Help! Booster seat for lap belt only...

[BatmansWife]

We are buying a used van today. I'm not too thrilled. The only shoulder belts are the two seats up front. The seats in the back all only have lap belts. :glare: I've tried explaining to my dh that little dd, who is still in a booster, can't use her booster with a lap belt only. So....he says she can sit up front. :glare: Well.....that's not recommended either. I know he thinks I'm overly picky. I've been dealing with car seats and booster seats for nearly 20 years. I always try very hard to follow all rules and recommendations.....it's my childs life that's at stake.

 

Sooooo....now what to do?? My dh says he'll look into getting shoulder belts put in the back. I don't think that's gonna happen (I know him). I've been doing a little searching today online, and there are some options for lap belts only. But, it seems that some of them you need a tether (I highly doubt this van has a car seat tether anchor). The nicest booster I've found.....is super pricey. :eek: It says it's, "the only car seat rated for latch use with a child up to 80 pounds." What does "latch use" mean....lap belt only?? Do any of you have only lap belts and what do you use?

 

I know my dd is getting big (old); she's 8.5 this month....I'm not sure at the moment what her weight/height is (I'll check today when she wakes up).....but our state requires kids in boosters:

Age 4 to age 8, between 40-80 lbs., and no more than 4 ft. 9 ins. must be in a booster seat

I know she's way littler than 80 lbs (what exactly does that mean anyway....when you hit 8, that's it; no booster anymore? Or...when you hit 80 pounds...or what? I'm so confused!). And, even if we could get away with no booster now....then what? Sit up in the front with no booster? Sit in the back with lap belt only? This option (no booster) seems worse. I think I'd rather her be in a booster that works with lap belts only. :willy_nilly:

Edited March 20, 2012 by ~AprilMay~

[bagel270]

That's what my laws are in Missouri, and if you only have a lap belt they don't need a booster. The booster is so the shoulder belt is properly positioned.

http://www.modot.org/Safety/NewChildPassengerRestraintLaw.htm

Edited March 20, 2012 by bagel270
added link

[BatmansWife]

That's what my laws are in Missouri, and if you only have a lap belt they don't need a booster. The booster is so the shoulder belt is properly positioned.

 

OK....but what about safety? I have too many scenes in my head of the child flinging forward with a lap belt only....nothing is supporting/holding the upper body. I know we all survived with lap belts only. I just don't know if I can do that (given what we know now about the injuries it can cause).

[BatmansWife]

That's what my laws are in Missouri, and if you only have a lap belt they don't need a booster. The booster is so the shoulder belt is properly positioned.

http://www.modot.org/Safety/NewChildPassengerRestraintLaw.htm

 

Your law says:

 

3. LESS THAN 8 YEARS OLD/80 POUNDS OR UNDER 4'9" - Children (ages 4-7) and who weigh at least 40 pounds but less than 80 pounds, and are less than 4'9" tall must be secured in a child passenger restraint system or booster seat appropriate for that child.

 

4. GREATER THAN 80 POUNDS OR TALLER THAN 4'9" - Children who are at least 80 pounds or children taller than 4'9" shall be secured by a vehicle safety belt or booster seat appropriate for that child.

 

The act allows a child to be transported in back seat without a booster seat if the child is secured with a lap belt if the vehicle is not equipped with combination lap and shoulder belt for booster seat installation.

 

So, it sounds like you don't need a booster once you are 80 pounds or 4'9"....neither of which my dd is close to (assuming our laws mean the same thing). And...then sitting with lap belt only must be after the 80 pounds??

[bagel270]

Looks like a booster seat for over 40 pounds costs about $100. I googled. :001_smile: The latch system is when they have brackets down by the seatbelts to hook the seat onto. If the van doesn't have tethers, sometimes you can get them installed.

[swellmomma]

Latch use is the way of securing a car seat (not a booster) into the car instead of using a seatbelt to do so. SO when you install a 5-pt harness seat you can use the seatbelt and tether to do so, OR you can use the latch system and tether.

 

As for booster, definitely need to find one. And see about having those shoulder belts installed. Hunter was in a lapbelt only in the car wreck last summer. His lap belt loosed as they were rolling and he fell out of it, when the van stopped he was laying on the roof. I have no doubt in my mind that if he had been better secured his leg injuries would not have been as severe. It would have still been broken, but I am sure it is the rolling and him out of his seatbelt that causes the twisting (his foot was facing the wrong way when I got to him).

 

Now there is no way to know for sure that a booster seat would have held him better. And he is a big boy (72 lbs and up to my shoulders at age 8) meaning there is very few boosters that would even be suitable but still better safe than sorry imo.

 

Does the van have front air bags? How big is she?

 

If there is no air bags I would use the front seat until shoulder belts were installed in the back. Children under 12 are not recommended to sit in the front seat due to the air bags. If there is none she would be safer there with the shoulder belt imo than the back seat with only a lap belt.

[Lily_Grace]

This is a safety vest approved to work with lap-only belts as long as you have a place for the top tether. And this is a harness made especially for lapbelt only seating (they sell the anchor kit, too).

[magnificent_baby]

The only safe option sounds like a 5 point booster or car seat. And those only go up to so many pounds. What will you do when she outgrows a 5 point?

 

I am sorry, but I would absolutely refuse to purchase a vehicle without shoulder belts, UNLESS they were installed before using it.

