LOF

[pbb119]

I am about to purchase the elementary set of LOF blindly, in that I have only read through the online samples and not actually held or read a real copy. I don't even know anyone who uses it! But from what I have seen, it looks fantastic. So, before I plunk down $150 for the set, is it as totally amazing as it looks?? What are your experiences with it? And if I have a rising 4th grader, should I backtrack some or go straight to buying the fractions book and decimals and percents book? It seems that in every book there is a little something that he did not do or could learn something from. Maybe he should go through them quickly, maybe as summer work (he read the sample lessons and CANNOT wait to start them).

 

Thanks!

[tiffanieh]

I don't have an answer for you, but I was just looking at LOF myself for my soon to be 5th grader and would love to hear other's responses.

[Dolphin]

We started LOF this year with my 4th grade son. I have been playing Math catch up with him ever since I pulled him from school. We started with Apples, he is doing 2 lessons a day and flying through them. He loves it. We do use it as a supplement to TT. We have been really happy with it and have just ordered dog and whatever the e book is from Horrible Ray.

[NittanyJen]

jmja,

 

Yes, they are terrific. They will most probably make your kids love math :). And take good care of them; they retain a high resale value, or if for some reason they don't work out, the author has a generous refund policy if you really don't end up using them but they are still in new condition.

 

As to your fourth grader, the guideline for starting Fractions is mastery of the basics through long division. I would not skimp on that one if he is to work Fractions independently as the author intends. If he has gotten that far, then go for it! But maybe let him pick up the other books and read them if he wants :). Fred is just darn fun, too :). My 11YO has worked through Fractions, Decimals and Percents, Pre-Algebra with Biology, and most of Pre-Algebra with Economics. I tested him with work from a classic text (Dolciani) and a current "flavor of the month" popular text that everyone is ooh-ing and aaah-ing over (Art of Problem Solving) and he has found the work in both a breeze after doing Fred, so done properly and attentively, it is really good stuff.

 

Tiffanieh, I hope the second paragraph above helps you out as well. Fred is kind of like a full course meal-- if you gobble it up fast, you probably won't remember what you ate or what it even tasted like. But if you slow down during the actual math parts and pay attention to what you are doing, there is an incredible amount of mathematical understanding to be found there. If you find your student is blasting through the book ("Gee, I just read Fractions in a week!") I would make him or her start over and do it correctly. Yes, I understand bright kids. My husband and I are both in the G&T category, as are both of my kids. Math is my husband's professional field and I'm no slouch in it myself. I still think if you read through it without paying attention, you can't complain later about not retaining much and then blame the book :).

 

With Fred, enjoy the story at full-speed ahead. Slow down and enjoy the math at digest-your-dinner speed, and all should be well!

 

Jen

[pbb119]

Jen ~

 

Thank you!! Your input is soooo helpful!

[Vida Winter]

If you didn't know, you can get the books with free shipping from the z twist book site. We have been getting the books two at a time. I'm not sure if you get a big discount by getting the whole set at once, but you may want to spread out the purchase like we did.

[pbb119]

If you didn't know, you can get the books with free shipping from the z twist book site. We have been getting the books two at a time. I'm not sure if you get a big discount by getting the whole set at once, but you may want to spread out the purchase like we did.

 

Thanks! I didn't know that. I found the set at Exodus Books for $144 w/$4.95 shipping, so about $15/book that way vs. $16, so not too much of a savings, but I have it in my book budget for next year, so I'd rather save the $10 now. But the ztwist is great to know b/c Exodus does not carry all the books, and I will have to purchase Fractions and Decimals & Percents also, so will definitely be getting them from ztwist! Thanks for sharing!

[Chrysalis Academy]

I was in the same boat as you are when I started hsing my 4th grader in November. I decided to start with Apples and work through the elementary series, and it was the right choice. DD adores Fred, it is her fun math, and we do two chapters a day, and do all the problems and discuss it and really try to savor it, and we have still made it to Honey after less than 5 months. Yes, the computation is review, but you aren't doing Fred for the computation.

