How does one provide a classical education? Circe Institute lovers?

[Andrew Kern]

No offense to everybody else, but this post has given me more happiness than almost any other I have ever read!!:001_smile::):D:bigear::lol::)

 

Goodness, thank you all. I want to say how the simple "Should _______ have _______." has led to so much discussion already. I have always felt so much pressure to get through the read aloud time. Faster,faster,more,more. Well no more. We can't do it all so I'm letting that go and going for enjoyment, discussion and relationship. I quit trying to direct dd at the library and let her get the loads of beautiful fairy tales. If the messages contain truths it shouldn't matter she's 8 and too old. DS and I got from Rikki Tikki Tavi to Civil Disobedience and moral dilemma today. That's not in curriculum.

[Andrew Kern]

My soul is swelling so I have to post this:

 

I believe our country is in great moral peril right now and that the moral peril is playing itself in and through our schools: public, private, and parochial.

 

But I have come to believe that what you are doing as home school parents is the best thing that has ever happened to education in our country. EVER.

 

Think of this simple fact: if our people are brought to a state of intellectual, artistic, cultural, and even spiritual flourishing it will because of one thing:

 

The unspeakable love of hundreds of thousands of individual mothers for their own particular children (natal and adopted), and their refusal to conform to the ways of the world dying outside their doors.

 

I cannot express strongly enough how grateful I am to you as a father, a grandfather, an American, a Christian, and a classical educator.

 

May God bless and enrich every single one of you - and your children through you.

 

THANK YOU!!

[Bang!Zoom!]

A book category is the first one I thought of.

 

A section for audio releases. I think a discussion area for those two would be enough to blow the servers to start. :)

 

You see how some of us are listening to different talks and it's getting all muddied up as we cross reference pieces of each?

 

Conferences

 

....and I'm not sure what this might be called, but a place where people could "find" each other locally, or even at the regional level so that they can self-gather and connect...

 

My thoughts are not fine tuned today; but those are some of the early thoughts I had when I read the question of what to include.

[Connections]

I listened to that talk again, last night and took notes. I know I'm going to have to listen to it over and over, because every time I've landed on another Must Write Down portion (thankfully you can rewind!).

 

Another unbelievable fascinating one is Andrew Pudwea's on Memorization and repetition. He's actually really funny, too, so it's even harder because some of his best bits are making you laugh and you forget to jot them down (his talk on Boys, too, is excellent).

 

It is true, you have to let your subconscious take it in and that takes time.

 

Would you mind linking the Pudwea talk on memorization and repetition that you mention?

 

I vote that all references to great audio lectures and books that will inspire me should be linked in the post in which they are mentioned. This way, I won't miss anything and I can spend more time listening and reading and less time searching. (I know, that's incredibly selfish of me because really none of us has "extra" time, right? But please, if you are so inclined, please do include a link!)

[OrdinaryTime]

I wanted to post this in case any of these ideas might help someone else.

 

In my un-quiet thoughts, I have tried to pick up multiple books to read, absorb, ponder. I haven't been able to concentrate on any of them, and thus, I keep picking up a different one to see if it will quiet my thoughts. Unfortunately, not one of the ones I had in front of me managed to turn from print to penetrating words. So, I went and picked back up a book I had already been reading by an author that never fails to ground me while simultaneously growing my understanding (Kreeft) and I started back at the beginning. I needed "repeat" information instead of something new. I am so glad that I did b/c my take-away from the words are quieting my thoughts b/c they are helping clarifying my "whats."

 

Kreeft spends many pages discussing metaphysics and the connection between Platonism and Symbolism. Then he turns to Lewis and quotes, "All visible things exist just in so far as they succeed in imitating the Forms……[A Platonic myth] reminds you of something you can't quite place. I think the something is 'the whole quality of life as we actually experience it.'"

 

Kreeft then continues, "The most striking example of this Platonic symbolism in Lewis's own writings, I think, comes at the end of the Last Battle, when the whole world of Narnia dies and is swallowed up into its Heavenly Platonic archetype:

"Listen, Peter. When Aslan said you could never go back to Narnia, he meant the Narnia you were thinking of. But that was not the real Narnia. That had a beginning and an end. It was only a shadow or a copy of the real Narnia which has always been here and always will be here: just as our world, England and all, is only a shadow or copy of something in Aslan's real world. …. And of course it is different; as different as a real thing is from a shadow or as waking life is from a dream." His voice stirred everyone like a trumpet as he spoke these words: but when he added under his breath "It's all in Plato, all in Plato: bless me, what do they teach them at these schools!" the older ones laughed. It was so exactly like the sort of thing they had heard him say long ago in that other world where his beard was grey instead of golden. …

 

It was the Unicorn who summed up what everyone was feeling….

"I have come home at last! This is my real country! I belong here. This is the land I have been looking for all my life, though I never knew it till now. The reason why we loved the old Narnia is that it sometimes looked a little like this."

