How do you accelerate in math but still make sure they get the basics down pat?

[HappyGrace]

I wouldn't say ds9 is "gifted" in math at all but he appears to be above average. He is totally average (or even a bit below) in every other subject.

 

He likes to do the Singapore IP problems best out of any of the math we do (we do CLE and MM also-just selected problems from those; I would say the CLE is his "main" math because of the solid teaching and spiral review but it is very easy for him). He also likes MEP.

 

He has finished 3rd grade math but we're doing Sing IP 2b, which seems like about the right level of challenge, so like I said, he's more just "bright" than "gifted" at math. He is a perfectionist so I think if he got over his head in math he'd just get frustrated. He can't stand it when he can't figure a problem out and gives up, so I'm trying to keep the challenge level right w/out frustrating.

 

I think he'd like to move faster but I don't want him to miss basics. We both don't like Singapore and MM because they are mastery based and he gets bored staying on the same topic for awhile.

 

I am deathly afraid of TT because of the horrible reviews, but I'm wondering if something like that would be better so he can just move ahead more quickly. It seems the main problem with TT is that it's not "on level" but if he could just work through it very quickly, like two levels a year, that wouldn't matter. Then on the side we could do all his "fun math"-like IP, CWP, etc.?

 

I also thought about Kahn Academy but he is not good with "lecture" type stuff so I think he'd tune out.

 

AGH! I guess I could just use ideas, or anecdotes about what did you do, or suggestions! Like how did your dc get to doing Algebra at age 9-how did you KNOW they had all the basics down and were ready to move on, how did you accelerate in order to do that, etc?

 

I sort of feel like if I could just telescope all the basic math through like 6th grade into two years, that would work for him. Then we could just extend "sideways" to stretch the basics-like with IP and CWP, or Hands On Equations, etc. I just have no idea how to telescope math curricula down-but I do it ALL the time with other curricula for older dd12 (who actually is probably gifted-in everything but math-lol!) I can do it with other curric because I am strong in those areas, but I am NOT strong in math.

Edited May 14, 2012 by HappyGrace

[Five More Minutes]

:bigear: I'll be really interested in hearing what others have to say, as I have a girl similar to your student: bright in math, but also a raving perfectionist. She LOVES math and figuring things out ... when it goes smoothly. When there's a puzzle or, heaven help us, a mistake, we have tears and a meltdown.

 

I've heard that Beast Academy may be a program that forces students to learn to puzzle through problems. I'm wondering if it may work as a supplement for her down the road, but will be watching this thread closely to see what others say about it.

[HappyGrace]

I thought about BA for him, but it sounds like since it is Grade 3, it pretty much extends "sideways" rather than moving ahead. Which is fine, but for the cost, it has a lot of stuff in it that we've already covered, like basic multiplication. I have enough programs that are helping us expand "sideways". I would have loved BA if we could have started it last fall-I think that would have been the perfect thing at the perfect time!

[Iucounu]

You can adopt a practice of moving on only when your son demonstrates mastery. A lot of parents seem to not worry about mastering basic math facts, however, before moving ahead, as long as the student masters the facts within a reasonable time. My personal approach is to ensure mastery before moving on, especially since I know some effective ways to foster memorization of facts, but there seem to be some children who have an extra hard time with memorization of numeric facts. If I had one of those kids, I might well move ahead and concentrate intensively on mastering the times table etc. in parallel.

[Embassy]

I don't know if what we do would count as acceleration, but I do math on several levels. We have a main math program and don't let math facts hold us back. We do math facts separately. I also introduce concepts beyond their main math program through things like living books, DVDs, science, hands-on math - in other words, things that they would consider more fun.

[HappyGrace]

He has all the facts down pretty well. He's still nailing down some multi/div facts but is almost there.

 

I love the idea of introducing math in other areas and will think about ways to do that.

 

But basically the more I think about it, it's more like I said before-he's ready to advance through the basic math topics but just more quickly, I think. Like I think he could do 4-6 grade math in about a year and a half or less if I could find some way to do that.

