Tapestry of Grace and My Father's World

[dkt320]

I am looking at both TOG and MFW right now, and they both look great. I have a DS 8 (3rd grade) and a DS 6 (1st grade) and a DD 2. MFW seems to be a bit easier to organize and put together in that it seems like it all comes in the package, except for some of the books needed. In terms of planning and presenting the material to two different levels, is TOG more of a challenge? Could I just order the TOG bonus bundle and then add the books as we go? I really like both and am having a hard time deciding. I am coming from our first year of homeschooling and we used straight Abeka. Thanks for any input!

[Sue G in PA]

Can't comment on TOG except to say that it overwhelmed me just looking at it even though it did "intrigue" me, KWIM? We are using MFW ECC next year and I LOVE how the tm is layed out. Very simple to use. I needed simple for next year after adding a newborn to our mix. MFW fit that bill. I love the Hazel's philosophy of education (a good mix of CM and Classical) and find myself drawn to that. As for TOG, many love it and like I said...I was intrigued. BUt, for me, I needed simple and MFW is much simpler IMO.

[Michelle My Bell]

I have used both and they are both great! I compared them on my website. I am currently a bigger TOG fan than MFW, so there is a bias.

 

Michelle

 

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/michellemybell

[qfbrenda]

I've used both, and I think you would be better off with MFW. TOG can be overwhelming and is really better for older kids. I would definitely go with MFW and maybe consider TOG for later on when your kids are in logic stage or beyond.

[dkt320]

So even the books for independent reading are included in the MFW package? We would be doing Adventures and First. We are coming from Abeka, which includes all the leveled readers, so I just want to make sure I am not leaving anything out.

[Sue G in PA]

All the scheduled readers are included in the package (the Deluxe package) for Adventures and 1st. Take a look at the website to see what is included. http://www.mfwbooks.com

 

Any supplemental "book basket" books are not included but easily found at your library (usually). At least, this is true for the books for ECC!

 

HTH,

Sue

[dkt320]

I think I need something simple and straight forward here. I don't have a lot of time to go searching for books and pulling things together, so maybe MFW will be a better fit for us.

[seanda]

One of the cost benefits of TOG is that if you love it... as we do... you are only buying 4 curriculum years... and reusing it all 12 years. That does cut costs. Yes, Tapestry does not include the books but with all the flexibiilty I only buy a few books per year and use the library for the rest. In high school, I will probably have to buy a greater number of them, so I am dividing my costs by buying the year plans the first time and the books when we get to high school. Btw, for reference, we have used TOG for 3 years now.. and I have a 12 and 10 year old.

 

MFW is an awesome curriculum... easier to use... simpler in layout.. but that is because it is for just that one year. The reason Tapestry seems so overwhelming is that it has 12 years worth of material for that one time period AND it has flexibility built in.

[Lisawa]

I am looking at both TOG and MFW right now, and they both look great. I have a DS 8 (3rd grade) and a DS 6 (1st grade) and a DD 2. MFW seems to be a bit easier to organize and put together in that it seems like it all comes in the package, except for some of the books needed. In terms of planning and presenting the material to two different levels, is TOG more of a challenge? Could I just order the TOG bonus bundle and then add the books as we go? I really like both and am having a hard time deciding. I am coming from our first year of homeschooling and we used straight Abeka. Thanks for any input!

 

 

 

I cant comment on MFW....I’m sure its wonderful.... but I do have some experience with TOG so can really only comment on that.

 

Yes, you can order the bundle and add books as you go.... You can use the library for History because TOG is not book specific in its history, but topic specific. Literature it is book specific....

 

I prefer TOG because I can streamline so much and keep my kids on the same time period and at level. You do have some choices to make as far as how much and when, but the searching is done... you plan when to do what is suggested.

 

You only follow the section your children are in. LG and UG are not overwhelming at all. Its very doable and because you have a 3rd and first grader, you are actually only using the lower grammar level and you can skim the UG if you feel your dc in 3rd grade is ready. They have great books you can use for fun hands on projects and ideas. They also offer new and updated lap books that can follow along each unit. Its amazing.

 

You can choose to go slow, or as written. You are in the drivers seat... seriously.... I hosted the Tapestry of Grace booth this last weekend at our local State conference and I loved talking with people who also thought it overwhelming... its really not when you sit down and look at what you actually do. Especially in grammar levels.

 

 

BOTH TOG and MFW offers History and literature selections... I’m sure geography ( I know TOG has these things) church history and writing if you so choose.... and TOG has streamlined it all, in chronological order and at appropriate levels.

 

TOG does become an investment, but you eventually buy 4 year plans and can use each one from K-adult. They do offer books on the book shelf or you can find them used. Many of us do... even those who don’t use TOG.

 

With Grammar levels my investment would be a bonus bundle each year (4 years) books used in more than 1 year plan, books used for more than 1 unit, all literature and then fill in history as best I can. Many of the books are used in other programs, so they can be found used....

 

SOTW is also included now... so if you enjoy that, its offered...

 

My suggestion is to print out a 3 week free trial, or just print out one week if you want.... look at what you really will do each week in LG. its very doable and achievable.

 

I’m not sure what year plan you want to go w/ but TOG year 1 bonus bundle is $295. You get year plan, map aids and tab set. You also choose between ( Writing aids, all pop quizzes, all lap books and all evaluations for your year plan of choice. Price ranging between 50-40 $$ value) you then choose one of the above and its price ranging form 15-12 $$.

 

Bottom line cost for all LG books:

History

In depth

Literature

Arts and activities

World view/Church History

 

Price $347.00 for the year

 

I would eliminate in depth books and use the library saving me $122.33 So my actual price is $224.67 for the year.... So if I had a do over my total cost for the year $519.00 including all books and cds I need and the year plan.

 

This covers History, literature, geography and arts and activities subjects. Writing is optional especially because of age... but its available and also supplies for the activities.... add math, phonics and grammar.

