Video Game Design as a major?

[rjand6more]

Anyone have a child who is studying/plans to study in this field? Ds is passionate about it and I want to help him pursue it but I don't know how. What schools should we be looking at? What kind of high school work, etc would help him? Is this a marketable talent/education?

 

I have no clue. And I would really appreciate some guidance. Thank you.

[JenneinCA]

Have you looked at zulama.com ?

 

We have not done more than look, but it did seem interesting. My ds10 is interested in game design and this seemed like a good place to start.

[MamaSheep]

I don't know a lot about it, but I know someone who teaches at a place called Full Sail (or something like that?) in Florida. I asked her about it once for a friend and what she said was that it was a really hard field to break into right now and there are a LOT more people wanting to work in that field than the market can support, so if (the other person I asked for) had another interest that was a close second she recommended going with that. Otherwise, know the competition will be stiff and it will be helpful to know as much math as you can stuff into your brain, as well as things like good verbal and written communication skills, good story structure, and so forth.

[rjand6more]

Have you looked at zulama.com ?

 

We have not done more than look, but it did seem interesting. My ds10 is interested in game design and this seemed like a good place to start.

 

 

Thank you. I will look.

[rjand6more]

I don't know a lot about it, but I know someone who teaches at a place called Full Sail (or something like that?) in Florida. I asked her about it once for a friend and what she said was that it was a really hard field to break into right now and there are a LOT more people wanting to work in that field than the market can support, so if (the other person I asked for) had another interest that was a close second she recommended going with that. Otherwise, know the competition will be stiff and it will be helpful to know as much math as you can stuff into your brain, as well as things like good verbal and written communication skills, good story structure, and so forth.

 

Very good info. Thank you. He hates, hates, hates math!!:001_smile: This might really change his mind! The other things he is great at.

[Lori D.]

Here's an article to get you started: "How To Prepare for a Career in Video Game Design" = http://www.collegecrunch.org/jobs/how-to-prepare-for-a-career-in-video-game-design/

For more detailed info, check out the Bureau of Labor's Occupational Outlook Handbook online; here is an article on video game design.

 

Here is a nice list of resources for "do-it-yourself-right-now" creating video games and software: http://familyinternet.about.com/od/resources/tp/programmingforkids.htm

 

 

Our son is thinking of heading in this direction. Our local community college has a 2-year degree in this ("Digital Arts: Video Game Simulation"). And yes, it requires several higher math courses (College Algebra, Math for Game Design, Precalculus), several courses in learning computer programming (both C+ and Java), and a number of courses in specific visual software programs (Maya; Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, and After Effects.). There are a number of lower-end jobs all over the place looking for people who know how to use these software programs, so I am hoping once he's starts learning those, it can lead to some part time work, and then eventually he'll figure out what career area he really *does* want to go into.

 

While the video gaming industry may be glutted right now, there IS a rise in demand for workers in the related field of video simulations (used in science, courtrooms, businesses, education, etc.) -- I read an article some months back that projected the increase in that job area in the next ten years to be about 15%.

 

 

Places to look for training and degree programs:

- local community colleges

- ITT Tech = http://itt-tech.edu/teach/list/degd.cfm

- Technical and Vocational Schools = http://www.technical-vocational-schools.com/

 

BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Lori D.

[Joules]

A premier school for video game design is Digipen. They have online summer camps in addition to onsite ones. It's expensive as a college choice, but you'll likely find some good resources on their website.

 

A good book for learning is The Game Maker's Apprentice by Jacob Habgood. It uses a simple game engine to teach programming and game design. If he's already doing some programming, consider Java and, possibly AP Computer Science. There are many books for learning Java at the bookstore. I'm using this curriculum in the class I'm teaching this year.

[kiana]

I don't know a lot about it, but I know someone who teaches at a place called Full Sail (or something like that?) in Florida. I asked her about it once for a friend and what she said was that it was a really hard field to break into right now and there are a LOT more people wanting to work in that field than the market can support, so if (the other person I asked for) had another interest that was a close second she recommended going with that. Otherwise, know the competition will be stiff and it will be helpful to know as much math as you can stuff into your brain, as well as things like good verbal and written communication skills, good story structure, and so forth.

 

MamaSheep is 100% right. I asked SO (he's in computers) about this a while ago, so I'll duplicate his response.