Notice how the Platonic Ideas in Lewis's concrete literary example moved you more than my abstract philosophical explanations of Plato's Ideas. This is the strategy of the storyteller: to creep past the "watchful dragons" that guard the conscious reason that excludes these things as unbelievable; to open that back door of the heart when the front door of the mind is locked; to appeal to the wiser, deeper, unconscious mind…..A great mythmaker awakens the longing for the Platonic archetypes, which are buried deep in the human knowledge, through using a magic language: the language of myth. (from The Philosopy of Tolkien, pgs. 48-49)

 

The highlighted portion really spoke to me; it clarified what is calling me toward this path.

 

Hope Kreeft helps someone. (he almost always helps me. ;) )

 

Me! Peter Kreeft has helped me understand almost everything better. I also heartily second your recommendation to go back to authors/works that resonated with you in the past while wading through this hurricane of a thread. I think many of the ideas we are discussing here are old ideas for most of us, ideas we began to forget in our fear and anxiety. Re-encountering these ideas in the place we first fell in love with them is the best way to find peace in our minds and hearts.

 

I must say, that the passage you quoted from The Last Battle is my favorite from the whole series. That whole chapter really. And literature truly works the way Tolkien describes. My father read the Chronicles of Narnia aloud to me when I was seven, having the kind of discussions with me as we read together that we are discussing in this thread. I grew to love the books and re-read them again and again over the years until the truths found in their "mythology" were deeply integrated into my mind and my heart. When I sat in my first philosophy class in high school, Plato was like an old friend. I had already had this conversation in another time and place.

 

This happened again and again in my life. The good literature my parents introduced to me, the discussions we had around the dinner table, the example they set in truly striving to lead an integrated life where they sought the truth and lived it.... it worked. My parents opened my eyes and heart to the truth through their example and the books and people (saints, authors, characters) they introduced to me. They made mistakes, of course, but the core I needed to start growing into the person I was created to be was given to me. I feel deeply blessed with my education and feel they prepared to tackle the most frightening, exciting task I've ever face - giving the same to my children.

 

I'm rambling a bit, but I wanted to share from the perspective of someone who recieved the kind of education and formation being described in this thread. It is possible, and it is worth all the blood, sweat, and tears that I know my parents put into it.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Please just post more questions and ideas here. Good conversation is always welcome.

[justamouse]

Would you mind linking the Pudwea talk on memorization and repetition that you mention?

 

I vote that all references to great audio lectures and books that will inspire me should be linked in the post in which they are mentioned. This way, I won't miss anything and I can spend more time listening and reading and less time searching. (I know, that's incredibly selfish of me because really none of us has "extra" time, right? But please, if you are so inclined, please do include a link!)

 

Andrew Pudewa – Reflections on Redeeming Repetition: Rut, Routine, and Ritual

 

It's the third one.

Some of my notes-

 

"Ritual requires obedience, yet requires free will to be obedient." "Practice makes permanent." (Imperfect practice makes the imperfect permanent) "Repetition amplifies" He talks about the Suzuki method, break it into pieces, and practice until you get sick of it, THEN you breakthrough and learn. (that held a lot of truth for me because I remembered the repetition from learning flute) 10,000 times, THEN begins understanding. You break through to the NATURE of what it is.

 

Then he went into this bit of training memory actually effects genetics, and that latter generations of lab mice were smarter because of what their parents were trained to do.

 

When we loose appreciation for ritual, it's a loss of understanding.

 

Here you are.

 

Oh drool. There goes any hopes of sleep for tonight.

 

ETA, listened to it, and yikes, I took a page of notes and am going to have to listen to it again before I get anything concrete out of it. But I agree, that it's a MUST for followup.

 

 

I wanted to post this in case any of these ideas might help someone else.

Notice how the Platonic Ideas in Lewis's concrete literary example moved you more than my abstract philosophical explanations of Plato's Ideas. This is the strategy of the storyteller: to creep past the "watchful dragons" that guard the conscious reason that excludes these things as unbelievable; to open that back door of the heart when the front door of the mind is locked; to appeal to the wiser, deeper, unconscious mind…..A great mythmaker awakens the longing for the Platonic archetypes, which are buried deep in the human knowledge, through using a magic language: the language of myth. (from The Philosopy of Tolkien, pgs. 48-49)

 

The highlighted portion really spoke to me; it clarified what is calling me toward this path.

 

Hope Kreeft helps someone. (he almost always helps me. ;) )

 

I highlighted that one, too! I know, it totally socked me right in the gut, that page. There's more, just you wait. That book is so amazing, it's one you need to finish the last page, then go right back to the beginning and start over.

 

Me! Peter Kreeft has helped me understand almost everything better. I also heartily second your recommendation to go back to authors/works that resonated with you in the past while wading through this hurricane of a thread. I think many of the ideas we are discussing here are old ideas for most of us, ideas we began to forget in our fear and anxiety. Re-encountering these ideas in the place we first fell in love with them is the best way to find peace in our minds and hearts.

 

I must say, that the passage you quoted from The Last Battle is my favorite from the whole series. That whole chapter really. And literature truly works the way Tolkien describes. My father read the Chronicles of Narnia aloud to me when I was seven, having the kind of discussions with me as we read together that we are discussing in this thread. I grew to love the books and re-read them again and again over the years until the truths found in their "mythology" were deeply integrated into my mind and my heart. When I sat in my first philosophy class in high school, Plato was like an old friend. I had already had this conversation in another time and place.