 

And here is the really great part: DD just asked to start working through Fractions on her own, while we finish the Elementary series together. This is a kid who cried when I tried to have her do math alone when she first came home!! But she gets Fred, and wants to take on the challenge of doing Fractions "right" (i.e., as intended - the student works independently once they get to Fractions.

 

I am really happy with the effect Fred has had on her attitude, love, and enjoyment of math. She has learned a lot of concepts I didn't learn till college (if then!) and will not be a bit intimidated by algebra, geometry, calculus, or anything else.

 

Two things you ought to be aware of: Preread the last half of Dogs before you read it aloud with your kids. And the end of Goldfish/beginning of Honey transition was a bit abrupt and brutal - it actually disturbed me more than the Dogs thing. Just be aware that the author has a somewhat quirky sense of humor, and some people (parents and kids) really love it, and some people dislike it intensely. So I guess if it were me, I might buy just one or two of the books to make sure they click with you before plunking down the $$ for the whole set.

 

Although, they do resell well.

 

Have fun with Fred!

[CroppinIt]

We started with Apples last year with all three kids during read-aloud time. Dd12, who hates math with a passion, didn't want to miss the storylines. :lol: We're in Goldfish now.

 

We have loved them all, and yes, the younger kids are learning stuff. We do occasionally have to supplement with another curriculum just because we needed a little extra explanation. (We use MUS, since we switched from that and had the videos on hand already, but I'm guessing you could use anything.)

 

This is one of the criticisms I see regularly about Fred: it moves very quickly and doesn't have a lot of explanations all the time. It seems that the elementary series could have the same flaw. It's not a real problem for us, though.

[BatmansWife]

We have A - D (we just started C) and will be ordering the rest soon. My dd *loves* them. We read one chapter before bed a couple times a week. I guess what's most important is that *she* loves them. For me......I think they are just so-so (I think some of the storyline is plain weird, and I got a little annoyed that there were so many typos in B....so far one in C, but we just started).

[BatmansWife]

I was in the same boat as you are when I started hsing my 4th grader in November. I decided to start with Apples and work through the elementary series, and it was the right choice. DD adores Fred, it is her fun math, and we do two chapters a day, and do all the problems and discuss it and really try to savor it, and we have still made it to Honey after less than 5 months. Yes, the computation is review, but you aren't doing Fred for the computation.

 

And here is the really great part: DD just asked to start working through Fractions on her own, while we finish the Elementary series together. This is a kid who cried when I tried to have her do math alone when she first came home!! But she gets Fred, and wants to take on the challenge of doing Fractions "right" (i.e., as intended - the student works independently once they get to Fractions.

 

I am really happy with the effect Fred has had on her attitude, love, and enjoyment of math. She has learned a lot of concepts I didn't learn till college (if then!) and will not be a bit intimidated by algebra, geometry, calculus, or anything else.

 

Two things you ought to be aware of: Preread the last half of Dogs before you read it aloud with your kids. And the end of Goldfish/beginning of Honey transition was a bit abrupt and brutal - it actually disturbed me more than the Dogs thing. Just be aware that the author has a somewhat quirky sense of humor, and some people (parents and kids) really love it, and some people dislike it intensely. So I guess if it were me, I might buy just one or two of the books to make sure they click with you before plunking down the $$ for the whole set.

 

Although, they do resell well.

 

Have fun with Fred!

 

Now the Dogs book comes with a sticker on the last page to explain that all the dogs are saved.

 

:iagree: about the quirky sense of humor. We just started C and so far I really don't get why the two maintenance men, who were brothers, had to die in B. After they were gone, nobody even mentioned them. Fred and his friends were just talking to them...and then it was like no big deal that the bell tower killed them...let's go get a donut (or whatever it was). Also, we just read last night about Fred running to the 24 hour heater store at 2:30 a.m. and how the lady took his $21 and took an old heater, erased the $5, and marked it as $21. My dd looked at me and said, "Well that was rather rude." To me, I sometimes sit there thinking.......why?? :confused:

[NittanyJen]

Now the Dogs book comes with a sticker on the last page to explain that all the dogs are saved.