 

And meanwhile give him more "depth" with challenging word problems, etc.

[Mandy in TN]

But basically the more I think about it, it's more like I said before-he's ready to advance through the basic math topics but just more quickly, I think. Like I think he could do 4-6 grade math in about a year and a half or less if I could find some way to do that.

 

And meanwhile give him more "depth" with challenging word problems, etc.

For the basics you may could go through the levels of MUS as quickly as he presents mastery. This may would allow you to spend more time on this depth programs.

 

My youngest does Kumon math and that allowed him to master the basics while still having plenty of time for depth. MUS in elementary is very similar in sequence to Kumon and will allow you to be in control of the speed at which your child progresses.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[SkateLeft]

My son accelerated through math by just moving through it at his own pace. He still worked through all the SM books from 1A through 6B, but in the span of 3.5 years rather than 6. We didn't skip anything. I didn't make him do loads of review, and I didn't slow him down.

[Iucounu]

He has all the facts down pretty well. He's still nailing down some multi/div facts but is almost there.

Then I would plow on ahead, compacting and telescoping away. The word "gifted" is just a label; though I have a feeling most children would work faster than a normal PS pace in math if properly instructed, your son certainly has a bent for it if he is working at double speed or faster. I certainly wouldn't hold him back, and after completing sixth grade I would plow on to the next topics without stopping to broaden. You can always find problem-solving practice and enrichment at the appropriate level.

[Spy Car]

Accelerating to what end?

 

If one uses a super-easy math program so they can move quickly (and shallowly) though the programs at break-neck speed, is that advisable? I certainly don't think so.

 

I would not give a kid who likes MEP and the Singapore IPs math books that require no thought just so he could accelerate through the "levels." Otherwise you're in the "race to nowhere."

 

Bill

[HappyGrace]

No, that's not what I want to do or why I want to do it. Rereading what I said about TT, I can see how you construed that though.

 

I just meant I want to help him move faster through the material so he is not bored; so he is at the proper level that challenges him. I think some curric seems harder to go through quickly to get him to the level he should be; thus my TT question-it seems like it is built more for moving ahead quickly than some others are, if that makes sense.

 

ETA: Oh, ok, I see now that you prbly referred to your nemesis, CLE-lol! :)

Edited May 14, 2012 by HappyGrace

[Iucounu]

I missed that the main program was CLE. I agree with Bill.

[jennynd]

I give DS a home made review sheet once a week. Usually 10-15 question cover varies topics

[HappyGrace]

CLE is the "main" program in that I feel it gives him the spiral to keep things fresh. Plus neither of us like mastery programs like Singapore or MM-too much time on one subject in a row. I really just feel like the 10-15 min per day he spends on CLE is profitable for spiral review of things like how many feet in a ton and all that. When we do strictly mastery, all that goes out the window and he forgets and we have to spend time reviewing. So I probably shouldn't have said it's the "main"-it's more like the "vitamins" to keep the skills solid while we work on the conceptual elsewhere.

 

I am willing to reconsider though and try things another way. I like the idea of just moving quickly thru Singapore, but I get SO bogged down with the HIG (which I feel is necessary) and so on. And again, the mastery thing.

[HappyGrace]

I'm thinking of maybe accelerating through MM to get him to a comfortable level where math is not too easy like it is now. And drop the CLE but just do a homemade review sheet for spiral review a couple days/wk like jennynd suggested.

 

I would love to hear specifically how others got their kids moved so far forward so young while still making sure they had the basics!

[Spy Car]

No, that's not what I want to do or why I want to do it. Rereading what I said about TT, I can see how you construed that though.

 

I just meant I want to help him move faster through the material so he is not bored; so he is at the proper level that challenges him. I think some curric seems harder to go through quickly to get him to the level he should be; thus my TT question-it seems like it is built more for moving ahead quickly than some others are, if that makes sense.

