Piano for the K-er

[jillian]

So dd is 3.5 and we are looking into getting her a keyboard for her birthday or Christmas (her b-day is in December as well). We want to do music lessons but thinking the at home method is a little more cost effective to do it at home and if she takes off with it we will go onto outside the house lessons. What keyboard do you recommend for a kiddo her age (she will be 4 when we start) and what sort of teaching method do you recommend for parents who really don't know much at all about playing the piano

[Canadianmumof5]

We love the Music for Young Children program; especially when they are little.

 

http://www.myc.com/

 

Very gentle introduction and lots of fun. And parents go to the class with them, and participate. So you can learn right along with your child.

 

(no I don't have anything to do with them outside of having my own children enrolled)

[Guest submarines]

My 3 yo is loving Kinder Bach. I'm not sure how it compares to other programs or how good it is, but it is fun, and she's internalised quite a lot, while we purchased the download primarily for DS. There are a couple of free lessons on the site.

[Alte Veste Academy]

So dd is 3.5 and we are looking into getting her a keyboard for her birthday or Christmas (her b-day is in December as well). We want to do music lessons but thinking the at home method is a little more cost effective to do it at home and if she takes off with it we will go onto outside the house lessons. What keyboard do you recommend for a kiddo her age (she will be 4 when we start) and what sort of teaching method do you recommend for parents who really don't know much at all about playing the piano

 

I truly hate to be a Debbie Downer here but...

 

I had the same idea a few years ago. We got a nice keyboard and some beginning books (John Thompson's Easiest Piano Course, which is very good and they now have a complete set, if you end up going this way). DH plays guitar and always wanted to learn piano. I'm completely ignorant about music and always wanted to learn the piano. We both really wanted the kids to learn piano. He and I, at various times, have tried to engage the kids with lessons but really, if you don't know piano, you're like the blind leading the blind.

 

One of the best things I have ever done for my kids was to put them in piano lessons. Their teachers have years of experience playing and teaching. They are patient and, most importantly, capable of infusing joy! It's hard to infuse joy when you're second guessing your abilities every lesson. What I struggled to teach for weeks was easily learned in the first 30 minute lesson with a professional. Literally! :001_huh: :lol:

 

Language arts? Check. Math? Check? Science and history? Check. I have even been able to successfully teach Spanish. Music is one subject I finally admitted I was not capable of properly teaching my kids (although I will pat myself on the back and say I've done an excellent job of instilling a love of music :D). I am thrilled with their music lessons, as they are rapidly learning and excelling in a way they never could have with me teaching them.

 

I know you say you'll put your daughter in lessons if she takes off with it. My point is that without an inspired and capable teacher, she may not take off with it. My kids used our keyboard as a toy for years. They are finally using it properly. :tongue_smilie:

Edited October 11, 2011 by Alte Veste Academy

[QumaCote]

I taught piano for many years to other people's children, but I did not start teaching my own children at 3.5. Often the child does not have sufficiently developed motor skills to correctly play when they are that young. Also, if you are trying to use a more traditional piano book, the child may not be able to read well enough to use the book.

 

I put my children in http://kindermusik.com for about 3 years before they started piano. The first year of Kindermusik was more listening, moving, singing, etc to music. Then we did 2 years of the Young Child Program. This actually taught them (very slowly) to read the treble clef, understand some terms, note values, etc. They played some mallet instruments and developed their ear. I think other groups have similar programs, but I am not as familiar with them. My daughter started actual piano lessons at 5.5 years because she was very motivated and had great motor skills. (She was actually still in Kindermusik when she started piano.) My son was a little older because his motor skills weren't as strong.

 

I would definitely recommend visiting some different music programs to see which might be a great fit for your family. Obviously, I love music, and it is a big deal in our house.

 

Warmest regards,

[jillian]

I truly hate to be a Debbie Downer here but...

 

I had the same idea a few years ago. We got a nice keyboard and some beginning books (John Thompson's Easiest Piano Course, which is very good and they now have a complete set, if you end up going this way). DH plays guitar and always wanted to learn piano. I'm completely ignorant about music and always wanted to learn the piano. We both really wanted the kids to learn piano. He and I, at various times, have tried to engage the kids with lessons but really, if you don't know piano, you're like the blind leading the blind.

