SewLittleTime Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I really don't remember fractions being this complicated. Is it me or does MUS make it just that complicated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 :bigear: we haven't started epsilon yet; but I have tutored fractions, and know children often struggle with them ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SewLittleTime Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 I'm finding that Epsilon is making it way harder than it really needs to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 What makes it harder? I started my son in Prealgebra but picked up the Epsilon DVD to reinforce understanding for my son. Things like "don't ask why, just flip & multiply" may be "easier" but they don't add to understanding. I didn't even know you could divide fractions without doing that & felt like it helped my understanding and my son's. But knowing that the other strategy is faster and easier, I could see why it might seem like unnecessarily complicating things. Not sure if that's what you were referring to though! Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 MUS teaches fractions in a way so that you understand why the tricks work before they show you the tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeefreak Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Is your child in 4th? We were using A Beka in 4th and BOMBED the fractions! We switched to Saxon 5/4 (they don't start fractions till 6/7). Now, dd is in 6th grade, doing Epsilon and FLYING through it. It may just be that your kiddo isn't ready for fractions. Have you always used MUS? Could you maybe do something else and go back to it? Blessings! Dorinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veggiegal Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Many students find fractions difficult. In fact, the two concepts--from what I'd consider "basic math"--that I'd say I've spent the most working on with my tutoring students have been fractions and negative numbers. Simple conceptually, but lots of kids get very confused when asked to manipulate them (add, subtract, multiply, divide). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Shot Academy Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Epsilon is the only MUS book that I have not liked. That is the only one my oldest struggled with. I think the largest problem is that he does not teach them to reduce and find the least common denominator soon enough so the kids are working with huge numbers, which is just intimidating. i think they should dumb down the numbers and make it super easy until they teach that, or teach it first. My husband ended up teaching it to my son and the rest of the book went okay. My daughter is on about lesson 8 and I am considering doing the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) That's when we switched to TT. ;) I could not wrap my head around the fraction manipulatives or the sample Epsilon lesson from the site. To me, it seemed that they made it way more complicated than it needed to be. I don't think simplicity (or logic, ease-of-use, etc.) ought to be sacrificed on the altar of kinesthetics. The two marry well, but they don't divorce nicely. Edited October 19, 2011 by specialmama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SewLittleTime Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Ds is doing fine with it. He is getting it pretty easily, but even he is figuring out the tricks and saying why do I have to do it this longer way. Which is somewhat frustrating b/c I want him to know the why's behind it. But he could honestly care less about why. He just wants to be done with math, so he can move on to reading a book or his history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothergooseof4 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 This is funny because this is seeming to help my 6th grade ds who has always struggled with fractions. The overlays have helped him to see why you have to multiply BOTH the numerator and denominator by the same number. I see him using the rule of 4 in his TT7 lessons. Granted, we are only on lesson 5 or 6 so maybe it gets more confusing, but so far I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SewLittleTime Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 This is funny because this is seeming to help my 6th grade ds who has always struggled with fractions. The overlays have helped him to see why you have to multiply BOTH the numerator and denominator by the same number. I see him using the rule of 4 in his TT7 lessons. Granted, we are only on lesson 5 or 6 so maybe it gets more confusing, but so far I like it. They are all different. Aren't they?:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SewLittleTime Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 Guess I spoke to early about him getting it. Hhe missed every single problem today. He was having an off day behaviourly, but really every.single.one? I am not feeling the love for Epsilon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veggiegal Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Guess I spoke to early about him getting it. Hhe missed every single problem today. He was having an off day behaviourly, but really every.single.one? I am not feeling the love for Epsilon. You're ahead of us, so I am not speaking from personal experience, but many of my IRL friends and folks on the living math list recommend Key to Fractions. They're cheap, so it might be worth a try if you want/need a break from Epsilon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SewLittleTime Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 You're ahead of us, so I am not speaking from personal experience, but many of my IRL friends and folks on the living math list recommend Key to Fractions. They're cheap, so it might be worth a try if you want/need a break from Epsilon. Interesting! I looked at samples and it teaches multiplication and division of fractions before adding and subtracting. They are also super cheap. Which is a huge bonus, since I'm have no money in my homeschool budget at this point. But I could definately swing those. I'm going to sleep on this gem of a recommendation, redo today's lesson with him tomorrow, and reevaluate after the lesson. Thanks for the idea.