Both of my hands ache--what are some reasons why? Going to dr tomorrow

[Harriet Vane]

Both of my hands have been aching for a couple months now. There is stiffness and swelling in both thumb joints, and pain throughout the tops of my hands along the small bones and in my knuckles. It was worse when we were moving (packing, lifting boxes, etc.). Both hands ache when I type. Both hands ache when I squeeze my fingers into a fist. I find it hard to unscrew lids or lift a full teapot. They also ache when I'm not doing anything. The left hand seems worse, but both hands ache.

 

I am heading to the dr tomorrow (rheumatologist) and want to be prepared. What are the possibilities? What should I ask/expect?

 

Thanks.

[Familyties]

Your post interests me because I am having the same issues right now. My thumb joints are the worst, especially the right one. It is swollen and constantly sore around the knuckle. My other knuckles are slightly sore as well. It hurts to really use my hands. I can't even hold a pencil the right way because my thumb hurts to bad. Good luck tomorrow at the doctor and please update us with any info.

[Harriet Vane]

Your post interests me because I am having the same issues right now. My thumb joints are the worst, especially the right one. It is swollen and constantly sore around the knuckle. My other knuckles are slightly sore as well. It hurts to really use my hands. I can't even hold a pencil the right way because my thumb hurts to bad. Good luck tomorrow at the doctor and please update us with any info.

 

Definitely.

 

I saw another post about rheumatoid arthritis and googled out of curiosity. I wish I hadn't. I'm kind of alarmed.

 

Anyone else have thoughts to offer?

[justamouse]

OK, I have a weird thing to share about that. And I'd never heard it before.

 

IN the last few years, when my Mom eats anything from the nightshade family, she can barely move her hands for the next few days. Of course, it took her a while to catch on because tomatoes were in season. I told her she was nuts, but she's been at this for a while and apparently my aunt is the same way, so, could it be something crazy like that?

 

Me, who is eating all the tomatoes she can while this isn't a problem yet. :D

 

ETA, she gets that way with MSG, too (but so do I-swollen, can't move them)

[black_midori]

I was thinking rheumatoid arthritis as well - sounds a lot like my MIL (80yo) and her hand problems...

[ChristusG]

My hands/fingers ached when my thyroid went out of whack after DD#2 was born. After my thyroid got back to normal, so did my hands. Come to think of it, my feet ached too.

[girligirlmom]

I used to have that! Stiff hands, worse on the left side, numbness and tingling. I believe it is related to gut dysbiosis plus an overgrowth of Candida.

 

I finally went on the GAPS diet after pondering about whether I wanted to for almost a year. Now that stiffness, numbness and tingling went away. I think it's diet related and can be healed. GAPS diet means no sugar, no grains, no starches, but real food and real healing.

 

I also believe rheumatoid arthritis can be healed by the GAPS diet.

 

gaps.me

 

I plan to start the Candida reducing part of GAPS next week.

[Misty]

I agree with the diet connection. RA is an autoimmune condition with an inflammatory component. This sort of thing always starts in the gut! Gluten is a common culprit for arthritis. Candida (yeast) is usually right there in the thick of it as well, causing all sorts of issues, triggering autoimmune conditions, etc.. My joint pain and muscle pain went away when I went gluten free and treated for yeast.

 

ETA: BTW, your doctor will look at you like you have ten heads if you mention this to him. Most mainstream doctors are slow to learn this stuff and will just give you a bandaid (pills), treating the symptoms only.. A naturopath can actually HEAL this for you by treating you from a whole body perspective. This is where mainstream medicine fails us.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Misty

[sbgrace]

:grouphug:

I had something similar to that when I had a severe vitamin D deficiency. I think I read at the time that there is likely a link between low vitamin D and rheumatoid arthritis. That would make sense given vitamin D levels seem protective with auto-immune issues. The effect though was protective. At any rate, I was helped by getting my D levels in the 50's. That may have been coincidental or something but I wanted to mention it in case you don't know your level or you know it's low. You can supplement safely without knowing your level as long as you use a D3 form and stay under 10,000 IU per day. I'd dose high (like 10,000 six days a week) if you don't know your level. Most people are low and no matter the underlying issue healthy D levels will likely help. ETA: I just googled and saw a study here that indicated those with RA and lower D levels were less likely to be in remission or responding to treatment. FWIW, the test you want is 25(OH) D. Some doctors still order the wrong tests. Lab slips often call a level of 20 or 30 normal (as does this study) but those are low. Levels of 40 are sub-optimal. Levels of 50 and above are normal. The Vitamin D council website has tons of good information about levels, safety, testing, benefits, and more.

