Am I being unfair or does dd just have an attitude?

[Mynyel]

I have been trying to find a job. I have found a couple things online that I can make a little money with to almost break even but it take a ginormous amount of time.

 

So, I told dd14 that she needs to start teaching me grammar instead of me teaching her.

 

We are only talking FLL 4. We are slamming through it to get her up to speed.

 

We you'd think I asked her to step on a fat bug barefoot. She is hemming and hawing and frowning and just has a bit :glare: of an attitude.

 

Is this really unreasonable of me? She can handle it with her workload. She has plenty of time to do things.

 

What says the Hive?

 

PS: I threatened her with the same thing in math. Think I should add that too?? :)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I do think that's an unreasonable proposition. She's still a minor in need of instruction. If you don't have time to teach her, put her in school.

 

I'm sorry to sound so abrupt, but I can't think how else to put it.

[clarkacademy]

Well, according to alot of people children learn best when they can teach it back so I say no not unfair. She is 14 not 4. The homeschooled 14 year olds I know pretty much go their own way anyway. If she was in ps she wouldn't have someone sitting by her hand holding every second.

[Mynyel]

I do think that's an unreasonable proposition. She's still a minor in need of instruction. If you don't have time to teach her, put her in school.

 

I'm sorry to sound so abrupt, but I can't think how else to put it.

 

 

I see your point but I am not talking about handing her the book and letting go. I am talking about her reading the book and teaching me grammar. She can prepare the lesson to teach to me. Much like preparing for writing a paper. I will guide as needed but it will take some of the burden off me! :)

[Rebel Yell]

Am I understanding the abbreviations correctly? You 14yo is doing First Language Lessons level 4, which is a 4th grade book? :confused:

 

I often use 'younger' books, especially for reading/biographies- saves time and has all the necessary info, so I'm not knocking that.

 

I do think that if your daughter is that far behind in grammar, she needs more direct help. If she was simply doing yet another year of grade-level grammar which is mostly review with some new concepts, than I think doing it on her own would be OK.

 

And math? Did I read your post wrong? It sounded like a 'punishment' (not the best word, but brain isn't cooperating with word choice right now) for an attitude is for her to do Math on her own too? IMO, that is a bad idea... out of all the subjects, this is the one I wouldn't have her do on her own unless it was a program specifically for that- DVD or online teacher, for example.

 

Please ignore if I completely misunderstood- my literal, black-and-white brain gets me into trouble a lot. :glare:

 

And I don't have any advice on working and homeschooling. It's not something I have been able to do, so I try to reduce costs rather than increase income.

[Rebel Yell]

I wanted to add: perhaps finding materials that aren't teacher-intensive would help. We use Winston Grammar. It takes zero prep on my part. All I do is check worksheets/quizzes. It does have a teacher book, but Diamond just read it as a lesson rather than me presenting it to her.

[Cosmos]

I see your point but I am not talking about handing her the book and letting go. I am talking about her reading the book and teaching me grammar. She can prepare the lesson to teach to me. Much like preparing for writing a paper. I will guide as needed but it will take some of the burden off me! :)

 

I don't understand. Why would she teach you the grammar? If you do not know it already, how have you been teaching it to her?

 

Perhaps you mean that she would self-study and then demonstrate the knowledge by pretending to teach it to you. I think self-study is a reasonable option, but I would give her other options for demonstrating the knowledge. I do think requiring her to teach is the only or even the best way.

[Mynyel]

Am I understanding the abbreviations correctly? You 14yo is doing First Language Lessons level 4, which is a 4th grade book? :confused:

 

I often use 'younger' books, especially for reading/biographies- saves time and has all the necessary info, so I'm not knocking that.

 

I do think that if your daughter is that far behind in grammar, she needs more direct help. If she was simply doing yet another year of grade-level grammar which is mostly review with some new concepts, than I think doing it on her own would be OK.

 

And math? Did I read your post wrong? It sounded like a 'punishment' (not the best word, but brain isn't cooperating with word choice right now) for an attitude is for her to do Math on her own too? IMO, that is a bad idea... out of all the subjects, this is the one I wouldn't have her do on her own unless it was a program specifically for that- DVD or online teacher, for example.