 

My youngest 2 were 1st and 4th when I started Tapestry.... I don’t regret using TOG. I also realize that TOG is not for everyone....... no curriculum is... TOG just speaks to my heart and and matches my hearts desire for what I am for in the older grades....its been a blessing to teach them all the way thorugh.... it has guided me thorugh the best world view, history/church history program I have ever used...ever... and its a literature based unit study.... ( I have always used Susans SOTW Cds, and Love her books)

 

HTH~ I realize this is my perspective and it suits my fancy.... not everyone elses.... you have lots of great resources and curriculum's to choose from... I wish you the best....

[Donna A.]

MFW is an awesome curriculum... easier to use... simpler in layout.. but that is because it is for just that one year.

 

Well, that's not quite true... there are advanced assignments in the lesson plans for older students, and a wide variety of hands-on activities that you can choose from depending on the student (and you). You would then use the same program again when your younger child(ren) cycle back around to it.

 

The only thing that would be a "different" or "additional" program is in high school, and that's because it's written at the college-prep level for that student to individualize and prepare for adulthood. Community service is a strong aspect of the high school years, as well. They're therefore writing the high school programs FOR the high school level student to be able to work mostly independently. It goes a lot to having the child learn independence and responsibility. They highly emphasize teaching the child independence as they get older, even during the elementary years. Advanced assignments in the elementary years are geared to be able to do this, as well.

 

MFW is very family-oriented with the growth and maturation of the children in mind.

[Lisawa]

The only thing that would be a "different" or "additional" program is in high school, and that's because it's written at the college-prep level for that student to individualize and prepare for adulthood. Community service is a strong aspect of the high school years, as well. They're therefore writing the high school programs FOR the high school level student to be able to work mostly independently. It goes a lot to having the child learn independence and responsibility. They highly emphasize teaching the child independence as they get older, even during the elementary years. Advanced assignments in the elementary years are geared to be able to do this, as well.

 

MFW is very family-oriented with the growth and maturation of the children in mind.

 

 

Same as TOG. :) I guess it would be another similarity....

 

Although community service is not in the guide.... my kids are involved in many community programs......

[AudreyTN]

For what it's worth, I've already started Adv in MFW and plan to continue with the cyclce. Then I'll probably do TOG. That year I will have a 9th, 8th, 6th and 2nd... so it seemed more fitting! :001_smile:

[Lisawa]

For what it's worth, I've already started Adv in MFW and plan to continue with the cyclce. Then I'll probably do TOG. That year I will have a 9th, 8th, 6th and 2nd... so it seemed more fitting! :001_smile:

 

 

Still not trying to convince anyone of anything... but I have to say.... you are spending a lot of hard earned cash for a program you will only use for 1 cycle. Investing in TOG, knowing you will use it later saves a lot of money in the long run. You wont be buying books in those lower levels again, you buy to the oldest and use what you have for the younger.... just more thoughts...:)

[cbollin]

On the high school comparison stuff (I didn't see if this was mentioned already or not... sorry if it is duplicated.....)

 

Not sure if this is similar or not.... MFW's high school will have the student read the entire Bible. The entire OT is read and studied in the Ancients high school year. The entire NT is read in the high school year 2 (World history Rome to Modern)

 

might be something that is important to some people and not to others. worth a tiny mention.

 

-crystal

[CarynB]

For our home I found MFW easier to implement at this time in our lives. Our oldest is 6 and is doing Adventures. We did TOG Year 1 previous to this. I think TOG is a great program but with 5 kids between 6 and newborn it became too much work for me to plan out each week, go to the library to get our books etc. We just don't have the $$$ right now to purchase the books we needed so the library was a MUST!!! I like the MFW is pick up and go and you can add in books where you'd like but nothing extra is required. Also, if you purchase the deluxe package you will also have art, music and science included in your price; whereas you will not have these with TOG. I also like the Bible from MFW at this age better that what we had with TOG. Right now dh and I are debating whether we will return to TOG when the kids are older or just use Omnibus from Veritas Press....either way you decide, your children will be richly blessed, both TOG and MFW are excellent programs.

[sweetbaby]

MFW is adaptable for older grades also. Actually, it runs in a four year cycle of history after a geo. study. It's for grades 2-8 so you repeat the cycles til your oldest reaches high school but the younger child/children continue through the cycles as same. Each year has adaptable lessons according to the ages/grades of your children so you purchase each year once and a year is repeated more in-depth.

 

The teacher's manual is very easy to follow. As many already know, MFW intertwines CM and Classical education. You can look ahead for a week and pick up your library books for your book basket. MFW incorporates Bible, Science, History/Geography, Music and Art in one so it is a time saver when teaching multiples grade levels or ages. They also have Language Arts and Math recommendations that you can purchase from them also. I believe the lang. arts consists of Spelling Power, Primary/Intermediate Language Lessons and a writing program but we use Rod and Staff's Math and English and Natural Speller for those. Their Math recommendation is Singapore, I believe. However, you can pick your own since it isn't part of the package. I know some who tweak the science a little at the lower elem. levels and some find that it's just right but they recommend Apologia at the junior high levels.

 

Each year is from $250 to $375 depending on if you purchase the basic or deluxe package. You could save by searching used curriculum sites also.

 

MFW has plenty of hands on activities and it's strong in Biblical education. I guess the plus for TOG would be that it spands through to high school. MFW has one year of high school out so far and working on the remaining. HTH and I hope you find what works for your family. :)

[Lisawa]

MFW has plenty of hands on activities and it's strong in Biblical education. I guess the plus for TOG would be that it spands through to high school. MFW has one year of high school out so far and working on the remaining. HTH and I hope you find what works for your family. :)

 

 

TOg is also strong in biblical content, the world view and bible survey are solid... and appropraite for each level of learning. :) Also has activites and hands on crafts for all levels....

 

From what I am reading... they are a lot a like as to what they offer, but I think MFW schedules the pages and what to do each day.... it seems to be the one big difference... TOG allows you to choose what to accomplish each day.... light oe heavy....

 

Im enjoying this thread....

[profmom]

I have a DS 8 (3rd grade) and a DS 6 (1st grade) and a DD 2.

 

MFW seems to be a bit easier to organize and put together in that it seems like it all comes in the package

 

I am coming from our first year of homeschooling and we used straight Abeka.

