Dmmetler Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 My DD completed her fantasy-themed decorated Easter basket and a story to go with it (about a dragon hiding her special eggs for her friends to find each Spring) for a little local contest. One of my neighbors,with a similar aged child, commented that her DC might as well not enter, because it "Wasn't fair" that he'd have to compete against DD since she's "not really" a 2nd grader.:001_huh: Uh...she's 7. If anything, she's "not really" a 2nd grader because she's younger than other 2nd graders due to being grade skipped when still in PS. It's not DD's fault that she writes better than other kids her age, and it's still up to the judges-it's an Easter Basket contest with a description/explanation, not a writing contest! I gave a response to the effect that I'd enjoy seeing what her DS came up with. Anyone have similar comments made about their children? How do you respond?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 It is an Easter basket contest for second graders and it seems pretty sad if anyone is going to work up a head of steam over something so silly. In general my approach would be to be low key about acceleration or gifted stuff. You can't stop people from noticing but talking about it very little gives them less ammo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 .. that one boy always wins the running races. He's really good. No one else gets a look in. I don't think he should be allowed to run..... I usually sidestep these questions, turning it towards involvement/enjoyment rather than achievement. Something like, "I'm sure all the kids will have fun." Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Anyone have similar comments made about their children? How do you respond?? I don't think I would respond at all! Who cares so much about winning an Easter basket contest that they wouldn't enter if they knew there were better ones? I mean it's really just supposed to be fun, right?? sheesh... Now if you were talking about something academic, of the "put this on your resume" variety (and sure, I guess there are those that would put "2nd grade - won Easter basket contest" on their resume, but we'll assume that's not even on the table...) I mean something like science fairs, math exams, essay contests, spelling bees.... that sort of thing. In those cases, I aim to to keep DS at a level where he could lose. Really, what I think is impressive on the college applications isn't the "1st place elementary division" as much as the "look at this project I did, which was seriously my best work possible, even though it came in 3rd in a division I was young for" But someone who gets bent out of shape over an Easter basket contest is just going to get a raised eyebrow from me... I don't think there is an appropriate answer to that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor_dad Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I don't think I would respond at all! Who cares so much about winning an Easter basket contest that they wouldn't enter if they knew there were better ones? I mean it's really just supposed to be fun, right?? sheesh... Now if you were talking about something academic, of the "put this on your resume" variety (and sure, I guess there are those that would put "2nd grade - won Easter basket contest" on their resume, but we'll assume that's not even on the table...) I mean something like science fairs, math exams, essay contests, spelling bees.... that sort of thing. In those cases, I aim to to keep DS at a level where he could lose. Sooner or later everyone has to get used to it. I grew up in NC and every math contest from middle school on was won by Lenny Ng. People just dealt with the fact that we had a future IMO gold medalist and poster child for radical acceleration in our backyard. In the real world everyone is going to get beat by people who are smarter, work harder, are more athletic, or otherwise better matched to a particular contest. You just need to help your kid work up to their potential and not worry too much about results. Might as well get used to ignoring those insecure parents early... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Really, what I think is impressive on the college applications isn't the "1st place elementary division" as much as the "look at this project I did, which was seriously my best work possible, even though it came in 3rd in a division I was young for" Calvin took some high school exams early. I was told specifically by a university entrance advisor that he would only be well thought of if he got stellar marks. Otherwise, they would just see it as a 'bad mark', whatever the age he was when he took it. After all, if he gets a 'B' at twelve, how is the college to compare him with someone who gets an 'A+' at sixteen? Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smartones Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 :iagree: Colleges look for the best. When sifting through mounds of applications with no faces attached, they're not going to take the time to look at Little Johnny's age. They want to see who has the highest scores & awards. In a competitive environment, I keep my kids with age peers. In an academic environment, I keep them at an accelerated level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 :iagree: Colleges look for the best. When sifting through mounds of applications with no faces attached, they're not going to take the time to look at Little Johnny's age. They want to see who has the highest scores & awards. In a competitive environment, I keep my kids with age peers. In an academic environment, I keep them at an accelerated level. I think it also depends on the kind of competition. In high level competitions, ALL the kids are accelerated. You don't have high school level projects winning at the ISEF or JSHS. You don't have kids spelling on a middle school level winning at the National Spelling Bee. Entering early is going to put most kids, even extremely accelerated/gifted ones who are talented in the area and have put in a lot of time preparing, at a disadvantage, because they'll be competing against extremely accelerated/gifted ones who are talented in the area and have spent several MORE years preparing. In local only, silly little competitions, I don't see it as a big deal either way. Our county fair has a penmanship contest, and last year DD's entry was bumped to the older age group simply because she wrote in cursive and hers was the only entry in the younger age group that was in cursive, so they didn't feel they could judge it adequately. Not surprisingly, she lost :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Calvin took some high school exams early. I was told specifically by a university entrance advisor that he would only be well thought of if he got stellar marks. Otherwise, they would just see it as a 'bad mark', whatever the age he was when he took it. After all, if he gets a 'B' at twelve, how is the college to compare him with someone who gets an 'A+' at sixteen? Laura I'm not saying throw