 

As well as the competition being stiff, the pay stinks and the hours are tremendously long, because if you don't want to work long hours for very low pay, there are 100 more who will.

 

Also, according to him, the first year of his computer science degree (in the UK) was just full of people who wanted to do video game design and were bombing out because they couldn't handle the mathematics, but just loved to play video games.

 

There's nothing wrong with following your dream -- but I wouldn't do video game design as a major, but rather computer science, with coursework both in video game design and in something more marketable. If he IS serious about this, he needs to make sure he's working very hard in math, and doing as much programming as he can. There is a surprising amount of math involved.

[angela in ohio]

Also, according to him, the first year of his computer science degree (in the UK) was just full of people who wanted to do video game design and were bombing out because they couldn't handle the mathematics, but just loved to play video games.

 

This has been my experience in my computer science courses. The first year of classes were full of people who thought they should go into CS because they liked FB and video games. The reason they fail is a lack of math and (mostly) logic skills.

 

So my recommendation would be as much math as possible and a good logic course or two.

[rjand6more]

Here's an article to get you started: "How To Prepare for a Career in Video Game Design" = http://www.collegecrunch.org/jobs/how-to-prepare-for-a-career-in-video-game-design/

For more detailed info, check out the Bureau of Labor's Occupational Outlook Handbook online; here is an article on video game design.

 

Here is a nice list of resources for "do-it-yourself-right-now" creating video games and software: http://familyinternet.about.com/od/resources/tp/programmingforkids.htm

 

 

Our son is thinking of heading in this direction. Our local community college has a 2-year degree in this ("Digital Arts: Video Game Simulation"). And yes, it requires several higher math courses (College Algebra, Math for Game Design, Precalculus), several courses in learning computer programming (both C+ and Java), and a number of courses in specific visual software programs (Maya; Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, and After Effects.). There are a number of lower-end jobs all over the place looking for people who know how to use these software programs, so I am hoping once he's starts learning those, it can lead to some part time work, and then eventually he'll figure out what career area he really *does* want to go into.

 

While the video gaming industry may be glutted right now, there IS a rise in demand for workers in the related field of video simulations (used in science, courtrooms, businesses, education, etc.) -- I read an article some months back that projected the increase in that job area in the next ten years to be about 15%.

 

 

Places to look for training and degree programs:

- local community colleges

- ITT Tech = http://itt-tech.edu/teach/list/degd.cfm

- Technical and Vocational Schools = http://www.technical-vocational-schools.com/

 

BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Thanks! I will check out the links. You are a sweet mommy for having all this info for him! Thanks for sharing it!

[rjand6more]

A premier school for video game design is Digipen. They have online summer camps in addition to onsite ones. It's expensive as a college choice, but you'll likely find some good resources on their website.

 

A good book for learning is The Game Maker's Apprentice by Jacob Habgood. It uses a simple game engine to teach programming and game design. If he's already doing some programming, consider Java and, possibly AP Computer Science. There are many books for learning Java at the bookstore. I'm using this curriculum in the class I'm teaching this year.

 

 

We are planning on using Game Maker's Apprentice. Wish I could send him to your class!

[rjand6more]

MamaSheep is 100% right. I asked SO (he's in computers) about this a while ago, so I'll duplicate his response.

 

As well as the competition being stiff, the pay stinks and the hours are tremendously long, because if you don't want to work long hours for very low pay, there are 100 more who will.

 

Also, according to him, the first year of his computer science degree (in the UK) was just full of people who wanted to do video game design and were bombing out because they couldn't handle the mathematics, but just loved to play video games.

 

There's nothing wrong with following your dream -- but I wouldn't do video game design as a major, but rather computer science, with coursework both in video game design and in something more marketable. If he IS serious about this, he needs to make sure he's working very hard in math, and doing as much programming as he can. There is a surprising amount of math involved.

 

 

Ahhhh. This is the tough reality I wanted to know. Thank you.

[rjand6more]

This has been my experience in my computer science courses. The first year of classes were full of people who thought they should go into CS because they liked FB and video games. The reason they fail is a lack of math and (mostly) logic skills.

 

So my recommendation would be as much math as possible and a good logic course or two.

 

He really is passionate about it, not just a video game enthusiest. He has a strong math foundation, just does not like it.:tongue_smilie:

Thank you.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I live in the North American Mecca of video games. Ubisoft, EA, and lesser known are all in town. I worked in the industry (on the fringe of it) for 5 years.