 

I would choose MFW for you for the reasons you listed above. We used MFW CtG last year and are going to TOG2 this coming year. We're going to TOG because I want help with discussions now that my oldest is going into 6th and because I want book suggestions by level each week instead of MFW's book basket suggestions. I'll also be able to use the year plans again because I'll be teaching the 4-year history cycle 4 more times (including the cycle we began last year)!!

 

I think MFW will be a big help for you as you make the switch from Abeka to literature-based. For one thing, MFW's schedule is daily and TOG's is weekly (that you would have to break into daily bits). MFW is fairly easy to understand out of the box and TOG takes a lot more effort. (The author says that most go through a TOG "fog" for about 4 weeks before everything begins to click.)

 

There's always time to switch to TOG later, if you still want to, but I recommend MFW for you for this year!

[M&M]

Both are excellent programs. If you feel the need for some help and really want your days laid out for you MFW is an excellent choice.

 

I switched to TOG this year and I really wish I had not waited so long to get it. I am leaning so much and am trying to learn ahead of my 6th grader.

 

When my oldest was little, we read through SOTW and I learned so much. But it was all on her level. I didn't have the time or desire to delve deeper. I didn't think about the logic stage or the rhetoric stage, they seemed so far away. I was trying to take care of today, I wasn't worried about the future. Now I understand with Tapestry that I can dig deeper learn more, make the connections with a Biblical focus. The threads of history are not disjointed stories, they weave a beautiful tapestry of HIS story..the story of mankind. As I learn ahead of my children (instead of alongside them) I am better prepared for the future and am a better teacher now.

 

We used the classic this year, and I took quite a while for me to feel that I had a good plan. This year we will use the redesign and I am soo excited! This is the first year hsing that I don't feel stressed over what we will do next school year.

 

One of the biggest problems I had with MFW is that my 5th grader was not challenged enough and wanted more and my 3rd grader didn't get it. I had to tweek things (I am a tweeker anyway). I find myself doing much less of that, or perhaps I just feel more freedom with a weekly schedule opposed to a daily one. With Tapestry, if something is too challenging we can drop down a level, or jump up a level if my dc need a little more meat. I can change things at anytime and I don't have to research anything, it is all there. the teachers notes in Tapestry for me (YMMV) were so very complete that I could master the subject and really be prepared for discussions with my children.

 

One of the things I loved about MFW is that it taught me a lot about what my children can do for memory (memorizing the book of James--ok we didn't do all of it, but we did a good amount). We sang hymns daily. Those things we carry into our schooling this year.

 

Going from Abeka to Tapestry is a big leap, if you take the time to prepare yourself, you can do it. If you feel like you need more guidance MFW would be a good choice, but it really does not compare to TOG as a complete curriculum for K -12.

[M&M]

On the high school comparison stuff (I didn't see if this was mentioned already or not... sorry if it is duplicated.....)

 

Not sure if this is similar or not.... MFW's high school will have the student read the entire Bible. The entire OT is read and studied in the Ancients high school year. The entire NT is read in the high school year 2 (World history Rome to Modern)

 

might be something that is important to some people and not to others. worth a tiny mention.

 

-crystal

 

I think that TOG goes through the entire Bible in year one and maybe finished up in Year2

[farmwife]

I understand the postion you are in...I'm right there with ya girl!

 

I have researched both curriculums extensively. I have looked through TOG more because I have a friend who used TOG Redesign 1.

 

These are my thoughts, although I haven't personally used either yet so I am unbiased (I think!).

 

I love so many things about TOG, I think it's great that you can go so deep and understand things at a deeper level even though your children may not be there. I think the flexability is great, although with that comes more responsibility for the mother to manage the different levels and the work involved for each level or child.

 

Having come to that conclusion, I realize realistically it is not an option for us at this time.

 

Also, I think Lisa did a cost breakdown for TOG but I feel it is really unrealistic. Libraries are great but with small children it can become a huge burden to add to an already overburdened mother. I use libraries sparingly for the simple fact that to gather my brood of chicks and pack them up and drive to the library is a huge task, not to mention ordering the books or picking them up and then trying not to lose them at home with the other gazzilion books I have.

 

My friend who used TOG, LOVED IT!!! Having said that they are not able to financially afford using it again. Isn't that sad! To have a great curriculum but be unable to use it because of the extreme cost factor.

 

To boil all my ramblings down, I have really decided that MFW is a realistic approach that I am willing to invest in and discover. I haven't used it yet but I look forward to doing so. Maybe someday when I find a money tree, and I am not overwhelmed by the amount of planning involved in TOG, and I don't have small children. Maybe...Maybe.. then I may try TOG.

[Lisawa]

I understand the postion you are in...I'm right there with ya girl!

 

 

 

Also, I think Lisa did a cost breakdown for TOG but I feel it is really unrealistic.

 

 

I agree to disagree... :) its the bottom line break down I gave... the books I eliminated were in depth... and not core.... they could be filled with books form the library as one chose.... it was actually a very accurate breakdown for the one level. *Ü*

[M&M]

[quote name=farmwife;307672

Also' date=' I think Lisa did a cost breakdown for TOG but I feel it is really unrealistic. Libraries are great but with small children it can become a huge burden to add to an already overburdened mother. I use libraries sparingly for the simple fact that to gather my brood of chicks and pack them up and drive to the library is a huge task, not to mention ordering the books or picking them up and then trying not to lose them at home with the other gazzilion books I have.

 

 

Until this week our library has been less than ideal (we now have access to 75 libraries and can order books online). In fact the year I used MFW is the year that we had our 5th baby. I knew that the would be no way I would be running to the library to get all the books in the activity guide that probably wouldn't be there anyway. There were no services for ordering ahead and picking up books, I had to go there and pick out the books...haul them home etc... I decided that I would start building my own library, I have gathered classics and lots of history books,by going to used book sales, curriculum sales, and library sales. I have picked up books from bookcloseouts.com, bargain book tables, and of course amazon. I did a little at a time and am still building. With 5 children, I know that I have enough to keep them busy no matter what curriculum I choose.

