Online dual enrollment class a disaster -- now what?

[Christy B]

Well, this is a fine mess I've gotten my daughter into!

 

I convinced her that it would be a good idea to sign up for two online dual enrollment classes at our local community college (my theory being that it would burn up way too much time driving to and from school to be profitable). Well, she did and it's a disaster.

 

The instructors did NOT post a legitimate syllabus -- NO due dates or assignments were given, just a nebulous "this is what you should learn" list and a breakdown of what would constitute their grade. One instructor is "disappointed" in the participation on the discussion forum, so now he has decided to assign twice as much work. Another instructor posted an EXAM assignment on Monday -- the exam deadline was Tuesday night. Less than 36 hours to be notified of, and complete and submit a mid-term exam, is not reasonable IMO. My daughter e-mailed the instructor, explained that because she is in other classes and volunteer work on Mondays and Tuesdays, she did not see the assignment in time to complete it (sadly, she did not log in until Wednesday; obviously, that was a lack of consistency on her part). The instructor refused, and said "I always post assignments by noon on Monday -- you need to be sure to check". Well, this instructor posted ANOTHER assignment yesterday, due by midnight TONIGHT. Again, less than 36 hours to complete an assignment.

 

I'm afraid my daughter is going to FAIL this course, and it's going to be on an official transcript and follow her everywhere. It would have been better for her not to have taken ANY courses than to take them and fail!

 

What on earth should we do?

 

She was not assigned a faculty adviser, either. I realize that colleges HATE parents who intervene but honestly, I'm tempted to go meet with the (very nice and very helpful) director of enrollment who helped us get registered.

[Teachin'Mine]

I would check immediately on whether you're in time for withdrawing from the courses. It doesn't sound at all fair with the time given for the exam and assignments. W is better than a poor grade. :grouphug:

[Christy B]

I would check immediately on whether you're in time for withdrawing from the courses. It doesn't sound at all fair with the time given for the exam and assignments. W is better than a poor grade. :grouphug:

 

Sadly, we are well past that point. Things went fine for the first six weeks, and then it's been rapidly downhill from there. But you are absolutely right, and if we were still in that window, you can be sure she would be withdrawing!

[Musicmom]

:iagree:I agree with Teachin'Mine. I'd suggest withdrawing immediately if at all possible. This sounds like a nightmare, and a low grade in a dual enrollment course is not good to have. A seasoned homeschool mom once warned me (and others) of this years ago. She allowed her dd to get a C in a dual enrollment class and it hindered the dd's future college plans.

 

ETA: Oops, just saw your post above that you're past the withdraw date.:o Probably what she'll have to do is really take it by the horns--check constantly for assignments, stay in close contact with the instructor, be prepared to put other things on hold in order to do the assignments, etc. :glare: Argh. I'd be upset, too. :grouphug:

Edited October 22, 2011 by Musicmom
clarification; update

[Christy B]

I'm trying to navigate through the ridiculous college website, and it does look like dropping the class might be possible. We're going to drive over to the college on Monday, with printouts of all correspondence between my daughter and the instructors, and meet with the director of enrollment. If there is any way possible, I'll withdraw her from at least the one class.

[Barbara H]

Step one would be for your daughter to email and set up a time to meet with the instructor, preferably in person if possible. If the instructor does not respond or is totally unreasonable the next step would be for your daughter to go to the department chair. I would only suggest the later if the instructor has actually violated policies by for example not responding to emails, not posting tests on schedule, etc. If it is past the date to withdraw from the class this may be a "make it work" moment where she's going to have to figure out whatever she can do to get as many points as there are available for the rest of the semester.

[Christy B]

Step one would be for your daughter to email and set up a time to meet with the instructor, preferably in person if possible. If the instructor does not respond or is totally unreasonable the next step would be for your daughter to go to the department chair. I would only suggest the later if the instructor has actually violated policies by for example not responding to emails, not posting tests on schedule, etc. If it is past the date to withdraw from the class this may be a "make it work" moment where she's going to have to figure out whatever she can do to get as many points as there are available for the rest of the semester.

 

The instructor is not available to meet on campus; she has responded to e-mails but obviously she has no intention of following her self-proclaimed "policies".

 

She has already asked if there is anything she can do to make up missed work, turn in assignments for extra credit, etc -- the instructor said no, that she ALWAYS posted assignments on Monday before noon. This was on Wednesday. The instructor then posted an assignment YESTERDAY (Thursday) due tonight at midnight. Until tonight, my advice for my daughter was "do the best you can on every assignment and try to pass".