Edited September 14, 2011 by sbgrace

[Shawna in Texas]

My hands/fingers ached when my thyroid went out of whack after DD#2 was born. After my thyroid got back to normal, so did my hands. Come to think of it, my feet ached too.

 

I never thought about it being a thyroid issue. I usually get carpal tunnel pretty bad when I'm pregnant, so I just thought it was related to that. Once I stopped nursing, the pain gradually went away. I blamed it on wrestling an infant/toddler and hefting the girls in and out of my top every few hours to nurse. At one point the pain was so bad I recall thinking that I knew exactly what kind of arthritis I was going to get when I'm older. My grandfather has it in his hands as well (but he's 87). My pain was pretty much as the OP described. The only time it bothers me now is when I'm rearranging bookshelves (the real kind), or cooking a really large meal.

[jplain]

Agreeing with many previous posts, that all of these are possibilities: vitamin D, B12, thyroid, autoimmune disease. I'll add to the list post-viral arthritis, and maybe Lyme disease if you live in an area where it is an issue.

 

Expect a physical exam followed by an order for labwork. I'd ask for all of the above to be tested, including all the relevant antibodies.

 

For 2 years I've had what we think may be post-viral arthritis, because none of my bloodwork is off. It's lasted longer than post-viral arthritis should, but my rheum says that can happen. She also says that maybe something is brewing but not yet diagnosable. It causes pain in my knuckles mostly, sometimes toe knuckles too. I don't have swelling, but I do have some knuckle redness. At this point it seems to be at bay, and I rarely feel pain. The last time it happened it might have been gluten (a restaurant put noodles in the soup I ordered gluten free).

 

I went gluten free and low carb for other reasons, but I think that helped ease the pain a lot. I also started a regimen of supplements, including vitamin D, B12, fish oil, and Xyflamend. My rheum was supportive of this, though she hadn't suggested it. I'm not sure how much the Xyflamend helped, but I definitely think the fish oil was useful. I've not yet done GAPS, but I will consider it if my pain flares up significantly.

 

I agree with the general dietary suggestions on this blog, though I think other approaches can also be effective: Cooling Inflammation. (Not sure I agree with the idea that sucrose is much better than HFCS though, unless he's talking about the commerically-used kind that is more than 50% fructose. But it doesn't matter; I minimize both.)

Edited September 14, 2011 by jplain

[Liza Lee]

Arthritis.

 

It doesn't have to be rheumatoid arthritis. I have it and started having joint pain when I was in my mid-30s. I eventually went to a rheumatologist and got tested and was told that it is osteoarthritis.

 

I agree with the PPs who said that arthritis can be exacerbated by your diet. Once I learned that I am gluten intolerant and quit eating it, my symptoms decreased tremendously.

[Country Mouse]

OK, I have a weird thing to share about that. And I'd never heard it before.

 

IN the last few years, when my Mom eats anything from the nightshade family, she can barely move her hands for the next few days. Of course, it took her a while to catch on because tomatoes were in season. I told her she was nuts, but she's been at this for a while and apparently my aunt is the same way, so, could it be something crazy like that?

 

Me, who is eating all the tomatoes she can while this isn't a problem yet. :D

 

ETA, she gets that way with MSG, too (but so do I-swollen, can't move them)

 

:iagree:

My mom had terrible joint pain when she was in her 30's, she went to the rheumatologist who diagnosed rheumatoid arthritis. When my mom cut out all nightshade plants (peppers, tomatoes, potatoes, etc.) from her diet she had no more pain. She has to be very careful (even paprika in mayonnaise or potato starch in bread can set off her joints), but when she avoids those items she has no pain or swelling.

 

In my case, I experienced joint pain in my hands and feet earlier this summer as a result of mono. My dr. said about 20% of mono patients experience joint pain. Just another possibility to add to the list :tongue_smilie:

 

 

Best of luck in finding a diagnosis and relief. :grouphug:

Edited September 14, 2011 by Country Mouse

[elegantlion]

I would consider carpal tunnel as well. My dh has this and it flares up when he does certain types of jobs (construction). Moving would qualify.