 

 

What I have discovered, is that for the grammar stage,(I have used WTM history with usborne (pre-SOTW), SOTW 1-3, MFW, and Tapestry), even though I have used different curriculum for history, the way we do history has not changed that much. All use some sort of spine text to keep you going in a direction. All have lists of books you may use to suppliment and delve deeper, MFW calls it book basket, SOTW has lit and history additional readings, and TOG has its book lists . You don't need to buy all those books, you don't need to read any of the additional stuff to your grammar stage child and they will still get something out of it.

 

I think the real difference is what each one offers the teacher. My oldest began logic stage thinking in the middle of the year we did MFW and *I* was not prepared for her sudden desire to have deeper understanding of what we were learning. I want to be prepared all my children as they grow, and I cannot afford, mid year to start something new. I have fewer worries about high school, because I get to step into the high school years whenever I can and prepare myself for RHETORIC level teaching :scared:.

 

I have loved doing school simply with SOTW, I just wished I had know how to prepare for the future better. Take your time to make wise choices, it is more expesive to jump from curriculum to curriculum than to buy something that works well and live with it for years.

 

I had to stop reading these boards for a while because everything new sounded soo good!

 

Blessings with your choices!

[dkt320]

Well, I am still jumping back and forth, one day MFW and the next TOG. Another question, any experience with ADD kids and TOG? (Today is a TOG day!)

[M&M]

print out the samples on the Tapestry website and do a trial run. I think that it is amazing that you can try TOG for 3 weeks by just printing out a sample.

 

Take 3 weeks to see if you can do it and how your children handle it, keeping in mind that it does take a while to get into a groove with Tapestry.

 

You can print up a sample of MFW (I think you can print a week's worth of samples) and see what you think.

 

It is not a perfect solution, because I really think you need to understand how a particular currriculum is designed to be used before you can truely reap the benefits of a program.

 

Take it one step at a time...really what is the worst thing that can happen? You clearly care about your children's education, whatever you choose is just a tool to get them where they need to be. Some tools work better than others, some we keep, some we replace, some we shelve for another day. If you keep focused on the goal no matter what you choose you will do well.

 

Btw, what are the ages of your children?

 

Blessings,

[mommaduck]

THIS is why we switched from TOG to MFW. At the time we had too many young children, not much money, our library in that town rarely had the books we needed (and when they did, most of the time they had already been checked out by others that were using TOG), and they just didn't have many activities for my young children (at least not at that time that we were able to do on limited resources).

 

Now my children are older and we aren't "tight" on everything. I'm not fully set one way or another. Almost looking at just following the cycle, but putting together my own plan using SOTW and SOC. I've kept both my MFW-ECC and TOG-Y3 because I do find them valuable. My oldest is about to hit 7th soon...I'm still looking at a separate curriculum for him (TOG or Omnibus...Omnibus more along our lines theologically).

 

For our home I found MFW easier to implement at this time in our lives. Our oldest is 6 and is doing Adventures. We did TOG Year 1 previous to this. I think TOG is a great program but with 5 kids between 6 and newborn it became too much work for me to plan out each week, go to the library to get our books etc. We just don't have the $$$ right now to purchase the books we needed so the library was a MUST!!! I like the MFW is pick up and go and you can add in books where you'd like but nothing extra is required. Also, if you purchase the deluxe package you will also have art, music and science included in your price; whereas you will not have these with TOG. I also like the Bible from MFW at this age better that what we had with TOG. Right now dh and I are debating whether we will return to TOG when the kids are older or just use Omnibus from Veritas Press....either way you decide, your children will be richly blessed, both TOG and MFW are excellent programs.

[Donna A.]

You can print up a sample of MFW (I think you can print a week's worth of samples) and see what you think.

And I wouldn't just print the samples for the initial year that you're considering. One thing that helped me to decide *for* MFW was to print up all the sample lessons from all the years, and then to sit down and read through them in order. This gave me a "big picture" view of what we'd be doing not only the first year, but in the coming years. It helped me to see how each year builds upon the previous year with more depth, the kinds of activities, literature choices, advanced assignments for older students, and the Bible chronology as well as the history chronology.

 

It also gave me a bigger view of the total "discipleship" of the program. Initially, they are introducing the young child to Jesus and His Word. Then they build on that with more actual Bible study and tons of scripture memorization. Then the theme becomes acts of service. There are 3 cycles of this, each one at a more mature level with more requirements, not only academic, but spiritually as well:

 

1st cycle: K, 1st and Adventures

 

2nd cycle: ECC, CTG, RTR, EX1850, 1850-Modern, and then if you've been following the cycle as written from the beginning, you would have an 8th grader ready to ECC again with the recommended junior high supplementation, including deeper (and more detailed) missionary bios.

 

3rd cycle: High school, beginning with the Ancients and reading through the entire OT, and able to give a defense for Creation over evolution. (Yes, they also teach Apologetics!)

 

Thus, what I'm suggesting is to consider more than just the history part of the program... consider the entire program.

 

If you haven't already spent time at the MFW forums, be sure to check them out, and especially the archives for each year's program. Here's a link to the "Choosing Curriculum" page, where you'll find a couple of threads with conference CD information... listening to some of David Hazell's talks might clear up a few questions you have.

 

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=83a68c8c60b8edc315c3f95c5b9aa17b

[bethben]

I too like the look of both programs. I thought I was a MFW person all the way, but now that I'm looking at starting the history cycle, I'm considering TOG. The reasons I'm looking at it again is a friend of mine is using it next year (and she thinks it's very doable) who will be having a 2nd set of twins any day with 4 older children, the oldest of whom will be 8. So, I figure if she thinks it's doable, I could do it too.

 

Here's what I think are the differences (this is coming from samples on the websites). I think MFW is a very gentle approach (Charlotte Mason) that does get learning accomplished very well. It's easy for a busy mother who really just needs open and go.

 

I see TOG as being more of a "prep school" curriculum. It challenges students academically earlier. It's for the type of mom who likes to plan. I also think it does a better job at including all age levels (MFW suggests a seperate program for K and 1st). I also won't have to do the same curriculum with my oldest when he cycles back in the 3rd -8th. Yes, it does have suggestions to make it academically more appropriate, but your child is doing the same curriculum with mostly the same books.