 

I hope your dh thinks this through carefully before making a decision. It wouldn't be as safe for anyone in the back.

[swellmomma]

THese are the kinds of boosters to look at for lapbelt only. They help position the lap belt across the hips properly not across the stomach. They do nothing forupper back support but at least she will be seated correctly.

 

This page talks about lapbelt only seating, and how to retrofit for shoulder belts

[cjzimmer1]

We have a similarly worded seatbelt law. The way it's been explained to me is that they have to meet the MINIMUM of ONE of the three requirements. Either they must be 8 years old, or they must be 80 pounds or they must be 4'9". Not all three.

 

So based on that, legally she wouldn't need a booster. That said I have my almost 9 year old in a booster. But the reason is that we do have shoulder belts and they cut across her neck if we don't elevate her.

 

In your case since you don't have shoulder belts you don't have to worry about that issue. Having a booster with a lap only belt is no safer than a lap only belt. The booster is only used to raised the body up so the shoulder belt is in the correct position. Without a shoulder belt there is no reason to elevate her. I personally have never seen a booster seat for lap belt only. I'd be surprised if you find any because it wouldn't improve safety.

 

As far as options go. Looking into having shoulder belts installed. I know they can retroactively install them in some models. It depends on the age of the vehicle and what options the manufacturer offers.

 

Tethers are an extra hook behind the seat that a strap connects to to help the seat from being thrown forward. My mom doesn't have them in her van and so she secures the tether strap to the seat supports. However, unless you have shoulder straps, you will not likely be using a seat and thus won't need the tether strap either.

[HappyCrazyMama]

IMO, the only safe thing to do aside from installing shoulder harnesses (the best option) is go back to a car seat designed for older children to remain in a 5pt harness. They can often be installed with a lap belt.

http://www.amazon.com/Graco-Nautilus-Car-Seat-Matrix/dp/B0011URFRE/ref=sr_1_1?s=baby-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1332252382&sr=1-1

 

 

• Extended 5-point harness for children 20-65 pounds
  

 

 

 

Here's another -

http://www.amazon.com/Diono-RadianR100-Convertible-Seat-Stone/dp/B005MQR794/ref=sr_1_1?s=baby-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1332252644&sr=1-1

[Lily_Grace]

 

In your case since you don't have shoulder belts you don't have to worry about that issue. Having a booster with a lap only belt is no safer than a lap only belt. The booster is only used to raised the body up so the shoulder belt is in the correct position. Without a shoulder belt there is no reason to elevate her. I personally have never seen a booster seat for lap belt only. I'd be surprised if you find any because it wouldn't improve safety.

 

 

 

This is not true.

 

The purpose of raising a child in a booster is twofold: proper placement of the shoulder harness and proper placement of the lapbelt. The belt should sit across the hipbones. In young children, the belt rides too high on the abdomen and can cause damage to the organs during a crash.

[swellmomma]

This is not true.

 

The purpose of raising a child in a booster is twofold: proper placement of the shoulder harness and proper placement of the lapbelt. The belt should sit across the hipbones. In young children, the belt rides too high on the abdomen and can cause damage to the organs during a crash.

 

:iagree:

[raceNzanesmom]

Hello- car seat tech here. You have some good info given, and some misinformation. A lap belt is not a safe option for anyone. A booster can NOT be used with a lap only belt. All it would do is lift the center of gravity causing more damage in a crash. A lap belt alone isn't safe either because there's no upper body protection- for anyone, IDC if you're 8 or 80. If there's any possible way to buy a different vehicle I highly recommend it. A van that old is likely to have high maintenance costs. It would cheaper/safer to get a smaller vehicle with at least outboard shoulder belts. If you do get this vehicle, then I would look at getting a top tether installed and at least one retrofitted shoulder belt. If you list the make/model/year I'll try to help.

 

This is a safety vest approved to work with lap-only belts as long as you have a place for the top tether. And this is a harness made especially for lap belt only seating (they sell the anchor kit, too).

 

These are both good options.

 

 

 

These are the kinds of boosters to look at for lap belt only. They help position the lap belt across the hips properly not across the stomach. They do nothing for upper back support but at least she will be seated correctly.

 

This page talks about lap belt only seating, and how to retrofit for shoulder belts

 

These backless boosters ALL need a lap AND shoulder belt to use.

 

This is not true.

 

The purpose of raising a child in a booster is twofold: proper placement of the shoulder harness and proper placement of the lap belt. The belt should sit across the hipbones. In young children, the belt rides too high on the abdomen and can cause damage to the organs during a crash.

 

Correct. To use a booster you need a lap AND shoulder belt so they can work together to protect the occupant.

 

At her age, She's not likely to fit in a harnessed car seat like the Nautilus or Radian. Even if she's under the weight limits, she's likely too tall.

 

I'm here to help, and have other resources I can contact. Post here or PM me.

 

Blessings.

[BatmansWife]

Looks like a booster seat for over 40 pounds costs about $100. I googled. :001_smile: The latch system is when they have brackets down by the seatbelts to hook the seat onto. If the van doesn't have tethers, sometimes you can get them installed.

 

Apparently I've never heard of a latch system.

 

Latch use is the way of securing a car seat (not a booster) into the car instead of using a seatbelt to do so. SO when you install a 5-pt harness seat you can use the seatbelt and tether to do so, OR you can use the latch system and tether.

