College...please tell me I'm not alone here...

[LittleIzumi]

Dh & I both grew up in a pay-your-way type house. We'll help if we can, but I think it will be maybe the first year's tuition if they need that, and then it's on them. We'll help them apply for scholarships & such too, of course.

[2squared]

The only difference I saw in college was that the kids who had to work 20 hrs. per week or even more, were very poor students. It wasn't that they didn't work hard, it was that the job and all of the schoolwork overwhelmed them, or the boss would call and demand that they fill in at the last second and they had to skip class or an important lab, etc. Many of the kids I went to school with who had to work more than say 10 hrs. per week eventually dropped out. I think they would have probably been great students if they could have just concentrated on school.

 

I didn't know any music majors, so I have no idea what their lives looked like. I do know what I saw from the other majors, though. The students who had to work for pay were the ones who didn't have time to join frats and party and the ones who didn't have the cash to fund partying behavior. The more challenging majors generally had students who studied more and partied less.

 

I was in both groups, and I had to focus on my schooling and income generation. I was able to graduate with a good GPA, a great job, and $1000 in debt. It worked out well for me.

 

What I do wish was the my parents had funded experiences which I couldn't/wouldn't fund. Things like studying abroad for a semester, educational trips during spring break, or housing for summer internships.

[Alice]

I voted other also because of the idea of "entitled".

 

My parents didn't have the money to help at all and that was very clear to me in high school. While I understood that, it also put a fair amount of stress on me to win a scholarship, go into debt or work my way through. I knew I wanted to be a doctor and would have debt from that so I hoped to not have debt in college. I was fortunate enough to have a full scholarship to college (paid for everything even books and supplies for things like art classes). I could have worked, and did for extra spending money (although my scholarship also had a monthly stipend) but it was really a burden lifted to know I didn't have to and I would have no debt. I chose a very expensive medical school (I'm not sure I'd make that same choice today but that's another discussion) and had a lot of debt after that but it wasn't compounded by college debt.

 

Because of our experiences, it has been important to us to save for college for all our kids. We are fortunate to be able to do that. I'd like to enable them to not have to pay and to be able to work at being in college primarily or to take jobs that are more like internships than just for the money. But I don't think they are entitled to it and circumstances could be such that we would choose not to pay. I would also tell them if they get a scholarship then the money can go to paying for graduate or professional school.

 

I do know that we are fortunate to be able to save. We have many friends who are not able to and I don't think they are less loving or caring parents because of that.

[Susan in TN]

But, I have a jaded perspective. It's basically impossible to go to school and work and be in music performance. We needed 132 credits to graduate and a minimum of 4 hrs. per day practice. Most of the time the music majors carried 18-21 credit hours per semester which is a total of 54-63 hrs. of class/homework (depending on how efficient you were but I can tell you there is virtually no way to compose a three part-invention in the style of Bach, rapidly) plus the 4 hrs. per day of practice based on a seven day work week...yes, unless we barfed up a lung and had ex-rays to prove it or a parent showed up with a death certificate, one didn't get away with a day off on the weekend. That's 28 hrs. which brings us to a total of 82-91 hrs. per week. If one sleeps even a little, I'm not certain where a job would happen in there. Just possibly this is why so many of my fellow musicians adopted substance abuse to get by. :001_huh:

 

No wonder I don't recommend anyone major in music performance!

 

Still, I know there are a lot of majors like that...the kinds of majors that are excruciatingly time intensive and I wonder how kids manage jobs.

 

Faith

 

I was a violin performance major, but I had related jobs - teaching violin lessons, playing in the local symphony, and teaching assistant (my primary job was orchestra librarian and helping the professor grade tests.)

 

But part of the reason so much of my college was paid through scholarships is because the music dept. was second only to athletics in scholarship money. I think that's true of most schools.

 

A regular (outside school) job really would have been impossible. You're pretty lucky if you manage to graduate in 4 years - especially with a Music Ed. degree.

[FaithManor]

I was a violin performance major, but I had related jobs - teaching violin lessons, playing in the local symphony, and teaching assistant (my primary job was orchestra librarian and helping the professor grade tests.)

 

But part of the reason so much of my college was paid through scholarships is because the music dept. was second only to athletics in scholarship money. I think that's true of most schools.

 

A regular (outside school) job really would have been impossible. You're pretty lucky if you manage to graduate in 4 years - especially with a Music Ed. degree.

 

 

I managed the piano performance and philosophy majors in 4 years (I probably didn't make that clear in my first post as I was attempting to triple major on top of everything else - type A personality overachiever of the day!) The music ed was finished after graduation. The student teaching would have probably made me suicidal :D my senior year on top of the senior recital and the research project due for honors in my major. Since I have three majors, sometimes when I'm typing, I inadvertently type the title of the wrong one when I'm referring to another.