 

ETA: Oh, ok, I see now that you prbly referred to your nemesis, CLE-lol! :)

 

It sounds like you're thinking of accelerating through basic math so you can then make "sideways" moves in two years. All I'm saying is I would make the "deeper" moves now and keep challenging work as a vibrant part of your mix.

 

To do CLE and TT (which I only know via its reputation) would provoke a face-palm :D

 

I would at least look at Beast Academy. My son was almost done with Primary Mathematics when BA was released. And, while there is arguably some backtracking in terms of "sequence" when looking at the Table of Contents, the material is covered in a unique way. He has gotten a great deal of BA, including enjoyment and challenge.

 

The "frustration" you discuss your son exhibiting with work he can't easily solve is something that is best overcome. I wonder if BA wouldn't be the best program to help him do that. It keeps grading up the challenges. It asks them to solve things, then shows them how, and then amps up the problems again, and has solutions if one gets tripped up. The "fun" format engages kids, and more than a few parents have commented how BA has helped their children overcome their "perfectionism."

 

While you'd have some "review" by topic, the BA materials are going to be teaching things a child would not get in any other standard math program. It is not like there would not be "challenge." But probably (I would hope) not so much to cause meltdowns. So it is something I would at least consider.

 

Bill

[wapiti]

The "frustration" you discuss your son exhibiting with work he can't easily solve is something that is best overcome. I wonder if BA wouldn't be the best program to help him do that. It keeps grading up the challenges. It asks them to solve things, then shows them how, and then amps up the problems again, and has solutions if one gets tripped up. The "fun" format engages kids, and more than a few parents have commented how BA has helped their children overcome their "perfectionism."

 

I was just talking about the tricky business of perfectionism on another thread here, and thinking out loud about finding the delicate balance of the right level of challenge/frustration. I'm starting to think that problem solving can help simply because the problems are complex enough to require the time to think deeper, even if that takes longer. In contrast, traditional math problems at the early elementary level are about computation and can be completed very quickly, and feed into speed issues.

[Bang!Zoom!]

As a depth issue, we are adding biographies of Women in Math.

[Beth in SW WA]

thus my TT question-it seems like it is built more for moving ahead quickly than some others are, if that makes sense.

 

:iagree: from experience. Dd9 cruised through multiple TT levels and is now on TT Alg 1. If your dc learns the TT-way (fun, interactive, audio-visual, independent learning) and is a certain type of learner (can skip problems as needed, works at own pace, extreme perfectionist, etc) then it might work but would be an expensive route to take.

 

I have multiple kids so that sweetens the deal.

 

Dd14 will do TT Alg 2 this summer as a quick review before official alg 2 at school in the fall. Dd9 will use it next year.

 

If you use TT along w/ a 'conceptual/rigorous' program then you should be fine. We have always used a mixed bag of resources (SM, MM, HoE, LOF) so no stone has been left unturned.

 

HTH!

[SunshineMom]

Wow- OneMom, what an amazing resource! Thank you:001_smile:

[Spy Car]

I was just talking about the tricky business of perfectionism on another thread here, and thinking out loud about finding the delicate balance of the right level of challenge/frustration. I'm starting to think that problem solving can help simply because the problems are complex enough to require the time to think deeper, even if that takes longer. In contrast, traditional math problems at the early elementary level are about computation and can be completed very quickly, and feed into speed issues.

 

That is the way I see it. And I'd even go further by suggesting that how we approach subjects like math not only has an outward effect on their tendencies and behaviors, but also profoundly effects what sort of brain we are helping them build.

 

Medical science seems clear. When one engages in deep problem solving with plenty of cognitive load the mind responds by building a neural network of dendritic connections. It becomes a stronger brain it much the same way physical exercise builds a stronger body.

 

Young children's minds are particularly responsive to creative stimuli that encourage "branching" and creation of a dense network. But it is "use it, or lose it."