 

:iagree: about the quirky sense of humor. We just started C and so far I really don't get why the two maintenance men, who were brothers, had to die in B. After they were gone, nobody even mentioned them. Fred and his friends were just talking to them...and then it was like no big deal that the bell tower killed them...let's go get a donut (or whatever it was). Also, we just read last night about Fred running to the 24 hour heater store at 2:30 a.m. and how the lady took his $21 and took an old heater, erased the $5, and marked it as $21. My dd looked at me and said, "Well that was rather rude." To me, I sometimes sit there thinking.......why?? :confused:

 

Fred is about more than math. Math happens in Fred's life. The elementary series is meant to be read with and discussed with a grown-up or more experienced sibling, and you can have any conversation you like about that scene, depending upon the age and maturity level of your child. Fred will meet the Coalbacks again and again throughout the series (and the upper series) just as Spiderman, Batman, and all great heroes have their equally famous villain nemesis types to oppose them. It wasn't actually random or just weird humor.

 

If anything bugs me, it is that the author seems to get kind of defensive (read extremely) in both his introductions and on his website in certain places. But I ignore that, because I love the math :).

[Pen]

I got the first books separately from Z-twist, and then knowing I liked them, got others from Rainbow to help make up my minimum for free shipping there.

 

I am trying to make sense of these numbers, though. I think there are 9 elementary books total. ??? @ $16 each that would be $144 with no shipping if bought individually via Z-twist, or if purchased along with other things such as to have no shipping via Rainbow ... so how does the set with shipping added help? Is my math wrong, or are there more books, or???

 

As to the substance, we went back to LOF Apples: the math part became mental math, even though it says write it out...I am hoping that by Fractions this will change, but mental math practice is also useful. We just like the story and the characters, and I like some of the other teaching that happens, things like pointing out that everyone has something he or she can do in life, and things about being a good person, and so on.

 

As PP put it, Fred is more than just math.

[NittanyJen]

There are 10 books-- apples through Jellybeans.

 

As a fan of Singapore Math myself, I too find the lack of mental math to be one thing I miss in Fred.

[AimeeM]

You have die hard supporters for LOF; and then you have those like me. I think they are silly. Cute storybooks - not much more.

 

Total bust with my 10 year old.

[BatmansWife]

You have die hard supporters for LOF; and then you have those like me. I think they are silly. Cute storybooks - not much more.

 

Total bust with my 10 year old.

 

:iagree:, except for the total bust part. I also think they are just cute (but sometimes odd) storybooks. If my dd gets some math out of them (and she has) and some interesting other facts (which she has), then that's great. But, I don't think they are totally amazing and super awesome (Mr. Schmidt's claim on the back of the book that these books have "more math in Life of Fred than in any other home schooling curriculum that we know of"......uh, no...not even close. Have they looked at any other home schooling math curriculum to compare??). Unfortunately if you buy the entire set right away and then find they are a bust......well, that was an expensive discovery.

Edited April 26, 2012 by ~AprilMay~

[Vanchy]

We use MUS this year, and I have a plan to use it next year too. I would like to supplement MUS with LOF. What do you think how that will work?

[Chrysalis Academy]

There are 10 books-- apples through Jellybeans.

 

As a fan of Singapore Math myself, I too find the lack of mental math to be one thing I miss in Fred.

 

I have my 4th grader do all of the "row of practice" problems mentally, and remind her to use the tools for mental math taught in MM - that has been great. It means that we get mental math practice almost every day, in a relatively painless and fun way. To me that was a big plus with some of the later elementary books - I can't remember exactly where the row of practice feature kicks in, but that's how we've handled it.

[NittanyJen]

: home schooling curriculum that we know of"......uh, no...not even close. Have they looked at any other home schooling math curriculum to compare??). Unfortunately if you buy the entire set right away and then find they are a bust......well, that was an expensive discovery. [/color][/size][/font]

 

On his website he does a comparison with Saxon, so I am guessing the answer would be yes. He likely uses Saxon, because at the time he started Fred, it was among the more commonly mentioned.