 

As for booster, definitely need to find one. And see about having those shoulder belts installed. Hunter was in a lapbelt only in the car wreck last summer. His lap belt loosed as they were rolling and he fell out of it, when the van stopped he was laying on the roof. I have no doubt in my mind that if he had been better secured his leg injuries would not have been as severe. It would have still been broken, but I am sure it is the rolling and him out of his seatbelt that causes the twisting (his foot was facing the wrong way when I got to him).

 

Now there is no way to know for sure that a booster seat would have held him better. And he is a big boy (72 lbs and up to my shoulders at age 8) meaning there is very few boosters that would even be suitable but still better safe than sorry imo.

 

Does the van have front air bags? How big is she?

 

If there is no air bags I would use the front seat until shoulder belts were installed in the back. Children under 12 are not recommended to sit in the front seat due to the air bags. If there is none she would be safer there with the shoulder belt imo than the back seat with only a lap belt.

 

I don't know if it has air bags yet. I pretty much doubt it. When I asked my dh he about blew a gasket. I know that if it does have a passenger side air bag then she won't sit there. I don't know her height/weight. She's been sick (I bet she's lost a pound or two being sick) so she hasn't gotten up yet. I'm letting her rest. I will report that info in a little while.

 

This is a safety vest approved to work with lap-only belts as long as you have a place for the top tether. And this is a harness made especially for lapbelt only seating (they sell the anchor kit, too).

 

What is a top tether? I mean....I know what the tether is. But, does top mean it anchors to the ceiling?

 

The only safe option sounds like a 5 point booster or car seat. And those only go up to so many pounds. What will you do when she outgrows a 5 point?

 

I am sorry, but I would absolutely refuse to purchase a vehicle without shoulder belts, UNLESS they were installed before using it.

 

I hope your dh thinks this through carefully before making a decision. It wouldn't be as safe for anyone in the back.

 

I don't have the option to refuse it. I've been in extreme anxiety about this ever since he told me a few days ago (haven't slept very well the last few nights). I had no idea he was even thinking of getting a van. He had been looking at trucks for work. Next thing I know he says he's getting this van so he can haul ladders, pull a trailer, and all 5 of us can fit in it to go places together (our vehicle now only seats 4). He's been po'd with me from the beginning because I questioned about the lap/shoulder belts and said lap belts aren't safe for anyone....and what about dd's booster? He said "the most important people can sit up front" with the shoulder belts then. :glare: My dd's been upset too saying to me, "But...I'm not supposed to sit in the front seat."

 

THese are the kinds of boosters to look at for lapbelt only. They help position the lap belt across the hips properly not across the stomach. They do nothing forupper back support but at least she will be seated correctly.

 

This page talks about lapbelt only seating, and how to retrofit for shoulder belts

 

I totally cringe at the thought of those boosters.....because you are right; no upper body support....just like the lap belt. I never, ever, ever would allow to use those. I can't even believe I have to go through this booster seat h*ll again! :crying:

[BatmansWife]

We have a similarly worded seatbelt law. The way it's been explained to me is that they have to meet the MINIMUM of ONE of the three requirements. Either they must be 8 years old, or they must be 80 pounds or they must be 4'9". Not all three.

 

So based on that, legally she wouldn't need a booster. That said I have my almost 9 year old in a booster. But the reason is that we do have shoulder belts and they cut across her neck if we don't elevate her.

 

In your case since you don't have shoulder belts you don't have to worry about that issue. Having a booster with a lap only belt is no safer than a lap only belt. The booster is only used to raised the body up so the shoulder belt is in the correct position. Without a shoulder belt there is no reason to elevate her. I personally have never seen a booster seat for lap belt only. I'd be surprised if you find any because it wouldn't improve safety.The old style boosters, which were/are just a bottom seat, are not any safer with a lap belt only than just a lap belt. That I agree. But, there are newer booster seats that fit older kids that have a 5 point harness system, which can be secured with a lap belt only. Problem is...they seem to be expensive. And....my dd might reach the height requirement far sooner than she would reach the maximum weight requirement.

 

As far as options go. Looking into having shoulder belts installed. I know they can retroactively install them in some models. It depends on the age of the vehicle and what options the manufacturer offers.

 

Tethers are an extra hook behind the seat that a strap connects to to help the seat from being thrown forward. My mom doesn't have them in her van and so she secures the tether strap to the seat supports. However, unless you have shoulder straps, you will not likely be using a seat and thus won't need the tether strap either. How does she secure it to the seat support? I would consider the tether with a vest, not a seat.

 

IMO, the only safe thing to do aside from installing shoulder harnesses (the best option) is go back to a car seat designed for older children to remain in a 5pt harness. They can often be installed with a lap belt.

http://www.amazon.com/Graco-Nautilus-Car-Seat-Matrix/dp/B0011URFRE/ref=sr_1_1?s=baby-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1332252382&sr=1-1

 

 

Here's another -

http://www.amazon.com/Diono-RadianR100-Convertible-Seat-Stone/dp/B005MQR794/ref=sr_1_1?s=baby-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1332252644&sr=1-1

 

I'll look carefully at the links. I think the second one was the one I was considering. But I have to find out the maximum height requirements because I know dd will reach that before the maximum weight requirement.