 

Please ignore if I completely misunderstood- my literal, black-and-white brain gets me into trouble a lot. :glare:

 

And I don't have any advice on working and homeschooling. It's not something I have been able to do, so I try to reduce costs rather than increase income.

 

We are doing FLL to go over the basics. We hadn't really done any formal grammar. She is getting it quickly but bucks me at every chance because she does need the basics. She acts like she grasps it and she can do the exercises in the book.. but the exercises are geared towards youngers so... I thought having her teach me would be beneficial as I would know she understands it if she can show me how.

 

The Math was said tongue in cheek... I don't really teach much... I have Mr. Demme for that!

 

Ha! :) I wish I could reduce costs more. However I have to work. Have to. Dh makes enough to cover rent and utilities. The rest is up to me.

 

 

I think I may have given the wrong impression in this post. I am simply saying she teach me. She reads the book and explains it to me. If she has trouble I guide and help.

 

Golly I am not throwing her to the wolves! :001_smile:

[Mynyel]

I don't understand. Why would she teach you the grammar? If you do not know it already, how have you been teaching it to her?

 

Perhaps you mean that she would self-study and then demonstrate the knowledge by pretending to teach it to you. I think self-study is a reasonable option, but I would give her other options for demonstrating the knowledge. I do think requiring her to teach is the only or even the best way.

 

Exactly what I mean! I guess I should have put quotes around the teaching part.

 

I will pretend to be the pupil.

[Cosmos]

Exactly what I mean! I guess I should have put quotes around the teaching part.

 

I will pretend to be the pupil.

 

I would offer her other options for demonstrating her knowledge. Is there a reason you want her to use that method?

[Joanne]

As a teacher (I teach in a cottage school after homeschooling for over a decade), I occassionally use "teach the teacher" as a learning tool. I think that as a constant approach it is unfair.

 

I think that if you need to "find time" for income (and I've BTDT), you need to consider a different way.

[AvasMom]

I'm not really sure why you are getting your butt chewed here. I have a 14 year old who works nearly independently. It is age appropriate for a homeschooler who is not learning disabled. She sounds like she is being a bit lazy. Does she truly have a problem understanding the material or does she just not want to do it? Are you available for help if she needs it? I wouldn't present it as her needing to teach you though. I would just tell her it's time to start working toward independence.

[Joanne]

I'm not really sure why you are getting your butt chewed here. I have a 14 year old who works nearly independently. It is age appropriate for a homeschooler who is not learning disabled. She sounds like she is being a bit lazy. Does she truly have a problem understanding the material or does she just not want to do it? Are you available for help if she needs it? I wouldn't present it as her needing to teach you though. I would just tell her it's time to start working toward independence.

 

The skills involved in *learning*, *lesson planning*, and *teaching* an adult are too cumbersome and high level to have that as the expectation for an entire subject for a 14 year old (who is behind in addition).

[Cosmos]

I'm not really sure why you are getting your butt chewed here. I have a 14 year old who works nearly independently. It is age appropriate for a homeschooler who is not learning disabled. She sounds like she is being a bit lazy. Does she truly have a problem understanding the material or does she just not want to do it? Are you available for help if she needs it? I wouldn't present it as her needing to teach you though. I would just tell her it's time to start working toward independence.

 

I don't think anyone is "chewing her butt". Good heavens!

 

I think independent study is probably very reasonable here, as long as the child does not have any learning disabilities.

 

I disagree that asking her to "teach" the material is reasonable, unless she is enthusiastic about that method of demonstrating her knowledge.

[AvasMom]

The skills for independent learning require opening a book, reading, and doing the practice problems. My 14 year old seems to handle that ok. It seems like the problem everyone is having here is that you are hung up on the word teaching. My impression is that she wants her daughter to narrate back what she's learned. The OP didn't express that well but it seems fairly easy to figure out that's what she means. I could be totally off base but that's what I'm hearing.

[catz]

I think independent study is probably very reasonable here, as long as the child does not have any learning disabilities.