 

As a scientist and married to a mathematician, and a tutor to those who arrive at university bursting with pride at their high school education and then crash and burn (including honors and AP credits) I have seen and evaluated public and private as well as several homeschool curricula myself, and yes, Fred stands with, and in many cases above, the best, for the motivated student, for whom the integrated story approach is a good fit. My son would not touch Beast Academy with a 10-foot pole, because the comic format was so disorganized (for his brain type) it left him wondering if he had even read anything at all; yet he is gifted in math without questiion. That does not mean BA is a bad program; it means we use something else more suited to how he learns (even the single-color US Singapore illustrations bug him a bit, but he deals; Singapore and Fred are his perfect fit).

 

This is why we are lucky to have many good choices to select from in the HS world. Now, if only we could improve the secular science offerings... they exist, but are a hodgepodge!

[mamaeast]

I have been hearing so much about LoF lately. And, really, none of it has been bad. I will have a 4th grader next year who really dislikes math, but loves to read. I am planning to use both LoF and Singapore with him. We are planning to start at the beginning because I am anal and like to start things at the beginning. :) I will also have a first grade who loves math, and I am planning to do the same with him. I'm hoping the story line will make the eldest "forget" that it's math and help him with some of the things he missed before I brought him home.

[EKS]

It is not as amazing as it looks.

 

Frankly, Life of Fred Fractions is the WORST math book I've ever used and Decimals and the Prealgebras aren't far behind. It essentially *never* explains the why of anything. There is not enough practice to ensure fluency. I cannot recommend Life of Fred as anything other than a fun supplement.

 

That said, my son loves Fred and we are going to run the LoF Algebra I book a bit behind his Algebra I class in school next year, just for fun.

[pbb119]

Thanks for all the responses! I had already purchased Harcourt math student text and workbook, and was going to return it to Amazon. I think I am going to keep it, go ahead and order a few of the LOF, and supplement or use jointly when and if possible.

 

This has been really helpful! :)

[Corraleno]

Frankly, Life of Fred Fractions is the WORST math book I've ever used and Decimals and the Prealgebras aren't far behind. It essentially *never* explains the why of anything. There is not enough practice to ensure fluency. I cannot recommend Life of Fred as anything other than a fun supplement.

Some kids need a lot of explicit conceptual explanation, while others pick up concepts easily and intuitively; some kids need tons of practice problems to really cement the ideas, while others are turned off by too much repetition and review. For some kids LOF would undoubtedly be the worst program ever — just as Saxon would be the worst program ever for my whole-to-parts kid. Life of Fred Fractions, OTOH, was perfect for him and really helped him "get" fractions. For kids who need extra practice, there are "Companion" books for Alg I, Alg II, and Trig, and there's even a new LOF book called Zillions of Practice Problems for Beginning Algebra, for those who want even more practice.

 

Mr. Schmidt's claim on the back of the book that these books have "more math in Life of Fred than in any other home schooling curriculum that we know of"......uh, no...not even close. Have they looked at any other home schooling math curriculum to compare??

Actually, the Fred books do include many topics that are not covered in standard math programs. Even just flipping through the elementary books, I can see that there are many topics in there that are not covered by any elementary curriculum that I've seen — homeschool or public school. And IMHO the HS books certainly cover more topics in greater depth than typical "homeschool math programs" like MUS and TT. From the LOF website, here is a list of topics included in LoF Adv. Algebra that are not covered in Saxon Alg II:

1. Permutations

2. Matrices

3. Linear programming

4. Series

5. Sigma notation

6. Sequences

7. Combinations

8. Pascal's triangle

9. Math induction

10. Partial fractions---needed in calculus

11. Graphing in three dimensions

12. Change-of-base rule for logarithms

 

 

As a scientist and married to a mathematician ... I have seen and evaluated public and private as well as several homeschool curricula myself, and yes, Fred stands with, and in many cases above, the best, for the motivated student, for whom the integrated story approach is a good fit.