 

Low level math work, while practical an necessary, does not work the higher cognitive levels of the mind. One reason (not the only one) I worked with my son so hard on being able to explain his reasoning and his use of re-grouping strategies with things like addition/subtraction facts (rather than just memorizing) was to give this necessary skill acquisition exercise a higher cognitive load that might be the case with "flashcard learning."

 

I despair for children that move through math programs that never really make them *think*. It is not doing them a favor. So much of the world these days is in a rush. It is instant this, and instant that. For all the upsides of technology and electronics we also cultivating ADDish tendencies in neo-typical children. I don't want a child with the attention span of a gnat if I can help it. One who will never be able to read a challenging novel (hello Moby Dick :tongue_smilie:) or solve a challenging problem that involves logic, reasoning, work, and perhaps a little math.

 

Math is an opportunity to build minds as well as learning basic procedural skill.

 

From our many exchanges I'm quite confident we are on the exactly same page here...I'm just provoked to talk :D

 

Rant over.

 

Bill

[Beth in SW WA]

 

I despair for children that move through math programs that never really make them *think*. It is not doing them a favor. So much of the world these days is in a rush.

 

:iagree:

 

Bill, your ds is young so you haven't had the luxury of watching an 8-year-old tackle algebra. Believe me, it is one of the delights of my life to watch dd9 embrace complex concepts. Her mind is in that sweet spot. Doing SM cwps/ips are not the only venue for this type of math euphoria in a youngster.

 

For some kids, learning fractions in the context of algebra is much more stimulating. Algebra word problems blow basic math word problems out of the water. Accelerating through basic 'challenge' math and getting to the glorious world of algebra could be just the ticket for some 'gifted/mathy' students.

 

Dd9 is having a blast w/ factoring polynomials, scientific notation, graphing 2-variable inequalities, quadratics, etc.

 

We must remember that many roads lead to Rome.

[jennynd]

 

 

Low level math work, while practical an necessary, does not work the higher cognitive levels of the mind. One reason (not the only one) I worked with my son so hard on being able to explain his reasoning and his use of re-grouping strategies with things like addition/subtraction facts (rather than just memorizing) was to give this necessary skill acquisition exercise a higher cognitive load that might be the case with "flashcard learning."

 

I despair for children that move through math programs that never really make them *think*. It is not doing them a favor. So much of the world these days is in a rush. It is instant this, and instant that. For all the upsides of technology and electronics we also cultivating ADDish tendencies in neo-typical children. I don't want a child with the attention span of a gnat if I can help it. One who will never be able to read a challenging novel (hello Moby Dick :tongue_smilie:) or solve a challenging problem that involves logic, reasoning, work, and perhaps a little math.

 

Math is an opportunity to build minds as well as learning basic procedural skill.

 

From our many exchanges I'm quite confident we are on the exactly same page here...I'm just provoked to talk :D

 

Rant over.

 

Bill

:iagree:

 

DS moved quickly through SM 3-4 and 1st part 5A because Lower level math seems mostly just calculation. However, moving into 5B through 6 we slow down significantly and we add everything I can add. I do not see we will accelerate more at this point. There are just too many "thinking" you can add at a higher level.

[Spy Car]

:iagree:

 

Bill, your ds is young so you haven't had the luxury of watching an 8-year-old tackle algebra. Believe me, it is one of the delights of my life to watch dd9 embrace complex concepts. Her mind is in that sweet spot. Doing SM cwps/ips are not the only venue for this type of math euphoria in a youngster.

 

Actually, my son (who will be 8 in a couple of months) has dabbled with basic algebra problems (like linear equations and world problems) for quite some time. The chapters in Zaccarro's PGCM turned him on to this (I love the gift Zaccaro has for explaining things) and I throw basic algebra problems at thim form time to time. Stuff like:

 

Max has an sister Sue who is two years older, a bother Ted who is a year younger. His mother is three times as old as Max, and his father is three times as old plus nine years as old as Max. The total ages including Max add up to 100. How old is Max?-type questions.