 

This happened again and again in my life. The good literature my parents introduced to me, the discussions we had around the dinner table, the example they set in truly striving to lead an integrated life where they sought the truth and lived it.... it worked. My parents opened my eyes and heart to the truth through their example and the books and people (saints, authors, characters) they introduced to me. They made mistakes, of course, but the core I needed to start growing into the person I was created to be was given to me. I feel deeply blessed with my education and feel they prepared to tackle the most frightening, exciting task I've ever face - giving the same to my children.

 

I'm rambling a bit, but I wanted to share from the perspective of someone who recieved the kind of education and formation being described in this thread. It is possible, and it is worth all the blood, sweat, and tears that I know my parents put into it.

 

This almost made me cry. This is SO what I hope to hear my kids say one day. It wasn't rambling, it was wonderful, thank you.

Edited March 26, 2012 by justamouse

[Halcyon]

I have just listened to Andrew's lecture on Mimetics and the cultivation of virtue for the second time. Some thoughts...

 

A) "you become what you behold"

B) education is cultivating attention, memory and contemplation. And then creativity.

C) present examples, allow comparisons to be made by students, when they're wrong, present more examples of the truth.

D) in math, this means exposing the truth of math, encounter it again and again so the student can absorb what they're seeing on a deeper level, conceptually. Saxon is bad! :tongue_smilie:

 

The lecture was enjoyable, and listening to it a second time really clarified things for me, stripped away all the extraneous stuff about homeschooling, the worry and the fear, and brought me back to the core.

[Bang!Zoom!]

He mentions Clayton Hamilton in that one up there. One of Hamilton's works is public domain if you are interested.

 

http://archive.org/details/materialsandmet01hamigoog

[danybug]

My soul is swelling so I have to post this:

 

I believe our country is in great moral peril right now and that the moral peril is playing itself in and through our schools: public, private, and parochial.

 

But I have come to believe that what you are doing as home school parents is the best thing that has ever happened to education in our country. EVER.

 

Think of this simple fact: if our people are brought to a state of intellectual, artistic, cultural, and even spiritual flourishing it will because of one thing:

 

The unspeakable love of hundreds of thousands of individual mothers for their own particular children (natal and adopted), and their refusal to conform to the ways of the world dying outside their doors.

 

I cannot express strongly enough how grateful I am to you as a father, a grandfather, an American, a Christian, and a classical educator.

 

May God bless and enrich every single one of you - and your children through you.

 

THANK YOU!!

 

:hurray: So well said! :hurray:

[TheAutumnOak]

My soul is swelling so I have to post this:

 

I believe our country is in great moral peril right now and that the moral peril is playing itself in and through our schools: public, private, and parochial.

 

But I have come to believe that what you are doing as home school parents is the best thing that has ever happened to education in our country. EVER.

 

Think of this simple fact: if our people are brought to a state of intellectual, artistic, cultural, and even spiritual flourishing it will because of one thing:

 

The unspeakable love of hundreds of thousands of individual mothers for their own particular children (natal and adopted), and their refusal to conform to the ways of the world dying outside their doors.

 

I cannot express strongly enough how grateful I am to you as a father, a grandfather, an American, a Christian, and a classical educator.

 

May God bless and enrich every single one of you - and your children through you.

 

THANK YOU!!

 

Thank you so much for your words, they have brought me great encouragement :001_smile:

[Colleen in NS]

Please just post more questions and ideas here. Good conversation is always welcome.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: And not just welcome, but needed.

[justamouse]

Thank you so much for your words, they have brought me great encouragement :001_smile:

 

 

I know, right? You're right.

 

Much of the time I feel like we're all hot and sweaty, our floppy leather aprons are sticking to us, we have chips of stone stuck in our neck and we're looking at each other all congratulatory like, and someone comes strolling along and says, "Oh look, a wheel."

 

And yet I plod on. :D I know we're saving civilization, here.

 

So after Lady Dusk kept hammering home the idea of listening to Contemplation of Nature Part 2, I listened to that, but then plunked in my cart Martin Cothran's Nature: The Principal of Principals. Oh, is that a bit of goop on my screen? No, that's my brain. I really think it should be listened to first, so you can see the progression on the thoughts of nature over time (and where you may find you fall) and where we are today on what modern thought believes nature to be (and how wrong that belief is). It kind of shines a brighter light on what Mr. Kern talks about in his sessions (The Contemplation of Nature 1 & 2). It's 3 dollars, on the CiRCE download page. Scroll down quite a bit.

 

Caveat emptor, it is HARD listening to. Much of it when flying over my head. But it's very much worth it.

Edited March 26, 2012 by justamouse

[Bang!Zoom!]

Oh sure, I cost you time, you cost me money.

 

Nice going there mousey pants. :lol:

[justamouse]

Oh sure, I cost you time, you cost me money.

 

Nice going there mousey pants. :lol:

 

ha! Good luck, if I had any understanding of it at all, it was the Sam Adams. :D

 

Report back and give us your notes. Lecture/starbucks ? lecture/starbucks?

 

Lecture.

[Bang!Zoom!]

You are not going to believe this, I don't have a paypal account, and it's forbidden to use $ transfer on cc in our house via that system (paypal).