 

There are two entrance ways into video games. Well, three, but the third one is a dead-end.

 

1. from the computer science field. High in math. You'll be programming all day long. Lots of pressure. Pay can be good (mine sure was!). Hours are bad. Working 100 hours a week is the norm. This is not for someone with a family.

 

2. from the arts side. Requires a formation and experience in movies. Pay is bad. Pressure is bad. Hours are bad. But it's extremely creative. This is where the games are actually designed.

 

The third one is as a game tester. That's where most young men want to be. Cause that's where you get to play games. But the pay is abysmal, and there's no future.

[rjand6more]

I live in the North American Mecca of video games. Ubisoft, EA, and lesser known are all in town. I worked in the industry (on the fringe of it) for 5 years.

 

There are two entrance ways into video games. Well, three, but the third one is a dead-end.

 

1. from the computer science field. High in math. You'll be programming all day long. Lots of pressure. Pay can be good (mine sure was!). Hours are bad. Working 100 hours a week is the norm. This is not for someone with a family.

 

2. from the arts side. Requires a formation and experience in movies. Pay is bad. Pressure is bad. Hours are bad. But it's extremely creative. This is where the games are actually designed.

 

The third one is as a game tester. That's where most young men want to be. Cause that's where you get to play games. But the pay is abysmal, and there's no future.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience. This is something he needs to consider.

 

 

Maybe he should shoot for something related? He is highly creative and is a great storyteller,creative writer. Loves all things computers. Any ideas?:001_huh:

[FaithManor]

It's a pretty saturated field so I'd be leery of considering it as a career for supporting a family on. But, there is soooo much brain development that can occur from pursuing it.

 

DH teaches our boys computer programming in conjunction with mathematics in order to reinforce the application of higher math. Visual Basic 6 to go with Algebra 1 (teaches the use of algebraic logarithyms), Introduction to Java with Geometry, Intermediate Java with Algebra/Trigonometry, C ++ with pre-calc and calculus.

 

Computer programming is a subset of mathematics and four-year degrees usually require a minimum of college calc 1 if not 2 & 3.

 

If you peruse MIT's opencourseware site and read the pre-requisites to many of the classes one would need to major in video game design, you can determine the sequence of mathematics required. Much of what actually constitutes writing screens for even a simple video game (simple within the industry, there are simple mazes, target shooting, etc. that students can learn to program with just Visual Basic) is 300-400 level college material after a LOT of math and programming languages have been mastered.

 

I don't mean to be a discouragement, not at all. But, just to have your eyes open as you help your son towards his goals and also to encourage him to have a dual major with something else, a bread and butter major, so he can make a living while he hopefully designs the next big game. :001_smile:

 

Faith

[angela in ohio]

He really is passionate about it, not just a video game enthusiest. He has a strong math foundation, just does not like it.:tongue_smilie:

Thank you.

 

I would definitely talk to him about whether he is willing to do something that involves something he dislikes, then. It's not just that math is a prereq for the computer courses, it's used in programming all the time. His desire would have to be greater than his dislike of math.

 

If he goes into anything related to computers, though, make sure he gets a good logic course in high school.

[TechWife]

Carnegie Mellon.

[butterflymommy]

My son is also obsessed with VG, but realistically, I don't see him as a programmer (he lacks the innate analytical/ math skills) or even designer (which teenage boy doesn't want to design VG?). He is also interested in law, so we're encouraging him to look into intellectual property law with an eye on eventually working as an attorney in the VG/ entertainment field.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Everyone is talking about becoming a programmer. Again, let me say it again. There are TWO ways into video games.

 

Here's a center near me (however it's all in French)

http://www.centrenad.com/fr/etudiez/baccalaureat/description

 

Les candidats recherchés doivent posséder un talent artistique, être créatifs, passionnés par les arts visuels et numériques et désirer évoluer dans une industrie innovante et dynamique offrant des perspectives de carrières intéressantes. Ce programme est destiné aux étudiants qui terminent leur cheminement collégial ou universitaire dans un domaine des arts visuels (arts plastiques, graphisme, infographie, cinéma, télévision, photographie, intégration multimédia, architecture, design industriel, etc.)

