Help me evaluate this paragraph

[curlylocks]

The assignment: Write a paragraph about an outdoor experience. Develop a topic sentence and make sure your supporting details support your topic sentence.

 

The paragraph in question:

 

There are many things to do at the beach. Like swimming, when you swim you can look for sea life like fish, star fish and crabs. There's sea glass hunting, this is when you look for sea glass on the beach. You can have picnics with your family. After you eat you can go kayaking in the sea. And there is building sand castles, and see how tall you can make one.

 

This is the rough draft, word-for-word with no corrections.

[Ellie]

Well, there's a topic sentence, and supporting sentences, but the mechanics need lots of correction.

[curlylocks]

Well, there's a topic sentence, and supporting sentences, but the mechanics need lots of correction.

 

Yep...I agree. I just don't even know where to start. (Writing comes easily for me, but not so for DS.) I feel like this: :banghead:

[curlylocks]

I'd ask him to outline the paragraph and then tackle each sentence on its own, working on mechanics in smaller chunks that way.

 

Can you tell me more? :bigear:

[Aelwydd]

The assignment: Write a paragraph about an outdoor experience. Develop a topic sentence and make sure your supporting details support your topic sentence.

 

The paragraph in question:

 

There are many things to do at the beach. Like swimming, when you swim you can look for sea life like fish, star fish and crabs. There's sea glass hunting, this is when you look for sea glass on the beach. You can have picnics with your family. After you eat you can go kayaking in the sea. And there is building sand castles, and see how tall you can make one.

 

This is the rough draft, word-for-word with no corrections.

 

Sentence-by-sentence:

 

1. Solid, grammatically correct, clear statement.

2. Not a sentence. This is a sentence fragment.

3. Do not use contractions in formal writing. Also, there needs to be a conjunctive like "such as," or there should be a semi-colon. Otherwise, it is a run-on sentence.

4. It's not a great idea to write in the second person, i.e., "you can." Better to use third person. "One may" for example.

5. Should be a comma after the word eat.

6. Do not start a sentence with "and" or "but." A better word would be, "finally," or "lastly," to indicate summation.

 

Since I'm not sure how old the child is writing the paragraph, the above errors may be quite normal and on-par with his or her age group. Hope this is helpful!

[curlylocks]

Sentence-by-sentence:

 

1. Solid, grammatically correct, clear statement.

2. Not a sentence. This is a sentence fragment.

3. Do not use contractions in formal writing. Also, there needs to be a conjunctive like "such as," or there should be a semi-colon. Otherwise, it is a run-on sentence.

4. It's not a great idea to write in the second person, i.e., "you can." Better to use third person. "One may" for example.

5. Should be a comma after the word eat.

6. Do not start a sentence with "and" or "but." A better word would be, "finally," or "lastly," to indicate summation.

 

Since I'm not sure how old the child is writing the paragraph, the above errors may be quite normal and on-par with his or her age group. Hope this is helpful!

 

Thank you!! This was very helpful...

 

What age would you guess? (IF you had to guess...)

[TXBeth]

Sentence-by-sentence:

 

1. Solid, grammatically correct, clear statement.

2. Not a sentence. This is a sentence fragment.

3. Do not use contractions in formal writing. Also, there needs to be a conjunctive like "such as," or there should be a semi-colon. Otherwise, it is a run-on sentence.

4. It's not a great idea to write in the second person, i.e., "you can." Better to use third person. "One may" for example.

5. Should be a comma after the word eat.

6. Do not start a sentence with "and" or "but." A better word would be, "finally," or "lastly," to indicate summation.

 

Since I'm not sure how old the child is writing the paragraph, the above errors may be quite normal and on-par with his or her age group. Hope this is helpful!

 

I agree and would also have a general discussion about parallelism.

If I were to guess, I would say this child is in 3rd or 4th grade.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Was this paragraph written by the 12yo listed in your sig? If he's been homeschooled with WTM methods I assume he's completed fifth grade grammar. If he has, I would use the following method:

 

There are only six sentences. Working with one sentence at a time, write each sentence on the board and evaluate it for obvious issues.

 

Read the sentence aloud. Then check for:

 

Capitalization

Punctuation, including comma usage (remind him what a comma splice is)

Is it a complete sentence? (He should have learned a definition in his grammar study.) Run-on sentence? Fragment?

Subject/verb agreement

 

Have him write an improved version of the sentence on the board under the original sentence.

 

Next, show him how to use his grammar skills to evaluate his own writing. Ask him to diagram his improved sentence first, and then his original sentence.

