really enjoyed reading the Bushman blog because I am glad someone can do all this and it works for them. My reality, however, is not their reality. She also has to have a dh who is on board with this. Frankly I don't think my dh would be happy to agree to such drastic measures so he and I have to compromise. We can take it as a challenge to cut back and find more creative ways to get by but trying to "match" what someone else does seems impractical and doomed to failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) She also doesn't budget anything for car maintenance, health, clothes, home maintenance. How will they maintain their house and car? How do they pay for health care? Most financial planning info I've read suggest saving up for such things. So, house maintenance wouldn't be a monthly expenditure past the point of saving up for various things as needed. Trying your best to prepare ahead of time. Most things that come up aren't surprising but if it does happen that is why you should have an emergency fund, then if it has to be used you have to go back in saving mode again to bring it back up to level. On health insurance and such I know here I forget to put it down because our contribution is pre-tax through dh's work and reasonably low as we are extremely high ded/oop. We are blessed that we generally don't have those expenses. We had some dental expenses, we cut back on other things and paid out of pocket. I'm having a baby this year, thus my poor grocery budget and anything that might have been fun has been cut to pay for that out of pocket. We had some car repairs and that partially was funded w/ budget cuts and partially by the emergency fund. As I said though we are working on building bigger funds for the house and car though, it is an expected expense w/ our older cars. Generally for us here though house maintenance is small as our house is new(after the rebuild anyway). We have water filters but that is every 6 months. We need to replace the water heater but we planning for that next year. Edited June 4, 2012 by soror Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I would like to know what paying things with a tax refund means. Do you mean that you have so much withheld that you get a big refund? Or is your income so low that you have an earned income credit? Low income means low tax bracket, plus EIC, plus several children who are a $1,000 tax credit each (as well as an exemption for each), plus mortgage interest/real estate tax deduction -- yeah, you can reduce your withholding to zero for the federal and still get a bunch back. And even in states with flat rates, at a certain point of income vs. dependents, you may qualify for tax forgiveness and get a portion of your state income taxes back too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 These blogs always make me feel like a failure. I so wish I could do this! See my post below. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 I would like to know what paying things with a tax refund means. Do you mean that you have so much withheld that you get a big refund? Or is your income so low that you have an earned income credit? We break close to even. This year we paid $500 to State but will get over that amount back from Federal if my Dh ever finishes our taxes! (he is an accountant.) However, it is nowhere near enough to pay any yearly bills. Dawn I looked up the EIC the other day and I don't know how they wouldn't. It seems we will here this year w/ dh's work being cut back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Getting free wood seems like an even more impossible task, even if it were possible to heat our home with wood. And what about hot water for bathing? IDK about the Bushmans, but we have an outdoor furnace that burns wood and heats water, which then heats air inside the house. It also has an attachment that lets it heat the water in our hot water heater too, so that reduces electricity costs there, since it doesn't add any more electricity to the small amount needed to run the furnace anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Amen, Faith! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsbushman Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I would like to know what paying things with a tax refund means. Do you mean that you have so much withheld that you get a big refund? Or is your income so low that you have an earned income credit? We break close to even. This year we paid $500 to State but will get over that amount back from Federal if my Dh ever finishes our taxes! (he is an accountant.) However, it is nowhere near enough to pay any yearly bills. Dawn Our income is that low. I wrote a post about it here: http://www.budgetingwiththebushmans.com/2012/01/what-to-do-with-income-tax-refund.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpoy85 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I dont think we could cut any lower really- IF we had to, we could cut Internet and save $20 a month. We have an Obama phone, so no cellphone bill. We dont have cable. Everything else is already dirt cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I do know how it works, I just didn't know how the blogger was able to do it. We don't qualify. Dawn Low income means low tax bracket, plus EIC, plus several children who are a $1,000 tax credit each (as well as an exemption for each), plus mortgage interest/real estate tax deduction -- yeah, you can reduce your withholding to zero for the federal and still get a bunch back. And even in states with flat rates, at a certain point of income vs. dependents, you may qualify for tax forgiveness and get a portion of your state income taxes back too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Thanks for these links! I can't fully relate to either blogger(one with a much higher income and one with a lower income and different lifestyle), but they were both really thought provoking. I got some good from each in the time I spent reading them last night when I should have been asleep. DH is heading into a new job with a higher pay scale than we ever anticipated, so this was a timely read for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie131 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 There is no way we could live off the Bushman budget. My hb`s child support payment eats up almost all of her monthly budget! The blogs don`t really apply to us, we live in a different country with different tax rates and costs of living. Everything here is more expensive so it just doesn`t work. We also happen to live on the side of our country with the lowest pay, highest taxes and highest costs of living so it is pretty difficult to make ends meet here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedmom4 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Thank you so much for posting both of the blogs. I agree with many others that the Bushman's budget would never work for my family. We spend a lot on medical expenses and activities for my kids. I also have 2 teenagers, soon-to-be 3, and they are eating me out of house and home. My 12 and 10 year old sons are like bottomless pits!:001_smile: I did find the blog to be very encouraging. I am a big fan of Dave Ramsey and I am always looking for budgeting inspiration. God Bless, Elise in NC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Trouble is even hiking isn't free anymore! Decent shoes are expensive, gas to destination is outrageous....some hiking trails charge a fee...even packing a lunch adds up. I know it isn't WDW prices, but it sure isn't free. We can't take our 3 boys to the lake for the day (no boat, just swimming) for less than $50 and that is if we skip a meal out on the way home when everyone is starving. Yes. When money is tight, even the teeny things add up to break the bank. Everyone says, "It's only $5!" as though that is the only thing that is $5. But at the end of a month, we've spent 300 $5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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