 

Quick translation

Candidates should possess artistic talent, be creative, passionate about the visual and digital arts and desire to evolve in a dynamic and innovative industry offering exciting career opportunities. This program is for students who complete their journey in a college or university visual arts (visual arts, graphic design, computer graphics, film, television, photography, multimedia integration, architecture, industrial design, etc.).

 

No mention of math. ;-) I've worked with many artists who had no understanding of basic algebra but could still handle a computer mouse and do graphics. And they were amazing.

 

Another well known school is Sheridan College. Here's the requirements for the Computer Animation - Digital Character Animation

A postsecondary diploma or degree in the visual or fine arts

 

http://www.sheridancollege.ca/Programs%20and%20Courses/Full-Time%20Programs/Programs%20A-Z%20Index/Computer%20Animation%20-%20Digital%20Character%20Animation.aspx

 

 

And here is the basic Computer Animation program:

http://www.sheridancollege.ca/Programs%20and%20Courses/Full-Time%20Programs/Programs%20A-Z%20Index/Computer%20Animation.aspx

 

Those programs do NOT require any computer programming at all. It's a completely different beast. It's like saying you need to know C# in order to do any digital photo work in Photoshop. Or saying you need programming skills to use Word to write the next Nobel Prize. Computer programming and math are NOT requirements. In the big companies, the work is divided between the artists and the programmers. And the artists lead the game, not the programmers.

Edited August 22, 2011 by CleoQc

[rjand6more]

It's a pretty saturated field so I'd be leery of considering it as a career for supporting a family on. But, there is soooo much brain development that can occur from pursuing it.

 

DH teaches our boys computer programming in conjunction with mathematics in order to reinforce the application of higher math. Visual Basic 6 to go with Algebra 1 (teaches the use of algebraic logarithyms), Introduction to Java with Geometry, Intermediate Java with Algebra/Trigonometry, C ++ with pre-calc and calculus.

 

Computer programming is a subset of mathematics and four-year degrees usually require a minimum of college calc 1 if not 2 & 3.

 

If you peruse MIT's opencourseware site and read the pre-requisites to many of the classes one would need to major in video game design, you can determine the sequence of mathematics required. Much of what actually constitutes writing screens for even a simple video game (simple within the industry, there are simple mazes, target shooting, etc. that students can learn to program with just Visual Basic) is 300-400 level college material after a LOT of math and programming languages have been mastered.

 

I don't mean to be a discouragement, not at all. But, just to have your eyes open as you help your son towards his goals and also to encourage him to have a dual major with something else, a bread and butter major, so he can make a living while he hopefully designs the next big game. :001_smile:

 

Faith

 

Yes, I want him to have his eyes wide open to all this may require. I am certain he would not want to take Calc 2 & 3:glare:. I so appreciate the realities I am getting on this thread. I am sharing all of them with him.

[rjand6more]

I would definitely talk to him about whether he is willing to do something that involves something he dislikes, then. It's not just that math is a prereq for the computer courses, it's used in programming all the time. His desire would have to be greater than his dislike of math.

 

If he goes into anything related to computers, though, make sure he gets a good logic course in high school.

 

 

We are doing The Art of Argument this semester. I hope it is pretty good. We may follow up with something next semester.

 

Thanks!

[rjand6more]

Carnegie Mellon.

 

 

Thanks!

[rjand6more]

My son is also obsessed with VG, but realistically, I don't see him as a programmer (he lacks the innate analytical/ math skills) or even designer (which teenage boy doesn't want to design VG?). He is also interested in law, so we're encouraging him to look into intellectual property law with an eye on eventually working as an attorney in the VG/ entertainment field.

 

 

My son is fascinated with the design and development. I am all for helping him realize his dream(in some form) while keeping the reality there.kwim? Sounds like your ds has a great 2nd choice!

[rjand6more]

Everyone is talking about becoming a programmer. Again, let me say it again. There are TWO ways into video games.

 

Here's a center near me (however it's all in French)

http://www.centrenad.com/fr/etudiez/baccalaureat/description

 

 

 

Quick translation

Candidates should possess artistic talent, be creative, passionate about the visual and digital arts and desire to evolve in a dynamic and innovative industry offering exciting career opportunities. This program is for students who complete their journey in a college or university visual arts (visual arts, graphic design, computer graphics, film, television, photography, multimedia integration, architecture, industrial design, etc.).

