Talk me down! I want to send them to school.

[Paige]

My 2nd graders are killing me. I know they are learning...a little. They are better than they were last year by far. Still...they seem to not get anything. I get blank stares all day long. I tell them exactly how to do something and where to find the answer, and they will do something totally different 2 seconds later. Then, they cry about it because they "don't know what to do." It leaves me flabbergasted. How could you not know what to do when I just told you? I'll say, for instance- this is a subtraction..and they do addition, then cry because they got it wrong. Or I'll say, these are the definitions for your words, they cry and say 2 minutes later, "We don't know where the definitions are!" :confused: I don't think I can take it much longer. Is this normal behavior? I feel I am not reaching them at all. They promise they are listening and can repeat what I said back to me. I don't get it. I think maybe they are the type that will pay attention better to someone else. They were happy in school but I thought the teachers had no idea that they were falling behind and lost so I pulled them out. Now, I still feel like they are falling behind and lost, and I'm frustrated. I don't want to send them back to school, but I'm afraid I'm doing them a disservice if they are truly not responding to me. My other 2 kids, 1 older and 1 younger, are not like this. They follow along with my directions and don't cry so easily. Would you keep them home or send them back? I am committed to finishing the year out, but I'm seriously thinking of enrolling them next year in the school down the road and letting someone else try.

[Agamemnonsmom]

I get the blank stare (& not listening) too with my first grader sometimes. Usually when we've been at it for a while and he needs a break. I find what helps is asking him "is this addition or subtraction?" so he'll have to think before doing it. If I just tell him, in one ear and out the other. But whenever I think he doesn't pay enough attention to what I'm saying, I realize he'd pay even LESS attention in school where the teacher can't sit and force him along. Hang in there!

[OK Family]

My 2nd graders are killing me. I know they are learning...a little. They are better than they were last year by far. Still...they seem to not get anything. I get blank stares all day long. I tell them exactly how to do something and where to find the answer, and they will do something totally different 2 seconds later. Then, they cry about it because they "don't know what to do." It leaves me flabbergasted. How could you not know what to do when I just told you? I'll say, for instance- this is a subtraction..and they do addition, then cry because they got it wrong. Or I'll say, these are the definitions for your words, they cry and say 2 minutes later, "We don't know where the definitions are!" :confused: I don't think I can take it much longer. Is this normal behavior? I feel I am not reaching them at all. They promise they are listening and can repeat what I said back to me. I don't get it. I think maybe they are the type that will pay attention better to someone else. They were happy in school but I thought the teachers had no idea that they were falling behind and lost so I pulled them out. Now, I still feel like they are falling behind and lost, and I'm frustrated. I don't want to send them back to school, but I'm afraid I'm doing them a disservice if they are truly not responding to me. My other 2 kids, 1 older and 1 younger, are not like this. They follow along with my directions and don't cry so easily. Would you keep them home or send them back? I am committed to finishing the year out, but I'm seriously thinking of enrolling them next year in the school down the road and letting someone else try.

 

 

First of all you need a big hug :grouphug:. I know I get frustrated with my third grader. He has trouble staying on task. I have to sit by him constantly to have him continue working. First what kind of work are you doing with them. I doubt definitions are really necessary. I go over words with my son, but haven't really made him look up too many. This year for reading we are doing comprehension questions along with our book. It has been real tedious, but I believe he will catch on. He reads aloud the chapter, then he reads the question and if he can't answer I help him look up the answer and help him write it. Some days go better than others and I don't expect to do all the books and questions together, just until he gets the hang of it. I would look at what you are having them do and take it slow. Its only second grade, it should be a big review of first grade.

I know you will get a lot of good advice here. Don't give up, it sounds like you would like to keep them home, just need to find what works for all of you.

[zenjenn]

I suspect two possible explanations:

 

1) Developmentally inappropriate instruction/curriculum

 

2) Learning disabilities

 

I tell them exactly how to do something and where to find the answer.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about "where to find the answer". The average early-year second grader cannot independently reference materials. They might be able to reference something very simple like a single sheet or a quick word list of a few pages stapled together to keep track of commonly-used words. But if you are expecting them to reference back to things in a notebook or to use a dictionary independently (even a children's dictionary), I do not think that should be expected of a 2nd grader.

