Well that didn't last long....

[Runningmom80]

The honeymoon period has ended. :glare: It ended 3 weeks ago, but I've been trying to find a happy medium. No such luck.

 

 

We started with Spelling, Math and handwriting.

 

--He hates handwriting, always has, this is nothing new.

 

--Math, he is bored with. Singapore 1A. He doesn't know the number bonds, but wants to talk about multiplication all day. I read on the Hoagies site that HG+ kids sometimes need to learn concepts in a parallel progression instead of linearly. Um.....what? :lol::lol::lol::lol: I know what it means, but do I skip ahead and pray the arithmetic comes along? He gets the whole number bonds,and partsto a whole thing, he just doesn't know the facts, and wants nothing to do with drills or games. He will sometimes play math dice, I guess we can just keep doing that for a while.

I ordered LOF Apples, and he read the whole thing during a 2 hour car trip. (HE wanted to bring it, I had no idea he would actually read it. :001_huh: He doesn't want to go over itagain, he can tell me what happened in every chapter. I just ordered the rest, and I'll hold them hostage and read them with him this time. I'm not really sure where they fit into our curriculum, but, it can't hurt, right?

 

--spelling- AAS 1. So bored with it. The words have all been extremely easy for him. He had some phonograms to learn, especially the vowels, so I'm glad we started with level 1, but now we are at a stand off at step 15. Whining, complaining, carrying on. He hates writing, but now that the words are getting bigger, he needs to see the word as he spells it,or he gets it wrong. He won't use the tiles. I'm thinking I may just write the word for him to finish out the level. I started looking at Spelling Power, does anyone have any experience with this?

 

 

Part of the problem is laziness. He just doesn't *want* to do school. So right now, I dropped it all, and just offer up one subject a day, with an activity. He's slowly warming back up to math,but he's seriously all over the place. Yesterday he spent 20 minutes writing addition and multiplication equations on napkins. The answers weren't right, but I just let him go. :001_smile: I've also let him just sit and build things with the cuisinaire rods.

 

 

This is the thing. He's not even 5 yet, he turns 5 in a few weeks. I totally get that there is no pressure for this year, and I don't need to worry about much, since he is already reading. I am not freaking out or anything, just a little confused.

 

I do admit that part of me is a little scared for when I do need to worry about what he is doing, and it does matter what we get done in a day. Do I just cross that bridge when I get to it?

 

I'm researching some other things to try right now. Just wondering if anyone else went through this, and how the turns you took on your journey.

[chepyl]

My son is not 100% on addition and subtraction facts. He is close, but still thinks on anything above 6+6. We are getting there. We are in Singapore 2 a and nearly done. He is doing great with multiplication. I have staggeredthe mental math and IP so that next week we go back to addition in the IP. We do addition and subtraction mental math. No drill sheets. 2b has a little addition at the begining. We will add flashcards until addition is perfect, but he was not doing well until we moved forward. He needs the challenge on new concepts along with the review of facts.

 

Did you do placement tests to pick 1a, or did you just start at tye begining? I would move forward with two digit addition and regrouping. Take a break first amd do some measurement chapters, they have addition, but with a ruler or measuring tape. We had fun measuring the house.

[SKL]

Taking advice that I probably read here, I don't sit down and do math and spelling books with my 4yo. I give her practical problems or story problems or orally test her spelling. The story problems generally involve small numbers but still some reasoning. For example, if I had two bicycles and a car, how many wheels would I have? If I had 8 cookies and I gave each of you half of them, how many would you each get? At a glance, do you think that bowl has more or less than 10 grapes?

 

We also count money. I have 4 containers full of $1 in each of pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters. We count by 1s, 5s, 10s; and we figure out different ways to come up with a given amount, e.g., 12c is 10+2, 5*2+2, 5+7, 1x12, 3x4, etc. Along similar lines, we work on telling time.

 

I plan to introduce workbooks after the concepts are pretty well established, and then she can complete the workbooks at whatever pace she's comfortable with. I also want to make sure she's fully comfortable with working with bigger numbers, before I try to teach tricks like borrowing and carrying.

 

As far as handwriting, I just let my kid write on the whiteboard and write illustrated stories on paper. I plan to introduce letter writing soon (as in, notes to Grandpa). Her writing is reasonably legible for her age, though she does reverse stuff too much. Mostly I just make a friendly comment here and there and she improves gradually.

[Runningmom80]

Yes, I meant to be clear that I'm definitely fine without sitting down and doing something for this year, my concerns are for first grade and beyond. :) I see a little bit of underachieving going on as well, I'd like advice on how to avoid this. I probably wasn't clear in my original post.