 

Have you changed what you type on recently? I had some issues when I switched to a netbook and was doing a lot of typing. Are you starting an exercise program? I read a thread here about hand swelling when starting to exercise.

[Thia]

I'm another Vitamin D case. I went to the dr and he firmly believes my pain is caused from my deficiency. I've only been taking extra D for a couple of weeks, so I haven't seen any results yet, but I am hopeful.

[Mary in VA]

Hormones. When I hit menopause all my joints ached, particularly my hands. Once I started HRT that went away.

 

Mary

 

P.S. I don't want to debate HRT, everyone needs to make a decision on their own with their medical provider. :001_smile:

[Tammyla]

:grouphug: :grouphug::grouphug:

[jplain]

Hormones. When I hit menopause all my joints ached, particularly my hands.

Yeah, I suspect hormones are involved for me too, as my joint pain and other lovely perimenopause-type symptoms all began during the same year. My joint pain has always been loosely cycle-related, frequently flaring up around ovulation or the onset of menses. My rheum said that's not uncommon.

[Harriet Vane]

Thanks everyone for all the helpful replies. My internet was down all day so I was not able to post.

 

X-rays showed garden variety osteoarthritis. I was actually relieved to hear it, as I had worked myself into quite a tizzy over the possibility of rheumatoid arthritis.

 

Now to decide what to do.

 

--I love nightshade veggies and don't want to live without them.

 

--I love fresh, homemade bread and don't want to go gluten-free. However, my sister has full-blown severe celiac. The rheumatologist today suggested that even though I do not experience the gastrointestinal distress that my sister does, going gluten-free might help.

 

--I am low on vitamin D. Yes I'll start supplementing.

 

--Arthritis is apparently my Achilles foot, as I also have it in my spine. I don't have arthritis in my knees but do have arthritis-like symptoms due to patella misalignment. The best thing I can do for myself is exercise, but I don't wanna. :tongue_smilie:

[KristinaBreece]

Thanks everyone for all the helpful replies. My internet was down all day so I was not able to post.

 

X-rays showed garden variety osteoarthritis. I was actually relieved to hear it, as I had worked myself into quite a tizzy over the possibility of rheumatoid arthritis.

 

Now to decide what to do.

 

--I love nightshade veggies and don't want to live without them.

 

--I love fresh, homemade bread and don't want to go gluten-free. However, my sister has full-blown severe celiac. The rheumatologist today suggested that even though I do not experience the gastrointestinal distress that my sister does, going gluten-free might help.

 

--I am low on vitamin D. Yes I'll start supplementing.

 

--Arthritis is apparently my Achilles foot, as I also have it in my spine. I don't have arthritis in my knees but do have arthritis-like symptoms due to patella misalignment. The best thing I can do for myself is exercise, but I don't wanna. :tongue_smilie:

 

No advice, but :grouphug:. I'm so glad it's not rheumatoid arthritis. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I remember seeing my grandma crying when I was a little girl (and when I was older-- but it was a much bigger deal when I was 8, KWIM?) because she couldn't stand the pain from lifting her hands to brush her hair.

[Misty]

--I love fresh, homemade bread and don't want to go gluten-free. However, my sister has full-blown severe celiac. The rheumatologist today suggested that even though I do not experience the gastrointestinal distress that my sister does, going gluten-free might help.

 

Glad you are getting answers. If your sister has celiac then you most definitely have some level of gluten sensitivity. It's possible that you have the gene for it, but it hasn't been "triggered" like your sister's has. It takes a traumatic event (childbirth, car accident, stress, infection, etc.) to trigger a celiac gene. You would still be considered "non-celiac gluten intolerant" though, which is evident by the degeneration of your bone health. I have celiac disease and I never had a single bowel issue before going GF. My gene was triggered with the birth of my first child. I had crazy physical symptoms (rashes, joint and muscle pain, headaches, fatigue, malabsorption of nutrients and fats, underweight, anxiety disorder, etc.) but no bowel symptoms.. Celiac and gluten intolerance in general is VERY sneaky and difficult to diagnose.