 

I saw some equally oppressive pressure on the art majors as well. Some of the seniors looked like they'd been run through a wood-chipper by the time they survived their senior gallery showing - the absolute worst verbal abuse I've ever seen was "lavished" on a guy who was so incredibly talented that it was shocking that the professors had anything to offer him. He was humble too, a very nice young man. He was totally shredded in front of about 20 people. It was considered "normal". Knowing what I went through and what they went through, it's just hard for me to imagine the pressures of a job too.

 

I note that you mentioned students for pay. Your school must have had a different philosophy than mine. At ours, we had to teach a minimum 7 piano students per semester and up to 15 for NO PAY. It was considered part of our education and we paid the school for 2 credit hours practicum too boot for that opportunity. We were drummed out of school if we attempted to get students outside of the college for pay. That was considered competition for the school's community music program.

 

T.A.'s were given $200.00 off their school bill per semester if they managed to persevere under the duress. They were treated like rented mules and very few music professors could keep a t.a.

 

Very mean school. I survived and did get a stellar education. But, many years hence, I'm not convinced that anyone else should put themselves through it. Truly, I'm glad your experience was more forgiving and positive.

 

Faith

[akmommy]

I voted no, but probably should have said other. I would love to help them If we can, but it's just not possible at the moment. Our oldest earned a scholars award from our state university system and has taken a minimum amount of loan money to cover the rest.

 

My hope is that the other two will continue to work hard earn some scholarship monies, too. We can't afford to go into thousands of dollars in debt help them and I hope they can avoid taking much loan money themselves.

[Renaissance Mom]

I voted "other" as we plan to help with up to 50% of the cost of a state university. Should anyone want to go to a more expensive or private school, our $ amount contribution stays the same and they'll have to shoulder a bigger burden.

 

Both dh and I put ourselves through college 100%. We realize that costs are proportionately much higher so we want to help but still put the responsibility on their shoulders.

[momtotkbb]

I too voted other because of the idea of "entitled". Both dh and I came from families that paid for our college expenses. We feel fortunate that we have been able to make investments and savings that are earmarked only for our dc's college expenses. We do plan for them to receive merit-based scholarships and expect them to work to achieve the grades needed. But, we also understand that sometimes those first semesters of college aren't necessarily as easy as one might think and that some dc might be missing skills to organize their readings, time, etc.

[ScoutTN]

I voted other because we will help as we can, but that will certainly not amount to a free ride. We expect our kids to work and to be diligent and resourceful in seeking grants, scholarships etc. (No loans!) and to choose a school with costs in mind.

My mom may leave our kids some money for college.

 

We do not think they are entitled to have someone else pay for their college education.

 

I worked throughout school, both undergrad and graduate school, and my experience was a good one.

[Susan in TN]

I managed the piano performance and philosophy majors in 4 years (I probably didn't make that clear in my first post as I was attempting to triple major on top of everything else - type A personality overachiever of the day!) The music ed was finished after graduation. The student teaching would have probably made me suicidal :D my senior year on top of the senior recital and the research project due for honors in my major. Since I have three majors, sometimes when I'm typing, I inadvertently type the title of the wrong one when I'm referring to another.

 

I saw some equally oppressive pressure on the art majors as well. Some of the seniors looked like they'd been run through a wood-chipper by the time they survived their senior gallery showing - the absolute worst verbal abuse I've ever seen was "lavished" on a guy who was so incredibly talented that it was shocking that the professors had anything to offer him. He was humble too, a very nice young man. He was totally shredded in front of about 20 people. It was considered "normal". Knowing what I went through and what they went through, it's just hard for me to imagine the pressures of a job too.

 

I note that you mentioned students for pay. Your school must have had a different philosophy than mine. At ours, we had to teach a minimum 7 piano students per semester and up to 15 for NO PAY. It was considered part of our education and we paid the school for 2 credit hours practicum too boot for that opportunity. We were drummed out of school if we attempted to get students outside of the college for pay. That was considered competition for the school's community music program.

 

T.A.'s were given $200.00 off their school bill per semester if they managed to persevere under the duress. They were treated like rented mules and very few music professors could keep a t.a.

 

Very mean school. I survived and did get a stellar education. But, many years hence, I'm not convinced that anyone else should put themselves through it. Truly, I'm glad your experience was more forgiving and positive.

 

Faith

 

Wow.

 

I will keep these things in mind - my oldest may be looking into majoring in music and better to know what to look for in advance...

[missmoe]

I voted other. My kids are not entitled to college. It is a privildge.

 

My kids will have to apply for scholarships, grants, financial aid, and work, but we will make up the difference. It is something we have promised our kids from the start.