 

Hello- car seat tech here. You have some good info given, and some misinformation. A lap belt is not a safe option for anyone. A booster can NOT be used with a lap only belt. All it would do is lift the center of gravity causing more damage in a crash. A lap belt alone isn't safe either because there's no upper body protection- for anyone, IDC if you're 8 or 80. If there's any possible way to buy a different vehicle I highly recommend it. A van that old is likely to have high maintenance costs. It would cheaper/safer to get a smaller vehicle with at least outboard shoulder belts. If you do get this vehicle, then I would look at getting a top tether installed and at least one retrofitted shoulder belt. If you list the make/model/year I'll try to help.

 

 

 

These are both good options.

 

 

 

 

 

These backless boosters ALL need a lap AND shoulder belt to use.

 

 

 

Correct. To use a booster you need a lap AND shoulder belt so they can work together to protect the occupant.

 

At her age, She's not likely to fit in a harnessed car seat like the Nautilus or Radian. Even if she's under the weight limits, she's likely too tall.

 

I'm here to help, and have other resources I can contact. Post here or PM me.

 

Blessings.

 

I'm glad you are here. I agree completely with the bolded. *I* don't want to sit with a lap belt only......let alone my kids!! That's why this is making me physically ill. :crying: I only know that it's a '91 Chevy conversion van. I'll know more tonight when we go get it. I know what the tether is, but what is "top" tether....does that mean it's anchored to the ceiling (I saw someones link with a diagram of that)? I'm discouraged that she might not fit in the 5 point boosters that go to 80 pounds. I know she's far, far from that weight....but I can't find where they list the maximum height requirement. :confused: I'll pm you later tonight or tomorrow when I find out more specifics on the kind of van. Thank you!

Edited March 20, 2012 by ~AprilMay~

[SonshineLearner]

No way... I'd wait to buy a van, rather than lap belt only. One option that you have is to spend about $500 for two car seats that are for bigger kids. I think that lap belt could work for kids that are that age... for a 5 pt car seat.... (Britax would be one)

[swellmomma]

These backless boosters ALL need a lap AND shoulder belt to use.

 

 

I didn't know that. That is the kind I used with my oldest back when he was in a booster and we had lap only belts. THough I guess after all these years I should have realized that things had changed with those boosters like they had with everything else car seat related.

[BatmansWife]

This is a safety vest approved to work with lap-only belts as long as you have a place for the top tether. And this is a harness made especially for lapbelt only seating (they sell the anchor kit, too).

 

I really like the first one, but I'd need a tether anchor thing....I don't know if you can buy them and install them yourself (to the floor? To the ceiling? I have no clue!)??

 

The second one looks to me like the child must be 66 pounds. Am I looking at that correctly? I don't think dd weighs that much. Well........wait let me go check, she's up. I'll update in a minute.

[Princess Peach]

There is no way I'd purchase that vehicle. It would not even be an option for us. I'm unable to understand your DH's reasoning. Do you find certain people in your family more important than others? It's just...odd. :confused:

[BatmansWife]

No way... I'd wait to buy a van, rather than lap belt only. One option that you have is to spend about $500 for two car seats that are for bigger kids. I think that lap belt could work for kids that are that age... for a 5 pt car seat.... (Britax would be one)

 

I just need one booster seat......or a vest if I had an tether/anchor.

Edited March 20, 2012 by ~AprilMay~

[BatmansWife]

There is no way I'd purchase that vehicle. It would not even be an option for us. I'm unable to understand your DH's reasoning. Do you find certain people in your family more important than others? It's just...odd. :confused:

 

If I had any say in the matter....there is no way that I'd purchase it either...believe me. Some (most...maybe all) of you are blessed with having a back and forth normal conversation with a dh who is a nice person...and you could say no way. I can't. I've really never been able to express any difference of opinion. I've tried and it gives me nothing but trouble. I think my dh meant that a little bit sarcastically. He said he'd sit in the back with a lap belt only because he's not important. I could drive and dd up front. But....then what about ds....and older dd?? Who knows what that man thinks! Not that I'm dh bashing or anything.......

Edited March 20, 2012 by ~AprilMay~

[Princess Peach]

If I had any say in the matter....there is no way that I'd purchase it either...believe me. I'm afraid some of you who are blessed with having a back and forth normal converstion with a dh who is a nice person could say no way. I can't. I've tried and it gives me nothing but trouble. I think my dh meant that a little bit sarcastically. He said he'd sit in the back with a lap belt only because he's not important. I could drive and dd up front. But....then what about ds....and older dd. Who knows what that man thinks! Not that I'm dh bashing or anything.......

 

Ok, I'm sorry. And I hope you get this worked out. :grouphug:

[aggieamy]

There is no way I'd purchase that vehicle. It would not even be an option for us. I'm unable to understand your DH's reasoning. Do you find certain people in your family more important than others? It's just...odd. :confused:

 

:iagree:

 

This is a hill I would die on. There's no way I'd put my child in that vehicle and if he wanted to drive it then I'd drive the other car seperately and meet him at wherever he wanted to go. It is not safe.

[HappyCrazyMama]

:iagree:

This is a hill I would die on. There's no way I'd put my child in that vehicle and if he wanted to drive it then I'd drive the other car separately and meet him at wherever he wanted to go. It is not safe.