 

He may need lots of help from you. Stand side-by-side at the chalkboard or whiteboard and talk through it together.

 

A final tip: You might want to go through these exercises of evaluating, rewriting, and diagramming on your own first.

 

I hope this helps.

[Aelwydd]

Thank you!! This was very helpful...

 

What age would you guess? (IF you had to guess...)

 

I really don't want to, because there's a huge gamut of ability across an even wider age group these days. If you read the NY Times article recently posted by Halcyon (think that's how it's spelled), then the above paragraph in its current form, is still superior, in style and grammatical structure, to the writing of a distressingly large percentage of NY high school juniors and seniors. So, it could be any of your kids that wrote it, and it'd still be par for the course!

[curlylocks]

Was this paragraph written by the 12yo listed in your sig? If he's been homeschooled with WTM methods I assume he's completed fifth grade grammar. If he has, I would use the following method:

 

There are only six sentences. Working with one sentence at a time, write each sentence on the board and evaluate it for obvious issues.

 

Read the sentence aloud. Then check for:

 

Capitalization

Punctuation, including comma usage (remind him what a comma splice is)

Is it a complete sentence? (He should have learned a definition from his grammar study) Run-on sentence? Fragment?

Subject/verb agreement

 

Have him write an improved version of the sentence on the board under the original sentence.

 

Next, show him how to use his grammar skills to evaluate his own writing. Ask him to diagram his improved sentence first, and then his original sentence.

 

He may need lots of help from you. Stand side-by-side at the chalkboard or whiteboard and talk through it together.

 

A final tip: You might want to go through these exercises of evaluating, rewriting, and diagramming on your own first.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Yes...my 12yo. :blushing: He has been homeschooled from the beginning, but not using WTM techniques. (I'm just now researching WTM techniques.) We have used mainly workbooks/textbooks for grammar & writing. (most recently A Beka)

 

I *want* to help him -- I just don't know how. (which sounds silly because language arts was/is my strong suit)

 

If I was to purchase WTM grammar & writing, what level would I start with?

[curlylocks]

I really don't want to, because there's a huge gamut of ability across an even wider age group these days. If you read the NY Times article recently posted by Halcyon (think that's how it's spelled), then the above paragraph in its current form, is still superior, in style and grammatical structure, to the writing of a distressingly large percentage of NY high school juniors and seniors. So, it could be any of your kids that wrote it, and it'd still be par for the course!

 

I won't be offended -- I promise!! (I already disclosed that this is my 12 yo DS, but we were posting at the same time.)

[Aelwydd]

Yes...my 12yo. :blushing: He has been homeschooled from the beginning, but not using WTM techniques. (I'm just now researching WTM techniques.) We have used mainly workbooks/textbooks for grammar & writing. (most recently A Beka)

 

I *want* to help him -- I just don't know how. (which sounds silly because language arts was/is my strong suit)

 

If I was to purchase WTM grammar & writing, what level would I start with?

 

Oh, don't feel bad! Look, I'm not kidding when I say his writing is still better than a considerable number of high school students, and even college students. Tibbie gave some excellent advice to address poor grammatical structure. I would suggest that you really push him to read, read, read books. That is the best "teacher" for learning how to write. It's more important, IMO, than even practice writing.

 

I really love SWB's example of how we expect students to write way too early in their educational journey. Like asking someone who has had only a year of French, to explain the problem of evil in writing. You cannot write what you don't know. Reading is what instills the language, teaches its nuance and fluidity and syntax. You have the right idea, giving him an assignment like this that is small, and starting from the ground up, rather than just throwing huge assignments at him.

 

I don't think he's doomed at all. ;)

[curlylocks]

Oh, don't feel bad! Look, I'm not kidding when I say his writing is still better than a considerable number of high school students, and even college students. Tibbie gave some excellent advice to address poor grammatical structure. I would suggest that you really push him to read, read, read books. That is the best "teacher" for learning how to write. It's more important, IMO, than even practice writing.

 

I really love SWB's example of how we expect students to write way too early in their educational journey. Like asking someone who has had only a year of French, to explain the problem of evil in writing. You cannot write what you don't know. Reading is what instills the language, teaches its nuance and fluidity and syntax. You have the right idea, giving him an assignment like this that is small, and starting from the ground up, rather than just throwing huge assignments at him.

 

I don't think he's doomed at all. ;)

 

Thank you for the reassurance...I needed it today. :)

[Sevilla]

One thing he needs to learn is that writing should not resemble a rambling conversation. He wrote stream of consciousness without an awareness of more formal/precise language.