 

I disagree that asking her to "teach" the material is reasonable, unless she is enthusiastic about that method of demonstrating her knowledge.

 

:iagree: Teaching or demonstrating is a different skill set that understanding grammar. I would look for a more independent curriculum that is perhaps reading and work book based for her to follow and for you to check. If you want her to work on oral presentation skills, I would make that a separate project and not something she needs to do on an ongoing basis. Ultimately, I think if big changes are coming at home, it would definitely serve you both better if she had some say into the way she was learning at 14.

[Rebecca VA]

I understand what you mean. I see this often in 19th-century literature, where students did "recitations," meaning they pre-studied the lesson and then recited or explained it back to the teacher. It's not used often nowadays, but there's nothing wrong with it, as long as the child understands the material.

 

If she doesn't understand it, you need to be a "sage by her side" and work through it with her.

[nukeswife]

If you want her to be more independent in grammar I would look into Growing with Grammar, it's geared to have the student read the book (which is written to them) and then do the worksheets.

 

I don't think FLL is a good one to use if you want her to learn it on her own. If she's go the TM to read the lesson she also has the whole script for the answers, thus the need for you to have her essentially redo the whole lesson in order to teach it back to you so that you know she's actually doing the work.

 

Sounds like too much work to me.

[Julie in CA]

The method you've picked (proving knowledge by demonstrating the lesson to you) might not go over well, but there is no reason short of an outright learning disability that a 14 year old should not be able to work independently for most subjects.

 

Generally speaking, I've found ways for my olders to work independently for most things, and then I pick one or two subjects (such as poly sci, or philosophy, etc) where I think interaction is crucial.

 

We meet once a week on Monday mornings, and the kids each have a conference with me during which they present the work they've completed in the past week. We go over any areas that seem a little weak, and then I assign work for the week ahead.

 

For some days and some subjects, I will assign something like, "Since you've completed the reading for chapter X, read the chapter summary, go over the review questions, and then come see me for discussion". -Or maybe, "read the first 3 chapters of (novel title) and think about the characters and what motivated them to do what they did, then come see me and we'll talk about it."

 

I don't view this as a way for me to have more time for other things, though that is a happy side-effect. I view this as a way to train them to think independently, to monitor and plan their usage of time, and to help them learn that their education is their responsibility. I'd like to think I'm training them to see education as a lifetime pursuit, and one that they know how to accomplish on their own.

 

I have, on occasion, had older kids tutor younger kids for one subject or another, because I think it's good for both of them, but only after the older kid has a good grasp of the material themselves.

[DarlaS]

The skills involved in *learning*, *lesson planning*, and *teaching* an adult are too cumbersome and high level to have that as the expectation for an entire subject for a 14 year old (who is behind in addition).

 

If I ask my student to explain something to me, I just want him to tell me how he would solve a particular equation etc. I'm not asking him to stay up late researching curriculum to teach me algebra.

 

I kind of figured she had something like that in mind. Classical educators expect narrations from 6 year old students, so this is not unreasonable.

 

However, if you've not made a habit of this in the past, it might be a little tough to start now due to her age. She might really balk and you'll need to decide if it's really the best way to get the result you want.

[Joanne]

If I ask my student to explain something to me, I just want him to tell me how he would solve a particular equation etc. I'm not asking him to stay up late researching curriculum to teach me algebra.

 

I kind of figured she had something like that in mind. Classical educators expect narrations from 6 year old students, so this is not unreasonable.

 

.

 

Narrations are simple summaries of reading or oral stories. I did tons of that with my kids. It's not the same thing as the expectation of teaching *grammar*.

 

The skills involved in teaching grammar are an entirely different skill set. I think expecting a behind student who is losing a previous level of interaction is counterproductive and very possibly unfair.

[AvasMom]

If I ask my student to explain something to me, I just want him to tell me how he would solve a particular equation etc. I'm not asking him to stay up late researching curriculum to teach me algebra.

 

 

 

:iagree: Narrating back the grammar taught in FLL 4 is not that complicated.