:iagree:You may not be able to change his mind, reason with him or argue with him but you can refuse to get in the vehicle. :grouphug: Safety is more important than having a vehicle that can be used multipurposely.

[In the Rain]

I don't know if you can buy them and install them yourself (to the floor? To the ceiling? I have no clue!)

 

We have had car seat techs tether a car seat to an actual van seat, where it attaches to the van floor. It was a rear facing car seat, tethered to the front passenger seat base. Does that make sense?

 

That was a long time ago, so I don't know if it is still done that way. If so, maybe you could tether a 5 point harness to a van seat. I'm sorry your dh doesn't see the safety issue the way you do. :confused: That must be hard. :grouphug:

[In the Rain]

There's no way I'd put my child in that vehicle and if he wanted to drive it then I'd drive the other car seperately and meet him at wherever he wanted to go. It is not safe.

 

:iagree: about driving separately. Yes, it is inconvenient, and gas is pricey, but we have done it before. We borrowed an RV from a friend, but dh didn't think it was safe for the kids to travel in it. I followed along in our car to the camping spot. Even if your youngest dd can be put in a 5 pt harness that is tethered, there is the matter of your older children. :confused:

[BatmansWife]

:iagree:

 

This is a hill I would die on. There's no way I'd put my child in that vehicle and if he wanted to drive it then I'd drive the other car seperately and meet him at wherever he wanted to go. It is not safe.

 

:iagree: about driving separately. Yes, it is inconvenient, and gas is pricey, but we have done it before. We borrowed an RV from a friend, but dh didn't think it was safe for the kids to travel in it. I followed along in our car to the camping spot. Even if your youngest dd can be put in a 5 pt harness that is tethered, there is the matter of your older children. :confused:

 

Which, ironically, is a reason he wants it. Right now if we all go somewhere we have to drive two vehicles.

[fhjmom]

:iagree:

 

This is a hill I would die on. There's no way I'd put my child in that vehicle and if he wanted to drive it then I'd drive the other car seperately and meet him at wherever he wanted to go. It is not safe.

 

I agree. Lap belts are not safe for anyone. I would consider the van a two-seat vehicle. For the sake I my children's safety, there is no way I would agree to use this van as a family vehicle. If he wants it for work, fine, but I would drive separately when transporting children.

 

Sorry, I realize from your posts that puts you in a bad situation but 8 just can't recommend any other option.

[BatmansWife]

My dd is 45 pounds and 49.75" tall (with barefeet).

 

ETA: So if our somewhat obscure law says:

 

Age 4 to age 8, between 40-80 lbs., and no more than 4 ft. 9 ins. must be in a booster seat

 

then it looks like she needs to be in a booster for awhile.

ETA again: But...then again....she's over 8.

Edited March 20, 2012 by ~AprilMay~

[Krista in LA]

Hello- car seat tech here. You have some good info given, and some misinformation. A lap belt is not a safe option for anyone. A booster can NOT be used with a lap only belt. All it would do is lift the center of gravity causing more damage in a crash. A lap belt alone isn't safe either because there's no upper body protection- for anyone, IDC if you're 8 or 80. If there's any possible way to buy a different vehicle I highly recommend it. A van that old is likely to have high maintenance costs. It would cheaper/safer to get a smaller vehicle with at least outboard shoulder belts. If you do get this vehicle, then I would look at getting a top tether installed and at least one retrofitted shoulder belt.

 

:iagree: with everything. Just want to stress about the lap belts not being safe for anyone. When I took my car seat certification class, we watched videos that showed what happened to a passenger in a lap belt only and it wasn't pretty. One can be ejected or have spinal cord injury by using a lap only belt. I won't allow *anyone* to ever ride in the middle of the back row of my minivan because it's a lap only belt. The other thing I wanted to point out is that in vans that don't have a tether anchor, you can generally tether a seat by running the tether strap over the back of the seat and then hooking it onto the metal frame of the seat at the bottom, near where it is attached to the floor. It's been a few years since I was certified, so it's possible that this has changed.

[In the Rain]

Which, ironically, is a reason he wants it. Right now if we all go somewhere we have to drive two vehicles.

 

Since you've already been driving separately, can you tell your dh that you will continue to do so?

[Lolly]

My 2 cents: it sounds like this van is happening. You need the best arrangement you can get go be at top safety. I am not a carseat tech. I have dealt with a lot of carseats. I don't think you are going to need to worry about airbags, but even if it did have them I would use this same configuration. Dd2 in booster in front. She is the smallest and most likely to receive the worst damage from wearing a lapbelt. The booster plus a shoulder harness can even be used in the front seat with airbags. It is just a hair more danger than being in the back with the booster and shoulder belt. Other than that, you really don't have any option of using the lapbelts for the rest of the backseat passengers. Now, take a deep breath and realize that the vast majority of people rode in cars with no seat belts for many, many years with no harm coming to them. Most seat belts and car seats do not ever come into play. They are for that tiny amount of time when something goes wrong. Yes, it would be best if there were shoulder belts. If you can, get them. If not, you are going to have to...suck it up and use what you have. (Meaning to sound funny, not mean.);)

[Veritaserum]

We have two Radians (an r120 and an r100). The upper height limit is 57". From what I was reading the other day, Radian lets you use the seat even if the top shoulder slots are below the child's shoulders as long as the child is within the height and weight limits. The weight limit for forward-facing harness is I think 80 lbs.? So this seat would work until she meets the height and weight recommendations for the law.