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketgirl Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I don't think it's Math U See. Some of the goals of Math U See are that they explain how and why and teach for understanding, and so the manipulatives. I for one think the fraction manipulatives and how they are used are amazing! Mr. Demme has shown us on the videos things I never understood until now. But if your child doesn't need the "concrete" examples, maybe you can just move on to the end of the lesson? We've used Math U See from Primer through Epsilon now and love it, but there have been a time or two that we've moved past the concrete examples to just learning the rule, and that's ok with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintedlady Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 When my son was doing Epsilon, he started to really struggle around lesson 10 and just wasn't getting it. He's always been 1-2 years ahead so this was surprising. I ended up getting him all 4 Key To Fractions books and had him do all of those before going back to Epsilon. He finished Epsilon with no problem then. He's now flying through Zeta. With my daughter, who's always a year or 2 behind, I had her complete all of the Key To Fractions books before starting Epsilon. She's on lesson 2 now and still struggling, but that's not unusual for her. Epsilon has been my least favorite book so far. I don't know exactly what I don't like about it, because it does break down the problems, but there's just something that doesn't click with me. That said, we still love MUS and plan to continue with it, but having the gentle introduction of the Key To series really helped. I love them as a supplement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiree77 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I'm going through Epsilon for the second time, and I think it's worth pushing through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running the race Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 This is my third time through Epsilon. My boys had no problem with it. My daughter does the lesson and makes numerous mistakes. We redo the concepts and take the test. She scores badly. I have her correct the mistakes, and we move on. I love the fraction overlays. I do not love the way they teach division before introducing the "flipping". It does seem way to complicated. It is certainly not helping her understanding. It just confuses her. I may try the "Key to" books. We are already supplementing with Khan Academy and some extra worksheets form the worksheet generator. So I don't know if it the problem is the book, the particular child (my daughter), or a combination of the two, but this book is making me want to pull my hair out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear23 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) Epsilon is the only MUS book that I have not liked. That is the only one my oldest struggled with. I think the largest problem is that he does not teach them to reduce and find the least common denominator soon enough so the kids are working with huge numbers, which is just intimidating. i think they should dumb down the numbers and make it super easy until they teach that, or teach it first. My husband ended up teaching it to my son and the rest of the book went okay. My daughter is on about lesson 8 and I am considering doing the same. So glad to come on here. My dd is at this lesson and even I am getting frusterated with the program and I have been using it since since Gamma and my younger one have stared from the very beginning. Just saw that this is an old post but it's actually helping me. :) Off to find some extras for Lesson 8. She has done well with 9 and 10 but 8 and problems that go with that lesson have been missed every time. Frusterating. Edited May 11, 2012 by Navywife2chief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehogs4 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 We just finished Epsilon. Honestly, I thought DS would be in fractions forever, but we persevered and I can tell you that he REALLY UNDERSTANDS FRACTIONS. He scored 100% on his last unit test and 97% on the final test. Now that we are in Zeta, he is blazing through because he understands the concept of fractional values as they relate to decimals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintedlady Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 sorry, double posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketgirl Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 we just spent the last year + on MUS epsilon. (after using MUS since Beta, successfully, so there was never any question about our 'program') MUS teaches for understanding, that's its basis, that's what it does. We spent the whole last year working, doing, seeing, working some more, using, adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing, converting, and god knows what else with fractions. I think we have done everything anyone could ever do with fractions. Yes, it was hard but there may not be anything left that my child hasn't done with fractions! Plus in Epsilon you also spend lots of time working algebraic equations with and w/o fractions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Shot Academy Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 So funny this thread popped back up! I was just wondering yesterday when my daughter started the Epsilon level because she is just finishing it up now. She has done much better with it than my son! She really has had no problems other than dawdling and forgetting a couple multiplication facts. My son is in Algebra now and doing great. I am an even bigger fan of MUS now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudGrandma Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I am thankful for this thread. My daughter just started using Epsilon. She struggles with math. Maybe I will get Key to Fractions for her to do this summer...and then hit Epsilon in the fall. Would this be a good idea do you think??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I am thankful for this thread. My daughter just started using Epsilon. She struggles with math. Maybe I will get Key to Fractions for her to do this summer...and then hit Epsilon in the fall. Would this be a good idea do you think??? This is roughly what I'm doing. I actually didn't like some of the MUS presentation, so we're working through Key to Fractions during a little MUS break and I may pick it up again when we're done, or partway through. I do like Key to Fractions so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommamia Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Is your child in 4th? We were using A Beka in 4th and BOMBED the fractions! We switched to Saxon 5/4 (they don't start fractions till 6/7). Now, dd is in 6th grade, doing Epsilon and FLYING through it. It may just be that your kiddo isn't ready for fractions. Have you always used MUS? Could you maybe do something else and go back to it? Blessings! Dorinda Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 My third kid went through Ep. and though they seem difficult at first, it's worth hanging in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 We just finished Epsilon. Honestly, I thought DS would be in fractions forever, but we persevered and I can tell you that he REALLY UNDERSTANDS FRACTIONS. He scored 100% on his last unit test and 97% on the final test. Now that we are in Zeta, he is blazing through because he understands the concept of fractional values as they relate to decimals. :iagree::iagree: Yep, that's what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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