[Tranquility7]

At 4, almost 5, I’d say if he is not yet motivated to do school, I wouldn’t do it yet. He is young, and he is a boy. I’m a fan of starting later rather than earlier. There is SO MUCH else he can be doing at this stage. Buy him tons of good books and read them with him/to him, or let him peruse them as he wants. Buy audio stuff that he can listen to while he plays lego or whatever he is into. SOTW audio is GREAT for this, and you might be surprised at how much he absorbs. Also, don’t underestimate how much he can learn simply through oral discussion with you.

 

That being said, I would totally NOT put up with “whining, complaining, carrying onâ€. That is a disciplinable offense at our house. Life is FILLED with unpleasant things, and we must learn to do them cheerfully and diligently, whether it is reviewing math facts or setting the table.

 

If I were you, THAT is what I would work on at this stage. If you teach him that whining and complaining is ok (by not addressing it, and by letting him have his way by it), you will have WAY bigger battles with it later. Who wants a whiney complaining third grader??? Or high schooler?!

 

If you stop school and he has nothing to “complain about†(and thus cannot learn the lesson to not complain) – then I would introduce some age-appropriate (but unpleasant to him) chores and such into his schedule, so that you have plenty of opportunity to correct and teach him gratitude (the opposite of complaining), helping him learn to control his complaining heart. It will pay off in so many ways later (not just in schooling).

 

Incidentally, this is why we enrolled DS in piano. Academics are so easy for him, and he is an eager little student, so we tend to do a lot. But piano is HARD for him! VERY HARD. But he has grown SO MUCH as a person over the last year, from having to learn to have a cheerful attitude while having to do something that was hard and that he did not enjoy. And meanwhile, he has also learned to enjoy it! In spite of all our academics, I honestly consider THAT my biggest accomplishment with him so far.

[Embassy]

I do admit that part of me is a little scared for when I do need to worry about what he is doing, and it does matter what we get done in a day. Do I just cross that bridge when I get to it?

 

I would just cross that bridge when you come to it. At his age I think the most important concept that you can impart is that learning is fun. It sounds like he enjoys learning, but on his own terms. I would let him learn on his own terms for now.

[Runningmom80]

My son is not 100% on addition and subtraction facts. He is close, but still thinks on anything above 6+6. We are getting there. We are in Singapore 2 a and nearly done. He is doing great with multiplication. I have staggeredthe mental math and IP so that next week we go back to addition in the IP. We do addition and subtraction mental math. No drill sheets. 2b has a little addition at the begining. We will add flashcards until addition is perfect, but he was not doing well until we moved forward. He needs the challenge on new concepts along with the review of facts.

 

Did you do placement tests to pick 1a, or did you just start at tye begining? I would move forward with two digit addition and regrouping. Take a break first amd do some measurement chapters, they have addition, but with a ruler or measuring tape. We had fun measuring the house.

 

 

He tested into 1a. He did well with story problems, but didn't know the number groups at all. I'm wondering if I tested him now how he would do. I tested him a while ago.

 

 

Thanks for the advice! I may just move on a little and see what happens.n

[boscopup]

At that age, my oldest resisted anything resembling school. I dropped it. A year later, he started school and was a model student. He's still easy to teach now at 7.

 

I would recommend setting school aside until next year, and in agreement with the pp, focus on character training. You can accelerate in another year or two quite easily. I'm very glad I waited until first grade to start accelerating my son. He learned way more when I wasn't trying to teach him. ;)

 

Do you legally even need to do K yet?

[Crimson Wife]

Yes, I meant to be clear that I'm definitely fine without sitting down and doing something for this year, my concerns are for first grade and beyond. :) I see a little bit of underachieving going on as well, I'd like advice on how to avoid this. I probably wasn't clear in my original post.

 

There's a LOT of maturing that goes on between not-quite-5 and not-quite-6, especially with boys. I would shelve the formal curriculum for a few months and just do "hands-on" activities. Evan-Moor has some good books that are called Take it to Your Seat ____ Centers. DS :001_wub: those last year. The Family Math for Young Children is another good resource for "hands-on" activities.

[JeanM]

The honeymoon period has ended. :glare: It ended 3 weeks ago, but I've been trying to find a happy medium. No such luck.

 

 

We started with Spelling, Math and handwriting.

 

--He hates handwriting, always has, this is nothing new.