[AvasMom]

Narrations are simple summaries of reading or oral stories. I did tons of that with my kids. It's not the same thing as the expectation of teaching *grammar*.

 

The skills involved in teaching grammar are an entirely different skill set. I think expecting a behind student who is losing a previous level of interaction is counterproductive and very possibly unfair.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/store/media/downloads/pdfsamples/fll4sample.pdf Can you specify which of these lessons you think is too difficult for a 14 year old to explain back after reading? I'm honestly confused.

[Mynyel]

OK Example... I went ahead and did what I said I was going to do today and have her "teach" me... this is how it went and how I expected it to be.

 

She read a couple lessons (we have been going through 2-3 lessons a day).

I asked her.. What did you learn?

She went to the book, opened it... went to the board, wrote the sentence down and demonstrated what she learned.

It was diagramming a sentence. She told me where the words go, I asked why, she told me why.

I corrected her on one thing.

She was done, she demonstrated what she learned.

 

This took me about half the time than when *I* am standing at the board and teaching her. She glazes over more. When *she* is the one at the board she pays attention *A LOT* more and thus retains and I *know* she is learning it. Does that make sense?

 

In the end she was actually enthusiastic in showing me what she learned.

 

I still think there was a lot of confusion because I used the word teach. I had the idea in my head an y'all are supposed to be psychic. She doesn't need to "teach" me since I know it before she does :)

 

I have noticed with both my kids when they can "teach" me (or each other when they are feeling benevolent towards each other:glare:) what they have learned it sticks better and they understand better. This is what I meant.

 

It worked so I think we will try it a little longer and see how she does.

[Joanne]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/store/media/downloads/pdfsamples/fll4sample.pdf Can you specify which of these lessons you think is too difficult for a 14 year old to explain back after reading? I'm honestly confused.

 

Tiffany, I'm over it. Really. My kids are this age and older, and 75% of the kids I teach are older than this. You have a different perspective on this issue. I'm certainly not in the mood to detail-defend my response to the OP.

 

The OP is using a teaching technique in response to her need to find time, and to assist a behind child in catching up. She posted for feedback. I gave mine.

 

The combination of expecting a child to teach an entire subject with a reluctant to do so child = a change of plans to me.

 

Jeez.

[Joanne]

In the end she was actually enthusiastic in showing me what she learned.

 

.

 

This is not what you indicated when you posted for feedback. :confused:

[Mynyel]

This is not what you indicated when you posted for feedback. :confused:

 

 

Yea I know... that was because when I initially told her about it she was less than enthusiastic to say the least. Which was why I said "In the end..." in my last post. :)

 

I didn't really expect this post to be such a hot button issue!

 

I'll think twice before asking something like this again! :)

[AvasMom]

Tiffany, I'm over it. Really. My kids are this age and older, and 75% of the kids I teach are older than this. You have a different perspective on this issue. I'm certainly not in the mood to detail-defend my response to the OP.

 

The OP is using a teaching technique in response to her need to find time, and to assist a behind child in catching up. She posted for feedback. I gave mine.

 

The combination of expecting a child to teach an entire subject with a reluctant to do so child = a change of plans to me.

 

Jeez.

 

There's really no need to get defensive. You chose to engage in a discussion. Jeez indeed.

[AvasMom]

Yea I know... that was because when I initially told her about it she was less than enthusiastic to say the least. Which was why I said "In the end..." in my last post. :)

 

I didn't really expect this post to be such a hot button issue!

 

I'll think twice before asking something like this again! :)

 

Your post and question were fine. ;)

[AvasMom]

OK Example... I went ahead and did what I said I was going to do today and have her "teach" me... this is how it went and how I expected it to be.

 

She read a couple lessons (we have been going through 2-3 lessons a day).

I asked her.. What did you learn?

She went to the book, opened it... went to the board, wrote the sentence down and demonstrated what she learned.

It was diagramming a sentence. She told me where the words go, I asked why, she told me why.

I corrected her on one thing.

She was done, she demonstrated what she learned.