them in where they'll crash and burn, but make sure that it takes their best work to win (or get an A). And then expect their best work. Taking high school exams early is a good example -- there wouldn't be any point in waiting until they were really trivial - do them as soon as you can reasonably expect the A with effort, and then put in the effort. If I left DS in his age grade for science competitions, he'd have been putting some serious statistical analysis (linear and polynomial regressions, tests of significance, multivariable analysis) against third graders. That wouldn't have been fair, and what's more, there wouldn't have been any point! Yes, he has come in 2nd or 3rd against older kids - I honestly don't think there's a college out there that's going to rule him out based on that... And along the way he's done extremely well at the higher grade, and turned even the "losses" into opportunities he wouldn't have had if he hadn't been involved at that level. But it's not a solid wall of 1st prizes. The other reason for this has nothing to do with colleges. If DS were stuck with age peers, in some cases he could seriously just "phone it in" and get an award. We don't do that. If that means he doesn't have the perfect college application? Fine. If I kept him in easy competitions that he could win with his eyes closed all the way through K-12, what kind of kid would I have in the end? He would never have learned to work hard, he would never have learned to lose with grace, he would never have stretched outside his comfort zone... And at that point we'd have bigger problems than college admissions to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 :iagree: Colleges look for the best. When sifting through mounds of applications with no faces attached, they're not going to take the time to look at Little Johnny's age. They want to see who has the highest scores & awards. In a competitive environment, I keep my kids with age peers. In an academic environment, I keep them at an accelerated level. What's interesting is that we can do this as homeschoolers, but an accelerated kid in school is not able to do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) I'm not saying throw them in where they'll crash and burn, but make sure that it takes their best work to win (or get an A). And then expect their best work. Taking high school exams early is a good example -- there wouldn't be any point in waiting until they were really trivial - do them as soon as you can reasonably expect the A with effort, and then put in the effort. I was just wanting to pick up the risks of putting a child in at a level where 'he could fail'. In a competitive world, a fail at a high level will still be seen as a fail. I absolutely understand the challenge issue. Calvin is now at school (private school, all IB, fairly academic, one year accelerated) and is having to keep a clear eye on his goals in order to put in the (often trivial) work. When he was at home I made sure that he always had hard work to do. Laura Edited March 27, 2012 by Laura Corin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I will just smile and say something like "thank you for concerning about her, I think she can handle it" DD who turned 4 about about 2 months ago was playing with neighbor kid who is in 1st grade and one thing lead to anther. those 2 started to quiz each other math fact. and DD beat the boy easily when she start to quiz the neighbor boy multiplication. The boy didn't come back to play since. I really don't want the kids academic ability to interference their social life. I don't quite know what to do just yet. Maybe that is something you also need to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I have had a couple people make similar comments at Irish fiddling competitions in which my dd has competed. She has been winning competitions in the US in the under 12 age group since she was 6yo and could easily move up to the under 15 age group here in the States but we don't move her up because she has not yet won in Ireland and one reason is the size of her fiddle (she's been the only competitor on a fractional size fiddle). A few parents we know, almost in jest but not quite, have said things to the effect of "Maybe (my child) can take 2nd or 3rd since we know who's going to win." Others have joked about people questioning whether or not she's in the correct age group..."We think she's an adult in a child's body." My general response is "Anyone can win. It is up to the judges to decide." As we have seen in Ireland with judging, things don't always go the way one (or a lot of people) think they should go so my comment is completely honest especially in competitions where winning is based on other people's opinion (subjective) rather than who answers something correctly like a math or spelling competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmama2 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I never had the slightest interest in running but as a teen I had a few friends who did. In our year at our school was a girl who had already made preselection for the Olympic team in her distance at 15. So obviously there just never was any doubt about who would win the school cross country or even the district or state levels. Was it unfair? Maybe, but so what? My running friends grumbled a little and got on with competing for second place (and seeing who could keep her in their sights the longest). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 What's interesting is that we can do this as homeschoolers, but an accelerated kid in school is not able to do the same thing. Actually, I've heard this exact argument used against magnet and specialized private schools in competition-because they ARE providing higher level content while keeping the child at the age/grade level, and they're often the PS settings that rack in academic awards. There are PS programs that provide a good part of what I'm providing for my daughter (maybe not the Attic Greek). Just not ones in my area, and often not ones I could afford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissKNG Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I just find it amusing that this mother is getting her knickers in a knot over an Easter basket decorating contest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmama2 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 MissKNG I want to "like" your comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I just find it amusing that this mother is getting her knickers in a knot over an Easter basket decorating contest... :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I was just wanting to pick up the risks of putting a child in at a level where 'he could fail'. In a competitive world, a fail at a high level will still be seen as a fail. there is a very real risk... but if there is no risk, then even succeeding becomes trivial. And that's exactly what I want to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 there is a very real risk... but if there is no risk, then even succeeding becomes