 

It leaves me flabbergasted. How could you not know what to do when I just told you?

 

It IS often necessary to explain things to 2nd graders several times. And for it to be effective, the instructor cannot be "flabbergasted" or emotional. I'm curious what math curriculum you are using? Math is an emotional subject in may homeschooling homes, I've found. Talking to folks both on this forum and IRL, the two math programs that appear to eliminate the *crying* and *frustration* are CLE and Teaching Textbooks.

 

It is possible your children have learning disabilities as well, which is an entirely different issue.

 

Should you send them to school? Only if:

 

A) You as a parent/teacher do not have the patience to instruct them at their developmental level

 

B) You do not feel equipped to deal with any learning disabilities they have

 

(In the case of B, though, it is a bit of a crapshoot as to whether the school will address their needs or not. Some schools/teachers are EXCELLENT in these situations, others can be downright shameful.)

Edited September 20, 2011 by zenjenn

[LittleIzumi]

I have to break all instruction into 20-30 min chunks tops. They just can't pay attention that long. 2nd grade is also, IMO, too young to be expected to do anything really independent. 3rd grade seems to be when they are mature enough to do some schoolwork without hand-holding. Like, if you give them subtraction, you have to sit with them & watch. I have to remind dd a lot--yes, 6+4 is 10, but that says 6-4. What is 6-4?

[Superfly]

They sound very similar to my 2nd grader. My DD is ADHD though. She can't seem to follow even the most simple instructions, even for things she wants to do(like play minecraft). She also isn't able to do her work unless I literally stare at her page as she does it and intervene as soon as she starts to do the problems incorrectly. I notice she will self-correct if I'm looking at her work, but if I even move to the other end of the table to help her sister, then she will do the whole page wrong. Or she will just stare into space. So here are some things that have helped us:

 

1. Jumping jacks before we start, or if DD starts to loose attention

2. ball seat - the bouncing makes me insane, but it does help her get her work done

3. ask lots of questions to make sure they understand or have them recite the instructions - this may take several repetitions

4. cut down on things that promote short attention. We got rid of regular tv with all the commercials and only watch videos now. We also try to monitor how "hyper" the shows are they watch during the school week.

5. cut out as many environmental distractions as possible like other siblings or running appliances/electronics. I have DD face away from the window otherwise I will lose her everytime a car drives by or the wind blows.

6. Take breaks often and have them do something physical during those breaks.

7. Try making activities more kinestetic if you think that my be their learning style. I put up a whiteboard at DD's height and have her do much of her math and copywork while standing at the board.

 

Many times I have thought about sending DD back to school, but I think school would have her falling even further behind. It is just completely opposite of how she learns. So my advice would be to not give up. Keep trying to "figure" them out and discover how they learn. In our case, it turned our DD needed reading glasses for tracking issues as well. Keep trying different curriculum if you think that may be the problem. Try not to show them when you are upset (I know it's hard!!! I'm guilty of blowing a few gaskets). Some kids feed off our reactions to them. I used to teach in-home preschool and have found that accross the board, most children's behavior gets worse when they get a rise. I hope this helps. Good luck!

 

:grouphug:

[kristinannie]

We all have frustrating days...and sometimes weeks...and hopefully not months... Take a deep breath and relax. Maybe you can get a little time to yourself and take a bath or go for a walk or something to clear your head. A friend of mine suggested that I write a letter to myself about why I am homeschooling. What are my goals and what are the reasons I homeschool? That way, when I am having a bad stretch, I can pull out that letter and remember why I homeschool. If the things in your letter change and it is better to send them to school, then that is a decision you can make.

 

I would love to know more about what you are doing for school, how long it lasts, etc. Some days, like today, DS5 will sit still for quite awhile and really get some work done. Some days, like yesterday, school is just a disaster and we hardly do anything. That is normal and our kids are young enough that it isn't a complete waste. If one day is not going well, just go to the park or do something else. Of course, that can't happen all the time, but sometimes we all just need a break.