 

Personally, I'm more drawn to TOG for our future history cycle. I like to plan and have a child who LOVES hands on stuff. I also want to challenge him at a different level with literature choices than I think he would do with history readings. I like the fact that they have activity sheets for the literature choices. I like that the writing is integrated with help to teach it (MFW has you do a seperate writing program in 4th grade). I'm going to the library anyway for MFW - it's no different with TOG. Mostly, TOG keeps coming back to me and I'm drawn to it which may just be God's leading.

 

Beth

[BranchOfWisdom]

I'll share a little bit of input from our many years of MFW. We've used Adventures, ECC, CtG and are starting RtR. I do have a daughter in High School and the flexibility of the history cycle has allowed her to join with us in the cycle, by only 'beefing' up the program a bit with additional independent reading. We did NOT buy the High School program, but instead used the lower cycle with just adding in the recommended resources for HS. A much more cost effective alternative for those with larger families.

 

I love the "open and go" method and now has even been a special learning tool at teaching my daughters a special gift-- learning how to homeschool themselves. It allows me additional quality time to plan for other events like coordinated field trips with the topic of study. I want to pass along encouragement and strength to them to homeschool their own children. They feel very privileged to be teacher for the day and at the same time it gives me the flexibility to juggle other things in a busy family. The retention level when "teaching" siblings seems to be much greater as another added benefit.

 

Just wanted to share a bit. Great topic and I've really enjoyed reading the input of others on both programs.

[cricket1178]

I cant comment on MFW....I’m sure its wonderful.... but I do have some experience with TOG so can really only comment on that.

 

Yes, you can order the bundle and add books as you go.... You can use the library for History because TOG is not book specific in its history, but topic specific. Literature it is book specific....

 

I prefer TOG because I can streamline so much and keep my kids on the same time period and at level. You do have some choices to make as far as how much and when, but the searching is done... you plan when to do what is suggested.

 

You only follow the section your children are in. LG and UG are not overwhelming at all. Its very doable and because you have a 3rd and first grader, you are actually only using the lower grammar level and you can skim the UG if you feel your dc in 3rd grade is ready. They have great books you can use for fun hands on projects and ideas. They also offer new and updated lap books that can follow along each unit. Its amazing.

 

You can choose to go slow, or as written. You are in the drivers seat... seriously.... I hosted the Tapestry of Grace booth this last weekend at our local State conference and I loved talking with people who also thought it overwhelming... its really not when you sit down and look at what you actually do. Especially in grammar levels.

 

 

BOTH TOG and MFW offers History and literature selections... I’m sure geography ( I know TOG has these things) church history and writing if you so choose.... and TOG has streamlined it all, in chronological order and at appropriate levels.

 

TOG does become an investment, but you eventually buy 4 year plans and can use each one from K-adult. They do offer books on the book shelf or you can find them used. Many of us do... even those who don’t use TOG.

 

With Grammar levels my investment would be a bonus bundle each year (4 years) books used in more than 1 year plan, books used for more than 1 unit, all literature and then fill in history as best I can. Many of the books are used in other programs, so they can be found used....

 

SOTW is also included now... so if you enjoy that, its offered...

 

My suggestion is to print out a 3 week free trial, or just print out one week if you want.... look at what you really will do each week in LG. its very doable and achievable.

 

I’m not sure what year plan you want to go w/ but TOG year 1 bonus bundle is $295. You get year plan, map aids and tab set. You also choose between ( Writing aids, all pop quizzes, all lap books and all evaluations for your year plan of choice. Price ranging between 50-40 $$ value) you then choose one of the above and its price ranging form 15-12 $$.

 

Bottom line cost for all LG books:

History

In depth

Literature

Arts and activities

World view/Church History

 

Price $347.00 for the year

 

I would eliminate in depth books and use the library saving me $122.33 So my actual price is $224.67 for the year.... So if I had a do over my total cost for the year $519.00 including all books and cds I need and the year plan.

 

This covers History, literature, geography and arts and activities subjects. Writing is optional especially because of age... but its available and also supplies for the activities.... add math, phonics and grammar.

 

My youngest 2 were 1st and 4th when I started Tapestry.... I don’t regret using TOG. I also realize that TOG is not for everyone....... no curriculum is... TOG just speaks to my heart and and matches my hearts desire for what I am for in the older grades....its been a blessing to teach them all the way thorugh.... it has guided me thorugh the best world view, history/church history program I have ever used...ever... and its a literature based unit study.... ( I have always used Susans SOTW Cds, and Love her books)

 

HTH~ I realize this is my perspective and it suits my fancy.... not everyone elses.... you have lots of great resources and curriculum's to choose from... I wish you the best....

 

Could you give me a breakdown of what I'd need to do TOG year 1 with my 7th grade dd? I'm having trouble finding this information on their website. Thanks.:)

[Julie in MN]

I have used both and they are both great! I compared them on my website. I am currently a bigger TOG fan than MFW, so there is a bias.

 

I think it's great that you put your bias out there. I try to remember to do that,too -- my bias is MFW LOL!

 

I see your cost comparison on your blog, but was there anything else I missed comparing the two on your blog? For instance, I was curious how TOG provides for teaching youngsters to read & learn their numbers, if it doesn't use separate K/1st like MFW uses.

 

Also, I think some of the info on your blog might be mistaken. What level of MFW did you use? For instance, you mention consumables at every level of MFW. The only consumable I can think of is ECC's stickers. But maybe you're talking about MFW K/1st there?

 

Just expanding the conversation a bit. I respect TOG very much.

[Julie in MN]

Still not trying to convince anyone of anything... but I have to say.... you are spending a lot of hard earned cash for a program you will only use for 1 cycle. Investing in TOG, knowing you will use it later saves a lot of money in the long run. You wont be buying books in those lower levels again, you buy to the oldest and use what you have for the younger.... just more thoughts...:)

 

I'm not sure what years you're thinking of, but the books we have from ECC through 1850 will largely be on our shelves for the long haul. They're "living books" that we love and reference books that we use!

 

Yes, they'll only be "scheduled in" by page number for one or two years -- but what other options are you thinking of?

 

* Re-read them multiple times?