 

We've also worked on understanding math axioms using variables, things like a*b=b*a or (a*b)*c=a*(b*c)

 

Even some of the basic work starting out in Miquon and MEP involved solving for unknowns and other preliminary modes of algebraic thinking.

 

I'm not in the "kids need to have hairy arm-pits" school."

 

I'm with you that algebra is cool. And it is fun to watch their minds chew on problem solving challenges.

 

For some kids, learning fractions in the context of algebra is much more stimulating. Algebra word problems blow basic math word problems out of the water. Accelerating through basic 'challenge' math and getting to the glorious world of algebra could be just the ticket for some 'gifted/mathy' students.

 

Some of the "challenge" math programs, like the aforementioned "Primary Grade Challenge Math" include algebra. There are all sorts of means to challenge minds. I do think it is possible to do "math" and get practically zero challenge. And that is a shame.

 

One also need to develop procedural competence with basic arithmetic, fractions, exponents, ratios, data analysis and things of that nature. But even "basic stuff" can be done with an eye on adding challenge to the mix, or avoiding it entirely. The BA books are interesting because even I wondered at some of the topics (like skip-counting) and thought, "what the heck?" But my fears/concerns were for naught. It was interesting. Not the BA is the only option, goodness no. We are really luck to have so many great resources out there. More than I can use.

 

Dd9 is having a blast w/ factoring polynomials, scientific notation, graphing 2-variable inequalities, quadratics, etc.

 

We must remember that many roads lead to Rome.

 

Sounds like he's having fun. I have no doubt that if by "roads" me is talking about particular programs/books that I agree. I'm also confident we'd agree that gets to achieving mathematical reasoning by cultivating mathematical reasoning. There is no one way to do that, but it isn't as likely to happen by doing a superficial skim through basic math. Some go for the "learn it later" approach, I think it is a bad bet. I'd prefer to cultivate the mind early. Sounds like that is the road you've chosen too.

 

Bill

Edited May 14, 2012 by Spy Car

[shann]

I think the thing with kids who are gifted or very bright in math is that they just do not need so many numerical/equation problems. They need math with meaning and enjoy context. Also as Bill says, their brain works harder and they build deeper connections when problems have context.

 

I was reading somewhere, maybe "the myths about gifted kids" paper that not all bright/gifted kids thrive with acceleration, what they need is emotive learning. That is what truly engages their higher level cognitive abilities.

 

So my thinking would be, introduce new subjects in the first half of the week using algorithms, equations, typical worksheet type of work. Then the second half of the week rework/present that new learning in word problems. I think only a few words problems per topic would be needed because they are really working his brain. I'm imagining Friday as spiral day. All past concepts are included in a word problem packet. Only one or two word problem per topic. That way he is getting mastery and review with higher level thinking skills and you are still making quick forward progress in the first half of the week.

[HappyGrace]

I just have a quick second....

 

This is all wonderful food for thought! I am definitely in the camp of deep cognitive work, plenty of it, and early on.

 

I will say I don't think it hurts to have them go through some "grunt work" on skill stuff (like CLE or TT, for example), as long as they're getting the cognitive too. Sometimes that type of program can get them ahead quickly so they can take on higher level cognitive work more quickly, as Beth said.

 

Bill, you are such an enabler!!!!!!! I've been telling myself since day one that I WILL. NOT. BUY. BEAST. ACADEMY. You are seriously messing with that!

[HappyGrace]

So my thinking would be, introduce new subjects in the first half of the week using algorithms, equations, typical worksheet type of work. Then the second half of the week rework/present that new learning in word problems. I think only a few words problems per topic would be needed because they are really working his brain. I'm imagining Friday as spiral day. All past concepts are included in a word problem packet. Only one or two word problem per topic. That way he is getting mastery and review with higher level thinking skills and you are still making quick forward progress in the first half of the week.

 

 

This is the curriculum we'd like to have....have you written it yet? lol :)

[shann]

This is the curriculum we'd like to have....have you written it yet? lol :)

Lol not yet but maybe once I get my education degree I will :D

[LittleIzumi]

ETA: Uh, I didn't mean to thread hijack. Sorry. Carry on.