[Liza Lee]

Glad you are getting answers. If your sister has celiac then you most definitely have some level of gluten sensitivity. It's possible that you have the gene for it, but it hasn't been "triggered" like your sister's has. It takes a traumatic event (childbirth, car accident, stress, infection, etc.) to trigger a celiac gene. You would still be considered "non-celiac gluten intolerant" though, which is evident by the degeneration of your bone health. I have celiac disease and I never had a single bowel issue before going GF. My gene was triggered with the birth of my first child. I had crazy physical symptoms (rashes, joint and muscle pain, headaches, fatigue, malabsorption of nutrients and fats, underweight, anxiety disorder, etc.) but no bowel symptoms.. Celiac and gluten intolerance in general is VERY sneaky and difficult to diagnose.

 

:iagree:

 

I was never diagnosed with Celiac, but quit doing gluten to see if it would help any of my symptoms. My joint pain decreased significantly within a few days. I've been gluten free for about 18 months now and feel like a different person.

 

I understand about bread. I still dream about eating good bread. But I feel so much better that I'm happy to live without normal bread.

[jplain]

This'll sound a little bit like nagging. Because it is. :D

 

I understand the reluctance to go GF. It took me more than a year of considering it before I was motivated enough.

 

However, having read the research on family members of celiacs, if I had a parent, sibling, or child with celiac, I'd have gone GF much sooner. Have you been screened for celiac disease before? Many doctors now believe that immediate family members of celiacs should be screened by blood test every 5-10 years, as the disease can pop up at any time.

 

I'll also emphasize that you can have celiac disease with ZERO gastrointestinal symptoms. And if you have undiagnosed/untreated celiac disease, you're at risk of developing a lot of other, much more serious problems (GI cancers, osteoporosis, other autoimmune diseases, including type I diabetes). For that reason, you may want to talk your primary care physician into ordering the celiac panel of blood tests. However, even a negative celiac screen doesn't mean you don't have a problem with gluten. See this article from CNN.com a few months ago: Will a gluten-free diet improve your health?

So, do you like nightshades and gluten more than you like being without pain? Are you suggesting that you couldn't live without bread and nightshades for a few weeks? That those few weeks wouldn't be worth living? I doubt it. ;)

 

I think you should give it a serious try: several weeks of complete elimination of gluten and nightshades, followed by sequential reintroduction. And go whole hog with that reintroduction, because sometimes the most obvious results come from the reintroduction. You don't need to buy special gluten free products to do this; just eat things that are naturally gluten-free: meats, eggs, dairy, vegetables, fruits, nuts, rice. If it doesn't make a difference, fine, go back to eating them with gusto. But what do you really have to lose? Are potatoes and bread so important that you can't give them up even for a few weeks? (If you're getting a celiac screen, wait for the results. If you screen positive, see a gastroenterologist before trialing gluten free. But you can do a trial nightshade elimination immediately.)

 

For what it's worth, you can make GF bread at home from a mix or from scratch, and there are even some truly decent commercially available GF breads. So don't let bread be the deal-breaker until you've given the GF options a fair shake. (But there are also some awful ones, so you might want to ask for suggestions.)

 

Personally the only things I miss are stuffed pastas: DePuma makes fantastic GF ones, and I convinced our local health food store to carry them for my once a month indulgence. I suppose I do miss chocolate croissants too. But I wouldn't be eating them much anyway, because I'm committed to eating low carb 95% of the time.

 

Low carb is another approach to consider, as many find it helps with osteoarthritis symptoms.

Edited September 15, 2011 by jplain

[Liza Lee]

This'll sound a little bit like nagging. Because it is. :D

 

I understand the reluctance to go GF. It took me more than a year of considering it before I was motivated enough.

 

However, having read the research on family members of celiacs, if I had a parent, sibling, or child with celiac, I'd have gone GF much sooner. Have you been screened for celiac disease before? Many doctors now believe that immediate family members of celiacs should be screened by blood test every 5-10 years, as the disease can pop up at any time.