* Don't spend the money and use the library? (Hard to do if you want to teach from it on a certain day, or use it for a long period of time, but can be done.)

 

Those options work with MFW or with TOG or with any program that uses good books! But if you do purchase books and CDs, it doesn't seem a waste to me.

[Donna T.]

I am looking at both TOG and MFW right now, and they both look great. I have a DS 8 (3rd grade) and a DS 6 (1st grade) and a DD 2. MFW seems to be a bit easier to organize and put together in that it seems like it all comes in the package, except for some of the books needed. In terms of planning and presenting the material to two different levels, is TOG more of a challenge? Could I just order the TOG bonus bundle and then add the books as we go? I really like both and am having a hard time deciding. I am coming from our first year of homeschooling and we used straight Abeka. Thanks for any input!

 

 

Hi, Donna! I have never used TOG and have no interest in it whatsoever. So, I can't help you there. I have used several years (K, 1st and ADV) of MFW. I will be using MFW First Grade (for the 2nd time) for my son who will be a first grader this fall. MFW is very easy to use. It is very well planned out. The packages include the books that are scheduled for you and you will use the library (or you can make purchases of course) for any of the books that you want to add from the book list that is in the TM. There really is very little planning with MFW. Marie Hazell has done a great job with the TM and it seems like she thinks of everything that you may forget! So, she will remind you to get certain supplies (nothing weird or hard to find) or make little suggestions along the way. Other than that, you are just collecting your books and making a few copies here and there. Honestly, I never planned for anything more than a few days ahead of time.

 

It seems like MFW has this reputation for being some kind of especially easy curriculum. It is easy as far as ease of use. And, it's all very fun for the child. But, my son had PLENTY of challenge when he was using MFW. I found everything about it to be quite thorough. It's absolutely the best phonics program that I've ever found. It includes copywork (or dictation), memory work, written and oral narration assignments, and everything you need to build timelines and do some notebooking. Each year of MFW builds upon itself. Each year, there is more work and more difficult assignments.

 

One thing I love about MFW is it's completeness. I never had to worry that my son was missing out on anything that he needed to know or be doing at his grade level.

 

I would suggest that you get some of the Hazell's workshop CDs, if possible. They are very helpful and explain what their "vision" is for the curriculum and why they make some of the choices that they make.

 

If you have any questions about any of the MFW years that I've used, I'd be glad to help. I'm not using MFW anymore with my oldest son. I really don't need a complete program like MFW is. If I did want a complete program that was easy to use, I'd go with MFW. If you look at all the additional resources that they recommend (all optional), such as Spelling Power, and Rosetta Stone, for example, you will see that they recommend products that are very popular with alot of homeschoolers and that are generally considered to be top-notch.

[siloam]

Could you give me a breakdown of what I'd need to do TOG year 1 with my 7th grade dd? I'm having trouble finding this information on their website. Thanks.:)

 

I personally love this form:

 

http://www.lampstandbookshelf.com/Merchant2/popup/of1.pdf

 

A 7th grader would probably be a Dialect student, unless you find he is still struggling with seeing cause and effect, then you would want to do UG.

 

For Lit you would want every thing they suggest. For Core history, history In -depth and activity books it gets more complicated. It really is best to have your year plan in hand before you choose. Why? Well because if you buy a year long book like the president book, then you don't need to by the individual books on presidents. Some people prefer spines and some individual texts. TOG allows for both options.

 

The above PDF also only shows their first choice books, and not the alternate list. SOTW, for example, is on the alternate list and not a first choice. Why? I have always assumed it was because the way it fits into TOG topics you would read several chapters one week, and one the next. For the person who is more committed to using SOTW they can simply take some extra time on the heavy reading weeks, for those who want a nice neat 36 year, then can stick to the main choices.

 

TOG is very much about options. Which is why it works for me. I haven't used MFW, but I have used SL And WP, which are similar. I couldn't use them as open and go programs because I have definite ideas about what I want to do, so I always end up changing what ever I use to meet my ideal. TOG gives me more options as a base program, so it is easier for me to use.

 

Though TOG hasn't be overly expensive for me either, though I have bought both the Year plan and the books used (no library use here). One way or the other I end up buying a lot of books. If I use a program that uses less we just go through it quicker, and we are on to the next. TOG requires more books, but we take longer than 36 weeks to finish. It is kind of all the same here.

 

My personal feeling is that if you can use a program like MFW as open and go then there is a good chance that TOG will be too much. The one exception is if you have an child who is in High School now and needs to additional academics that TOG provides, so you are willing to put forth more effort.

 

Heather

[Lisawa]

Hi. Can you explain what you mean here... I think it might be because Im tired but Im not sure what you are trying to say... sorry...

 

Thanks...

 

I'm not sure what years you're thinking of, but the books we have from ECC through 1850 will largely be on our shelves for the long haul. They're "living books" that we love and reference books that we use!

 

Yes, they'll only be "scheduled in" by page number for one or two years -- but what other options are you thinking of?

 

* Re-read them multiple times?

* Don't spend the money and use the library? (Hard to do if you want to teach from it on a certain day, or use it for a long period of time, but can be done.)

 

Those options work with MFW or with TOG or with any program that uses good books! But if you do purchase books and CDs, it doesn't seem a waste to me.

[Lisawa]

I will PM you.... :001_smile:

 

Could you give me a breakdown of what I'd need to do TOG year 1 with my 7th grade dd? I'm having trouble finding this information on their website. Thanks.:)

[Julie in MN]

Hi. Can you explain what you mean here... I think it might be because Im tired but Im not sure what you are trying to say... sorry...

Thanks...

 

Sorry, Lisa, if I didn't make myself clear. My kids tell me that sometimes, as well! I was responding to your post where you said that with MFW, she would be spending "hard earned cash" on books that she would only use once.

 

My first response was that the books in the MFW packages are books that we will have on our shelves for years, so they are not a waste! At least the books we've used with MFW -- from 3rd through 6th grade.

 

And my other response (or conversation point LOL) was to ask how you could use only one set of books for all your kids of all ages, repeating the cycle 3 times each, and not wasting that hard-earned money buying new books for different ages. I could only see two possible options-- although I could be missing something:

 

(1) If you don't purchase any new books, but reuse the same ones, then they are reading the exact same books in K as they will in 4th and 8th?