 

Can you do something else for awhile that might be more fun for your kids. Maybe you could spend a month and do a unit study or do something like SL that uses living books and will interest them. Like I said, I have no idea what you are doing.

 

Honestly, I think early elementary should be fun. Of course, they need to learn math and to read, but why can't they learn to love learning as well at that age? Try using manipulatives with math. That has made a huge difference in my house. C-rods are great for addition and subtraction. Maybe they just don't understand the symbols as well as you think they do. That is a hard concept to get. A + and a - look very similar.

 

I am a very impatient person by nature. I have decided that God is using homeschooling to rid me of that vice very slowly... It takes a lot of patience when teaching at home. I do think that your children will eventually thrive at home since you can work harder to keep them on task and you can do it in love instead of as a job like at PS. I think it is OK to question your choice and it is OK to send your kids to PS. I think you just really need some quiet time to clear you mind and to write the letter of why you homeschool and then you can make a better decision. I try not to make lifechanging decisions when I am frustrated. A clearer head will give you a better decision. I'll send some prayers your way.....

[Stellalarella]

They are better than they were last year by far. Still...they seem to not get anything.

 

Are you saying this because you have been at my house today working with my second grader?

 

:grouphug:

 

I listened to an audio lecture by SWB about moving students toward independence. This audio lecture helped me lots. She also has another great lecture, "Homeschooling the Real Child." Here is the link to them both.

 

Yesterday, I asked her to start our school time with prayer. Why am I forgetting to ask for help from God???

Today, when the attitude issues started after I very kindly asked her to go over one of her incorrect math problems, I just stopped and told her that even more than I want her to learn -math-, I want her to learn that it is not OK to throw fits, give up, whine, etc. when she is faced with a learning challenge.

 

But practically speaking, here is the biggest help I got from these WTM boards about the "blank stare" and "crying" we get from math (well, actually, just whatever.)

 

I find that I need to patiently and cheerfully demonstrate the problems for this particular child. She needs 2-3 times more modeling demonstrations than any of my other kids. If she feels insecure about her ability to do a problem, then her brain just shuts down. Nothing shuts down logical thinking abilities as fast as fear.

 

As SWB says, I may feel like I am being "nibbled to death by ducks," but we are making progress. It sounds like you, too, are even admitting that you are making progress, it just doesn't feel like it.

:grouphug:

[Hedgehogs4]

Our best instruction at this age comes from reading out loud A LOT, talking about the meaning of words, and doing copywork that includes the vocabulary discussed, math that has simple pages without a lot of clutter, and manipulatives. I have to resist the urge to expect them to be little students like when I played school as a girl, or to be the kind of student that I was, who did everything perfectly and filled in my sheets, got my stars, and all my pages were hung on the wall because I had the best handwriting. My kids just aren't that way. I agree with the PP who said that perhaps the activities and or instructions may not be developmentally appropriate. If you look at the things that your kids love best to do and shape instruction to them around those things, you will be able to better reach them. Kids do what they do because they are self-teaching...we just need to tune in to that and make our teaching work for their brains.

[MerryAtHope]

(((Hugs))) I too wonder if the curriculum is not a good fit (either the level or the learning style) or if there might be some learning disabilities going on (kids can be very bright and still have learning disabilities). My kids at this age didn't work independently. There was no telling them & then leaving them to do it. For math, I would explain, and then we would work several together, then they would do one with me watching, and then I might be able to leave them to do the rest while I stayed in the room and folded laundry or something. Sometimes I sat with them the whole time. Sometimes, if they were especially frustrated, we took turns writing the answers (they would tell me & I would scribe for them).

 

And, I wouldn't be able to just say, "these are subtraction problems." I'd have to ask if they remembered what that meant. I might have to make examples of some of the problems--if it said 6-2 = ?, I'd say, "Let's pretend I have 6 cookies, and YOU eat 2 of them!" (they loved math problems that involved them eating my food). "How many cookies do I have left?"

 

As for definitions--that would have never happened here, even if the definitions were on the same page of something they were doing. I would have to go over everything together, and do some of it with them again. Maybe the whole page. Is this a workbook or worksheet that had this? It could be that the page looks visually confusing to them, or that the print size is overwhelming, or that reading is still hard work for them, or they are distracted by the dog...