 

Top tether means the top of the car seat has a tether that anchors to the car. Our top tether anchors have all been in the van's floor. In a sedan the anchors are in the rear dashboard.

 

I agree with those who say to die on this hill. This van does not sound safe. :( I'm sorry your husband won't listen to you.

[StephanieF]

We had a lap belt in the middle seat in the back. We got a proper belt fitted very easily

Stephanie

[BatmansWife]

:iagree: with everything. Just want to stress about the lap belts not being safe for anyone. When I took my car seat certification class, we watched videos that showed what happened to a passenger in a lap belt only and it wasn't pretty. One can be ejected or have spinal cord injury by using a lap only belt. I won't allow *anyone* to ever ride in the middle of the back row of my minivan because it's a lap only belt. The other thing I wanted to point out is that in vans that don't have a tether anchor, you can generally tether a seat by running the tether strap over the back of the seat and then hooking it onto the metal frame of the seat at the bottom, near where it is attached to the floor. It's been a few years since I was certified, so it's possible that this has changed.

 

Is there something on the metal frame that you hook it on to? Well, I'll look tonight and see.

 

My 2 cents: it sounds like this van is happening. You need the best arrangement you can get go be at top safety. I am not a carseat tech. I have dealt with a lot of carseats. I don't think you are going to need to worry about airbags, but even if it did have them I would use this same configuration. Dd2 in booster in front. She is the smallest and most likely to receive the worst damage from wearing a lapbelt. The booster plus a shoulder harness can even be used in the front seat with airbags. It is just a hair more danger than being in the back with the booster and shoulder belt. Other than that, you really don't have any option of using the lapbelts for the rest of the backseat passengers. Now, take a deep breath and realize that the vast majority of people rode in cars with no seat belts for many, many years with no harm coming to them. Most seat belts and car seats do not ever come into play. They are for that tiny amount of time when something goes wrong. Yes, it would be best if there were shoulder belts. If you can, get them. If not, you are going to have to...suck it up and use what you have. (Meaning to sound funny, not mean.);)

 

Yes....it sounds like the van is happening. I can't put a stop to it. I appreciate your words because it's hard to hear everyone telling me to just stand up and say no.....or even to refuse to get in it once he gets it. I can just imagine how that would go over. It really isn't always an option for some people and I don't really want to keep hearing it. I just wanted options for what to get to make this as safe as I can.

We have two Radians (an r120 and an r100). The upper height limit is 57". From what I was reading the other day, Radian lets you use the seat even if the top shoulder slots are below the child's shoulders as long as the child is within the height and weight limits. The weight limit for forward-facing harness is I think 80 lbs.? So this seat would work until she meets the height and weight recommendations for the law.

 

Top tether means the top of the car seat has a tether that anchors to the car. Our top tether anchors have all been in the van's floor. In a sedan the anchors are in the rear dashboard.

 

I agree with those who say to die on this hill. This van does not sound safe. :( I'm sorry your husband won't listen to you.

 

Thank you for posting. I was hoping to hear from anyone with the seats I was looking at. So...my dd would have a little over 6" before outgrowing it then (how quick does one grow 6"??). Is that price on Amazon a fair price (or is there some place cheaper)? It's my understanding that a child would use the 5 point with the lap belt but *not* also with the tether. Is that true....or do I need the tether too?

[BatmansWife]

We had a lap belt in the middle seat in the back. We got a proper belt fitted very easily

Stephanie

 

How and where? I need more details. :001_smile:

[magnificent_baby]

I am sorry you are in this situation. Like others, I would not allow my children to ride in that vehicle. I hope you can find an easy and safe solution. My dh and I don't always see eye to eye on safety issues either, but this is one where I would put my foot down.

 

:grouphug:

[Veritaserum]

Thank you for posting. I was hoping to hear from anyone with the seats I was looking at. So...my dd would have a little over 6" before outgrowing it then (how quick does one grow 6"??). Is that price on Amazon a fair price (or is there some place cheaper)? It's my understanding that a child would use the 5 point with the lap belt but *not* also with the tether. Is that true....or do I need the tether too?

 

I use the top tether in addition to installing the seat with a belt, but you don't have to use the top tether. The belt installation is essential. That's what keeps the seat attached to the van's seat. With the Radian installed via belt, the child is secured via the harness. My 7yo is similar in size to your dd and mine can fit comfortably in the r100.

 

I bought mine from Just Kids Store because they had a better price than Amazon at the time. Since you won't be using the seat rear-facing for an infant, I suggest the r100. It is less expensive than the r120 and there are no differences I can see for forward-facing with a harness.

 

ETA:

Here's the link to Just Kids Store. I had good experiences both times I ordered seats from them. I bought my Radians last month.

http://www.justkidsstore.com/prod/diono/radian-r100-car-seat/dune

Edited March 20, 2012 by Veritaserum

[DusksAngel]

I have one of the SafeRider Vests for my son, it's really easy to use.

 

A top tether may actually be in the ceiling or on the floor, although if it's an older van it probably doesn't have either. Depending on the make/model, some companies will put them in for free, one for free, or for a set price. The best thing to do would be to find out the make/model/year of van and then call the company and ask about installing tethers. They can then tell you where to take the van to have the work done.