 

I'm going to have to open an account just for this, go stuff it with just enough to load one talk a week or something I guess. It's been years since I've used one of those accounts.

 

Man that is a big bummer.

 

If these were loaded via Amazon, no problem, I'm in like Flynn, but paypal? Whew, this is going to be some work on my end.

 

Is there anyway to get these without using that paypal checkout?

[Colleen in NS]

My soul is swelling so I have to post this:

 

I believe our country is in great moral peril right now and that the moral peril is playing itself in and through our schools: public, private, and parochial.

 

But I have come to believe that what you are doing as home school parents is the best thing that has ever happened to education in our country. EVER.

 

Think of this simple fact: if our people are brought to a state of intellectual, artistic, cultural, and even spiritual flourishing it will because of one thing:

 

The unspeakable love of hundreds of thousands of individual mothers for their own particular children (natal and adopted), and their refusal to conform to the ways of the world dying outside their doors.

 

I cannot express strongly enough how grateful I am to you as a father, a grandfather, an American, a Christian, and a classical educator.

 

May God bless and enrich every single one of you - and your children through you.

 

THANK YOU!!

 

I realize this is meant to be encouragement. Do you realize, though, that many of us WTM-forum-user Moms, who are reading and participating in discussions such as this one, are not educating within the borders of the United States?

[TX Pilgrim]

I am so blessed to have read this thread from the beginning AND to be at the start of my homeschool journey. I truly appreciate the experience and wisdom you all have shared. As I have read through I have seen a few different strands that might be turned into forum topics. The best analogy I can currently come up with is building a house. Obviously this has its limitations but it is a start.

 

Foundation/ Framework – this thread would focus on what it means to focus on virtue, seek truth, beauty and goodness. It would also talk about the trivium and how it is used in this context. You might also want a “blueprint†area – where you talk about questions you can ask to help develop and implement this for your family and life situation.

For stickies we might include some of the posts that Andrew Kern has written (or similar type information).

 

“Skill building†- Educating ourselves – This thread would help mom’s to learn more by reading wider. This is where you could talk about the quote that really struck you or ask what you might want to read/ listen to if you are interested in a specific area, etc.

Stickies – the book list that is already on circe, maybe some thoughts on how to gain the most from reading/ listening to something.

 

“Tool chest†– Resource reviews and tweaks – This is where people can review and discuss how they use different resources to reach their own goals. Understanding that every situation is unique but sharing thoughts about what has worked for you.

Stickies – might be a list of curriculum that most people have found helpful (Mater Amablis (sic), Memoria Press, etc.

 

“Tool chest†– Good and Great Books – From the amount of discussion about this on the thread I think this might deserve its own area. Here people could talk about what they are reading and to what age group, resources they use to better understand things (like Shakespeare), questions that they have found useful, etc.

Stickies – using Shakespeare (resources and thoughts), links to different lists of books that people might want to consider, thoughts about questions/ prompts to use in discussing lit., etc.

 

Successes – this would be a thread to encourage each other by sharing those “breatkthrough/ aha†moments. Sometimes we need to read how others have succeeded to help us trust the process and carry on!

 

I think it would also be great if Circe hosted a “lecture of the month†type thread. Here you would choose one lecture that people have gained a lot from and just allow a thread discussion about it for that month. It could then go into the archives and people could add as they desire and new people could review the thread when they listen to that lecture. Maybe you pick the 12 “greatest hits†and do them each year (or 12 topics but use different lectures each year).

 

Anyway, I think this type of education is about being transformed in heart and mind which takes time. I hope that if a forum is developed it would help all of us in that journey – both our heads and our hearts – so that we can model and encourage it in our children.

 

I did this fast - I have a newborn and a sick toddler - so please excuse all grammar issues!

[justamouse]

You are not going to believe this, I don't have a paypal account, and it's forbidden to use $ transfer on cc in our house via that system (paypal).

 

I'm going to have to open an account just for this, go stuff it with just enough to load one talk a week or something I guess. It's been years since I've used one of those accounts.

 

Man that is a big bummer.

 

If these were loaded via Amazon, no problem, I'm in like Flynn, but paypal? Whew, this is going to be some work on my end.

 

Is there anyway to get these without using that paypal checkout?

 

 

Go to waluniverse and get a prepaid card for three bucks (right at the cashier). :D You load it, you can't bounce anything, God forbid it be stolen, they can't take everything. Yes, you have to pay 3 bucks every time you load it, but that's not bad considering the other fees that would crop up.

[CourtneySue]

Would you mind linking the Pudwea talk on memorization and repetition that you mention?

 

I vote that all references to great audio lectures and books that will inspire me should be linked in the post in which they are mentioned. This way, I won't miss anything and I can spend more time listening and reading and less time searching. (I know, that's incredibly selfish of me because really none of us has "extra" time, right? But please, if you are so inclined, please do include a link!)

 

Andrew Pudewa is awesome, too. I actually just attended The Two Andrews seminar in San Diego about a month ago. Pudewa has some good talks on his IEW website, too: http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/catalog/downloads (there's a section for complimentary downloads too).

 

My faves are "The Four Language Arts" and "Freedomship" among others.

Edited March 26, 2012 by LutheranGirl

[CourtneySue]

I know, right? You're right.