 

One of the best things I have ever done for my kids was to put them in piano lessons. Their teachers have years of experience playing and teaching. They are patient and, most importantly, capable of infusing joy! It's hard to infuse joy when you're second guessing your abilities every lesson. What I struggled to teach for weeks was easily learned in the first 30 minute lesson with a professional. Literally! :001_huh: :lol:

 

Language arts? Check. Math? Check? Science and history? Check. I have even been able to successfully teach Spanish. Music is one subject I finally admitted I was not capable of properly teaching my kids (although I will pat myself on the back and say I've done an excellent job of instilling a love of music :D). I am thrilled with their music lessons, as they are rapidly learning and excelling in a way they never could have with me teaching them.

 

I know you say you'll put your daughter in lessons if she takes off with it. My point is that without an inspired and capable teacher, she may not take off with it. My kids used our keyboard as a toy for years. They are finally using it properly. :tongue_smilie:

Those are great points.

[FairProspects]

:iagree:with waiting. Both dh and I play multiple instruments and my mother is a music teacher and I was so excited for the kids to get going on music lessons, but other than Suzuki (of which there are none in our area), all the teachers would not take young kids as students.

 

Ds started piano this year at 7 y.o. and I am so glad we waited! He loves it, and it is going so well because his fine motor skills are better coordinated and since he can read, the switch to reading music has been easy for him. He is also used to a bit of seatwork so he has no issues sitting down and practicing. It has been an all-around positive experience for everyone.

[chepyl]

I would also suggest finding a good music exploration type of program. Hold off on piano until 5 or 6. If you do get a keyboard, make sure they are full size, weighted keys. We have 76 keys at the studio for our beginning students and full 88 keys for the intermediate and advanced students. But they need to be true weight and size of a traditional piano.

[Hoggirl]

My ds started piano right after his 4th birthday. He did NOT do Suzuki but was taught with traditional methods. We started with two, 15-minutes lessons per week for about three months before moving on to a half hour lesson. FWIW, he was reading, though I personally learned to read music before I learned to read words. IMO, a concept that text moves from left to right is what is necessary. It is also good to know one's right hand from one's left. He is now 14 and an excellent pianist (SMP level 9 player). So, I am going to disagree that waiting is always best. I think it depends on the child. But, unless you are a musician yourself, I would seek out a teacher. He or she will be able to assess after a few lessons whether or not *your* child is too young. It is difficult to have great technique with such little hands, but that shouldn't be completely ignored either.

 

But, I disagree with blanket statements that one needs to be a certain age before beginning lessons.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Hoggirl

[Forget-Me-Not]

I've had two different teachers tell me they preferred the student be able to read before starting lessons.

[QumaCote]

I think Hoggirl makes some excellent points--some children can start young, and they will do fantastic. However, if the student is not reading yet, he/she cannot read what the assignment is to practice. The left-hand/right-hand thing is important also. If the student does not know right/left, you can color-code the hands. (Right is red, and you high-light the right-hand notes in red.) Starting at a young age requires the parent to be very involved with the student's practice. I had many parents promise to help with practice--even if it was to insure the child was working on the correct piece--however, most parents in reality did not work with the student every day. This generally causes great frustration. This is why I generally recommend the music exploration/slow moving groups for a young child. The parent does not need to work with the child for 30 minutes every day.

 

I also agree with Hoggirl's point about 2 shorter lessons per week for a young child. Again, the parent needs to be willing to make the drive. Some parents are absolutely willing to do that drive for a 15-minute lesson, and other parents are not willing. If you can find a teacher that works with young children and will do music exploration as part of the lesson, you could have a longer lesson.

 

I agree with the full-size keys and weighted keys for a keyboard, also. I don't want to discourage you. In fact I would love for you to find a great music class/piano teacher for your child. I wish all people had music in their lives!

 

Warmest regards,

[Bluegoat]

We love the Music for Young Children program; especially when they are little.

 

http://www.myc.com/

 

Very gentle introduction and lots of fun. And parents go to the class with them, and participate. So you can learn right along with your child.

 

(no I don't have anything to do with them outside of having my own children enrolled)

 

My daughter, 6, began this program last year, and we are very happy with it. Even at her level last year though, we noticed that a lot of the kids didn't seem to be really ready for it. They still really struggled with rythym and coordination, and while the program addresses those things as well, I've wondered if not all kids are really at 4 and 5. Given their results at the end of the year, they must have really struggled the whole year through to achieve what might have come easily a year later. I tend to be wary of that kind of teaching.

 

Their program for toddlers and pre-schoolers though is quite good I believe and doesn't include the piano.