:iagree:

I think a lot of people just see a silly story book that doesn't look anything like a "real" math text, so they think it's lightweight — it's not. The approach is not for everyone, but the math is definitely there. Earlier this year, DS took an online class from a Russian mathematician who highly recommends LOF (and he does not have a high opinion of US math programs in general). My DH is in a STEM field, and he's also a big Fred fan — in fact, all four of us are proud owners of Fred tee-shirts. :D

 

Jackie

[pie]

where did you get Fred T-shirts? :bigear:

thanks,

Pie

[rdj2027]

I ordered two books because the excerpts looked promising but was disappointed. My children and I stumbled over the way the books are written rather than the math. I.e. in "Honey" Fred deals with a leaking fish tank and all of a sudden there is a reference to the many colors of the plants. No plants were mentioned before so for my 3rd grader that was a leap in assumption. As said, the tank leaked and Fred threw it in the dumpster; we had another discussion about what happened to the fish which must have surely died without water since the tank was empty. From there it goes to Fred running up stairs two at a time wishing he was tall like Alexander. My daughter couldn't figure out what running up the stairs had to do with how tall his friend was.

I think it definitely depends on your children but mine tend to take things very literal and we spent too much time on interpreting the story rather than doing the math.

[SorrelZG]

I ordered two books because the excerpts looked promising but was disappointed. My children and I stumbled over the way the books are written rather than the math. I.e. in "Honey" Fred deals with a leaking fish tank and all of a sudden there is a reference to the many colors of the plants. No plants were mentioned before so for my 3rd grader that was a leap in assumption. As said, the tank leaked and Fred threw it in the dumpster; we had another discussion about what happened to the fish which must have surely died without water since the tank was empty. From there it goes to Fred running up stairs two at a time wishing he was tall like Alexander. My daughter couldn't figure out what running up the stairs had to do with how tall his friend was.

I think it definitely depends on your children but mine tend to take things very literal and we spent too much time on interpreting the story rather than doing the math.

 

Randomly, just fyi because I'm sitting here drinking bad coffee, Fred coveting Alexander's height and how that relates to climbing stairs is from one of the early books (he'd be able to take more steps at a time if his legs were longer).

[Donna T.]

where did you get Fred T-shirts? :bigear:

thanks,

Pie

 

I want one!! :bigear:

[Stellalarella]

Some kids need a lot of explicit conceptual explanation, while others pick up concepts easily and intuitively; some kids need tons of practice problems to really cement the ideas, while others are turned off by too much repetition and review. For some kids LOF would undoubtedly be the worst program ever — just as Saxon would be the worst program ever for my whole-to-parts kid. Life of Fred Fractions, OTOH, was perfect for him and really helped him "get" fractions. For kids who need extra practice, there are "Companion" books for Alg I, Alg II, and Trig, and there's even a new LOF book called Zillions of Practice Problems for Beginning Algebra, for those who want even more practice.

 

 

Actually, the Fred books do include many topics that are not covered in standard math programs. Even just flipping through the elementary books, I can see that there are many topics in there that are not covered by any elementary curriculum that I've seen — homeschool or public school. And IMHO the HS books certainly cover more topics in greater depth than typical "homeschool math programs" like MUS and TT. From the LOF website, here is a list of topics included in LoF Adv. Algebra that are not covered in Saxon Alg II:

1. Permutations

2. Matrices

3. Linear programming

4. Series

5. Sigma notation

6. Sequences

7. Combinations

8. Pascal's triangle

9. Math induction

10. Partial fractions---needed in calculus

11. Graphing in three dimensions

12. Change-of-base rule for logarithms

 

 

 

:iagree:

I think a lot of people just see a silly story book that doesn't look anything like a "real" math text, so they think it's lightweight — it's not. The approach is not for everyone, but the math is definitely there. Earlier this year, DS took an online class from a Russian mathematician who highly recommends LOF (and he does not have a high opinion of US math programs in general). My DH is in a STEM field, and he's also a big Fred fan — in fact, all four of us are proud owners of Fred tee-shirts. :D

 

Jackie

:iagree: I also think there are a lot of math concepts in LOF. I was pretty amazed at what my children were covering this year in LOF.

 

The basic books just don't have zillions of problems to compute.