[Barbara H]

Does the instructor have office hours where she is available by phone or Skype?

 

Does the syllabus give a breakdown of the points and values of the tests, assignments, etc.? If so, one place to start would be to look at how many points are available for the rest of the semester and figure out what the best case scenario is and work from there. If that information isn't on the syllabus or the online classroom, your daughter needs to ask for a breakdown and if she doesn't get answers then go to the department chair.

 

While it is understandable to be upset or feel it is unfair, if it is past the date to withdraw from the course, the only option is probably to shift into the mode of doing whatever it takes to get as many of the points available for the rest of the semester.

[Teachin'Mine]

Based on that, I'd be very surprised if they don't allow your daughter to drop the one class, at least, on Monday. What that professor is doing is not okay.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[Christy B]

Does the instructor have office hours where she is available by phone or Skype?

 

Does the syllabus give a breakdown of the points and values of the tests, assignments, etc.? If so, one place to start would be to look at how many points are available for the rest of the semester and figure out what the best case scenario is and work from there. If that information isn't on the syllabus or the online classroom, your daughter needs to ask for a breakdown and if she doesn't get answers then go to the department chair.

 

While it is understandable to be upset or feel it is unfair, if it is past the date to withdraw from the course, the only option is probably to shift into the mode of doing whatever it takes to get as many of the points available for the rest of the semester.

 

This is excellent advice, thank you! Withdrawing may not be an option, in which case focusing on getting the best possible grade in the time left will be her only option.

[Ohdanigirl]

Maybe I am the only one who thinks so, but I really don't see this as unreasonable. My BIL is taking an online class, and it is not unheard of for this to happen. He checks his account a couple times a day (morning, afternoon, and before bed at 11PM) He has had many assignments that are given at 3PM and due the next morning by 10AM. I looked at his syllabus and, I saw no concrete due dates or assignments. The school's view is usually that it is the student's responsibility to keep up with assignments. I have never heard of a prof. taking other classes, work, or volunteer work into consideration. It is up to the student to juggle those things.

 

I know it is not what you want to hear, and I really do feel for you. When I was in school I was raising two troubled teens and my own two babies. I was on little sleep and stretched very thin. I actually lost percentage points in one class, because I was called out of class for an "emergency" at my BIL's high school. At this point, I really think your dd should work on getting as many points as possible, and checking her account a few times a day.

 

I hope this works out for you.

 

Danielle

[Teachin'Mine]

Maybe I am the only one who thinks so, but I really don't see this as unreasonable. My BIL is taking an online class, and it is not unheard of for this to happen. He checks his account a couple times a day (morning, afternoon, and before bed at 11PM) He has had many assignments that are given at 3PM and due the next morning by 10AM. I looked at his syllabus and, I saw no concrete due dates or assignments. The school's view is usually that it is the student's responsibility to keep up with assignments. I have never heard of a prof. taking other classes, work, or volunteer work into consideration. It is up to the student to juggle those things.

 

I know it is not what you want to hear, and I really do feel for you. When I was in school I was raising two troubled teens and my own two babies. I was on little sleep and stretched very thin. I actually lost percentage points in one class, because I was called out of class for an "emergency" at my BIL's high school. At this point, I really think your dd should work on getting as many points as possible, and checking her account a few times a day.

 

I hope this works out for you.

 

Danielle

 

Seriously, this is usual for an online class? :confused:

 

What would possibly be the benefit for a class to be set up this way? Wouldn't the student be able to demonstrate their mastery of the assignment just as well if they were given a week's notice? I would also think that it's easier for an online class professor to know ahead of time when the assignments will be due and the test dates.

 

Learning all the time here. :tongue_smilie:

[Amy in TX]

Dd withdrew from an online Spanish class this fall. Impossibly complicated interface, class requirements not spelled out clearly in one place, hard-to-contact teacher.

 

Your dd has my sympathy! :grouphug:

[claire up north]

If dropping the class is no longer a possibility, perhaps she can take it as a Pass/Fail course.

 

Also, I would have dd call the dean. If that didn't go anywhere, I'd call the dean myself.

 

good luck!

[beaners]

Maybe I am the only one who thinks so, but I really don't see this as unreasonable. My BIL is taking an online class, and it is not unheard of for this to happen. He checks his account a couple times a day (morning, afternoon, and before bed at 11PM) He has had many assignments that are given at 3PM and due the next morning by 10AM. I looked at his syllabus and, I saw no concrete due dates or assignments. The school's view is usually that it is the student's responsibility to keep up with assignments. I have never heard of a prof. taking other classes, work, or volunteer work into consideration. It is up to the student to juggle those things.