[myfunnybunch]

We started my son in lessons at age 4. It was a good decision for him; he just "gets" the piano instinctively, and has from the moment he sat down at the piano. He was SO ready, and he thrived.

 

We started his brother at the same age. It was a disaster. He also has a talent for music, and had *excellent* fine motor skills, but he hated piano. He stopped playing and has just now taken up guitar at age 8.

 

I started my 6 y.o. this year. He's progressing more quickly than the oldest did when he started, and he loves piano. But he doesn't have that same instinctive understanding, so waiting a couple years was a great decision for him because the wait allowed him to develop his fine motor skills, his ear (we did musical activties and a spring children's choir) and his ability to absorb instruction.

 

My point (finally): Readiness really depends on the child.

 

I agree about getting a teacher. If you're not ready for a teacher, for whatever reason, I think it's a great idea to enroll in a general music program like Kindermusik, or to find a Suzuki program that's geared more toward pre-piano instruction. I have voice experience and play guitar, but I could not have taught my boys to play piano *properly*. Good piano instruction teaches proper technique from the beginning so that it's a habit.

 

And....to the original question. My .02: If you absolutely intend for piano instruction to be a part of your home and school life, invest in a decent acoustic piano. If you're not sure, but if you want your child to try piano lessons for a few years, you might buy a relatively less expensive keyboard (ETA: Yes, ITA with full-size and with weighted keys!) to play right now, then see if you want to buy a better piano later if she becomes more involved. And if you're not entirely sure yet, invest in some music classes and see where they take you. :)

 

And, just for playing around, my 6 y.o. is enjoying doing Alfred's Music for Little Mozarts series on his own in addition to his regular piano lessons.

 

Cat

Edited October 11, 2011 by myfunnybunch

[SKL]

My girls started "formal" piano lessons at 4.5. They are doing fine - not progressing super fast, but adding one or two notes per week. For now, I am presiding over their practices, but I am gradually backing off.

 

They are using the Edna Mae Burnam Step-by-Step program. They are taking lessons through a program called "Music for Life." The same organization has taught their general daycare music class for the past year, and they also attended an individualized course last year (could have skipped that, probably). They did a semester of Kindermuzik when they were 2, but I wasn't thrilled with it - it was not a fit for my kids.

 

As for readiness - both of my kids love music and have memorized entire musicals. My younger can read, which does make things easier for her. However, my eldest does fine without being able to read. She can follow the notes from left to right and up and down the staff. She has vision issues, so I was actually pleasantly surprised to see this.

 

I do know how to play the piano, but I think the girls do better with formal lessons, because they are more motivating. Each day they are working toward impressing Miss D- so that she will assign them more advanced songs at the next lesson. Plus, there probably is a benefit to the teacher having experience with little learners. (I did teach my kid sister at 4, but she was an odd case - never wiggly, etc.) Anyhoo, I think that any time you can add another knowledgeable person to the equation, there are benefits.

[Guest submarines]

I agree about individual readiness. My very typical, not overly musical and non-reading 3 yo is loving largely exploratory Kinder Bach, where she gets to find "Doddy's house" and "Train Station" between the black keys. Certainly informal, low key, and gets her introduced to the keyboard layout, rhythm, high/ low and so one. None of my kids could have actually taken lessons at this age, not even until 5 or 6. My best friends' daughters started taking formal lessons at 4, and are now quite accomplished.

[duckens]

Which keyboard?

 

We have a Casio LK-100. We are very happy with it for what it does now.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Casio-Lighted-Keyboard-Premium-Accessories/dp/B000KVRQ60

 

Advantages:

--We bought it for $100 from Target; the price was right.

--A keyboard fits in our house (rather than a piano).

--Dd4 does not need a full size keyboard.

--If we need to upgrade, we can justify it because we only paid $100 for this one.

--Keys that light up.

 

Disadvantages:

--There is no "piano"or "forte" for this keyboard. It doesn't matter how hard or soft dd plays the keys, they all sound the same volume (as per adjustment by the volume control). Dd understands the difference between piano and forte, but she cannot put it into practice on this keyboard. If you want this as a feature, you will have to pay more.

Can young children learn to play the piano?

I think it depends upon the child.

 

Dd started at age 4 with overpriced group lessons at the downtown music center.

Advantages:

She wanted to go because she had "friends" (classmates) there.

The teacher was incredibly knowledgeable, and VERY good with little kids.

 

Disadvantages:

--$14 for a 45minutes GROUP lesson in Iowa. This is NOT NYC!