 

 

 

Here's the deal: If you order from ZTWIST you can get free shipping and also a money-back guarantee if LOF is not for you. For heaven's sake--don't order a whole set, sight unseen! Try one or two!

[besroma]

Randomly, just fyi because I'm sitting here drinking bad coffee, Fred coveting Alexander's height and how that relates to climbing stairs is from one of the early books (he'd be able to take more steps at a time if his legs were longer).

 

:lol:

[NittanyJen]

Hooray on the T-shirts!

 

Now, when can we impatient ones get a preview of the physics book? Will there be a more advanced one coming out later for more advanced math students? Sometime next summer would be just about perfect...

[SunnyDays]

Hooray on the T-shirts!

 

Now, when can we impatient ones get a preview of the physics book? Will there be a more advanced one coming out later for more advanced math students? Sometime next summer would be just about perfect...

 

 

T-shirts and physics books... this is truly one stop shopping!! :D

 

Signed,

Another Fred fan who wants a preview of the Physics book!!

[mdefields]

A total bust with my 9 yr old dd as well. I read the sample chapter to her and she said, "That's just dumb." So make sure your child likes the sample before buying. It doesn't work with all children.

 

We use Math Mammoth and she LOVES it! Every child is different.

[pantone]

We've been having good luck with it over here!

 

My DD was understanding exactly ZERO of the "Everyday Mathematics" curriculum at her school and bursting into tears at the mere mention of math. She added numbers randomly and was blind to place value...71 and 17 were basically the same to her.

 

We went from that to a child who BEGGED to do math first thing in the morning. (And definitely do the game "Questions" in the car. Man, they LOVE Questions!!)

 

Now my son offers a cautionary tale to the program; he was brought up on the K12.com math curriculum, and jumped into Fractions after we did long division. The author structures the higher math questions in such a way that he uses lower numbers in the heart of the program, but when you get to a bridge, he uses such high numbers as to be ridiculous. This is to ensure (my math-degreeed spouse points out) that the student understands the underlying concept and can apply it to Very Large Numbers.

 

DS10 can get through a basic math curriculum on multiplication because he adds. Like a calculator. And running up against Fred, you will learn quite quickly whether or not your kid understands the underlying foundation of "What is addition? What is multiplication?"

 

Mine does NOT, even though he appeared to have (based on previous performance in different programs). We're having to go back now and reinforce both repeated addition vs. multiplication (and the application thereof) as well as the art of word problems. We're dissecting a few Kumon workbooks to accomplish this and hope to have it remediated pretty soon. But you'll find that weak spots have a hard time hiding behind Fred. Now we're backing the fifth grader up to third grade multiplication and division so he'll stop trying to use repeated addition to solve EVERYTHING. (How many 148s can go into 2,000,000? You can't sit there and start adding 148+148+148...are we to two million yet?)

[Guest aprildawn]

My kids are really loving it.We have read apples,butterflies and half of cats.I need to list apples and butterflies on craigslist so i can order dogs.My kids are 7 and 9.My 7 year old loves to draw Fred animals the way he draws them in the books.

[besroma]

My kids love them! I have multiple ages, and each one has claimed "their volume." I have a hard time keeping them on the shelves. :D

[Susan in TN]

Some kids need a lot of explicit conceptual explanation, while others pick up concepts easily and intuitively; some kids need tons of practice problems to really cement the ideas, while others are turned off by too much repetition and review. For some kids LOF would undoubtedly be the worst program ever — just as Saxon would be the worst program ever for my whole-to-parts kid. Life of Fred Fractions, OTOH, was perfect for him and really helped him "get" fractions. For kids who need extra practice, there are "Companion" books for Alg I, Alg II, and Trig, and there's even a new LOF book called Zillions of Practice Problems for Beginning Algebra, for those who want even more practice.

 

 

Jackie

 

This was my dd - she just floundered in math. So I gave decimals/fractions a try and she loved it. She still had to work, but it made sense to her and she kept at it because she enjoyed it. Last year she did the 2 pre-algebras. This year I let her look over a couple of algebra I texts - Lials, Jacobs, and LoF and she chose LoF hands down. We use the Home Companion and have Zillions on hand if she needs it.