trivial. And that's exactly what I want to avoid. The true ideal, of course, is to find competitions that ARE competitive within the age range, and I think it's a self-correcting problem. One reason why elementary school competitions are rarely competitive, especially not early elementary, is that they're almost always limited to one classroom, or one school, or one local homeschool group or whatever. But put it on a larger scale, as things like National Geography Bee, or AMC, or ISEF, and even a PG kid is likely to find competition and a real risk of losing to kids their age, especially if they're dilettantes who enjoy competing in everything, as opposed to preparing seriously for one (I can easily see this being DD's problem unless she focuses-right now, she basically enters every contest that comes down the pike, whether it's writing, art, handwriting, math, spelling, science fair, piano and so on). The World Education games showed her that even though she's very good at academics, there are other kids who are equally as good, and are also a lot better at doing the same problems faster. And even at age 7, there are enough subjective things that my DD is well aware that she's not always going to win-she said flat out when she did her "Doodle for Google" that she knew she wasn't likely to win, but she had fun doing it and writing her explanation to go with it. Same with the Easter Basket contest-my neighbor is a lot more confident about DD's skills than DD is! I suspect I might think about it differently were DD truly driven towards only one goal and desirous of competition in that area, and it wasn't available-but as long as she's got events where she's coming home with a "participant" certificate after putting in a significant effort, I don't feel too bad about her coming home with 1st place ribbons for science fair or spelling bee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Anyone have similar comments made about their children? How do you respond?? The PC version would be: "Regarding the formal requirements needed to qualify for this /whatever it is/, all of the candidates seem to have satisfied them, or else they would have been eliminated from /whatever it is/." The un-PC version would be: "The world is not fair. We are all determined by a host of arbitrary qualities of arbitrary intensities that we could not have affected, both in terms of nature and nurture. An attempt to provide a platform for a 'perfectly fair' competition will always be futile, because you simply cannot design such a thing. At best, you can be very specific about who qualifies to compete, but even that is no guarantee that you will successfully eliminate higher skilled candidates by age or grade level restraints. At some point, you just have to live with it, no matter what cards you personally or your children were given in the game of life. You have to play with the cards you have, not the cards you wish you had - and whether that is going to be good or not, it will depend upon other people too and as far as that is concerned, there is absolutely nothing you could or should do about it. C'est la vie." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I would be at a loss too. On one hand, you want to be encouraging to her child, and truly, intelligence does not win all the time. Particularly in art, even special needs kids can often hold their own. On the other hand, how nasty of her to basically shoot hate vibes at your seven-year-old. The problem is hers, not yours / your daughter's. I avoid "contests" because I don't want the focus to be on who is "best." It brings out the worst in most people. But if my kids learn of a contest and want to participate, I'll support them, and that includes preparing them for the fact that they are statistically more likely to lose than win, and that they should be happy for whoever does win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 My DD completed her fantasy-themed decorated Easter basket and a story to go with it (about a dragon hiding her special eggs for her friends to find each Spring) for a little local contest. One of my neighbors,with a similar aged child, commented that her DC might as well not enter, because it "Wasn't fair" that he'd have to compete against DD since she's "not really" a 2nd grader.:001_huh: Uh...she's 7. If anything, she's "not really" a 2nd grader because she's younger than other 2nd graders due to being grade skipped when still in PS. It's not DD's fault that she writes better than other kids her age, and it's still up to the judges-it's an Easter Basket contest with a description/explanation, not a writing contest! I gave a response to the effect that I'd enjoy seeing what her DS came up with. Anyone have similar comments made about their children? How do you respond?? In my world, 7 is a second grader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I would be at a loss too. On one hand, you want to be encouraging to her child, and truly, intelligence does not win all the time. Particularly in art, even special needs kids can often hold their own. On the other hand, how nasty of her to basically shoot hate vibes at your seven-year-old. The problem is hers, not yours / your daughter's. I avoid "contests" because I don't want the focus to be on who is "best." It brings out the worst in most people. But if my kids learn of a contest and want to participate, I'll support them, and that includes preparing them for the fact that they are statistically more likely to lose than win, and that they should be happy for whoever does win. This too. Art is NOT something limited to the academics, by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova147 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 My DD completed her fantasy-themed decorated Easter basket and a story to go with it (about a dragon hiding her special eggs for her friends to find each Spring) for a little local contest. One of my neighbors,with a similar aged child, commented that her DC might as well not enter, because it "Wasn't fair" that he'd have to compete against DD since she's "not really" a 2nd grader.:001_huh: Uh...she's 7. If anything, she's "not really" a 2nd grader because she's younger than other 2nd graders due to being grade skipped when still in PS. It's not DD's fault that she writes better than other kids her age, and it's still up to the judges-it's an Easter Basket contest with a description/explanation, not a writing contest! I gave a response to the effect that I'd enjoy seeing what her DS came up with. Anyone have similar comments made about their children? How do you respond?? This isn't nova. This is her 'dh'. I'd make a very short response to your neighbor: will you expect the taller girls not to compete in basketball based on it being 'not fair'? What about the faster boys playing football? Anyone even suggesting that a gifted child should be disqualified from this sort of competition needs to re-examine exactly what they mean by 'fair'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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