--Not a single classmate had a piano or keyboard in their home, so dd was the only one arriving at class prepared to move on to the next lesson.

--Teacher was not well prepared.

 

We tried a summer of overpriced ($20/lesson) private lessons, but, again, the teacher was always late, etc.

 

So now I teach dd at home. She can play 29 songs. She will be 5 in December.

 

We are using:

 

My First Piano Adventures

http://pianoadventures.com/myfirst/materials.html

 

We use the Lesson Book A, the Writing Book A, and I just added the Christmas Book A.

 

You also need to know:

1) I set a timer for 15 minutes and "practice" with dd every day. Some of this time is games. Some of this time is playing songs we have done in the past. When I feel she has mastered a song, we move on to the next one. We are usually working on several songs at the same time. At this age, you probably need to commit to sitting with her daily for practice.

2) Dd gets paid 25c/day for practicing piano. It started out as, "Hey, if I'm paying $xx for lessons, paying her a quarter to practice so we get the most out of lessons is a drop in the bucket!" We have continued this even with me teaching her.

[MitziFL]

There's already lots of good advice, so I don't want to repeat anything. But one thing I want to mention: do not get a keyboard and if you get one, make sure it has weighed keys--Yamaha and Roland make them, or else even look for a used upright or someth. Our son started piano lessons at 4 years of age, he has a Russian teacher, who is pretty traditional. We have a lesson once a week and practice every day.:001_smile:

[Guest submarines]

I think another good question to ask is what are your goals for your child, and / or what are the child's goals. If your goal is to be a concert classical pianist, then, in my unprofessional opinion, starting on cheap keyboard might not be a great idea. You wouldn't want bad habits to become ingrained. If, on the other hand, your goal is for your child to simply be able to play and enjoy the piano, then I don't think the type of keyboard matters so much.

 

But that's my guess. I'd love to hear more on this, from those who are the pros.

[jillian]

I think another good question to ask is what are your goals for your child, and / or what are the child's goals. If your goal is to be a concert classical pianist, then, in my unprofessional opinion, starting on cheap keyboard might not be a great idea. You wouldn't want bad habits to become ingrained. If, on the other hand, your goal is for your child to simply be able to play and enjoy the piano, then I don't think the type of keyboard matters so much.

 

But that's my guess. I'd love to hear more on this, from those who are the pros.

At this point we just want to introduce her to a musical instrument that she has expressed interest in. My MIL and SIL both have pianos/keyboards and she LOVES to play around and press different keys on them. We do have room for a piano in the house but honestly the investment in a piano if she isn't going to want to continue would be difficult to justify in cost. We want her to experience the joy of playing a musical instrument and have a basic working knowledge of how to play and the notes/read music.

 

If she desires to play a different instrument later on then that's wonderful and we will embrace that. Also, if she decides she really enjoys the piano and wants to take classes/lessons then we are able to accommodate that as well. We both feel that musical lessons (singing/voice, violin, piano, etc) are part of a well-rounded education.

[Parker Martin]

If you put the word out that you're in the market for a good, used piano, someone may just give one to you to get it out of their house. That's what happened to us. We only had to pay moving costs.

 

A lot of people have sentimental attachments to their pianos but need to get rid of them. They are often happy to give their pianos away to people they know well who they feel will provide good homes.

[Hoggirl]

Starting at a young age requires the parent to be very involved with the student's practice. I had many parents promise to help with practice--even if it was to insure the child was working on the correct piece--however, most parents in reality did not work with the student every day.

 

Totally agree. I sat down with my ds every time he practiced when he was little. It definitely helped that I was a musician myself.

 

The challenge for me later on was "letting go" so that ds had "ownership" of his music. Old habits die hard, and I found it difficult to pull back when I needed to - though ds certainly let me know! :D Now my only job is to periodically check his memory and be his cheerleader.

[Terabith]

My daughter is doing Musikgarten's Group Piano class, which I am VERY happy with. It's a three year program, but it's a capstone to their early childhood program, which she went through prior to it. However, their piano program doesn't generally start till age six, but the early childhood program is exceptional and includes beginning music reading and tonal/ rhythm patterns, learning about composers, instruments of orchestra, and learning about various countries, Indian tribes, and ecosystems.

 

However, I still sit down and supervise/ help out with Anna's piano practice, and she is almost 8. I can't imagine not being involved in her practice for awhile, to be honest.

[jillian]

Dd is my only and unless something drastic changes with our infertility she will be the only for awhile