 

(2) If you don't purchase any new books, but borrow them from the library, doesn't this become hard for "spines" that you use over a longer period of time or need on a specific day?

 

Thanks for caring about my little thoughts :o)

[Lisawa]

Well we must have been separated at birth then, cause I do the same thing all the time...so says the hubby and kids....

 

I think my wording was wrong.... not wasted as much as reading through the same material instead of different.... So I agree and apologize for the bad wording... but I hope that makes sense now... younger kids would reuse the books from previous years but the older kids read different ones as we cycle through...not the same...Im right with ya on living books being on our shelves for long periods of time... and I think why I have so many!! I have been though a lot of different literature based curriculum..

:D

 

We do buy books as they get older but as we cycle through they are reused, but new to the one using them.... hoping that made sense too... Im a bit foggy... and im not being sarcastic... I just really am tired.... I still dont know what you mean by the last 2 questions.... but Im thinking it has something to do w/ MFW has the guides set up for K-8?? Im not sure what you mean by those 2??… but for me I would never try to use a spine form the library. Those are the ones I do buy personally.... Please forgive my being dense in what you mean...Im just not sure on those last 2.... maybe I just need to go to bed and re-read it in the morning....:001_huh:

 

Sorry, Lisa, if I didn't make myself clear. My kids tell me that sometimes, as well! I was responding to your post where you said that with MFW, she would be spending "hard earned cash" on books that she would only use once.

 

My first response was that the books in the MFW packages are books that we will have on our shelves for years, so they are not a waste! At least the books we've used with MFW -- from 3rd through 6th grade.

 

And my other response (or conversation point LOL) was to ask how you could use only one set of books for all your kids of all ages, repeating the cycle 3 times each, and not wasting that hard-earned money buying new books for different ages. I could only see two possible options-- although I could be missing something:

 

(1) If you don't purchase any new books, but reuse the same ones, then they are reading the exact same books in K as they will in 4th and 8th?

 

(2) If you don't purchase any new books, but borrow them from the library, doesn't this become hard for "spines" that you use over a longer period of time or need on a specific day?

 

Thanks for caring about my little thoughts :o)

[bethben]

I think another poster said it best when they said just don't look at one year at a time. Go over the whole program. I personally like where TOG is headed and what the goals seem to be for students educated through their program. They have the same goals as I do academically. That being said, I don't know if I could have handled TOG right away. It's taken me three years just to realize what we want out of a living book curriculum. I think MFW is an easier introduction into a living books not workbooks curriculum.

Beth

[LoveBaby]

I didn't have a chance to read the whole thread, but I saw you mention you will be teaching a first grader and had to share my experience.

 

I have looked at TOG and have used MFW. TOG looked waaaaay, waaaaay to teacher intensive for me. I couldn't figure out what was what just researching it, whereas with MFW I knew exactly what I was getting into.

 

I came to MFW from trying to piece my own things together and we were all miserable. I've taught MFW K, MFW 1st and have MFW Adventures and ECC on my shelf. The 1st grade program was wonderful. I have 4 little ones ages 8, 6, 4 and 1. The then 3yo could join in with us on the science/art/music activities, which meant he wasn't getting into things and disrupting our day (that was huge for me!) He joined in on the read alouds. We had a blast. It was easy for me to implement, it took almost no time to plan and was laid out very well. I will re-use it at least 3 more times for the younger set, so the cost factor is minimal. It is an amazing 1st grade program!

 

We will start MFW Adventures (again...we're taking a break this summer) this fall and I'll be teaching it along with 1st grade. I've decided to combine them a lot and keep my 1st grader in the Adventures history/science/bible but have him do the math/reading portion of 1st.

 

I also wanted to share that while MFW might look "easy" it is certainly a challenging and thorough program. Easy is really what it means for mom! David and Marie have thoughtfully considered the needs of a mom with several children and have planned their curriculum accordingly. They understand we have more going on than just schooling all day every day and I really appreciate that!

[profmom]

I just wanted to agree with these:

 

That being said, I don't know if I could have handled TOG right away. It's taken me three years just to realize what we want out of a living book curriculum. I think MFW is an easier introduction into a living books not workbooks curriculum.

Beth

 

I agree that MFW is an easier introduction to living books, and I don't think I would have been ready for TOG in the beginning. I've always homeschooled and used living books programs for history, and I'm still having to immerse myself into TOG over the summer to feel prepared to use it in the fall. I think a determined new homeschooler could make TOG work, but, even as I'm excited to use TOG in the fall, I still feel a hint of nervousness!

 

I also wanted to share that while MFW might look "easy" it is certainly a challenging and thorough program. Easy is really what it means for mom! David and Marie have thoughtfully considered the needs of a mom with several children and have planned their curriculum accordingly. They understand we have more going on than just schooling all day every day and I really appreciate that!

 

I agree that MFW isn't "light." I was surprised by this actually! I think it's plenty for grammar stage.

 

Let us know what you decide, ok? :)

[cbollin]

I also won't have to do the same curriculum with my oldest when he cycles back in the 3rd -8th. Yes, it does have suggestions to make it academically more appropriate, but your child is doing the same curriculum with mostly the same books.

 

Well.... couple of ideas. Your 8th grader could start high school a year early if you really wanted to. And then be able to do something completely different as a 12th grader. Lots of options on that route.

 

 

As someone who is using the ECC program a second time around, I have a different perspective about the books being used again and whether or not it is just a repeat from 5 years ago. We are using ECC (the same curriculum from 5 years ago), but with many different books and outloooks to be right for this stage.

 

The Science completely changes for the 8th grader doing ECC.

 

There is so much more writing this time around. I'm glad we did the crafts when she was younger and waited on the writing.

 

You will re-do the Window on the World Book --- we look forward to praying for them again -- especially with my oldest child having 5 years to grow up a bit in understanding it all.

 

The reference books (atlas books) do not have to completely change, but you are expected to get extra references for the older student. MFW recommends a high school text book for geography and/or using World Book Enc. on CD. Very different from what a 3rd grader will do.