 

 

I've taken a few online classes and most assignments were posted for a week. The whole reason these classes are offered at most schools is to allow people with other obligations (work, family, etc) the opportunity to earn credits without being forced into the normal schoolday timetable. It really doesn't make sense for things to be required with such a quick turnaround. I have had plenty of assignments that were only able to be turned in within a certain time frame, but most of those had been posted a week earlier. Actually, for most of my classes, a list of the assignments through the end of the semester was up by the second or third week of class.

 

It isn't unusual for online teachers to do a poor job following their own guidelines for communication. I avoid confrontation at all costs most of the time, but I'd fight this.

[Christy B]

Maybe I am the only one who thinks so, but I really don't see this as unreasonable. My BIL is taking an online class, and it is not unheard of for this to happen. He checks his account a couple times a day (morning, afternoon, and before bed at 11PM) He has had many assignments that are given at 3PM and due the next morning by 10AM. I looked at his syllabus and, I saw no concrete due dates or assignments. The school's view is usually that it is the student's responsibility to keep up with assignments. I have never heard of a prof. taking other classes, work, or volunteer work into consideration. It is up to the student to juggle those things.

 

I know it is not what you want to hear, and I really do feel for you. When I was in school I was raising two troubled teens and my own two babies. I was on little sleep and stretched very thin. I actually lost percentage points in one class, because I was called out of class for an "emergency" at my BIL's high school. At this point, I really think your dd should work on getting as many points as possible, and checking her account a few times a day.

 

I hope this works out for you.

 

Danielle

 

I absolutely understand where you're coming from. I do not expect the instructor to take my daughter's other classes or volunteer work into consideration and I agree it's up to her to juggle those things -- that's why she enrolled in an online class instead of a classroom. She was told in online orientation that assignments would be posted on Monday and due by midnight the following Sunday night. That's the part that I'm finding unreasonable.

 

You are absolutely correct, though, in saying that this is commonplace. We know that now and she won't be signing up for any more online classes. A huge part of the problem is that it is very common for instructors to "forget" to make their assignments visible to the students. Apparently it's a two step process it is not at all unusual for the instructor to think they've posted an assignment and forget to make it accessible to the students.

[1Togo]

Dh has been taking online classes for over a year. The syllabus for each class is posted one week before the class begins. The classes follow a typical online format; i.e. weekly discussions with a specific due date, quizzes and tests with specific due dates, and papers with specific due dates. He checks the discussion forums every evening because a portion of his discussion grade comes from his responses to posts by other students. He cannot deal with school during his workday, so circumstances like what you have described; i.e. quick turnaround, surprise due dates, etc. would be impossible for him. I don't think what you describe is normal, and I would be advocating for your daughter.

Edited October 22, 2011 by 1Togo

[mcconnellboys]

I'd contact the Ombudsman for the university. I've never heard of such a thing happening before!

[kiana]

I absolutely understand where you're coming from. I do not expect the instructor to take my daughter's other classes or volunteer work into consideration and I agree it's up to her to juggle those things -- that's why she enrolled in an online class instead of a classroom. She was told in online orientation that assignments would be posted on Monday and due by midnight the following Sunday night. That's the part that I'm finding unreasonable.

 

You are absolutely correct, though, in saying that this is commonplace. We know that now and she won't be signing up for any more online classes. A huge part of the problem is that it is very common for instructors to "forget" to make their assignments visible to the students. Apparently it's a two step process it is not at all unusual for the instructor to think they've posted an assignment and forget to make it accessible to the students.

 

Since it directly contradicts what you're told in orientation and she's given you contradictory information herself, I'd definitely complain. If at all possible I'd give your dd advice, the printouts of the papers, roleplay it in advance and have HER complain, though. I'd also continue to do all the work possible in case the complaint fails and she can't withdraw.

[2cents]

Both my children and myself have taken many online college courses. This is NOT normal.

 

While I encourage letting the student work on the problems, there is a time when the parent needs to get involved. It looks like you need to shoot off an email to the instructor to question her protocol and depending on her response, take it from there. I'd intervene asap.

 

Even if she is outside the drop time-frame, I'd push for an exception based on the misinformation and confusion created by the instructor.

[Murphy101]

Since it directly contradicts what you're told in orientation and she's given you contradictory information herself, I'd definitely complain. If at all possible I'd give your dd advice, the printouts of the papers, roleplay it in advance and have HER complain, though. I'd also continue to do all the work possible in case the complaint fails and she can't withdraw.