 

Excuse me while I :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: on this topic. We did our 1st grade testing (for my own FYI, mostly, and for documentation). She flew through the entire thing with zero issues until she hit the math. It is extremely apparent that she still doesn't grasp written place value properly. She's just as likely to add ones as tens. Multi-step problems were impossible with the ADD so she doesn't make 10. She couldn't do most of the math above 10 at. all. Half of her answers were wrong in the computation.

 

And then afterwards she sat on the couch and asked if we could do that fun math she used to do with dad--"algebra." I wrote a couple of basic equations equations (addition, subtraction, and multiplication) and she solved them easily. She can do logic at many grades higher than her own. She also has zero issue in the typical games that involve higher numbers. She can play games with scores up to the hundreds, can trade groups of ones for tens, etc, with no difficulty. But on paper...

 

She doesn't know how to solve them on paper, or formally--she'll say she can't subtract 20-5, she doesn't know HOW, but she'll pick up her pencil and write 15. She says she has the number in her head... but she doesn't know how to solve it purposefully. So she shuts down at any paper math above 10. She had the correct answer for one of the questions but couldn't tell which was 27 vs 72. Yet she's BORED with low-level math. We finally got her up-to-10 facts to an acceptable level, but arrrrrrrgh. I feel like we've hit as far as we can with branching out before she has to sit down and figure out place value and multi-digit addition/subtraction until she GETS it.

 

:glare:

Edited May 15, 2012 by LittleIzumi

[kwg]

This has been an interesting read! I had my son tested last year to help with placement in a math level and all it did was leave me more confused :lol:

 

My son accelerated through math by just moving through it at his own pace. He still worked through all the SM books from 1A through 6B, but in the span of 3.5 years rather than 6. We didn't skip anything. I didn't make him do loads of review, and I didn't slow him down.

 

 

DO you recall how long your child spent on math daily? Was it his choice?

 

Today I saw how long it took my son to do two pages of MM independently (what she recommends)- 20 min. I can see how if I made him- or he wanted to- do extra work he could accelerate faster through the program. But that child has legos to build and minecraft to play :glare: What we do to increase math time is Hands on Equations, Challenge Math, etc.

[wapiti]

Today I saw how long it took my son to do two pages of MM independently (what she recommends)- 20 min. I can see how if I made him- or he wanted to- do extra work he could accelerate faster through the program. But that child has legos to build and minecraft to play :glare: What we do to increase math time is Hands on Equations, Challenge Math, etc.

 

If you think he needs to accelerate a little bit, MM is pretty easy to accelerate through. If you're happy with his understanding of a topic, you can assign fewer problems. There are also little review lessons at the start of new topics that can be skipped if your student still remembers, etc. If he knows a topic well, you can just give him the chapter test to check for understanding, and then skip the chapter. But, if all is working well, keep doing what you're doing! It sounds like you have some excellent resources for making him think.

 

(what is up with minecraft - one of my ds9s, the one who is way behind his ability level in math, is begging for it. so far I've refused :tongue_smilie:. Maybe I should make him earn it by doing math, but then I'd have to buy it - should I continue to refuse, or use it as a carrot?? his friends have it, and he watches a lot of videos on youtube)

[nmoira]

Doing SM cwps/ips are not the only venue for this type of math euphoria in a youngster.

By 4A, Singapore PM was squashing DD the Elder's enthusiasm for math. She "had enough of it already" :tongue_smilie: and wanted more tools, not variations on a theme with the smaller toolbox. My takeaway from this was that "harder" for harder's sake isn't necessarily the best way: it can be just plain tedious if it doesn't feel like it's leading anywhere. AofPS is "hard," but most of the problem sets give a feeling of forward momentum.

 

For a few reasons, I didn't move her into algebra until just before her 10th birthday, but I did let her race ahead through basic math so she could solve problems using all the tools (and then focused on engaging supplements).