 

--Math, he is bored with. Singapore 1A. He doesn't know the number bonds, but wants to talk about multiplication all day. I read on the Hoagies site that HG+ kids sometimes need to learn concepts in a parallel progression instead of linearly. Um.....what? :lol::lol::lol::lol: I know what it means, but do I skip ahead and pray the arithmetic comes along? He gets the whole number bonds,and partsto a whole thing, he just doesn't know the facts, and wants nothing to do with drills or games. He will sometimes play math dice, I guess we can just keep doing that for a while.

I ordered LOF Apples, and he read the whole thing during a 2 hour car trip. (HE wanted to bring it, I had no idea he would actually read it. :001_huh: He doesn't want to go over itagain, he can tell me what happened in every chapter. I just ordered the rest, and I'll hold them hostage and read them with him this time. I'm not really sure where they fit into our curriculum, but, it can't hurt, right?

 

--spelling- AAS 1. So bored with it. The words have all been extremely easy for him. He had some phonograms to learn, especially the vowels, so I'm glad we started with level 1, but now we are at a stand off at step 15. Whining, complaining, carrying on. He hates writing, but now that the words are getting bigger, he needs to see the word as he spells it,or he gets it wrong. He won't use the tiles. I'm thinking I may just write the word for him to finish out the level. I started looking at Spelling Power, does anyone have any experience with this?

 

 

Part of the problem is laziness. He just doesn't *want* to do school. So right now, I dropped it all, and just offer up one subject a day, with an activity. He's slowly warming back up to math,but he's seriously all over the place. Yesterday he spent 20 minutes writing addition and multiplication equations on napkins. The answers weren't right, but I just let him go. :001_smile: I've also let him just sit and build things with the cuisinaire rods.

 

 

You've already gotten lots of good advice. My younger ds (now 10) uses Spelling Power, and it works really well for him, but I don't think I'd use it with a child that young. You could look at it though, and see if it would work for you.

 

Both of my boys hated writing at that age. They liked doing spelling in other ways. Both loved "pudding spelling." Put pudding on a plate, smear it around with a spoon, and let him draw the word in it with his finger. You can do it with sand or rice in a pan too.

 

I'd second the suggestion to skip around in the math book. And letting him just play with cuisinaire rods or other math manipulatives sounds like a good idea too.

 

Hope that helps,

Have fun!

Jean

[Tracy]

--He hates handwriting, always has, this is nothing new.

 

He is very young to be doing a lot of writing. A very common reason for hating handwriting is fatigue. Be sure to offer him lots of hand- and arm-strengthening activities. Coloring with both crayons and colored pencils, play-dough, cutting, and even things like bear-walking and doing the "wheelbarrow" will help to strengthen those muscles. Have him do lots of gross motor writing, such as whiteboard, sidewalk chalk, salt box, sandpaper letters, shaving cream, etc. Give him several months before you try to get him to write on paper (at least for school work).

 

--Math, he is bored with. Singapore 1A. He doesn't know the number bonds, but wants to talk about multiplication all day. I read on the Hoagies site that HG+ kids sometimes need to learn concepts in a parallel progression instead of linearly. Um.....what?:lol:

 

I had this problem with dd at exactly the same age. I knew she wasn't ready for a complete multiplication program (usually 3rd grade), but she hated math so much, we couldn't go on with what we were using. I got a book from the teacher store that was just about multiplication and let her work on that while I researched my options. I eventually settled on CSMP, because it does teach the more advanced concepts along side of the more basic ones. So multiplication is taught at the first grade level and is woven into the lessons on addition so the kids can see the relationship between the two.

 

FWIW, with that experience behind me, I have decided not to do any formal math curriculum with my next dc until age 6, unless he expressly asks for it. If you have a child that is accelerated already, there is just no need to push it.

 

--spelling- AAS 1. So bored with it. The words have all been extremely easy for him. He had some phonograms to learn, especially the vowels, so I'm glad we started with level 1, but now we are at a stand off at step 15. Whining, complaining, carrying on. He hates writing, but now that the words are getting bigger, he needs to see the word as he spells it,or he gets it wrong. He won't use the tiles. I'm thinking I may just write the word for him to finish out the level. I started looking at Spelling Power, does anyone have any experience with this?

 

AAS is a super program. We use SWR, which is a similar program. SWR suggests that children this age should be doing the spelling using gross motor skills. It is vital that he not only see the word as it is spelled but that he actually be the one writing it. If he does it on a white board, for example, he won't get so fatigued, and mistakes are easily erased.