 

This took me about half the time than when *I* am standing at the board and teaching her. She glazes over more. When *she* is the one at the board she pays attention *A LOT* more and thus retains and I *know* she is learning it. Does that make sense?

 

In the end she was actually enthusiastic in showing me what she learned.

 

I still think there was a lot of confusion because I used the word teach. I had the idea in my head an y'all are supposed to be psychic. She doesn't need to "teach" me since I know it before she does :)

 

I have noticed with both my kids when they can "teach" me (or each other when they are feeling benevolent towards each other:glare:) what they have learned it sticks better and they understand better. This is what I meant.

 

It worked so I think we will try it a little longer and see how she does.

 

Glad it ended up working well! You know her best and usually a mother's instinct is spot on. Just because they get an attitude about something doesn't mean it's still not good for them.

[SonshineLearner]

I was homeschooled and wouldn't have cared to do this. I would have been angry and unamused... :(

[GingerPoppy]

OK Example... I went ahead and did what I said I was going to do today and have her "teach" me... this is how it went and how I expected it to be.

 

She read a couple lessons (we have been going through 2-3 lessons a day).

I asked her.. What did you learn?

She went to the book, opened it... went to the board, wrote the sentence down and demonstrated what she learned.

It was diagramming a sentence. She told me where the words go, I asked why, she told me why.

I corrected her on one thing.

She was done, she demonstrated what she learned.

 

This took me about half the time than when *I* am standing at the board and teaching her. She glazes over more. When *she* is the one at the board she pays attention *A LOT* more and thus retains and I *know* she is learning it. Does that make sense?

 

In the end she was actually enthusiastic in showing me what she learned.

 

I still think there was a lot of confusion because I used the word teach. I had the idea in my head an y'all are supposed to be psychic. She doesn't need to "teach" me since I know it before she does :)

 

I have noticed with both my kids when they can "teach" me (or each other when they are feeling benevolent towards each other:glare:) what they have learned it sticks better and they understand better. This is what I meant.

 

It worked so I think we will try it a little longer and see how she does.

I think it's a great idea. Not a punishment at all, but rather a learning technique. And you're right--they tend to "glaze over" less when they have to be actively explaining, and therefore understanding, the concepts.

[MedicMom]

I actually think it's a pretty good learning technique. If you've been standing at the board trying to teach your 14 y/o, she may have just been bored and needed more independent work and then interaction with you. I would have been incredibly bored at that age if someone was going over grammar concepts piece by piece instead of just letting me study and then demonstrate what I had learned.

 

I was homeschooled and was working pretty much independently at 14 except for where discussion was necessary. If I had questions on something, I knew where my mom was to ask or I got online and found out. Independence was a pretty valuable skill set when I went to college.

[ThisIsTheDay]

I have been trying to find a job. I have found a couple things online that I can make a little money with to almost break even but it take a ginormous amount of time.

 

So, I told dd14 that she needs to start teaching me grammar instead of me teaching her.

 

We are only talking FLL 4. We are slamming through it to get her up to speed.

 

We you'd think I asked her to step on a fat bug barefoot. She is hemming and hawing and frowning and just has a bit :glare: of an attitude.

 

Is this really unreasonable of me? She can handle it with her workload. She has plenty of time to do things.

 

What says the Hive?

 

PS: I threatened her with the same thing in math. Think I should add that too?? :)

 

I only read through the first page of responses, but I was surprised by so many people against it.

 

I understand that the best way to learn something can be to teach it to someone else. Since she is trying to catch up, perhaps she's intimidated at trying to learn it on her own and then teach it to you. Did you ask her why she's reluctant?

 

At age 13, my dd was going through big hormonal/emotional growth. It's such a fragile age. Schoolwork was sometimes the only part of the day that we had the opportunity to come together. I began working outside the home, and the break she had from me was beneficial for her. Another possibility is that your dd is afraid she'll be left to learn other subjects on her own.

 

I don't think it's a bad idea at all, but you want to be sure it's the best idea for your family at this time. Although you are pressed for time, it might be more effective for now if you teach it to her and then she teaches it back to you a day, a few days, or a week later so that you can judge her retention.