 

:iagree:

 

Yet another example of not all classes being equal. Do your research as thoroughly as possible BEFORE enrolling. Be extremely picky and demand very clear guidelines in writing. If you can't get them - RUN in the other direction. If the class doesn't match the info - report it to higher ups. Diplomticly, of course.;)

[Barbara H]

Generally I believe it is a mistake for parents to communicate with college professors or administrators. Students are dual enrolled with the idea that they can take on the responsibilities of college students and that includes taking responsibility for dealing with grades and conflicts. It can really take away from your child being taken seriously if mom steps in. Of course, behind the scenes you can certainly coach her and help her figure it out, but I would expect her to be the one to make the contact with the instructor and take it up the chain if she needs to.

 

If the instructor is not "showing up" in class or answering emails or is totally disregarding the syllabus she will have a stronger case. A lot of the people in online classes have full time jobs and kids so I don't think she'll get too far with the idea that as a high school student who volunteers she doesn't have time to check every day. One reason why some instructors require the course to be checked daily is that sometimes people take online classes because they think they will be easier because they don't have to go to class and as a result there can be a low completion rate. So, instructors may see daily check in as the trade off for not needing to go to class and as something necessary to keep students involved in the course.

 

If she does fail or get a D there is one more thing you may want to investigate. Some colleges allow students to retake a course again for a new grade. Sometimes both grades will appear on the transcript but only the later one is included in the GPA. Sometimes the first grade drops off the transcript totally. Typically the student has to pay the full price for the retake and if they are taking the course at a reduced price under dual enrollment it might not be eligible. So, it may not be a super appealing option, but something to be aware of in case the worst happens.

[Josie]

Our high school dd doesn't do CC courses, but she does do online courses. I can tell you that this has NEVER happened with her online course work. I would be LIVID if it did. Sounds to me like the professor is NOT on the ball. I would have your child talk to the department head and then go up from there if things are rectified.

[Kareni]

She was told in online orientation that assignments would be posted on Monday and due by midnight the following Sunday night. That's the part that I'm finding unreasonable.

 

 

 

 

If the online orientation information stated this, I think your daughter has every reason to file a complaint and ask to be withdrawn from the class.

 

I'm in agreement with other posters who stated that it should be your daughter who takes the initiative in communicating with the appropriate person be it Ombudsman or Dean.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Dana]

Generally I believe it is a mistake for parents to communicate with college professors or administrators. Students are dual enrolled with the idea that they can take on the responsibilities of college students and that includes taking responsibility for dealing with grades and conflicts. It can really take away from your child being taken seriously if mom steps in. Of course, behind the scenes you can certainly coach her and help her figure it out, but I would expect her to be the one to make the contact with the instructor and take it up the chain if she needs to.

 

As an instructor, I'm not allowed to talk with anyone other than the person taking my course.

 

The process is first to talk with the instructor, then the department chair if things aren't resolved. (At least it's this way at the 2 cc's I've taught at.)

[Mona100]

I graduated from an online bachelor's program. This is not normal at all. You didn't have surprise assignments due in less than 48 hours and the syllabus had a weekly breakdown with clear due dates. We did have participation grades and we were strongly encouraged to check the online course every day; so, your daughter needs to get into that habit. But I would fight this.

[Photo Ninja]

This is not usual, but it happens sometimes. My dc have taken a few online courses, and one ds had a horrible experience in one because the teacher sometimes didn't answer emails, changed the due dates for assignments after they were turned in, resulting in failed grades because the changed date was prior to the original due date, etc. So many students complained that the teacher either left the school or was fired at the end of the course. Of course, the students were left with poor grades because the changed due dates were done in the computer system, and students had no way to prove anything. Live and learn, I guess.

 

But since you can demonstrate in writing that there was an assignment posted on the wrong day and that the due date was the next day, your dd, or you and your dd, can complain and ask to withdraw from the course without a "W" on the transcript. Let the school official know that there have been repeated differences between what was stated as policy in the orientation and what is actually happening in the course, and that the instructor has not been helpful.

 

Hopefully, since you have all this in writing or online (the postings of the assignment and the due dates) , the school official will do something to help your dd get out of the class.

 

If a school official won't help, then you may want to consider withdrawing from the course anyway, with a "W" on the transcript if your dd is past the drop date. That would be better than a grade of a D or F, if that would be the grade you suspect your dd will get.

[Bluegoat]

Some schools have rules about the course syllabus and sticking to it, and how long students should have to complete substantial assignments. I'd look at that if you haven't already.