[elegantlion]

I would start with Writing with Skill level 1. We've been using it for my ds, who is a delayed writer. We just got the hard copies in the mail today, we've been using the samples. It's well worth the investment, imo.

 

I do think you could start there, I don't see a reason to go back to WWE, based upon what you wrote here.

 

I like WWS for several reasons:

 

- I'm a decent writer, but it's hard for me not to get frustrated when teaching something that comes fairly naturally for me. I have a harder time understanding his struggle.

 

- It's written to the student. Ds will pull out paper and write when SWB says so. He balks when I ask.

 

- There are a million and one details addressed in WWS that I forget. Simply looking through the TE a few minutes ago I was impressed at the thoroughness. So while I might focus on one error, WWS is going to incrementally building skills and addressing details.

 

- It's one less subject I need to fret, worry, and plan. We've tried many programs (I feel like Goldilocks!), but WWS has him applying consistent effort with added exasperation on my part.

Edited February 8, 2012 by elegantlion

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'm with Aelwydd. He's not doomed. (And neither are you.) :grouphug:

 

Time to back up a few steps, that's all. Would your sensibilities allow you to choose Rod and Staff grammar? Grade 5 would be perfect for a 12yo new to that type of grammar. You could work out each lesson the night before, and be ready to teach him the next day. (That's what I did the first time I went through it.) The teacher's manual will tell you everything, and even includes daily oral drill.

 

R&S grade 5 will address all the errors I noticed in his paragraph. If he's a sixth-grader, don't let the number on the book throw either of you. (Put a book cover on it if he's really sensitive to grade level.) There are only 10 levels of R&S, so using it a year 'behind' is not really behind at all.

 

You might want to also look at FLL and WWE or WWS. R&S was WTM-recommended in the past, and all I've used, but others are having more fun with SWB's new options, I think. ;)

[littleWMN]

At least there is something to work with. The mechanics aren't great, but you can work with that. Have him write it in list form and then help him form each numbered item into a workable, interesting paragraph. At least his ideas (creativity) are good!

 

I just read a paper by a 15 year old ps relative of mine. It was given to me by another relative as a means of bragging on the paper. The content was good but the mechanics were terrible. It looked like a first draft. It wasn't even organized by topical sentences for the paragraphs. I was encouraged about my 10 year old after reading it.

[LostSurprise]

I was going to guess he was 10-12. My 11 year old writes just like this.

 

At this age a lot of kids are really struggling to figure out what to write, what details to add.

 

This kind of material is perfect for a rough draft. Then you can teach him to take that rough draft and refine it. One of the first elements is taking sentences out of their context and analyzing them. Does this make sense? Is the punctuation correct? Is there more than one idea? Does it make a complete thought? Is there a subject and verb? Is it really long? Could it make two simpler sentences? Does it fit right after the sentence preceding it? Does it add information to the paragraph?

 

Just remember, people learn to speak first and write later. There's nothing wrong with students writing as they speak...especially at this age when more is starting to be expected of them. It is important to stress that this is a first draft though, a brainstorming ideas draft. After that you can move step by step to make this draft more polished and cohesive.

[curlylocks]

I'm with Aelwydd. He's not doomed. (And neither are you.) :grouphug:

 

Time to back up a few steps, that's all. Would your sensibilities allow you to choose Rod and Staff grammar? Grade 5 would be perfect for a 12yo new to that type of grammar. You could work out each lesson the night before, and be ready to teach him the next day. (That's what I did the first time I went through it.) The teacher's manual will tell you everything, and even includes daily oral drill.

 

R&S grade 5 will address all the errors I noticed in his paragraph. If he's a sixth-grader, don't let the number on the book throw either of you. (Put a book cover on it if he's really sensitive to grade level.) There are only 10 levels of R&S, so using it a year 'behind' is not really behind at all.

 

You might want to also look at FLL and WWE or WWS. R&S was WTM-recommended in the past, and all I've used, but others are having more fun with SWB's new options, I think. ;)

 

R & S looks promising!! (It isn't something I had even considered before, but I like the format.)

 

Do you order direct from that company??

[Lang Syne Boardie]

R & S looks promising!! (It isn't something I had even considered before, but I like the format.)

 

Do you order direct from that company??

 

Yes, I do. I've been ordering from them for years. I always feel that the shipping is kind of high, so I only order once or twice per year, but I can count on them to be prompt and professional 100% of the time. The books will arrive in absolutely perfect condition every time, as well.

 

R&S is always at conventions, too, at least here in the midwest. That's a great way to save on shipping.

[curlylocks]

So, we worked through the suggestions and this is what he came up with:

 

There are many things a family can do at the beach. If the family likes to swim, they can look for sea life such as fish, star fish and crabs as they swim. After the family goes swimming, they can look for sea glass that is frosted on the beach. They can have a picnic with sandwiches and drinks. After the family eats, they can go kayaking around the cove. The family can build sand castles and have a competition to see who can build the tallest sand castle.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Wow, curlylocks! Thanks so much for coming back to share the updated version. Please tell your son that this is a very good paragraph! I enjoyed reading it, and I see no mistakes. (And I want to go to the beach with your family now, because you obviously know how to have fun at the beach.)

[missmoe]

What a great rewrite!

[curlylocks]

Wow, curlylocks! Thanks so much for coming back to share the updated version. Please tell your son that this is a very good paragraph! I enjoyed reading it, and I see no mistakes. (And I want to go to the beach with your family now, because you obviously know how to have fun at the beach.)

 

 

What a great rewrite!

 

Thank you!! :D

[LibraryLover]

WWE (you can test for level at Peacehillpress.com). ? If the child is 12, I think it could be OK to go straight to WWS.

Edited February 10, 2012 by LibraryLover

[TXBeth]

Wow, curlylocks! Thanks so much for coming back to share the updated version. Please tell your son that this is a very good paragraph! I enjoyed reading it, and I see no mistakes. (And I want to go to the beach with your family now, because you obviously know how to have fun at the beach.)

 

:iagree:

[Stacy in NJ]

He's not writing in complete sentences. I'd working on identifying subjects and predicates (the part that name and the part that tell more). I'd also work on basic comma usage - using commas in a list..ect.

 

I think the content of the paragraph itself is fine. It.s the mechanics that need alot of work.

 

Basically, he needs much practive with constructing complete sentences - not fregments and not run-ons.

[funnygirl]

Thank you to the OP for being willing to put yourself out there and let us learn with you. Writing seems to be my theme this week, so your post was particularly timely for me.

 

Way to go Curlylocks and DS!! :thumbup:

[LibraryLover]

:iagree:

Thank you to the OP for being willing to put yourself out there and let us learn with you. Writing seems to be my theme this week, so your post was particularly timely for me.

 

Way to go Curlylocks and DS!! :thumbup:

[curlylocks]

You're welcome!! :)

 

I have to admit that I was a little bit nervous about putting myself and ds "out there" for everyone to see. If I helped even one person then it was all worth it.

[mktkcb]

I would say that first, you need to help him make his topic sentence more specific. All 3 points should be in it: swimming, looking for sea life, and glass hunting. "_,_, and _ are all exciting things to do at the beach"; "Some enjoyable beach activities are _,_, and _" ...something along those lines. Then help him make 2 sentences or so about each. Ask questions...WHY is _ fun? WHAT is it like doing _? WHO can you do it with? Add sensory details (cold water splashing, tickling sand crabs..). Restate the topic sentence in a different way for the conclusion. "_,_,and _ all make for a fantastic day at the beach!" or something of that ilk. Anyway, my 2c. He has stuff there to work with, it just needs to be worked with kwim?

[curlylocks]

You're welcome!! :)

 

I have to admit that I was a little bit nervous about putting myself and ds "out there" for everyone to see. If I helped even one person then it was all worth it.

 

I came back to update the Hive... :)

 

We went with R & S Grade 5 and what a difference it has made. I can't wait to share his latest writing assignment with you. I am one happy Momma... :D

[busymama7]

Oh, don't feel bad! Look, I'm not kidding when I say his writing is still better than a considerable number of high school students, and even college students. Tibbie gave some excellent advice to address poor grammatical structure. I would suggest that you really push him to read, read, read books. That is the best "teacher" for learning how to write. It's more important, IMO, than even practice writing.

 

I really love SWB's example of how we expect students to write way too early in their educational journey. Like asking someone who has had only a year of French, to explain the problem of evil in writing. You cannot write what you don't know. Reading is what instills the language, teaches its nuance and fluidity and syntax. You have the right idea, giving him an assignment like this that is small, and starting from the ground up, rather than just throwing huge assignments at him.

 

I don't think he's doomed at all. ;)

 

I agree with this but wanted to add that I really enjoyed Andrew pudwea's speech Nurturing Competent Communicators and his discussion of why listening to reading aloud is even more essential than reading to themselves. Not all kids who read a lot are going to just pick up good writing by exposure.