 

 

And yet I plod on. :D I know we're saving civilization, here.

 

So after Lady Dusk kept hammering home the idea of listening to Contemplation of Nature Part 2, I listened to that, but then plunked in my cart Martin Cothran's Nature: The Principal of Principals. Oh, is that a bit of goop on my screen? No, that's my brain. I really think it should be listened to first, so you can see the progression on the thoughts of nature over time (and where you may find you fall) and where we are today on what modern thought believes nature to be (and how wrong that belief is). It kind of shines a brighter light on what Mr. Kern talks about in his sessions (The Contemplation of Nature 1 & 2). It's 3 dollars, on the CiRCE download page. Scroll down quite a bit.

 

Caveat emptor, it is HARD listening to. Much of it when flying over my head. But it's very much worth it.

 

Oh Cool! I love Contemplation of Nature part 1. I'm going to have to check these out.

 

I have to say how much fun this discussion has been. I hope I get to meet you all some day IRL!! Maybe at a Circe Conference?

 

 

About the Circe Forum:

I don't have any ideas for the categories, but I do think they should be clear and broad. I remember they had a forum on their old website and there were simply too many. I wasn't sure which ones to click on.

[ElizaG]

I realize this is meant to be encouragement. Do you realize, though, that many of us WTM-forum-user Moms, who are reading and participating in discussions such as this one, are not educating within the borders of the United States?

I understood the "our country" more from the point of view of Circe, which is an American organization that was set up in response to circumstances here. Of course, much of they're talking about is universal by definition, and they have members from other countries. Dr. John Patrick, a physician who is with Augustine College in Ottawa, is a speaker who's not to be missed. But in his talks, he shares his ideas and experiences as they apply to the United States, because that's the context in which the group is working.

 

Besides, it would be rather presumptuous of their representatives to talk about saving other countries. Americans have a reputation for, shall we say, being enthusiastic about that sort of thing. I'm glad of the focus on getting one's own house in order. :)

[Bang!Zoom!]

Thanks for the waluniverse tip. Darling is going to go out of his mind when I explain this to him.

 

Wait...

Maybe I won't explain, I'll just give a directive and set of instructions. He likes instructions, he likes to clear cut to solutions, that's just his manner. To solve, to record the measurable.

 

He gets a big sense of accomplishment out of things like that.

 

I finished the "con" audio last night. (contemplation of nature)

 

That bit about the SAT testing really struck a cord with me. Very good stuff.

[OrdinaryTime]

This brings me to another application I want to offer you. How do you ensure that your students are engaged, that your curriculum is integrated, and that you are all actually learning and not just having either fun or misery?

 

There's a natural course a child goes through to learn something (and for adults too). It applies to every lesson that is oriented to knowing a truth, from the simplest to the most complex. And it begins with you preparing them to receive it.

 

A lesson will natural walk through five stages on the way to the truth. Those stages have been described by Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, and even early proto-progressives like Herbert Spencer. If you teach successfully you will have gone through these stages, whether you knew it or not.

 

Stage 1: Preparation of the student's mind. During this stage you raise to your child's mind as much as you judge beneficial of what they already know about the truth to be learned. For example, if you are about to teach them how to add two digit numbers together, let them enjoy how much they already know about one digit numbers, + signs, = signs, etc.

 

If you are about to read a fable (Grasshopper and ants, say) ask them what they know about grasshoppers, ants, fiddles, etc. and ask them if they've ever had to work hard or if they've ever wanted to listen to music while they worked, etc.

 

Stage 2: Present types (illustrations, examples, analogies, etc.) of the truth. These are specific embodiments of a truth to be learned. In math, you would present a few two column addition problems to them and work through them while they watch, gradually handing them over to the students.

 

In the fable, you would read the story (which is a type of a truth).

 

Stage 3: Compare types.

 

In math, you'd ask your children: what did I do this time and this time and this time? What did I do differently this time compared to this time. etc.

 

In a fable, you'd compare the grasshopper to the ants (how are they alike, how different? what did the g do? what did the ants do? what did each get? who would have been happier/wiser/etc. at the end?). Then you can compare stories. For example, you could compare this fable with one you've already read, or you could ask, does this remind you of any other stories or events from anything you've ever read or experienced?

 

Stage 4: Student expresses the truth in her own words

 

In math, ask: when I make you do 1000 of these tonight, how will you do it?

 

In a fable ask: what is the point of this story? (I never tell students the moral).

 

Stage 5: Student embodies the lesson learned in an artifact or action

 

In math, give them 1000 problems to practice the lesson learned

 

In the fable, tell them to apply the moral somehow in their own actions. Note: Do not ask them to write a fable after this lesson for the simple reason that you did not just teach them how to write a fable. That would be a good lesson, but it isn't the one I just described.

 

This applies across the curriculum and is surprisingly easy to do once you get the hang of it. The benefits are endless, not least that you'll see how things fit together across subjects and kids love that. Plus you remember more because you are constantly reviewing everything you've ever taught.