 

Hang in there! Merry :-)

[Evergreen Academy]

Oh dear, it can be so frustrating, can't it! I feel your pain, I have a few like this. I asked about this sort of thing at a Charlotte Mason Study group, and the suggestion I received is that either: one, the student is being lazy and needs more habit training; or two, the materials are developmentally or otherwise inappropriate for the child, or a combination of the two.

 

There is also the element of the newness of all of this - be gentle with yourself as you all adjust and perhaps lower your expectations at first? It is a learning curve and you will all learn together what works best as you go along - I am still learning after 10 years of doing this; they are all different and they keep changing!

 

Math is tough - watch for the dawdling, complaining and carrying on and be willing to work on habit training there. Take a deep breath, I know how it is! Break up math into two sessions if need be, but try not to let them sit at it for any longer than 20 minutes at a time - for any lesson, at this age, for that matter.

 

Most of mine couldn't give me a definition at that age, but what I am looking for are ideas they are forming and connections they are making. If the books are "living books," real books that tell a story the child can connect with, rather than textbooks or those packed with dead facts, the child has a better chance of interacting with it. Instead of asking for definitions, ask them what they noticed about the story; what they remember. They may make the same observations you do; they may make different ones, and over time they will have a lot of knowledge they have come to own, rather than definitions they've memorized and then forgotten.

 

Read carefully chosen books together, perhaps some about the time period you're studying, (look at the Sonlight catalog or Ambleside Online) and let them enjoy; bake cookies, choose poetry to read together from a volume. Take nature walks and look at what's happening in your neighborhood; get some books out of the library about what interests them.

 

You CAN do this! Please feel free to share here what you are using with them; I'm sure you will get excellent input on things that might help.

[mhaddon]

I haven't read all the replies, but I wanted to say I posted this same thing last week on our local homeschool yahoo group. I was so lucky to get many wonderful replies- many that have really helped. So yes, I was about a minute from loading up the first grader last week and am so happy I didn't. First of all take tomorrow off. I did and it gave me a day to just be free. It was nice. Is he perfect a week later? No, but he is a little boy and well- he never will be lol. I took that day to write down why I am homeschooling and posted it in a visible place. I talked to DH about why we were doing this, he was a huge encouragement. I asked DS if we could drop anything what it would be- he told me the abacus because it didn't help and he couldn't understand it. We are switching math to something he can understand. I shortened our lessons and added breaks throughout the day. I don't feel bad doing a subject at 7pm... because if it works for you that is fine. I think so many times I look online at "perfect" scheduals with families finishing at noon- not us. If he is antsy and I want to get through one more thing we do jumping jacks, together. Or something physical. I do it until he colapses on the floor. If he just isn't paying attention we stop and try again later. No TV on in the house at all until we are done with the two biggies- math and LA. If we aren't finished until evening it is off. I have a few computer games (educational ones) as a reward. I also realized I was expecting him to take my instructions and work while I was doing something else. I stay nearby for help and he's actually been asking for more help. I want him to be independent, but I also want him to know he can and should ask questions. And we did stop one thing that was getting difficult for him, we will retry in a week.

[Critterfixer]

These are your little girls, right? I remember that you have written about them before, and that they are very sensitive children. (Actually, I think most children have sensitive spirits, but some of them don't let it show.)

You are not going to get anywhere by letting your frustration show. Let me tell you from personal experience, one raised eyebrow is enough to send a sensitive child on an emotional spiral.

Remember that there is a reason children like to hear the same stories over and over and over again. They need repetition to internalize everything. That doesn't mean drill, but it means that they take different things from each repetition. Come at something from too many angles too quickly and you end up frustrating the child.

 

It is sometimes tempting to "show them where to find the answer" at this age, but that actually defeats the purpose of learning. Better to show them the ways you go about finding the answer in a one-on-one fashion. But don't go off and leave them to their own devices once you've done that. They might be capable of walking across a busy road because you've told them to look both ways, but at that age we still hold hands.