 

I'll also emphasize that you can have celiac disease with ZERO gastrointestinal symptoms. And if you have undiagnosed/untreated celiac disease, you're at risk of developing a lot of other, much more serious problems (GI cancers, osteoporosis, other autoimmune diseases, including type I diabetes). For that reason, you may want to talk your primary care physician into ordering the celiac panel of blood tests. However, even a negative celiac screen doesn't mean you don't have a problem with gluten. See this article from CNN.com a few months ago: Will a gluten-free diet improve your health?

So, do you like nightshades and gluten more than you like being without pain? Are you suggesting that you couldn't live without bread and nightshades for a few weeks? That those few weeks wouldn't be worth living? I doubt it. ;)

 

I think you should give it a serious try: several weeks of complete elimination of gluten and nightshades, followed by sequential reintroduction. And go whole hog with that reintroduction, because sometimes the most obvious results come from the reintroduction. You don't need to buy special gluten free products to do this; just eat things that are naturally gluten-free: meats, eggs, dairy, vegetables, fruits, nuts, rice. If it doesn't make a difference, fine, go back to eating them with gusto. But what do you really have to lose? Are potatoes and bread so important that you can't give them up even for a few weeks? (If you're getting a celiac screen, wait for the results. If you screen positive, see a gastroenterologist before trialing gluten free. But you can do a trial nightshade elimination immediately.)

 

For what it's worth, you can make GF bread at home from a mix or from scratch, and there are even some truly decent commercially available GF breads. So don't let bread be the deal-breaker until you've given the GF options a fair shake. (But there are also some awful ones, so you might want to ask for suggestions.)

 

Personally the only things I miss are stuffed pastas: DePuma makes fantastic GF ones, and I convinced our local health food store to carry them for my once a month indulgence. I suppose I do miss chocolate croissants too. But I wouldn't be eating them much anyway, because I'm committed to eating low carb 95% of the time.

 

Low carb is another approach to consider, as many find it helps with osteoarthritis symptoms.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Harriet Vane]

It's true that I would rather not be in pain. I'm going to have to do this because it's better not to be in pain.

 

Having said that, I just feel sad about gluten-free. I already did it. I was really, really sick a year ago with a MASSIVE candida infection. I was on meds for a month and did a draconian no-sugar, low-carb diet for eight months. I was totally gluten-free in addition to other things. As I added back in some of those forbidden foods at the end of eight months, it was both a very shaky time and a very exciting time. Shaky because I was afraid I would be sick again, and exciting because I DIDN'T get sick. Since my sister has celiac, I was especially concerned about wheat and added that back into my life last. Having NO gastrointestinal issues was such a gift! I have been really, really enjoying my toast ever since. Just the other day I had an onion-cheese-focaccia muffin, and it was delicious.

 

I feel sad about trying gluten-free again and honestly kind of hope that doing so will have no effect on my health. It's just easier to eat whatever I want.

[Orthodox6]

Osteoarthritis is a bum deal, so I'm not making light of it. Sorry you have that dx.

 

The good news is that you do NOT have RA, Fibromyalgia, or any of the other conditions which also were possibilities.

[jplain]

Candida, huh? Have you read about leaky gut?

 

I feel sad about trying gluten-free again and honestly kind of hope that doing so will have no effect on my health. It's just easier to eat whatever I want.

You're right. It really is so much easier. Eating out is ridiculously difficult. Social events can be awkward and stressful. Your feelings are completely justified. It is reasonable to grieve.

 

On the upside, not eating out as much helps our budget. I enjoy it much more now that it's an infrequent occurrence. Having a stash of emergency food makes socializing easier.

 

Because my (then) nursing daughter had multiple food intolerances, I was on and off GF for a while before I went whole hog. When I did, I was going grain-free at the same time. DH is a type II diabetic, and after reading Dr. Bernstein's book, we realized he'd probably do much better on a very low carb diet. I chose to adopt the same diet to support him, and because I suspected it might benefit me too.

 

Oddly enough, going grain-free made it easier to go gluten-free. Wheat was just one of a list of things I was making off limits, so it was somehow less tempting. For me, another key was focusing on what I could have instead of what I couldn't have. I do better not having a lot of substitute foods around. My daughter, on the other hand, is a much happier kiddo if I buy her a GF cookie or donut once in a while.

 

This post I wrote in another thread might be useful to you, with links to anecdotal reports from people who've gone wheat-free despite no known celiac disease: link.

Edited September 15, 2011 by jplain