[FairProspects]

EI feel like we've hit as far as we can with branching out before she has to sit down and figure out place value and multi-digit addition/subtraction until she GETS it.

 

:glare:

 

Do you have her draw out the place value problems (using squares for hundreds, tally marks for 10s, and dots for 1s)? Ds will miss computation problems every time, unless he draws them, but when he does, there isn't a problem that can fool him. For those visual learners, they need to see it to re-group it and solve it. ;)

Edited May 15, 2012 by FairProspects
oxford comma

[LittleIzumi]

Do you have her draw out the place value problems (using squares for hundreds, tally marks for 10s, and dots for 1s)? Ds will miss computation problems every time, unless he draws them, but when he does, there isn't a problem that can fool him. For those visual learners, they need to see it to re-group it and solve it. ;)

 

Oooh. I think I'll combine that with my idea to use a different color for each place value! Thanks!

[HappyGrace]

wanted more tools, not variations on a theme with the smaller toolbox. My takeaway from this was that "harder" for harder's sake isn't necessarily the best way: it can be just plain tedious if it doesn't feel like it's leading anywhere.

 

 

Love this.

[Spy Car]

 

Bill, you are such an enabler!!!!!!! I've been telling myself since day one that I WILL. NOT. BUY. BEAST. ACADEMY. You are seriously messing with that!

 

It's because I care :D

 

Bill

[HappyGrace]

It's because I care :D

 

Bill

 

 

LOL! I will send you the bill for my BA! :)

 

BTW, take a look at this thread

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=381232

 

Some kids need more than *just* the conceptual...I've found this to be true with both my kids.

 

Even if one is not big on testing (and I am decidedly NOT), the reality is that they need to be able to do well on tests in America today. I do find that programs like CLE are good test prep, but mainly the continual spiral review of the core foundational skills are needed as an undergirding for conceptual. They NEED conceptual too-not dissing it-and I make sure my dc have it.

Edited May 16, 2012 by HappyGrace

[acurtis75]

It is late so I will confess to not reading the other posts before adding my two cents...

 

We use mus as our spine and dd was bored and frustrated because we were moving so slow so we started a system of watching each lesson, working a few problems and then if she was ready just skipping to the test instead of doing all the weekly worksheets. This means we've moved through several years worth of books in less than a year so far but since the tests go back and review systematically I know she's retaining what she learned. We actually had a meeting about math because it is her least favorite subject and discussed the acceleration plan and doing less busy work if she committed to focus and do her best on the tests.

 

We have also added Life of Fred, Singapore cwp & beast academy as supplements to break up the monotony.

[Sue Bee]

If you use TT along w/ a 'conceptual/rigorous' program then you should be fine. We have always used a mixed bag of resources (SM, MM, HoE, LOF) so no stone has been left unturned.

 

HTH!

 

I need help with the 'conceptual/rigorous' -- dd12 is doing TT and enjoyed FLL, but FLL may disappear, and it's not daily/all year. I am with you on SM, MM (I think; is it Math Mammoth?) and LOF, but what is HoE? Sorry to be dense.

[5 Hikers]

ETA: Uh, I didn't mean to thread hijack. Sorry. Carry on.

She doesn't know how to solve them on paper, or formally--she'll say she can't subtract 20-5, she doesn't know HOW, but she'll pick up her pencil and write 15. She says she has the number in her head... but she doesn't know how to solve it purposefully. So she shuts down at any paper math above 10. She had the correct answer for one of the questions but couldn't tell which was 27 vs 72. Yet she's BORED with low-level math. We finally got her up-to-10 facts to an acceptable level, but arrrrrrrgh. I feel like we've hit as far as we can with branching out before she has to sit down and figure out place value and multi-digit addition/subtraction until she GETS it.

 

:glare:

 

 

Have you looked at Montessori Math? I use this http://www.brilliantmindsmontessoristore.com/pages/Math with my younger 2 and it is wonderful to see what my 4yo can do. She can add or subtract to the thousands and understands place value.