 

 

(Disclaimer: Catholic content)

 

I thank you for this lovely breakdown of designing a lesson for a child. I've been thinking about it the last few days, while I was simultaneously preparing a talk on prayer that I had to give at my parish. I was speaking about lectio divinia in my talk, an extremely ancient method of meditative prayer, and realized how well it fit into this teaching method of seeking, grasping, and then integrating truth. In lectio divinia, one begins by reading, then meditating, praying, and finally contemplating. You can compare this to the act of eating. First, you take a bite: read a bit of Scripture, or in the case of schooling, read the story or introduce the mathmatical problem/concept. Next, you chew on this bite. You meditate on the passage, using your intellect, as well as your imagination and emotions, to view the material from every possible angle. I think this is where the idea of poetic knowledge is vital. When meditating or "chewing" on something, mere intellectual work is not enough, though important. You need poetic knowledge of the subject at hand to really "get around" the subject, encompassing the whole of its reality. After chewing, or meditating, on the passage or problem, then one "savours" the bite, or prays with it. This is letting it dwell in you for a time, letting your mind and heart sit with the ideas. I find re-reading over a span of time so helpful in this step. Or in math, when one has chewed on a concept, a student can really savour doing several problems and enjoying success in the act of solving. Finally, one digests the bite, integrating into one's being. This is the contemplation stage. This is when the student makes the material his own. It becomes part of his own thinking and understanding, and he can articulate it to others.

 

I enjoyed this connection and because I'm familiar with lectio divinia in my own development, I feel like I can re-create that process for my children in many ways. Also, given the long, successful tradition of this type of process in helping millions reach truths about the Ultimate Reality, it builds my confidence in journeying down this path.

Edited March 26, 2012 by OrdinaryTime

[Joyofsixreboot]

I took someone's advice and listened to Dr. Taylor's Good to Great talk in the bath. It's the one place interruption is at a minimum. It's a wonderful presentation if you haven't listened.

Edited March 26, 2012 by joyofsix

[usetoschool]

I have love reading this thread. It has been a very nice kick in the pants. Thank you to everyone who has shared their ideas.

 

I was reading the Circe email newsletter today and towards the bottom is a link to this little blurb about the tension between college entrance and classical education. Really, it is all that keeps me swinging back and forth and I really need to just let go and trust that the education I am providing really will create the wisdom and understanding and thinking skills and knowledge that I know in my heart it can. Not to mention the fully rounded, educated person that I am often on my soap box about. :)

 

Anyway, here

 

It really is quite short, for those of you overwhelmed by all the talks and reading lately.

[Halcyon]

He mentions Clayton Hamilton in that one up there. One of Hamilton's works is public domain if you are interested.

 

http://archive.org/details/materialsandmet01hamigoog

 

Thank you I was going to look for that!

[Bang!Zoom!]

Hey Halcyon, there's some thing really interesting I've learned while bouncing around with these audio lectures, sharing...

 

When they mention a title/author/book etc., stop and hit a Google "book" or a Google "scholar" search and/or an Amazon search.

 

Many times these guys are working with material which is now copyright free and they've been published in one way or another, or even more groovy, published on Amazon as a free download for the kindle.

 

I've gotten a ton of 12th century works on my Kindle now from exploring around.

 

Now for a general "everybody" question.

 

Was anyone out there really affected by the phrase and following illustrations in the Anaylitical Learning talk..the portion about sophists, economists and calculators and the suggestion of "you should be careful who you give them too, it means at least that.."

 

I have been reflecting on that idea ever since I heard it, but it's my lifeboat right now as I schedule all this testing business with the kid. It's stressing me out..and that particular portion of that conference recording has carried my spirit all day.

 

I'd really like to dig the roots of that concept out if anyone is game. :)

[CourtneySue]

I don't even remember that part, but I'll listen to it again and see if I can find it.

 

 

I remember something Andrew Pudewa says, in several of his talks, is that if you're in a state where you have to have your kids tested to go ahead and do it and when the results come in to put the envelope in a file folder and open it in 20 years and laugh! The point is that you as a homeschooling mom know how your child is doing, you know where she is struggling in math or grammar or whatever the subject is. A classroom teacher is not that in-tune with her students, and for her, these tests serve more of a purpose.

 

I don't even know if this addresses your question at all, but it's something that has stuck with me.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Ah, I just remembered the request of a previous poster to include links when talking about a particular recording.

 

The one I'm talking bout is here at The Society for Classical Learning site, the 2011 series, Analytical learning.

 

http://www.societyforclassicallearning.org/index.php/resources/media/15-2011-conference-recordings

[abreakfromlife]

I sat down 6 and a half hours ago to start reading this thread, and except for dinner have been here ever since. It has been the most fun 6.5 hours I've had on a school day. :D I've downloaded 13 lectures, added 17 books to my amazon wish list, bookmarked a zillion pages, and have 11 tabs still open. I have so thoroughly loved this and have learned so much and have been sooo inspired. Thank you everyone for all of the discussion!!

[Bang!Zoom!]

I sat down 6 and a half hours ago to start reading this thread, and except for dinner have been here ever since. It has been the most fun 6.5 hours I've had on a school day. :D I've downloaded 13 lectures, added 17 books to my amazon wish list, bookmarked a zillion pages, and have 11 tabs still open. I have so thoroughly loved this and have learned so much and have been sooo inspired. Thank you everyone for all of the discussion!!