[SailorMom]

Ok - so since this is happening anyway - let's all chill.:chillpill:

There were no shoulder belts when I was growing up, and the cars we had when I was really young didn't have belts at all. I remember bouncing all over the place in the back of a jeep and a station wagon. Yet I can't think of a single kid I grew up with getting injured in an accident.

I'm not saying the van is ideal - and I'm pretty picky about seats with my kids as well - but it also isn't a "hill to die on".

Of course you should do what you can to make the van as safe as you can but don't make yourself sick over it.:grouphug:

Look at how many of us turned out ok :) Also - people still ride in RV's with no belts.... Bigger vehicles (like vans) seem less likely to get in accidents to begin with simply because other drivers see them better. I'm not saying i have facts to back this up - just my musings - but is it possible that smaller vehicles with shoulder belts are less safe than a big van with lap belts? I mean - it depends on the type of accident. I'd rather have that van than a Geo Metro with shoulder belts.

[swellmomma]

Ok - so since this is happening anyway - let's all chill.:chillpill:

There were no shoulder belts when I was growing up, and the cars we had when I was really young didn't have belts at all. I remember bouncing all over the place in the back of a jeep and a station wagon. Yet I can't think of a single kid I grew up with getting injured in an accident.

I'm not saying the van is ideal - and I'm pretty picky about seats with my kids as well - but it also isn't a "hill to die on".

Of course you should do what you can to make the van as safe as you can but don't make yourself sick over it.:grouphug:

Look at how many of us turned out ok :) Also - people still ride in RV's with no belts.... Bigger vehicles (like vans) seem less likely to get in accidents to begin with simply because other drivers see them better. I'm not saying i have facts to back this up - just my musings - but is it possible that smaller vehicles with shoulder belts are less safe than a big van with lap belts? I mean - it depends on the type of accident. I'd rather have that van than a Geo Metro with shoulder belts.

 

 

I agree that this is happening so supporting the OP is paramount but I get where other's are coming from. I was relaxed about it until ds's accident. He was in a big van. A big 12 passenger one. The shoulder belt he was supposed to use wouldn't come down so they moved him into a lapbelt. He told them he wasn't allowed to use one. In the end moving seats saved his life. But just using a lapbelt wasn't the safest thing either. The semi that hit them saw them just fine. He just didn't care to follow the rules of the road. Yes in their accident the van held up better than a little car, no doubt about it. But I also remember being told by the EMTs that they thought ds's back was broken. I remember seeing his leg twisted around. I remember laying in the dirt holding his hand unable to help him when he was in so much pain. Everyone else walked away with a couple scrapes and bruises. DS8 was the only one with no shoulder belt. He was the most severely hurt. Now given where the impact was, using the shoulder belt on the side would have resulted in his death. But if there had been a shoulder belt in the center were he was I highly doubt his injuries would have been so severe. At this point it absolutely would be a hill to die on. Last July it really wasn't until I was laying in the dirt praying my son would be okay. Yes majority of the time you and your kids are just fine driving around. Yes for decades we grew up with no seatbelts at all or only lapbelts. But who wants to risk their child will be that one that is injured or killed because they didn't have the right kind of seatbelt.

[Veritaserum]

Shoot, I got mixed up. The Radian RXT and R120 have the forward-facing harness up to 80 lbs.

 

R120:

http://us.diono.com/en/car-seats/radian-r120

 

RXT:

http://us.diono.com/en/car-seats/radian-rxt

 

R100 uses the harness up to 65 lbs., though, and your dd is likely to outgrow by height by that point anyway. If you are worried that she might go over 65 lbs. before she reaches 57", get the R120.

 

R100:

http://us.diono.com/en/car-seats/radian-r100

Edited March 20, 2012 by Veritaserum

[fhjmom]

Is there something on the metal frame that you hook it on to? Well, I'll look tonight and see.

 

 

 

Yes....it sounds like the van is happening. I can't put a stop to it. I appreciate your words because it's hard to hear everyone telling me to just stand up and say no.....or even to refuse to get in it once he gets it. I can just imagine how that would go over. It really isn't always an option for some people and I don't really want to keep hearing it. I just wanted options for what to get to make this as safe as I can.

 

I realize you are in a very tough situation. I am sorry for that. There have been three car seat techs respond on this thread (I am a former tech, but didn't state that in my original response). Those three all said this van is not safe with lap belts. The safest option is to for DH to buy the van for work and let him know you will continue to drive separately. You do have another option rather than to put your family in this van (continue as you are doing now) and that is what I would do. There really is no way to make this vehicle safe with lap belts only for all of your children/passengers. I know that is not the answer you want to hear, but it is the truth. You might also ask you DH to price having should belts installed, since he already promised to do that, and he may find it is actually a better deal to spend a little more on a different vehicle with shoulder belts already standard.

 

Stating that in the past people rode with lap belts only, no seat belts, or no child restraints really isn't a valid argument in my opinion, because now that we know better, we do better. The law is also a moot point because the law is not really in line with best practice. You asked about safety, which is best practice and not just satisfying the law. Anyway, your younger daughter will be outgrowing any type of child restraint soon and a lap belt will not be safe for her either.