 

 

Part of the problem is laziness. He just doesn't *want* to do school. So right now, I dropped it all, and just offer up one subject a day, with an activity. He's slowly warming back up to math,but he's seriously all over the place. Yesterday he spent 20 minutes writing addition and multiplication equations on napkins. The answers weren't right, but I just let him go. :001_smile: I've also let him just sit and build things with the cuisinaire rods.

 

 

An almost 5yo is not lazy. Developmentally, he is not supposed to want to do school. Don't make him, or you will both pay for it later. You are on the right track here with giving him some time to do his own thing. Keep it up.

[Runningmom80]

He is very young to be doing a lot of writing. A very common reason for hating handwriting is fatigue. Be sure to offer him lots of hand- and arm-strengthening activities. Coloring with both crayons and colored pencils, play-dough, cutting, and even things like bear-walking and doing the "wheelbarrow" will help to strengthen those muscles. Have him do lots of gross motor writing, such as whiteboard, sidewalk chalk, salt box, sandpaper letters, shaving cream, etc. Give him several months before you try to get him to write on paper (at least for school work).

 

 

 

I had this problem with dd at exactly the same age. I knew she wasn't ready for a complete multiplication program (usually 3rd grade), but she hated math so much, we couldn't go on with what we were using. I got a book from the teacher store that was just about multiplication and let her work on that while I researched my options. I eventually settled on CSMP, because it does teach the more advanced concepts along side of the more basic ones. So multiplication is taught at the first grade level and is woven into the lessons on addition so the kids can see the relationship between the two.

 

FWIW, with that experience behind me, I have decided not to do any formal math curriculum with my next dc until age 6, unless he expressly asks for it. If you have a child that is accelerated already, there is just no need to push it.

 

 

 

AAS is a super program. We use SWR, which is a similar program. SWR suggests that children this age should be doing the spelling using gross motor skills. It is vital that he not only see the word as it is spelled but that he actually be the one writing it. If he does it on a white board, for example, he won't get so fatigued, and mistakes are easily erased.

 

 

 

 

An almost 5yo is not lazy. Developmentally, he is not supposed to want to do school. Don't make him, or you will both pay for it later. You are on the right track here with giving him some time to do his own thing. Keep it up.

 

thanks for taking the time to type all that out. I will keep these things in mind. :001_smile:

 

Lazy might not have been the right word, unenthused, maybe? for the first few weeks, he did all 3 subjects just fine, and then in a span of a week, just decided that everything was boring. There is a bit of "I just don't want to," going on.

 

I'm realizing that his perfectionism isn't help anything either. He is becoming a little bit of an underachiever, and that is what mostly concerns me. I know he's young, but I don't want him thinking that everything should come to him right away, and that if something is hard, he should just give up. I think there is a little of that going on as well. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else had a 5 yo who started out this way, and how did they come around, was is a natural progression that comes with maturity, was it a little bit of pushing from a parent, a little of both?

 

 

I'm not too concerned about kindergarten, a little discouraged that nothing I picked is working, maybe. :lol:

Edited October 13, 2011 by Runningmom80

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

At that age, you should be schooling on demand only. Answer his questions when he has a question, don't force-feed any curriculum to him. He's still a little boy. And he wants to learn his way. And he will. If you just answer him. So he wants multiplications? Show him. Don't whip out a book. Get M&Ms and show him groups of 3, groups of 4. Forget math facts for now. They will come through play.

[Tracy]

I'm realizing that his perfectionism isn't help anything either. He is becoming a little bit of an underachiever, and that is what mostly concerns me. I know he's young, but I don't want him thinking that everything should come to him right away, and that if something is hard, he should just give up. I think there is a little of that going on as well. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else had a 5 yo who started out this way, and how did they come around, was is a natural progression that comes with maturity, was it a little bit of pushing from a parent, a little of both?

 

You are right to be watching for underachieving symptoms, but I wouldn't label as such at this age. At 4yo, just because he can do something doesn't mean he should do it or even want to do it.

 

Both of my kids are perfectionists, and some of that does get overcome with age and competence in basics like writing and talking. You have to remember that sometimes when they are accelerated, they may actually be working at the furthest stretches of their competence. Sometimes, they exhaust themselves mentally, and we need to be willing to step back and give them the break that they need. There will be plenty of time to develop good work ethics and work habits as he matures.

[Runningmom80]

At that age, you should be schooling on demand only. Answer his questions when he has a question, don't force-feed any curriculum to him. He's still a little boy. And he wants to learn his way. And he will. If you just answer him. So he wants multiplications? Show him. Don't whip out a book. Get M&Ms and show him groups of 3, groups of 4. Forget math facts for now. They will come through play.