 

Isn't it fun? :D

[justamouse]

He mentions Clayton Hamilton in that one up there. One of Hamilton's works is public domain if you are interested.

 

http://archive.org/details/materialsandmet01hamigoog

 

Thank you I was going to look for that!

 

It's also free on Kindle. (cause after this thread I need One More Thing to read.)

 

A Manual of the Art of Fiction.

 

 

Was anyone out there really affected by the phrase and following illustrations in the Anaylitical Learning talk..the portion about sophists, economists and calculators and the suggestion of "you should be careful who you give them too, it means at least that.."

 

I have been reflecting on that idea ever since I heard it, but it's my lifeboat right now as I schedule all this testing business with the kid. It's stressing me out..and that particular portion of that conference recording has carried my spirit all day.

 

I'd really like to dig the roots of that concept out if anyone is game. :)

 

I'll have to take another listen.

[Knittinfarmgirl]

Isn't it fun? :D

 

:iagree: I think I'm addicted. I keep coming back. Don't have much to input... I've downloaded so many mp3s and I think I have enough reading to keep me busy for the next millenia. :D Love this thread!

[Mommyfaithe]

:iagree: I think I'm addicted. I keep coming back. Don't have much to input... I've downloaded so many mp3s and I think I have enough reading to keep me busy for the next millenia. :D Love this thread!

 

Me too.....I wish I wasn't so tired...I keep dozing off...and no, I am not bored....just exhausted.

[justamouse]

Me too.....I wish I wasn't so tired...I keep dozing off...and no, I am not bored....just exhausted.

 

That's cause you're an old coot. :D

 

Kids are in bed, I'm listening to another lecture and trying to smoosh this all together in my brain and make some sort of sense out of it all.

 

I thought I was doing really well, and then I hit this spot where I'm wondering what I'm going to do.

[ElizaG]

Mouse, I think that might be where you just REST, as Mr. Kern has said. :)

 

(and on that note, back to my personal board break)

[justamouse]

Mouse, I think that might be where you just REST, as Mr. Kern has said. :)

 

(and on that note, back to my personal board break)

 

 

Yes, I know. I am going to take a break, too.

[FO4UR]

I thought I was doing really well, and then I hit this spot where I'm wondering what I'm going to do.

 

This is the story of my life.

[SorrelZG]

Mouse, I think that might be where you just REST, as Mr. Kern has said. :)

 

(and on that note, back to my personal board break)

 

:lol: I just popped in briefly from my personal board break, also.

 

 

Rest (as opposed to anxiety or fuss), reading (well - in various senses) and relating (in the social sense, strengthening bonds with the children but also in the narrating/storytelling sense) - that's where my attentions are regarding my days with my young children right now.

[Halcyon]

:lol: I just popped in briefly from my personal board break, also.

 

 

Rest (as opposed to anxiety or fuss), reading (well - in various senses) and relating (in the social sense, strengthening bonds with the children but also in the narrating/storytelling sense) - that's where my attentions are regarding my days with my young children right now.

 

That is where we are too, right now. We need some restful days, and I don't mean have a vacation. I just mean we need some restful SCHOOL days.

[birchbark]

Rest (as opposed to anxiety or fuss), reading (well - in various senses) and relating (in the social sense, strengthening bonds with the children but also in the narrating/storytelling sense) - that's where my attentions are regarding my days with my young children right now.

 

This is good. I think I might print it out and put it on the wall in our schoolroom. My 3R's.

[simka2]

That is where we are too, right now. We need some restful days, and I don't mean have a vacation. I just mean we need some restful SCHOOL days.

 

Today was the first day I attempted to implement some of the very basic things I have learned from this thread. It was amazing! We accomplished so much, but it was restful and holistic. I am still in a bit of shock that it worked.

 

We still spent over an hour on Maths and another hour on science. We did grammar, writing, two (lit and history) read alouds with discussion. I cheated a bit and connected their spelling work to their writing. (ds6 and I also managed to get in all of his phonics, reading, and handwriting) Then they all decided to work on some elective type materials. Dd chose to read up on Greek Gods and Goddesses (she's on a mythology kick), the twins built a 3D model of a cathedral and my little guy went and ran around with the chickens. We also took a lengthy break to run outside and see if we could see Venus during the daytime.

 

I didn't get to our foreign languages or geography, but I am just starting to get back into a grove.

 

I am sure that we will have less idyllic days to come, but today was so NICE!!!! ;)

 

(It was the twins birthday, so dh brought home dinner. I am sure that helped!) ;)

[Mommyfaithe]

That's cause you're an old coot. :D

 

Kids are in bed, I'm listening to another lecture and trying to smoosh this all together in my brain and make some sort of sense out of it all.

 

I thought I was doing really well, and then I hit this spot where I'm wondering what I'm going to do.

 

:D. True, true!!

 

My goal: read & listen, absorb, wrestle, write down, repeat.....I love this time of the year ( a little early this year), where I start to question it ALL, clean house physically and spiritually, revamp, rework, and revive.....get back down to the roots that feed me and help me to grow, then try to tie it up into some kind of package for my kids for next year....and then some:D

 

It is a fine time of year for a good wrestle.