 

I am truly sorry you are in this position and I would feel sick as well. I just cannot imagine giving in to such selfishness over the safety of my children though. I don't care who it is. I am sorry!

[ravinlunachick]

I really, really, REALLY dislike the "we did XYZ and WE turned out just fine!" argument. I happen to know several kids who did NOT survive or who were seriously injured in car accidents due to lack of basic safety. :( My own dh was toothless from 18mos to 6yo because his father thought car seats were silly and he'd be just fine. That didn't work so well when he had to slam on brakes unexpectedly, and dh flew up headfirst into the dash.

 

AprilMay, I realize how difficult this must be for you. I'm sorry that there isn't an easy solution for you. Please listen to the carseat techs. Perhaps your local Sheriff's Office has a CPST (child passenger safety technician) on staff who can inspect the van and be an "official" voice to your dh. I've had one who was willing to come to my house to inspect our seats, so that I didn't have to drive with my kids in a potentially unsafe situation.

 

I wish you luck and peace in your decision.

Edited March 20, 2012 by ravinlunachick

[Lily_Grace]

Ok - so since this is happening anyway - let's all chill.:chillpill:

There were no shoulder belts when I was growing up, and the cars we had when I was really young didn't have belts at all. I remember bouncing all over the place in the back of a jeep and a station wagon. Yet I can't think of a single kid I grew up with getting injured in an accident.

I'm not saying the van is ideal - and I'm pretty picky about seats with my kids as well - but it also isn't a "hill to die on".

Of course you should do what you can to make the van as safe as you can but don't make yourself sick over it.:grouphug:

Look at how many of us turned out ok :) Also - people still ride in RV's with no belts.... Bigger vehicles (like vans) seem less likely to get in accidents to begin with simply because other drivers see them better. I'm not saying i have facts to back this up - just my musings - but is it possible that smaller vehicles with shoulder belts are less safe than a big van with lap belts? I mean - it depends on the type of accident. I'd rather have that van than a Geo Metro with shoulder belts.

 

I think this logic is only valid if you are comparing survival/injury rates of lap belts to current safety standards. Otherwise the "we did it and are fine" mentality is, well, illogical.

 

My parents had a rollover accident in a van, both kids in car seats in the 70's. They probably wouldn't have survived otherwise. I'd have to say if I was in the OP's position I'd put my foot down. My husband may have the right to buy the car, but I have the right to protect my children as I see fit and make sure that I am doing what I can to keep them from the possibility of mortal danger. But I'm not in the OP's position and there are other ways of protecting kids. The 5pt harness installed is a great temporary option, but again, needs to be done before kids step foot in.

[BatmansWife]

I have one of the SafeRider Vests for my son, it's really easy to use.

 

A top tether may actually be in the ceiling or on the floor, although if it's an older van it probably doesn't have either. Depending on the make/model, some companies will put them in for free, one for free, or for a set price. The best thing to do would be to find out the make/model/year of van and then call the company and ask about installing tethers. They can then tell you where to take the van to have the work done.

 

Thanks for this information. I will call and see what they say.

 

Shoot, I got mixed up. The Radian RXT and R120 have the forward-facing harness up to 80 lbs.

 

R120:

http://us.diono.com/en/car-seats/radian-r120

 

RXT:

http://us.diono.com/en/car-seats/radian-rxt

 

R100 uses the harness up to 65 lbs., though, and your dd is likely to outgrow by height by that point anyway. If you are worried that she might go over 65 lbs. before she reaches 57", get the R120.

 

R100:

http://us.diono.com/en/car-seats/radian-r100

 

Thank you. I wouldn't have known.

[Pretty in Pink]

I realize you are in a very tough situation. I am sorry for that. There have been three car seat techs respond on this thread (I am a former tech, but didn't state that in my original response). Those three all said this van is not safe with lap belts. The safest option is to for DH to buy the van for work and let him know you will continue to drive separately. You do have another option rather than to put your family in this van (continue as you are doing now) and that is what I would do. There really is no way to make this vehicle safe with lap belts only for all of your children/passengers. I know that is not the answer you want to hear, but it is the truth. You might also ask you DH to price having should belts installed, since he already promised to do that, and he may find it is actually a better deal to spend a little more on a different vehicle with shoulder belts already standard.

 

Stating that in the past people rode with lap belts only, no seat belts, or no child restraints really isn't a valid argument in my opinion, because now that we know better, we do better. The law is also a moot point because the law is not really in line with best practice. You asked about safety, which is best practice and not just satisfying the law. Anyway, your younger daughter will be outgrowing any type of child restraint soon and a lap belt will not be safe for her either.

 

I am truly sorry you are in this position and I would feel sick as well. I just cannot imagine giving in to such selfishness over the safety of my children though. I don't care who it is. I am sorry!

 

Sorry OP, but I have to agree. I don't understand why refusing to ride is not an option, especially given that you have another vehicle. :confused: It may not be an option that pleases your dh, but it is an option.

 

It sucks that you are in this position. :grouphug:

[fraidycat]

Clek Olli are the best backless boosters, IMO.

 

They also rate high in the safety ratings.

[courtney.byrum]

Clek Olli are the best backless boosters, IMO.

 

They also rate high in the safety ratings.

 

But they still need to be used with a shoulder belt - no backless booster should be used with just a lap belt.

Edited March 20, 2012 by CourtneyB