 

The 2nd time in ECC -- the jr. high student will not only do the continents, but will begin to do a lot more in depth research study of individual countries. Instead of the book World Geography being just used as a teaching tool (the way a 3rd grader would) it becomes a chance to learn Research Skills and have integrated writing lessons.

 

Additionally, there is a whole other set of readers that will be a very different flavor to the 8th grader doing ECC.

 

I really don't think it is the "same" the second time around. Many of younger books in ECC do not have to be re-done with older student unless they want to. They don't have to re-do Global Art or Wee Sing unless you have them teach it to the younger kids. So, it does change quite a bit 5 years later when they are older to reflect a whole new stage of learning. It's great because it then becomes easy to let them have more responsibility.

 

 

 

I like that the writing is integrated with help to teach it (MFW has you do a seperate writing program in 4th grade). Beth

 

Beth,

 

you have me curious now :)

When you say TOG integrates writing --- does it provide actual instruction for writing, or just assignments in writing that are related to history assignments?

One of the reasons that MFW has a separate writing program is to learn the writing skills so that you can complete your notebook assignments that are related to history and science.

:confused:

 

 

I'm just glad there are so many different options out there to be able to fit so many different needs and wants.

 

-crystal

[Melissa in CA]

When you say TOG integrates writing --- does it provide actual instruction for writing, or just assignments in writing that are related to history assignments?

I'm just glad there are so many different options out there to be able to fit so many different needs and wants.

 

-crystal

 

Not Beth but I can comment on this for you. Yes, if you purchase Writing Aids from TOG you will have an integrated writing curriculum WITH instruction and many aids as well such as graphic organizers, etc. If you just purchase the basic TOG year set, without Writing Aids, you will get only writing assignments that go with your history...no instruction. The Writing Aids set is where you get your actual teaching instruction. It's a great resource! :D

[Donna A.]

Not Beth but I can comment on this for you. Yes, if you purchase Writing Aids from TOG you will have an integrated writing curriculum WITH instruction and many aids as well such as graphic organizers, etc. If you just purchase the basic TOG year set, without Writing Aids, you will get only writing assignments that go with your history...no instruction. The Writing Aids set is where you get your actual teaching instruction. It's a great resource! :D

 

Okay, so Writing Aids is an additional purchase with TOG, just as Writing Strands is an additional purchase with MFW... correct?

 

Thanks! I've never been able to figure out how it works with all the required purchases for TOG. With MFW, they have recommendations for math and LA, and those recommendations work well with the overall layout of the program lessons plans, and timeframe in which to get it done (because LA skills are incorporated into the history and Bible lessons, as well). However, some people just don't care for those math and LA recommendations and therefore choose to use their own preferences. MFW is very flexible that way.

[Melissa in CA]

Okay, so Writing Aids is an additional purchase with TOG, just as Writing Strands is an additional purchase with MFW... correct?

 

 

Yes and no. With TOG one does have writing assignments included and many are able to use these assignments without purchasing Writing Aids or a separate writing program. The Writing Aids supplement is mainly a tool to help you, the teacher, teach the writing in TOG.

[seanda]

We do not use Writing Aids.. but it would function as the writing handbook with instruction on types of writing. I already have a writing handbook and find it is enough. We do use Tapestry's assignments that are in their year plans. It has 12 levels of instruction for the writing. One set of weeks you might be working on a newspaper, writing articles on various topic related to the week's studies. Or the assignment might be a speech or an essay on a topic. Younger students might write a descriptive paragraph on the topic of the week. Specific topics are given. If you needed to have a handbook for researching or creating a cluster diagram or on persuasive essays then you would either want a separate handbook or Writing Aids.

[yobella]

My oldest that I'm homeschooling is going in to 2nd grade and my younger is starting K in the fall. Since I have no interest in doing ancients yet, I am going to do MFW Adventures (and some of MFW K-2nd time). If MFW works for us...great! If not....I still have plenty of time to get 2 full cycles of TOG (or whatever else I may choose.)

[Donna A.]

My oldest that I'm homeschooling is going in to 2nd grade and my younger is starting K in the fall. Since I have no interest in doing ancients yet, I am going to do MFW Adventures (and some of MFW K-2nd time). If MFW works for us...great! If not....I still have plenty of time to get 2 full cycles of TOG (or whatever else I may choose.)

 

Yobella, in case you're not aware, let me explain a couple of points (and for the interest of others reading, too).

 

Adventures is a fun, one-year overview of key people, places and events in American history, the 50 states, patriotic songs and symbols, the names and characteristics of Jesus, and simple science experiments that are tied to the names of Jesus. It is NOT an in-depth study of American history. That will come later in years 4 & 5, when American history is spread out over two years to study at a much deeper level with older children, including memorizing an entire book of the Bible, research and writing assignments, more advanced books, etc. Many of these skills are taught within the daily and weekly teacher notes of the TM. Adventures, OTOH, is age-appropriate for approximately 2nd graders (and some 3rd graders) and below.

 

However, you can still get in two full cycles of chronological history by staying with MFW. ECC is a one year countries & cultures study (geography) with a missions and prayer emphasis. (As Crystal explained in an earlier post, this would be done much deeper with older students.) Then after ECC follows two 4-year cycles of chronological history.

 

Also, with MFW, the TMs for K, 1st and ECC are set up differently than Adventures and the other history years. While this doesn't bother some people at all, others sometimes get turned off of MFW because they didn't like the layout of the TMs in the very early years, but it does change according to the focus of the topic(s) being studied. K and 1st are geared to learning how to read (phonics and other beginning math and LA skills), and thus are a completely different layout. ECC is set up geographically (space) rather than chronologically (time). So those are a little different in layout.

 

I just hate to see people throwing out the baby with the bathwater because they didn't like something about one year of a program. That's why I always recommend looking at the *whole* picture.

[yobella]

Yep, gotcha. I'm just saying that with the ages the OP has, she could try MFW at first and if she ever decided she would rather do TOG she would still have plenty of time to get the full use of it. I'm hoping the upper levels of MFW work for us. My daughter enjoyed K and 1st.