 

It gives the hands-on aspect that helps younger kids visualize math.

 

 

 

For the OP: I am doing MM and BA next year with my ds7. Instead of concentrating on accelerating him through the grades we went wide. We completed about 6 different math programs last year, but stayed around his grade level. He was able to do TT4 in 2 weeks. I had him take the quizzes until he scored less than 95, but he did above on every test. I really wouldn't recommend it for your son at all.

[LittleIzumi]

Have you looked at Montessori Math? I use this http://www.brilliantmindsmontessoristore.com/pages/Math with my younger 2 and it is wonderful to see what my 4yo can do. She can add or subtract to the thousands and understands place value.

 

It gives the hands-on aspect that helps younger kids visualize math.

 

 

Thanks. :) I like the look of the Montessori math, and I keep going back to look at it every few months. It's just a bit out of my budget whenever I remember to look at it. I did pull out the Miquon place value work I already have (and forgot about), since they have a very different approach, and so far that's definitely having an impact. She's finally *seeing* it, and asking questions about the use of zeros and figuring out the difference between 4004 and 44, etc. Before she treated it like counting or fill-in-the-blank without understanding it.

Edited May 22, 2012 by LittleIzumi

[quark]

nm! :)

Edited May 22, 2012 by quark

[Beth in SW WA]

I need help with the 'conceptual/rigorous' -- dd12 is doing TT and enjoyed FLL, but FLL may disappear, and it's not daily/all year. I am with you on SM, MM (I think; is it Math Mammoth?) and LOF, but what is HoE? Sorry to be dense.

 

Just saw this, Sue. Here is your answer.

Hands-On Equations :001_smile:

Edited May 25, 2012 by Beth in SW WA
typo

[Beth in SW WA]

Have you looked at Montessori Math? I use this http://www.brilliantmindsmontessoristore.com/pages/Math with my younger 2 and it is wonderful to see what my 4yo can do. She can add or subtract to the thousands and understands place value.

 

It gives the hands-on aspect that helps younger kids visualize math.

 

 

 

For the OP: I am doing MM and BA next year with my ds7. Instead of concentrating on accelerating him through the grades we went wide. We completed about 6 different math programs last year, but stayed around his grade level. He was able to do TT4 in 2 weeks. I had him take the quizzes until he scored less than 95, but he did above on every test. I really wouldn't recommend it for your son at all.

 

We do tons of hands-on visual math. My dds love it. Dd9 doesn't 'need' the hands-on as much these days -- but is sure is fun! Pics here of BA, SM, TT, Education Unboxed, Crewton Ramone & MUS alg from this week.

 

Dd7 asked if we could do more 'algebra' today. Thank you, Rosie, at Education Unboxed!! :)

[Purpledaizy]

 

He is a perfectionist so I think if he got over his head in math he'd just get frustrated. He can't stand it when he can't figure a problem out and gives up, so I'm trying to keep the challenge level right w/out frustrating

 

 

My ds has similar issues. Last year we started off every lesson by explaining that if he was getting answers right, the work was too easy and he wasn't studying the correct material. I even gave silly prizes and applauded for wrong answers. It wasn't easy, but over the course of a month, his attitude changed and now he doesn't fear wrong answers at all.

 

Another exercise that worked for us in tackling frustrating math material he just wasn't "getting," was to sit side by side and let him verbally answer only the steps he felt 100% confident giving. I did all the writing and I verbalized and completed all steps he was not confident in. After two or three problems, I might ask him to give a guess at a step or calculation he was less confident about. If he gave a wrong answer, I just corrected (without saying "no" or "that's wrong") and kept going with the problem.

 

This method eliminated all "wrong" answers, as I made sure all the answers were correct. As ds mentally began to grasp concepts and methods, he would become tired of verbalizing and listening to me verbalize and just take over the problems himself.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Purpledaizy
spelling :P