 

I'm not sure I explained myself very well, I've never force fed him curriculum, I'm not sure where you got that idea?

 

 

I'm not sitting him down for hours and drilling him with math facts, or anything. Most of what we were doing was finished within 30 minutes, and like i said, im perfectly fine with backing off for now. I'm looking ahead, 1st, 2nd, 3rd grade....

[MusicMama]

I'm realizing that his perfectionism isn't help anything either. He is becoming a little bit of an underachiever, and that is what mostly concerns me. I know he's young, but I don't want him thinking that everything should come to him right away, and that if something is hard, he should just give up. I think there is a little of that going on as well. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else had a 5 yo who started out this way, and how did they come around, was is a natural progression that comes with maturity, was it a little bit of pushing from a parent, a little of both?

 

As a perfectionist myself, I find that I don't value the process, only the product. So, if I can't accomplish something as well or as soon as I think I should, I want to drop it. Instead I should value the learning experience as I strive to learn something new and difficult! My 4yo Dd is the same way.

 

If you can create a chart where he gets a sticker for working 10 minutes on each subject, that could help him learn to find value in the process. My Dd breaks down if she doesn't get to put a sticker on her progress chart after one try at an AAS lesson. While I do not think that every effort is worthy of equal praise, at this tender stage, recognizing ANY effort can be crucial for a young perfectionist. I tell her that she made a valiant effort, completed good work, and we will try again tomorrow. Even with my positive words, she can be really hard on herself if she doesn't achieve her goal with her first try. I find this works for me. Instead of a monumetal "clean out the garage" :scared: on the chore list, I write "15 minutes in garage" and get to check it off everyday. That way, I feel proud of my effort/accomplishment two months before the task is completed, instead of a prison sentence of failure.

Edited October 13, 2011 by MusicMama

[Whereneverever]

I'm not sure I explained myself very well, I've never force fed him curriculum, I'm not sure where you got that idea?

 

 

I'm not sitting him down for hours and drilling him with math facts, or anything. Most of what we were doing was finished within 30 minutes, and like i said, im perfectly fine with backing off for now. I'm looking ahead, 1st, 2nd, 3rd grade....

 

Don't look too far ahead. Enjoy the kid that you have right now, in this moment. Worry about the future when it comes.

[quark]

--He hates handwriting, always has, this is nothing new.

 

He's a boy. So normal. Expect it to start improving around 8-ish. Shouldn't be worrying till then (says she who worried and worried and still worries LOL).

 

--Math, he is bored with. Singapore 1A. He doesn't know the number bonds, but wants to talk about multiplication all day. I read on the Hoagies site that HG+ kids sometimes need to learn concepts in a parallel progression instead of linearly. Um.....what? :lol::lol::lol::lol: I know what it means, but do I skip ahead and pray the arithmetic comes along? He gets the whole number bonds,and partsto a whole thing, he just doesn't know the facts, and wants nothing to do with drills or games. He will sometimes play math dice, I guess we can just keep doing that for a while.

I ordered LOF Apples, and he read the whole thing during a 2 hour car trip. (HE wanted to bring it, I had no idea he would actually read it. :001_huh: He doesn't want to go over itagain, he can tell me what happened in every chapter. I just ordered the rest, and I'll hold them hostage and read them with him this time. I'm not really sure where they fit into our curriculum, but, it can't hurt, right?

 

This sounds so much like my son that I could scream LOL. Oh my, have you cloned my kid? :lol:

 

OK, this is what happened to us too. All the living math books we'd checked out from the library were read before we reached home and he'd refuse to read them again. There was no need. He could remember everything. At the time we did some Kumon with the boy (please give me the benefit of the doubt with this). The Kumon was just to help him get his facts straight. We stopped the Kumon once he seemed to have a handle of facts. Next, we jumped straight away to fractions, played a bunch of number games using the whiteboard. The idea was not to drill facts. The 10 minutes of Kumon a day already took care of that. The idea was to help him indulge in his love of finding patterns and fractions is fun for pattern-finding. It worked wonders.

 

This is our math progression right now. Our son has never been a linear learner: Completed Fractions, Decimals and Key to Algebra by 7+, jumped to Brown/Dolciani Algebra at 8 and completed it before he turned 9, now at 9 working on AoPS Number Theory and Geometry in parallel fashion. Might spend a year after Geometry working on problem solving before moving on to Algebra 2. Or might take another detour if Geometry is too hard until he's ready for it again.