[jennsmile]

:grouphug:

 

We do sonlight, lots or reading and oral answers. We limit seat work to HWOT, and a math worksheet. It works for my active boys. There would be no way I could tell my boys to look up a defintion and write it down. It would illicit tears too.

[boscopup]

My 2nd graders are killing me. I know they are learning...a little. They are better than they were last year by far. Still...they seem to not get anything. I get blank stares all day long. I tell them exactly how to do something and where to find the answer, and they will do something totally different 2 seconds later.

 

My 2nd grader is sometimes like this. It's usually when he's frustrated with something or upset for whatever reason. :grouphug:

 

I'll say, for instance- this is a subtraction..and they do addition, then cry because they got it wrong.

Instead of telling them what it is, try asking them what it is. Have them figure it out, but you're still there to guide them and point it out to them that it's different. Asking questions works a lot better here than just telling.

 

And definitely stay right there to walk them through things. No independent stuff yet!

 

Or I'll say, these are the definitions for your words, they cry and say 2 minutes later, "We don't know where the definitions are!" :confused:

I think my 2nd grader would melt down if I had him doing definitions for words, especially if he had to write them. Thankfully, none of his curriculum has him doing anything definition-related at this age.

 

If the blank stares are happening all day long, I'd definitely make sure your curriculum is appropriate for them, developmentally. It needs to be at the right level and be expecting things they are developmentally capable of doing now (whether other 2nd graders can do it or not - YOUR kids are the ones that matter right now). It's entirely possible that there is an LD involved, and I'd certainly get them evaluated if you suspect there might be something there.

 

You pulled them out because they were falling behind in school. Did you figure out WHY they were falling behind in school? If that part wasn't solved, I wouldn't expect anything to change even if they're at home. If the school/teacher was the problem, then I'd expect a change. But if it's an LD of some sort, I wouldn't expect a change until that gets addressed.

[woolybear]

You might want to consider if your second graders have different learning styles from your other dc. They may be more visual, kinesthetic, or something else. Therefor, both the approach and even the instructions may need to be presented differently.

[TeachingTwins]

Your post sounds very similar to what has been happening at my house. I'm teaching boy/girl twins in 2nd grade. I get that blank stare a lot from my son.

 

Lately, I've been experimenting with a lot of different things, and it has been improving. I give them more breaks, tell them to yell "wiggle" if they need a one minute break to move around. I am changing their math curriculum because I think they need more manipulatives. I started separating them when they start giggling and fooling around, then go from one to the other to help each one separately. I don't let things escalate, and tell my son to go to his room, and come back when he's ready to do his work instead of staring into space and not doing what I ask (ie, tasks I know he understands how to do). If he doesn't come back by the time my dd is done with the subject, he has to do it after school when my dd is now done, and playing. This usually changes his attitude because he doesn't want to miss playtime.

 

They are just not ready to do anything much independently, so I am pretty much teaching or guiding them during all our school time.

 

I'm not sure of any of these ideas will help you, but I can understand your frustration. I started making some changes after I threatened public school every single day for a week.

[readinmom]

It's tough being a parent, let alone their teacher. Don't give up! Your children are in second grade and it's not a race to the finish. Model the behavior and expectations you have for the assignment. The first few weeks of school I have my students practice just the procedures, not the actual assignment. The repetition is the key.

 

Don't be too hard on yourself. Something made you choose this path. Give them a chance to grow and learn...:001_smile:

[Crimson Wife]

Do they have any of the symptoms of an auditory processing disorder?

[Guest lahmeh]

I suspect maybe auditory processing disorder as well. I didn't even know what that was until my son started showing little signs a couple of years ago. Reading your post made my eyes tear up. I was imagining your little ones crying during lessons because they are probably trying very hard to do the right thing only to see mommy get frustrated with them.

 

I would ABSOLUTELY not send them to ps. If it is in fact auditory processing disorder and a teacher got frustrated with my dc (and maybe yelled at them) I would come unglued! 7 is still so young. Maybe you could read up on it and/or get them tested in a year or so. I hope you figure it out. Hugs to you.....:grouphug: and your dc.....:grouphug: