What makes a lab science good enough to be called with lab?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I've been working on a syllabus for our science for the year (one semester of meteorology and one of earth science - focused on geology). [This is for a 7th and 8th grader, partly for content and partly to teach them how to do science lab reports.]

 

We're using the JetStream online course from the National Weather Service. It has a set of "Learning Lessons" that range from simple demonstrations to what I would consider to be a hands on experiment.

 

It made me wonder what in a science lab makes it stringent enough to be considered "with lab" on a transcript.

 

Is it a matter of level of difficulty? Hitting standard lessons (like dissection for biology)? Or maybe how the activity is written up?

 

 

Thoughts?

 

ETA: These are musings for when they are in high school, prompted by thinking about the activities in JetStream, which are labeled as "learning lessons" but that could be either demos or labs depending on how they were presented (imho).

Edited August 21, 2011 by Sebastian (a lady)

[AngelBee]

:lurk5:

[regentrude]

You will find that it varies widely. Some courses do weekly labs. OTOH there are college courses with lab component where the students only do six labs per semester. I do not think the sheer number of labs indicates anything about the quality and the learning that takes place.

So far, we have done one lab science, physics, where we designed the labs ourselves. We have decided to go for quality rather than quantity. We have started by thinking about objectives that we would like the lab to accomplish. In the end, we have done ten labs - with very involved data analysis, error analysis, scientific graphing etc, which, for physics, constituted our main learning objectives.

In some subjects, you may have a learning objective that involves a different practical skill (dissection, titration), so you may need to do enough labs that the student can learn the skill.

[lakerks]

The first thing that comes to my mind is that the student is doing science rather than just reading about it in a book. That doesn't mean all hands-on activities are true experiments, though. They are frequently just demonstrations - not that that's always bad, but it is a difference. And some "labs" are mostly just an opportunity to practice a skill. If you poke around on the NSTA website, you'll see a lot about inquiry activities. That may give you some ideas.

 

When I was teaching public school, it seems like there was a certain percentage of our time we were supposed to spend on lab. (20% - 50% maybe? - sorry, it's been a while . . .)

 

Also, this is old, too, but in college, I'd take a 3-credit lecture class and a 1-credit accompanying lab class. It would meet for 3 hours once a week, and that whole time was definitely lab work - almost always something I'd consider practical/skill use.

[zaichiki]

What about Froguts (online dissection and mendelian genetics module)? Would this be enough to count as a lab?

Just curious.

[In The Great White North]

I didn't realize there was any such distinction before high school. (Does your state want that?)

 

Even in high school and college, it varies dramatically from school to school, and even class to class. They could have anywhere from 3 to 30 labs. Sadly, a lot of those experiments in the Illustrated Guide would be demonstration only in the public school. I really don't think there are any widely accepted standards for what counts as a lab course.

 

On their high school transcript, I called whatever I wanted "lab," taught them how to write a lab report and made sure dc would be able to handle the lab work when they got to college "if they went to the college I went to." I think my standards were high enough. :D

 

Also, I feel looking at a lab is not the same as doing a lab, whether it's being performed on line or at the front of the classroom, but I know it happens. It certainly happened when I was in high school. That was never the only experiment though. So Froguts can be fun but if that's all they do, it shouldn't count as a lab course.

[regentrude]

Also, I feel looking at a lab is not the same as doing a lab, whether it's being performed on line or at the front of the classroom, but I know it happens. It certainly happened when I was in high school. That was never the only experiment though. So Froguts can be fun but if that's all they do, it shouldn't count as a lab course.

 

:iagree:

Watching somebody do something is a demonstration, not a lab. I can see using a virtual lab for a selected activity, such as one dissection to supplement the regular lab work - but not as a substitute for actual lab work. I have seen virtual "labs" where you drag with the mouse virtual beakers and manipulate virtual droppers and obtain simulated result. That is not the same thing as actually working with the materials, pouring and measuring yourself, dropping, slicing etc.

[angela in ohio]

I agree that I can't imagine a distinction before high school.