 

But otherwise, I would complain to the dean of the faculty. I'd have you dd outline her difficulty and point out that the instructor is not only failing to follow her own outline, she is giving false information about when she posts assignments.

[Renee in NC]

Maybe I am the only one who thinks so, but I really don't see this as unreasonable. My BIL is taking an online class, and it is not unheard of for this to happen. He checks his account a couple times a day (morning, afternoon, and before bed at 11PM) He has had many assignments that are given at 3PM and due the next morning by 10AM. I looked at his syllabus and, I saw no concrete due dates or assignments. The school's view is usually that it is the student's responsibility to keep up with assignments. I have never heard of a prof. taking other classes, work, or volunteer work into consideration. It is up to the student to juggle those things.

 

I know it is not what you want to hear, and I really do feel for you. When I was in school I was raising two troubled teens and my own two babies. I was on little sleep and stretched very thin. I actually lost percentage points in one class, because I was called out of class for an "emergency" at my BIL's high school. At this point, I really think your dd should work on getting as many points as possible, and checking her account a few times a day.

 

I hope this works out for you.

 

Danielle

 

In my online classes, everything is explicitly spelled out on the syllabus. In addition, all assignments are listed, their due dates, and detailed instructions. There are no surprises. I have taken classes from 2 different colleges and my dh has taken classes at another - this was true of all 3 AND the FL Virtual School.

 

I cannot imagine an online class with no scheduled class hours being so disorganized and vague.

[Ohdanigirl]

I think I should clarify. I am not saying I agree. I would hope that they would be more organized. From personal experience, I would say many online cc classes are held this way, and most cc's side with the teacher. Just trying to prepare you for that. If I ever signed up for an online class, I would go in expecting this kind of things.

 

Again, as I said, BIL is taking an online class. He has taken steps to deal with these things. He just started learning English last year, so the assignment can be very tough. His prof does not take that into consideration at all. He is expected to keep up with everyone else. It was frustrating at first, but he has really learned to become organized despite the chaos.

 

Danielle

[Teachin'Mine]

Any update Christy?

[Christy B]

An update (thanks for asking!):

 

"organized despite the chaos" is indeed the lesson we have learned (a positive lesson).

 

As it turns out, there was a complete turnaround in the classes.

 

The computer class, which had some rather random postings of assignments, is going much better. Dd was able to communicate with the instructor. She explained that she was going to be out of internet range on some search and rescue training weekends, and asked if she could get her assignments ahead of time rather than risk something being posted on Friday, due Sunday, and miss it altogether. The instructor was tremendously encouraging and cooperative. In fact, since my daughter missed that one exam, and initiated contact in which she respectfully pointed out that postings were irregular, the instructor has started posting weekly "heads up" messages with assignments that will be posted and when they will be due. She even encouraged my daughter that despite her missed exam, she was pleased with her work and she was confident that she would get a good grade.

 

The other class, we ended up dropping. The instructor failed to reply to three requests for information, help, and an explanation of why there was a failing grade. The admissions office was WONDERFUL to us. They consider ME my daughter's "faculty advisor", since she is a dual enrolled student. They welcome my input and involvement and assume that it is perfectly natural and reasonable that I would be involved with my daughter's courses. My daughter filled out the drop form and emailed it to the instructor. The way it works, he was supposed to fill out his portion of the form, return it to her, and she was to then take it to Student Records. However, my dd cc'd the person in charge of online classes (per instructions from the admissions office). She also sent a separate note to this person, explaining why she was dropping the class. The next day, she had a response from the lady who said she had received the form, and SHE was taking care of it -- filing it with student records and everything. Nothing was said, exactly, but I got the distinct impression that they were not surprised, and that they fully supported my daughter. It's a shame; it was a fascinating and very useful class. I hope she will try it again -- maybe ON CAMPUS this summer. :-)

 

Whew. MANY lessons learned. Thank you, everyone, for your feedback, suggestions, and moral support.

[Lori D.]

Hurray! One class turned around and headed in a great direction, and lots of WONDERFUL life lessons learned! I'd say that is well worth the price of having to drop one of the classes.

 

And BEST of luck to DD in the second half of her semester! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Teachin'Mine]

Hurray! One class turned around and headed in a great direction, and lots of WONDERFUL life lessons learned! I'd say that is well worth the price of having to drop one of the classes.

 

And BEST of luck to DD in the second half of her semester! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

:iagree: Thank you for letting us know how it all turned out - great job!!! :)