 

Things don't go the way you plan to with kids like these. The trick is to go with the flow and remember they are young yet. There's so much in math to learn and go into depth with that you need not worry about gaps and such, unless *YOU* are in a hurry. And it looks like you are not.

 

--spelling- AAS 1. So bored with it. The words have all been extremely easy for him. He had some phonograms to learn, especially the vowels, so I'm glad we started with level 1, but now we are at a stand off at step 15. Whining, complaining, carrying on. He hates writing, but now that the words are getting bigger, he needs to see the word as he spells it,or he gets it wrong. He won't use the tiles. I'm thinking I may just write the word for him to finish out the level. I started looking at Spelling Power, does anyone have any experience with this?

 

If AAS 1 is easy for him, that's telling you something. Not that he has discipline problems but that it. is. too. easy. for. him.

 

When my child was 6, I wrote to AAS' author because I was stumped. Her placement test for Level 1 was too easy for him. So she suggested we try Level 2. I felt it was necessary at the time because my kid was reversing vowels when spelling words like "mountain". But Level 2 was too easy too. Level 3. Too easy. Level 4. He completed the dictation passage used for placement into Level 4 with no mistakes. (There wasn't a Level 5 at the time) So I took that as a message and haven't used a spelling curriculum since. He doesn't need it. Yes he stumbles now and then, but nothing that a little visualizing and a 2 minute lesson on roots or suffixes won't solve. Perhaps yours is a natural speller too.

 

Part of the problem is laziness. He just doesn't *want* to do school.

 

Yes, because it's probably too easy. Or he's just being 5!

 

Yesterday he spent 20 minutes writing addition and multiplication equations on napkins. The answers weren't right, but I just let him go. :001_smile: I've also let him just sit and build things with the cuisinaire rods.

 

Beautiful! You have a kid who loves math. He won't do this unless he loves it. The challenge is to let this love grow, not stifle it.

 

Do I just cross that bridge when I get to it?

 

Yes!

 

I'm realizing that his perfectionism isn't help anything either. He is becoming a little bit of an underachiever, and that is what mostly concerns me. I know he's young, but I don't want him thinking that everything should come to him right away, and that if something is hard, he should just give up. I think there is a little of that going on as well. I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else had a 5 yo who started out this way, and how did they come around, was is a natural progression that comes with maturity, was it a little bit of pushing from a parent, a little of both?

 

A little bit of both. My formula is to let him give up some things if they really seem hard for now/ boring etc but persevere with others. I literally make him persevere with an equal number of things dropped. I don't know how else to balance this so I'm going with my gut instincts right now.

 

With boys especially, I've heard it's important to let it be natural. Believe me, they may not look like they are learning and focusing, but they are, especially if it's a subject they love. I've learned that lesson over and over again. Just when I think he's not applying himself, boom! He's made a mental leap of some sort. And I'm left in the dust.

 

You'll be fine. You have a very special young man there. Go with the flow! Stay flexible with him. And good luck! You don't want to lose that spark.

[SonshineLearner]

My thoughts are... Read Ma Liping's Book... (get the newest edition) So you'll know HOW to explain what to do... if you're using Singapore... you want to explain number bonds... and more! :) You want him to think of adding and subtracting the way Singapore explains it. (I was glad to have read this before I started explaining adding and subtracting to my son) And then.... teach him to work hard... at physical labor. Moving woodpiles with dad... scrubbing with you... etc. Working hard at physical labor transfers to school work, too. At least I think it does...

 

:)

[TCB]

What you describe sounds very normal for many kids that age. I don't think you need to worry yet that this is how it will be in the future. My youngest dd is very bright and capable but frequently resists things for a while. I have found that it seems to work best to back off, wait a while, and then try again. It's amazing how much easier it is when a little maturing has taken place. Things then seem almost effortless. Whatever else she resists, she is always reading, and I really think she has learned so much through simply reading widely.

[QueenieReighn]

Something that my dd enjoyed when math was boring was the game double shutter. You should check it out. All about addition (or subtraction if you think about it the other way). Good luck!

[boscopup]

You are right to be watching for underachieving symptoms, but I wouldn't label as such at this age. At 4yo, just because he can do something doesn't mean he should do it or even want to do it.