[Mommyfaithe]

Today was the first day I attempted to implement some of the very basic things I have learned from this thread. It was amazing! We accomplished so much, but it was restful and holistic. I am still in a bit of shock that it worked.

 

We still spent over an hour on Maths and another hour on science. We did grammar, writing, two (lit and history) read alouds with discussion. I cheated a bit and connected their spelling work to their writing. (ds6 and I also managed to get in all of his phonics, reading, and handwriting) Then they all decided to work on some elective type materials. Dd chose to read up on Greek Gods and Goddesses (she's on a mythology kick), the twins built a 3D model of a cathedral and my little guy went and ran around with the chickens. We also took a lengthy break to run outside and see if we could see Venus during the daytime.

 

I didn't get to our foreign languages or geography, but I am just starting to get back into a grove.

 

I am sure that we will have less idyllic days to come, but today was so NICE!!!! ;)

 

(It was the twins birthday, so dh brought home dinner. I am sure that helped!) ;)

 

Glad you had a great day and hope you have many more:D

 

They are never all smooth, but it sure is nice to have one every now and then......

[8filltheheart]

I have been digging around different sites looking at various booklists. I found this one and it has a broad range titles including Eastern and World Canons, short lists, and contemporary canon.

 

http://www.interleaves.org/~rteeter/greatbks.html

[justamouse]

:D. True, true!!

 

My goal: read & listen, absorb, wrestle, write down, repeat.....I love this time of the year ( a little early this year), where I start to question it ALL, clean house physically and spiritually, revamp, rework, and revive.....get back down to the roots that feed me and help me to grow, then try to tie it up into some kind of package for my kids for next year....and then some:D

 

It is a fine time of year for a good wrestle.

 

It IS a good wrestle-a good Spring Cleaning.

 

Today was the first day I attempted to implement some of the very basic things I have learned from this thread. It was amazing! We accomplished so much, but it was restful and holistic. I am still in a bit of shock that it worked.

 

We still spent over an hour on Maths and another hour on science. We did grammar, writing, two (lit and history) read alouds with discussion. I cheated a bit and connected their spelling work to their writing. (ds6 and I also managed to get in all of his phonics, reading, and handwriting) Then they all decided to work on some elective type materials. Dd chose to read up on Greek Gods and Goddesses (she's on a mythology kick), the twins built a 3D model of a cathedral and my little guy went and ran around with the chickens. We also took a lengthy break to run outside and see if we could see Venus during the daytime.

 

I didn't get to our foreign languages or geography, but I am just starting to get back into a grove.

 

I am sure that we will have less idyllic days to come, but today was so NICE!!!! ;)

 

(It was the twins birthday, so dh brought home dinner. I am sure that helped!) ;)

 

:grouphug: Such encouragement.

 

I have been digging around different sites looking at various booklists. I found this one and it has a broad range titles including Eastern and World Canons, short lists, and contemporary canon.

 

http://www.interleaves.org/~rteeter/greatbks.html

 

Thank you!

 

I think after listening to many of these lectures-all on the CiRCE free site and making my way through Society for Classical Learning Chris Perrin, Learning To Love What Must Be Done is the best place to start. He speaks of the frustration of us doing this as a first generation and how to begin.

 

"It's not been bred into my soul, so I can't incarnate it the way I would as if I had been nursed on it."

 

I felt SUCH relief at hearing that, that this man ALSO feels like that, and he's so far ahead of me. It's comforting to know.

 

The next one I think could be Ken Meyers "It's the Culture Stupid".

 

They're kinda like the first rungs on the ladder.

Edited March 27, 2012 by justamouse

[simka2]

Glad you had a great day and hope you have many more:D

 

They are never all smooth, but it sure is nice to have one every now and then......

 

 

It was great and I find myself energized for today. What was so interesting to me was the amount of conversation we had. Granted, my crew is still youngish (5th, 4th, 4th and 1st), but in asking more "should...." questions I was surprised by how opinionated they were :D.

 

In math we ran into another situation where they were taught a shortcut by a ps teacher. I explained that while they could use the shortcut, it would not be good in the long run and here was why. It was math with character study ;)

 

None of this was distinctly "classical," but it was implementing some principles that had spoken to me at the beginning of this thread. Mainly, reading good literature together (not necessarily historical fiction) and bringing the pursuit of virtue, beauty, and wisdom back into our homeschool.

[MyLittleWonders]

This thread plus the spin-offs have been wonderful. I was feeling very burned out with homeschooling and needed this to remind me why I do what I am doing.

[Bang!Zoom!]

This thread plus the spin-offs have been wonderful. I was feeling very burned out with homeschooling and needed this to remind me why I do what I am doing.

 

In one of the conference talks, Andrew directly address persons in the group and asks that very question.

 

"Why are you here? Is there nothing better you could have done with your time? What is it you hope to achieve by attending" (Oh how I love that word now: "attending")

 

In another, he asks, "Why are you doing this?"

 

If I ask myself those questions during a day (and honestly, it's habitual now since I've learned them) - it's really quite healthy. It gives me food for a second wind sometimes.

 

It really charges me up to ask myself as the guide:

 

"Why am I doing this?"

 

It washes away all the static that builds up in the day, it's like a cool dip in the pool on a really hot day. I just love it.