 

No mention of math. ;-) I've worked with many artists who had no understanding of basic algebra but could still handle a computer mouse and do graphics. And they were amazing.

 

Another well known school is Sheridan College. Here's the requirements for the Computer Animation - Digital Character Animation

A postsecondary diploma or degree in the visual or fine arts

 

http://www.sheridancollege.ca/Programs%20and%20Courses/Full-Time%20Programs/Programs%20A-Z%20Index/Computer%20Animation%20-%20Digital%20Character%20Animation.aspx

 

 

And here is the basic Computer Animation program:

http://www.sheridancollege.ca/Programs%20and%20Courses/Full-Time%20Programs/Programs%20A-Z%20Index/Computer%20Animation.aspx

 

Those programs do NOT require any computer programming at all. It's a completely different beast. It's like saying you need to know C# in order to do any digital photo work in Photoshop. Or saying you need programming skills to use Word to write the next Nobel Prize. Computer programming and math are NOT requirements. In the big companies, the work is divided between the artists and the programmers. And the artists lead the game, not the programmers.

 

I talked with my ds and this is for sure the route he would take. However, I shared your info about long hours, highly competative, sometimes not great pay etc. He is so unsure!!

[wapiti]

We are doing The Art of Argument this semester. I hope it is pretty good. We may follow up with something next semester.

 

Thanks!

 

I may be off-base here (because I don't know a thing about video games and only have the vaguest recollection of a course I took in COBOL many, many years ago :lol:), but my guess is that the logic involved would be more of the mathematical kind. You might try something like Suppes' First Course in Mathematical Logic.

[rjand6more]

I may be off-base here (because I don't know a thing about video games and only have the vaguest recollection of a course I took in COBOL many, many years ago :lol:), but my guess is that the logic involved would be more of the mathematical kind. You might try something like Suppes' First Course in Mathematical Logic.

 

 

Ahhh, I see. I am just learning! Thank you!

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Follow up here:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315316

 

The example software I mentioned in above thread does not address video game in itself, but does show that math and computer sciences are not needed.

[tex-mex]

This has been my experience in my computer science courses. The first year of classes were full of people who thought they should go into CS because they liked FB and video games. The reason they fail is a lack of math and (mostly) logic skills.

 

So my recommendation would be as much math as possible and a good logic course or two.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Ds is very interested in Game Design -- we have a mentor in a former homeschooler who now works as a Video Game Programmer with a brand new video game company here in TX. The one thing our friend told us is to expect lots of MATH. The one Game Design program we looked at was UT Austin and the first math course listed is Calculus I.

 

I don't know how serious my ds is -- but I keep telling him if this is the route he wants as a career -- he needs to do more math in high school. So far, he enjoys the math (Algebra I and Geometry) thus far and his grades are excellent. I am worried when we get to Pre-Calculus. That is over my pay scale. ;)

 

Our mentor's degree was Computer Science and for a long time a minor in Math to work as a programmer. He got an internship as a Junior in college for a top Video Game company in Austin and after the summer internship, they wanted to hire him. Our friend's parents freaked out thinking he would never get his degree. It sounds like this type of hiring is quite common in the video game industry and many later finish their degree or go to graduate school (i.e. Guildhall at SMU) to get a Master's for supervisory jobs in the industry. You can be a video game tester while in college and the pay is good -- but without a degree or internship, you won't go anywhere.

 

Our mentor decided to decline the offer (to his parent's relief) and finish out his Senior year at UNT Denton -- he ended up taking a couple of extra math classes that he ended up with a double CS/Math degree.

 

I would suggest besides math to attend any video game conferences, classes, and simply begin to learn how a computer works from soldering a motherboard, wiring, and more.

[tex-mex]

My son is fascinated with the design and development. I am all for helping him realize his dream(in some form) while keeping the reality there.kwim? Sounds like your ds has a great 2nd choice!

 

If it helps, UT Austin has a business degree program for those who want to work in the video game industry but do not want to do the higher math. It sounds like a great program!

[abbeyej]

http://www.catalog.gatech.edu/colleges/cola/lcc/ugrad/bscm/geninfo.php

[CarlaJoy]

You've gotten some good information here. My husband is a video game programmer and if you have any other specific questions, please let me know and I can pass them on to him.