 

:iagree:Most 4 year olds, even gifted ones, want things to be easy. They aren't mature enough to be able to handle a real challenge. At that age, I could hand my son a K-level workbook from Sam's (the really big ones), and he'd have a great old time "doing school", but the minute I tried to TEACH something educational, his desire was gone. He didn't want to stretch his mind or have a challenge. He wanted to do something easy. Maturity wise, he was not ready for a challenge, even though his brain was capable of doing it.

 

Just have conversations with him and let him continue to do stuff on napkins. One day we got into negative numbers casually by him saying you can't subtract 7 from 3, or something like that. I just said, "Oh, yes you can. Here, let me show you." I got a blank piece of a paper, drew a number line, and showed him the negative numbers and how you can subtract 7 from 3 and end up with -4. He played with that himself for a bit, and I never assigned him any problems or did any workbook pages. He still to this day knows how to add/subtract negative numbers. We didn't do anything formal. This was just casual conversation with no practice involved, no planning, no formal teaching. He mentioned something, I corrected it and showed him the correct thing. He loved that! We had so many good van conversations about math at that age. It was fun. I really truly think doing a curriculum or anything formal would have stifled him. In fact, since we do a curriculum now, he doesn't have those van conversations anymore. I miss them. *sniff* (he does still add and subtract big numbers in a notebook during sermons at church, and one day he sat down to find all the prime numbers 1-100, so I know he's still playing with numbers ;) )

 

My middle son is about to turn 5. We are using curriculum because he asked to, but I'm going VERY slow with it, keeping it easy. If it is at all challenging, we will do just a couple problems. At this age though, it's all optional, and if he isn't in a mood to do school, he doesn't have to do school. I will require school next year, and in first grade, I'll require school and a little bit of challenge, gradually upping the challenge from there.

 

Academic work ethic isn't required in a 4 year old in order to develop it in a 6 year old, kwim? Develop his work ethic in other areas - like housework. Teach him to clean up his room and/or the play area on a daily basis. Have him empty the dishwasher, and do other cleaning tasks. My middle son asked to clean toilets one day. I showed him how! :D (ok, it was a cursory cleaning - just taking a Clorox wipe to the outside, but still... that is very much needed in a house full of boys!) Teaching your son to do work around the house is probably the BEST thing you can do right now - more important than academics. How many women complain that their DH's come home from work and sit in front of the TV or video games the rest of the evening and on the weekends? :tongue_smilie: (mine does not, btw... while he has a huge arcade game collection, he comes home and works outside or works on the cars if needed... I feel very blessed that he has the work ethic to go along with his intelligence. ;) His mom taught him to do housework and didn't worry about his academics. Now he's successful in a high tech field and has a great work ethic.)

[poetic license]

My middle son asked to clean toilets one day. I showed him how! :D (ok, it was a cursory cleaning - just taking a Clorox wipe to the outside, but still... that is very much needed in a house full of boys!)

 

OT, but LOL at that... :lol: I have just one boy (well 2 including DH) and this is sooo true. I think I'm gonna whip out the Clorox wipes for DS!

[Rosie]

I see a little bit of underachieving going on as well, I'd like advice on how to avoid this. I probably wasn't clear in my original post.

 

 

We struggle with perfectionism and underachieving here. Last year, with my oldest, I decided to make the focus of our year, "DO HARD THINGS!" I wrote it on the top of our white board and talked to her at the beginning of the school year about why it is important to do things that are challenging. She would throw fits if she actually had to think when doing schoolwork. Huge fits. It would generally take 30 minutes before we could get back to work because she'd either be off throwing a tantrum or I'd be cuddling her on the couch until she'd settled down. I kept telling myself that THIS was the most important thing I could do that year for school - help her to work through frustration at not being perfect and wanting to quit. This year is MUCH better. She still gets frustrated at times but she doesn't throw tantrums any more - just pouts for a minute. We still talk about doing hard things a lot.

 

Now I've added my 6 year old to the mix and she does the same thing her sister did last year, only she's a crier instead of a tantrum thrower. So, again, I'm focusing on helping her work through frustration. And I'm counting on her maturing in a year or two like her sister has.

 

One thing I'm starting to realize is that I may have caused some of the perfectionism and desire to not work hard. I've noticed that I tend to do things for my kids (help them get dressed, etc.) after the point where they can do it for themselves just because I've always done it and don't realize I should stop... or because it's quicker. I've done this in "thinking" areas, too; until recently, I've viewed the "answer" as more important than the thinking involved to get the answer. So I would help my child get an answer by giving her the very last mental step needed without actually giving her the answer and then she only needed to make a small leap to get it right. Now I'm really focusing on giving as little info as possible in order for her to spend time thinking through and making bigger mental jumps on her own. I don't know if that even makes sense. I'm still attempting to switch how I teach so I'm not fully clear on how to explain it.