 

The rule of thumb I have been using for high school is 20-25% of the class time is spent on lab work. I read that a few places, and like a pp, reasoned that my college courses were 3+1 credits for lecture/lab, so it seemed about right. In reality, each week we spend 3-4 hours on lecture/discussion, and then 2-3 hours on the lab, though. :D

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I didn't realize there was any such distinction before high school. (Does your state want that?)

 

Even in high school and college, it varies dramatically from school to school, and even class to class. They could have anywhere from 3 to 30 labs. Sadly, a lot of those experiments in the Illustrated Guide would be demonstration only in the public school. I really don't think there are any widely accepted standards for what counts as a lab course.

 

On their high school transcript, I called whatever I wanted "lab," taught them how to write a lab report and made sure dc would be able to handle the lab work when they got to college "if they went to the college I went to." I think my standards were high enough. :D

 

Also, I feel looking at a lab is not the same as doing a lab, whether it's being performed on line or at the front of the classroom, but I know it happens. It certainly happened when I was in high school. That was never the only experiment though. So Froguts can be fun but if that's all they do, it shouldn't count as a lab course.

 

No the state doesn't require a lab science for anything before high school. It's more of a philosophical question that I wanted to provide background on. I was working on smoothing the syllabus for the course and was thinking about the activities they provided and started wondering about the nature of labs.

 

I think in my mind it is something that might have a few different outcomes, makes the student really think about the nature of what is happening and why that is, has a report that includes a summary of what they observed and what they have concluded, and allows for further expansion.

 

This class isn't something that is likely to go onto their high school transcript, but it is my hope that they will learn lab report skills out of it as well as what makes a good experiment.

[In The Great White North]

what makes a good experiment.

 

I don't remember hitting this til AP Chemistry.

[zaichiki]

I have seen virtual "labs" where you drag with the mouse virtual beakers and manipulate virtual droppers and obtain simulated result. That is not the same thing as actually working with the materials, pouring and measuring yourself, dropping, slicing etc.

 

You have a point: virtual is NOT the same as IRL labs. But, would those virtual labs given enough experience/instruction to be able to be called labs, do you think?

[regentrude]

You have a point: virtual is NOT the same as IRL labs. But, would those virtual labs given enough experience/instruction to be able to be called labs, do you think?

 

No. If one of the objectives is, for instance, proper handling of lab equipment, I fail to see how dragging objects with a mouse will teach that. If one of the objectives is to learn how to get precise readings from measurements, having a digital number pop up as a result will not teach that.

I even question the value of actual labs where the data gathering is completely done by electronic sensors and fed into the computer (think DataStudio software) - the student learns much less compared to old fashioned measuring and plotting. This, IMO, is one area where technology simplifies the procedure to such a degree that the actual learning is hindered. Will the professional scientist in the lab later use this technology to gather vast amounts of data? Absolutely. But it is not useful for teaching.

[Ester Maria]

No. If one of the objectives is, for instance, proper handling of lab equipment, I fail to see how dragging objects with a mouse will teach that. If one of the objectives is to learn how to get precise readings from measurements, having a digital number pop up as a result will not teach that.

I even question the value of actual labs where the data gathering is completely done by electronic sensors and fed into the computer (think DataStudio software) - the student learns much less compared to old fashioned measuring and plotting. This, IMO, is one area where technology simplifies the procedure to such a degree that the actual learning is hindered. Will the professional scientist in the lab later use this technology to gather vast amounts of data? Absolutely. But it is not useful for teaching.

I agree.

[harmonyartmom]

Sebastian,

 

I am actually posting a little about this very topic tomorrow on my blog (what I would do differently with science if I could start over again).

 

Shortened version of part of my answer:

I think labs can be useful but don't need to be fancy. I have decided after struggling with trying to give the big "wow" labs that simple labs teach what I want my boys to learn: lab procedure, how to record a lab, and to think beyond the text. I am limiting the number of labs to those that are going to teach what they need to know and then leaving the rest for online demos, YouTube videos, and then co-op classes, cc, and beyond. So many of the "labs" presented in Apologia are repeats of other labs so in chemistry we really had to reach out to other sources for labs which turned out fine but we did only a few a term.

 

You can spend lots of time, money, and effort and many times the lab falls flat. (Don't you HATE that?) All that fussing and you could have done just as well to have them watch an online demo and then research any questions or topics that come up. If they decide they want to do the lab, we will discuss it and make a decision.

 

My oldest took lab science in public high school....what a disappointment. The teacher was so afraid to do anything with the class that she never let them work labs independently. It was always a demonstration. Actually the "lab" class my daughter took in cc was pretty much the same way.

[zaichiki]

The teacher was so afraid to do anything with the class that she never let them work labs independently. It was always a demonstration. Actually the "lab" class my daughter took in cc was pretty much the same way.

 

I remember high school chemistry: our teacher demonstrated the whole lab from start to finish and then we all went to our stations with our partner and did what she did. Of course our lab reports were due the next day. I don't know how common that is...

[Joan in GE]

It made me wonder what in a science lab makes it stringent enough to be considered "with lab" on a transcript.

 

I think it partly depends on where the student is applying and the field in which s/he wants to work...Since the public schools are all over the place about what constitutes a lab, there is not an official standard. But I have read of some schools wanting to see the lab notebook, or see samples of lab reports. I know some people took pictures...

 

For AP Physics with PAHS last year, ds3 did, if I remember correctly, 6-8 labs with real equipment.

 

No. If one of the objectives is, for instance, proper handling of lab equipment, I fail to see how dragging objects with a mouse will teach that. If one of the objectives is to learn how to get precise readings from measurements, having a digital number pop up as a result will not teach that.

 

In some ways I disagree. While I think that real life experience is important - esp with learning to deal with experiments that don't "work", and learning how to manipulate chemicals in a way that the lab does not explode, I think it is the total lab exposure over the years...

 

I looked at the overall lab experience that ds had in chemistry, physics and biology....most of his biology labs were virtual with the exception of some dissections and for chem and physics they were real... he learned to manipulate lab equipment in chemistry and do careful measurements and deal with equipment that didn't always work the way it was supposed to in physics, as well as have labs graded by someone outside the family. The Biology Labs Online were great in that he was manipulating enzymes, etc, and getting to see how different quantities changed the outcome, graphing results, etc with virtual equipment that my older sons IRL school never even dealt with at all. So for me, in some ways ds3's experience was superior, as he was exposed to types of labs that they weren't.

 

Teamwork - The part he missed was working in a team to do an experiment, learning to delegate or be delegated, learning how to deal with team members who don't want to work hard, etc. That reminds me of this team work document that helps people be aware of how much each person is doing. When I discussed it with my brother who teaches high school physics, he said they were using this type of system for big projects for the team members and that they make the student keep time sheets and log purchases/driving/equipment use. My ds3 did get some idea of teamwork at home for chore sharing, but for an only child, maybe it could be found in some kind of extracurricular activity...

 

Joan

Edited August 22, 2011 by Joan in Geneva

[lakerks]

"I remember high school chemistry: our teacher demonstrated the whole lab from start to finish and then we all went to our stations with our partner and did what she did. Of course our lab reports were due the next day. I don't know how common that is..."

 

Just to clarify - are you suggesting that was a good or bad way to do it? (And why?)

[FaithManor]

You will find that it varies widely. Some courses do weekly labs. OTOH there are college courses with lab component where the students only do six labs per semester. I do not think the sheer number of labs indicates anything about the quality and the learning that takes place.

So far, we have done one lab science, physics, where we designed the labs ourselves. We have decided to go for quality rather than quantity. We have started by thinking about objectives that we would like the lab to accomplish. In the end, we have done ten labs - with very involved data analysis, error analysis, scientific graphing etc, which, for physics, constituted our main learning objectives.

In some subjects, you may have a learning objective that involves a different practical skill (dissection, titration), so you may need to do enough labs that the student can learn the skill.

 

I agree with Regentrude. I look very carefully at the labs "suggested" in the books. Many times they are demonstrations or so simple that no real learning takes place. Now, I will qualify that by saying part of this could be because we teach science intensively from 1st grade on, read constantly from scientific journals (it's not uncommon for me to finish my meal quickly and while everyone else is enjoying their evening meal, I'll read from National Geographic, Scientific Amercan, Popular Science, Astronomy, or some other periodical or science book. We actually love to read from "The Elements" just for pure enjoyment.), and do rather complicated scientific processes/projects with our kids from a young age so that by the time we hit middle school and high school science, much of what is listed as labs are rather simplistic for the kids. But, the reality is that wherever your student is beginning in their scientific pursuit, the goal should be real learning, and following the scientific method and though demonstrations have their place, do not confuse them with "doing" science. You need to evaluate your child's science skills and then work from there.

 

Additionally, we require an end of year project - starting in 5th grade - that demonstrates the ability to form a hypothesis, design an experiment, and test it. For the younger child, this can be something fairly simple.

 

I recommend that the student keep a lab notebook/journal as well as filling out lab sheets appropo to each individual lab. I find that grading that lab journal every few weeks keeps me abreast as to whether or not the kids are progressing in their skills, the work is too easy - too difficult - just right - and so forth.

 

Quallity is more important than quantity. However, this must be the overriding concern only when it is kept in perspective. A student cannot learn and become comfortable/profficient with the scientific method if there isn't a reasonable quantity of scientific experiences. One or two quality labs per semester will not a proficient scientist produce. My suggestion is to work with your child's skill level at present, but look to accomplish six - eight labs per semester that incrementally increase in difficulty. This does require a bit of planning ahead because many labs included with a number of middle school and even early high school texts really do not increase in complexity and at the end of the year, the student is not necessarily more advanced in their ability to do science than when they began other than to be more at home with the lab equipment.

 

Faith

[regentrude]

In some ways I disagree. While I think that real life experience is important - esp with learning to deal with experiments that don't "work", and learning how to manipulate chemicals in a way that the lab does not explode, I think it is the total lab exposure over the years...

 

I looked at the overall lab experience that ds had in chemistry, physics and biology....most of his biology labs were virtual with the exception of some dissections and for chem and physics they were real... he learned to manipulate lab equipment in chemistry and do careful measurements and deal with equipment that didn't always work the way it was supposed to in physics, as well as have labs graded by someone outside the family. The Biology Labs Online were great in that he was manipulating enzymes, etc, and getting to see how different quantities changed the outcome, graphing results, etc with virtual equipment that my older sons IRL school never even dealt with at all. So for me, in some ways ds3's experience was superior, as he was exposed to types of labs that they weren't.

 

 

I am glad you feel that your son had a good lab experience.

 

From my own high school experience, I remember that biology lab used very different skills from chemistry lab. Preparing a slide and using it under the microscope is not something you do in chemistry. I am not sure how you gain microscope expertise by doing an online lab.

Actually, I even find using purchased slides that somebody else prepared is not good - because the student never practices slicing his own specimen and preparing slides, which I recall was VERY difficult.

[Joan in GE]

I agree with Regentrude. I look very carefully at the labs "suggested" in the books. Many times they are demonstrations or so simple that no real learning takes place. Now, I will qualify that by saying part of this could be because we teach science intensively from 1st grade on, read constantly from scientific journals (it's not uncommon for me to finish my meal quickly and while everyone else is enjoying their evening meal, I'll read from National Geographic, Scientific Amercan, Popular Science, Astronomy, or some other periodical or science book. We actually love to read from "The Elements" just for pure enjoyment.), and do rather complicated scientific processes/projects with our kids from a young age so that by the time we hit middle school and high school science, much of what is listed as labs are rather simplistic for the kids. But, the reality is that wherever your student is beginning in their scientific pursuit, the goal should be real learning, and following the scientific method and though demonstrations have their place, do not confuse them with "doing" science. You need to evaluate your child's science skills and then work from there.

 

It's quite true that the family experience which emphasizes science is important and not to be overlooked in recommendations (which I did overlook).

 

From my own high school experience, I remember that biology lab used very different skills from chemistry lab. Preparing a slide and using it under the microscope is not something you do in chemistry. I am not sure how you gain microscope expertise by doing an online lab.

Actually, I even find using purchased slides that somebody else prepared is not good - because the student never practices slicing his own specimen and preparing slides, which I recall was VERY difficult.

 

I had forgotten that we did do slides with microscopes already in middle school and I agree that it is different, so "to be included" if possible...and I still remember Nan's great proposal to ask to use a microscope at a science museum...maybe there, one would get help doing harder slides if the student shows interest..this makes me want to start a poll to see how many people have microscopes or access to one...

 

But I don't remember making my own slices in high school...looking at an onion skin or cells from mouth membranes is not so hard to do at home....Mine also got microscope experience at the local nature center and in science classes at the local botanical garden...so maybe I'm taking some things for granted...but that would be an option for people as well....to have their children exposed to different aspects of lab science in other places...even it it was not covered exactly at the time when they were studying "biology" for example...Even though they are not writing up a lab report about it, they've gotten the exposure to a skill set...So many of the science museums also now have hands-on-experiments that can give lab exposure that one doesn't get at home...

 

I just don't think that all American high school students are necessarily doing all these things at this point in time and so they do not necessarily have to be part of the "lab experience" for all homeschoolers. We should do the best we can with what is available and with the funds we have and be as creative as possible about getting experience.

 

Joan

[regentrude]

ine also got microscope experience at the local nature center and in science classes at the local botanical garden...so maybe I'm taking some things for granted...but that would be an option for people as well....to have their children exposed to different aspects of lab science in other places...even it it was not covered exactly at the time when they were studying "biology" for example...Even though they are not writing up a lab report about it, they've gotten the exposure to a skill set...So many of the science museums also now have hands-on-experiments that can give lab exposure that one doesn't get at home...

 

 

That sounds wonderful! What a fabulous idea.

I am envious of the resources you have available. For us, the closest science center and botanical garden are a two hour drive one way - which makes is not feasible to do classes, sigh. I guess I have to cultivate friendships with colleagues in biology and chem to be able to ask favors -unfortunately, the undergrad labs are overbooked and can hardly handle their own students...

[zaichiki]

"I remember high school chemistry: our teacher demonstrated the whole lab from start to finish and then we all went to our stations with our partner and did what she did. Of course our lab reports were due the next day. I don't know how common that is..."

 

Just to clarify - are you suggesting that was a good or bad way to do it? (And why?)

 

Well, I went to a school that was known for being college-prep, so one would think the labs would be done in a proper way. Hmmm... but I don't remember it being challenging at all. I guess we did learn how to handle the equipment first hand, but it was just "monkey see monkey do." We were only re-creating what we had just seen, so... I don't know.

 

Is that set up common for a good lab? Should I use that as my measuring stick when trying to decide whether or not to give lab credit to my child?

[Joan in GE]

For us, the closest science center and botanical garden are a two hour drive one way - which makes is not feasible to do classes, sigh.

 

Maybe in Germany you could do biology/German focus on your vacation? The classes mine have done are not weekly, and some of the experiences have been through a program in the summer which puts young people into work settings for a day...eg dd just spent the day at Firmenich (perfume and flavor maker) in the lab...actually they did use a microscope to look at the emulsion of fats in a cream...

 

I guess I have to cultivate friendships with colleagues in biology and chem to be able to ask favors -unfortunately, the undergrad labs are overbooked and can hardly handle their own students...

Maybe there is a biologist who is homeschooling and you could trade talents... Also, have you looked into the homeschooling community in your area? Sometimes there is someone with expertise and materials who would want to teach others about microscope use, for example...

 

Joan

 

ETA - I forgot to thank you, Faith, for sharing some more of the details of how you do it - very inspiring.

 

Additionally, we require an end of year project - starting in 5th grade - that demonstrates the ability to form a hypothesis, design an experiment, and test it. For the younger child, this can be something fairly simple.

 

I recommend that the student keep a lab notebook/journal as well as filling out lab sheets appropo to each individual lab. I find that grading that lab journal every few weeks keeps me abreast as to whether or not the kids are progressing in their skills, the work is too easy - too difficult - just right - and so forth.

 

Quallity is more important than quantity. However, this must be the overriding concern only when it is kept in perspective. A student cannot learn and become comfortable/profficient with the scientific method if there isn't a reasonable quantity of scientific experiences. One or two quality labs per semester will not a proficient scientist produce. My suggestion is to work with your child's skill level at present, but look to accomplish six - eight labs per semester that incrementally increase in difficulty. This does require a bit of planning ahead because many labs included with a number of middle school and even early high school texts really do not increase in complexity and at the end of the year, the student is not necessarily more advanced in their ability to do science than when they began other than to be more at home with the lab equipment.

Edited August 23, 2011 by Joan in Geneva

[MyThreeSons]

When I was teaching public school, it seems like there was a certain percentage of our time we were supposed to spend on lab. (20% - 50% maybe? - sorry, it's been a while . . .)

 

 

From the SC state standards: "All physics courses are laboratory courses (minimum of 30 percent hands-on investigation)." There are similar statements for Biology and Chemistry.

 

There are also many specifics about using equipment, analyzing data obtained, drawing conclusions, and designing investigations. This is one of the reasons I've switched our co-op curriculum for Physics from Apologia; their "labs" were really more demonstration than experiment. I don't have a problem with including demonstration-type activities in the hands-on investigations category, but there does need to be a substantial amount of true experimentation, with a control variable, numbers to crunch, results to present in tabular or graphic form, and conclusions to draw. Dropping two sheets of paper -- one flat and one crumpled up --to see which hits the ground first is NOT an experiment.

[Rhonda in TX]

From my own high school experience, I remember that biology lab used very different skills from chemistry lab. Preparing a slide and using it under the microscope is not something you do in chemistry. I am not sure how you gain microscope expertise by doing an online lab.

Actually, I even find using purchased slides that somebody else prepared is not good - because the student never practices slicing his own specimen and preparing slides, which I recall was VERY difficult.

 

I had not considered this. I have a microscope because I believe it's a skill that my children need, but I had not considered the skill of actually preparing the slide. I don't think I did a lot of slicing my own specimens, but I did do it at some point, so I think that's something we'll definitely add to our lab experience.

[Joan in GE]

From the SC state standards: "All physics courses are laboratory courses (minimum of 30 percent hands-on investigation)." There are similar statements for Biology and Chemistry.

 

Wow, very interesting! I don't think we quite did that. This made me realize that I've been going on hearsay.

 

So I started searching and found:

 

High School Graduation Requirements for Science - but it only gives the number of lab courses required, if any...not hours...so far the only other "hour" requirement I could find was NY for the Regents exam...

 

- in Ohio - requirement of 150 hrs of course instruction for the lab science credit..

- in NY for the Regents exam - (FYI- they have certain conditions where science done in 8th grade can count for high school credit). They always have seemed to have high standards...

"

20 What is the laboratory requirement for admission to a Regents examination in science?

For admission to a Regents examination in science, a student must complete the State- mandated laboratory requirement. The laboratory component must be provided in addition to the required classroom instruction associated with earning a unit of credit and must include 1200 minutes of hands-on laboratory with satisfactory laboratory reports [100.5(b)(7)(iv)(d)]. Laboratory reports must be kept on file for at least six months after the student takes a Regents examination in science. "

 

Then I started wondering about the IB program and what they do...

This lab report doc says they do 30 - 40 % practical experience

 

 

...and found this criteria document of how they grade the labs

eg

Chemistry

 

I guess it is too late for ds3, but there is always dd to prepare for....it's good to get these standards clear in my mind....

 

Thanks,

Joan

 

 

 

[FaithManor]

Thanks for posting that, Joan! It's good to know.

 

Faith

[SailorMom]

I've been stressing over this lately :) We're doing biology this year - 8th - but are doing a high school honors level course and I want to be able to count it as a lab science.

From my research (all over the place....) and talking to a few teachers locally, this is the general gist I got (but this is only specifically for biology):

About 3 disections - more or less depending on how extensive they are

At least 4 labs that deal with the microscope

One large, long term ecology study

at least 8 other labs that cover basic lab skills and the process of forming a question, designing an experiment to try to solve the problem, performing the experiment, and then write ups that include deciding whether the experiment designed was the best for that probelm, what could have been done differently etc.

[TravelingChris]

I know that there were certain goals I had for science in high school (or jr. high). One was a certain body of knowledge- that was accomplished through texts, lectures, online classes, etc. Next was practicing scientific procedures- hypotheses, observation, data, etc. - that all my kids did with science fair and a certain amount of written up labs. They also practiced using various equipment, like microscopes, chemistry glassware, etc. Finally there is the teamwork aspect of labs- well each of them did teamwork in other areas- one was a Scout, one was a leader of several groups that worked on various projects and the last one has been in competitive teams that worked on projects (once Odyssey of the Mind and now on a Robotics team).

 

With regards to my experiences in classes, I remember minimal labs in bio (though we did do a fetal pig dissection), extensive labs in chemistry, and mostly demonstrations in physics. My older kids had more labs than me in biology, less in chemistry, and probably a bit more in physics.The one who is done with college got A's in all three of his science classes and said they were almost all review for him.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I read through the jet stream "lessons" and if you add those to your meteorology text I would say it is definately a lab science. You could also look at the Lab books for other Sciences (Prentice Hall and CPO Earth are the ones I have) if you want more. You should have DC keep a Lab journal/reports.

[MyThreeSons]

"

...it's good to get these standards clear in my mind....

 

 

Our co-op is making an effort to meet the state standards in math and science courses. (Others, too, maybe, but I'm only involved in the math and science discussions.) The frustrating thing is that I tutor some local public school students, and I know that they are not being taught to the standards.

[In The Great White North]

20 What is the laboratory requirement for admission to a Regents examination in science?

For admission to a Regents examination in science, a student must complete the State- mandated laboratory requirement. The laboratory component must be provided in addition to the required classroom instruction associated with earning a unit of credit and must include 1200 minutes of hands-on laboratory with satisfactory laboratory reports [100.5(b)(7)(iv)(d)]. Laboratory reports must be kept on file for at least six months after the student takes a Regents examination in science. "

 

 

 

NY counts minutes!! That's a little over-the-top! When I was in school, some kids took twice as long as others to do theirs. I am so glad we are not in school, wasting time counting minutes of lab work, so we have more time to, umm . . . do labs.

[Jenny in Florida]

The frustrating thing is that I tutor some local public school students, and I know that they are not being taught to the standards.

 

Here's the thing: I think there's a distinction to be made between what a lab science "should be" and what some (or possibly many) public schools are doing.

 

For example, my son took science online last year through FLVS. The official description clearly identifies Earth-Space Science as "a labratory course." However, I can remember him doing only two or three hands-on activities, all of which were no more than "stovetop science" projects, the kind of thing you can do with "common household items."

 

I would be embarassed to call that a lab science on his transcript, if I didn't have the outside validation. And the science classes we're designing and doing at home will have a much more significant lab component. But I do think that homeschool parents tend to have kind of an inferiority complex about this stuff. The truth is that a lot of schools aren't doing much of anything that many of us would "count."

[angela in ohio]

NY counts minutes!! That's a little over-the-top! When I was in school, some kids took twice as long as others to do theirs. I am so glad we are not in school, wasting time counting minutes of lab work, so we have more time to, umm . . . do labs.

 

I would assume they count minutes because different schools have different class lengths. It would be easy enough to just divide the minutes by how long your particular school has per period and see how many classes you needto spend. For an average school, it looks like that would work out to about one class per week (maybe a bit less.)