 

For us, lots of love and tenderness while still expecting the child to think has been key. I do agree, though, that you don't need to worry much at this point because of his age. And focusing on chores is a great idea! I wish I would have done that more!

 

That's been our experience. Hope something in there helps you out!

[Runningmom80]

Thanks Rosie! It did help. :D

[Runningmom80]

Something that my dd enjoyed when math was boring was the game double shutter. You should check it out. All about addition (or subtraction if you think about it the other way). Good luck!

 

 

 

I'll look into this, I've never heard of it. thank you!

[Mommy22alyns]

Don't look too far ahead. Enjoy the kid that you have right now, in this moment. Worry about the future when it comes.

 

 

:iagree: I know how easy it is to barrel ahead, but take some time to slow down and enjoy him where he is right now.

[Nan in Mass]

You know, when mine were little, I found schoolish things to go better when they were strapped into their car seats GRIN. They were bored in the car and happy to talk to me and not distracted by wanting to move around. My youngest (the only one homeschooled from the beginning) learned to read well before he learned to write. He more or less taught himself. When he was 7, we began doing Spelling Workout and he got a nice review of phonics and covered the things he had skipped the first time around. I also waited on memorizing math facts. I was afraid that if mine memorized them too soon, they wouldn't really understand how to juggle numbers around. I waited to do any written work until my youngest was 7. He learned to write fast at that age. We began math with Primary Math 1B and he blew threw the books fast. At that point, writing numbers was not a problem and we avoided a lot of arguments. Before that, we did tons of math in the car for entertainment. I gave him long complicated word problems involving fractions and multiplication and division. He used me as scrap paper to remember in-between numbers in the calculations until he needed them again. Anyway, I just wanted to reassure you about school in the future. When mine turned 7, I made him begin sitting down with his brother in the morning and formally "doing school". By then he could write a little bit, draw fairly well, do lots of math, and read very well. He had been reading stacks of library books on his own and listening to books on tape and building things and doing puzzles. We avoided a whole lot of I-don't-like-school by waiting until he was older and it didn't cost him anything, time-wise. We did lots informally, orally in the car. Reading and writing are two different things and don't necessarily come at the same time.

Just in case this helps...

Nan

[SorrelZG]

*sighing regretfully* in response to reading boscopup's and Nan's posts.

 

I wish someone had informed me of this stuff years ago. :( I've been so confused about what I'm supposed to be doing but I've been learning a lot though of late around here.

 

I'm making changes.

 

Next week is a new week.

[catz]

There's a LOT of maturing that goes on between not-quite-5 and not-quite-6, especially with boys.

 

:iagree: Even in very gifted boys. My son went from Singapore 2A to pre-alg level in 2 years of homeschooling starting at age 7 (which is when we started homeschooling). He was playing with multiplication and fractions in his head as a preschooler. But was completely unwilling to jump through any hoops that looked like "school". I'd follow his lead for another year and see where you're at. He'll learn a ton if he's doing what he wants! I wouldn't sweat it at all.

 

I eventually started requiring drill practice on the computer for both my kids. My young 2nd grader just really started that in the last 6 months. Only 5-10 minutes a day.

Edited October 16, 2011 by kck

[lewelma]

For a 4 year old gifted child, I would just let him play, and have him do lots of mazes and dot to dots to increase his fine motor skill. Read to him a lot.

 

Age 5, teach him to read and start letter formation. Do all math orally on the fly. Especially estimation because it develops number sense, and oral word problems to develop problem solving. Read to him a lot.

 

Age 6 or 6.5. Add a math program and maybe a spelling program. Read to him a lot.

 

Gifted kids catch up so quickly. As long as you are willing to skip every other lesson and just fly at their speed. That early stuff is sooooo boring for gifted kids. Don't be afraid to skip it. My son started math at 6.5. He completed grades 2,4,5 in Singapore Math's Intensive Practice series in 2.5 years and started AoPS Intro Algebra at 9 (no prealgebra back then). Now, we have slowed down, and AoPS Algebra will take 2.5 years. Go at his speed! If it is easy, just skip it. If we had started at age 4, would he have learned faster? Not likely, but he might have become resistant.

 

There is absolutely no need to struggle with "work ethic" with a 4 year old. Teach him to have a good attitude for his chores, and it will slide over into his school work when he is older.

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited October 18, 2011 by lewelma