TKDmom Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I just read this article on Decision Fatigue. It's long, but fascinating. No wonder I turn into a puddle of indecision and exhaustion at the end of every day. As I was reading it, I realized why workboxes have been such a huge help in our day (fewer decisions for me to make). And why I get so grumpy while I'm making dinner (Duh. I'm hungry. And people keep asking me questions). And why I need chocolate after the kids have been particularly whiny and I've had to say "no" to 50-zillion requests (I need the sugar to recover from all those decisions). What kind of things have you set up to reduce the number of little decisions that you have to make on a day-to-day basis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookfiend Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I tell people to stop talking to me. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I am a perfectionist and fall into the trap of overanalyzing and trying to optimize every decision. What helps is to put the time I spend thinking about the decision in relation to the importance of the decision and the severity of the consequence of a wrong decision. The bigger a decision, i.e. the more severe consequences a lack of judgment will have, the more time it is worth to spend on. By these measures, picking a shampoo brand or deciding what's for dinner or which book to read are not worth pondering for more than a few minutes - because the consequences of a wrong decision are minimal. Picking a car - more time warranted, few weeks are good. Picking a house - few weeks or months. Picking a spouse - extremely important decision, very bad consequences for wrong choice, so a few years are well spent ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelle in MO Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I tell people to stop talking to me. ;) Did you see this t-shirt on a thread by us4jones earlier today? :lol: http://www.amazon.com/Enough-Social-Interaction-Tee-Medium/dp/B001JKC8GY/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1312700332&sr=8-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 One of my MIL's themes (besides "Children must have a routine") is that "Children should not have to make decisions." That would be any decisions at all. No asking them if they want ketchup on their burger, what kind of juice they want, would they rather wear a red shirt or a blue shirt today, etc. Well into grade school. The theory is that it adds stress to their lives and forces them to accept responsibility (for the decision) before they are emotionally, mentally, spiritually able to do so (which would happen around the Logic stage - but she didn't call it that.) Note that it is not "be allowed to make decisions," but "have to make decisions," even if they think they want to. BTW, she was a pre-school teacher at a Waldorf school for years and years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookfiend Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Did you see this t-shirt on a thread by us4jones earlier today? :lol: http://www.amazon.com/Enough-Social-Interaction-Tee-Medium/dp/B001JKC8GY/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1312700332&sr=8-12 No, but it's going in my cart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Meal planning. Getting it all done at once so I'm not staring into the fridge in the afternoon thinking, "Okay, now what?" when I'm already tired and worn down. ... In the last few weeks (and it'll continue through the school year), we've had to leave the house around 3:30 and don't get home 'til 7-7:30 or so. But because I've planned out all of my meals (and I know some people prefer to "pantry cook", but you can still do that just by planning from your pantry and writing down what you'll be making ahead of time) and done all of the prep work early in the day, I can walk in and know *exactly* what needs to be done to get dinner on the table within 10 minutes or so of walking in the door. If I had to make decisions at that point, exhausted, coming off a long drive home... Well, I'd probably just cry every day. ;) Cry and eat pizza. ;) Having all the decisions made ahead of time really, really helps. The family eats better and I don't feel as totally fried. (Ironically, even if the meal I've planned and prepped earlier in the day is much more complex than the quick thing I'd come up with if I waited to figure it out once I was home)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDmom Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 I tell people to stop talking to me. ;) :lol: I do!! But they don't seem to hear me. I can tell them to go away and stop talking to me, but dc must think I don't really mean it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Researcher Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 :iagree: Meal planning is a huge help in my house. Speaking of, I need to get back on that wagon. :blushing: It all fell apart recently and it shows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDmom Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 One of my MIL's themes (besides "Children must have a routine") is that "Children should not have to make decisions." That would be any decisions at all. No asking them if they want ketchup on their burger, what kind of juice they want, would they rather wear a red shirt or a blue shirt today, etc. Well into grade school. The theory is that it adds stress to their lives and forces them to accept responsibility (for the decision) before they are emotionally, mentally, spiritually able to do so (which would happen around the Logic stage - but she didn't call it that.) Note that it is not "be allowed to make decisions," but "have to make decisions," even if they think they want to. BTW, she was a pre-school teacher at a Waldorf school for years and years. So...have you implemented this philosophy with your own kids? Does it work in real life? I could not see my strong-willed children going along with not having any choices, even about small matters. One day, when my youngest was 18 months, I put a dress on her that was, apparently, too itchy. She screamed at me that she didn't want it. I realized what the problem was, and changed her into a more comfortable dress. Would you ignore the child's preferences in this case, or would it be different since it deals with their comfort level rather than decision-making ability? I'm really interested in hearing more about the idea that children "shouldn't have to" make decisions. It runs counter to just about all the parenting advice I've ever read, but I can see how children might be calmer if they were kept to a consistent schedule and learned to accept that certain things would be done in a certain way. Do kids end up feeling resentful that they don't have a choice in matters? Or does it really reduce their stress levels when they don't have to make decisions? Does it lead to rigidity in their thinking when they don't get to come up with various solutions to a problem? I'd love to hear any more thoughts you have on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelle in MO Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 No, but it's going in my cart! Throw one in for me, too, wouldja please? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon H in IL Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I operate best when I have set up routines for my day, and practice habits and disciplines that bring order. I think deeply about the choices I want to make into a Habit. Then, once the decision is made, I can relax, and reduce my frustration and stress. It works at work -- why do you think businesses develop policies? Because re-inventing the wheel every day gets to be a drag, not to mention inefficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Already Gone Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Ever since I read The Paradox of Choice I've been somewhat obsessed with this idea. I haven't read the article yet, but I certainly will. Things we've done: We have a very limited number of toys. I meal-plan to the extent that each season we have a 7-day rotation--so that every Monday night, say, we're eating the same meal. We have a pretty detailed rhythm to our days. All this might sound horrifically boring and oppressive, but it's actually quite freeing--and when we genuinely want to be spontaneous, we enjoy it all the more. Birthdays and feast days and holidays make fun exceptions to the above patterns, and seem all the more special without really having to push any sensation envelopes. While I think the Waldorf attitude towards children's choice can be taken to extremes, I also think it's a useful corrective to a lot of thinking out there. I wouldn't say children should have no choice or that their preferences shouldn't be taken into consideration. Young kids can't always tell the difference between one kind of choice and another. For example, "why is it okay to choose what flavor of toothpaste I'll use tonight but not okay to choose whether or not to brush my teeth?" In my house, with my kids, reducing choice has made everything flow more easily for everyone (perhaps even especially my "strong-willed" one). We tried the "give him choices" strategy, and honestly, it really seemed to backfire. Two resources for those interested in this topic as it applies to children: Simplicity Parenting, which comes from a Waldorf perspective but is not doctrinaire, and Charlotte Mason's writings on habit. Must. . . stop. . .self. . . from. . .writing. . .essay. . . :001_smile:. I'll do the responsible thing and read the article before posting any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDmom Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Meal planning. Getting it all done at once so I'm not staring into the fridge in the afternoon thinking, "Okay, now what?" when I'm already tired and worn down. ... I do meal planning, but I really hate doing it. I procrastinate as long as possible. I think I must get overwhelmed with too many choices when planning meals! And then I avoid thinking about making dinner all day long so when it's 5:30 and I discover we were supposed to have a crockpot meal...:banghead: I do want to cry. And order pizza (except I don't actually order pizza--I end up making pancakes). I love the expression in dh's voice when he comes home to see me making pancakes and he says, "Pancakes tonight, huh?" What he really means is, "You must have had a stressful day and totally forgot that you would have to make dinner, right?" You'd think I could remember about dinner. It happens every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDmom Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Things we've done: We have a very limited number of toys. I meal-plan to the extent that each season we have a 7-day rotation--so that every Monday night, say, we're eating the same meal. We have a pretty detailed rhythm to our days. I'm going to have to think about doing something like this. It would probably kill my variety-loving dh, but it would free up my life soo much. Two resources for those interested in this topic as it applies to children: Simplicity Parenting, which comes from a Waldorf perspective but is not doctrinaire, and Charlotte Mason's writings on habit. I'll look into these. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Heaven Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 This article is spot on. I think mothering more than a few children is a vocation that is particularly prone to decision-making fatigue. I tell my husband I gave up on correcting his faults <smile> years ago as I was using all my energy to shape our children. A wise, 55yo-ish homeschool mom (partially in jest) said to me recently (I'm 49yo), "Let the young, energetic homeschool moms run things. It's their turn!" Very good comments, too. Helps me to focus better. Lisa J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mynyel Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Wow... I always tell my dh and kids to ask me in the morning when I can think better... never new that there was a name for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 This article has been so absolutely mind-blowing to me. I have become snappy, crying, etc. this last month and now I know why. Take normal decision making and multiple it by a thousand and you have my current life. I am ADHD and am ready to have a nervous breakdown. WHy? becasue u the last month, I have moved, bought a new house, bought new furniture, bought two cars, started homeschooling my youngest in her high school years, am about to move middle to college and also had to organize her birthday and buy her things for college, bought a laptop, tried to find a church, joined a church school, etc, etc, etc. Throw in medical issues for me and for both of my daughters, two overnight visits to my home by guests, and aaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! I am forwarding this article to my husband and maybe he can relate to my stress a bit. He keeps wondering why I haven't organized the entire house yet. I couldn't. I need less drama first so I will start next week after all houseguests are gone, my daughter is safely at her college, and I can start to organize a regular routine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in CA Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 This article has been so absolutely mind-blowing to me. :iagree: ME TOO!!! Especially the part about food. :blushing: I've tried to explain before, and people interpret my eating patterns as "emotional eating". But...I don't eat when I'm upset. I don't eat when I'm sad, I only overeat when the food is especially good, or when I look around me and am completely overwhelmed! It's when I'm trying to make decisions and am all "decisioned-out" that I have the most trouble. This is also why my laundry room cabinets are so messy and disorganized. I just know that there's decisions to be made about where things *should* go, and a snack sounds much better than facing those choices. So, where do I go from here? :confused: If I start sticking to a pre-set menu plan, that would probably help. What else? Any suggestions to make life less decision-full? :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Well, try to take some of the decision-making *out* of it... Start with some type of pattern. We're trying to do more primal/paleo since it's what fits best with most of ds' allergies. So for me, I say, "I want to serve fish/seafood twice a week, poultry once a week, a ruminant (cow, goat, sheep) once a week, and something else (pork, eggs, another ruminant) once a week." Then I make a list of recipes or meal ideas in each of those categories. When it's time to plan, it's easier to pick one or two from each category and just write them down. You could think about it in terms of categories (pasta, chicken, breakfast-for-dinner, vegetarian, crockpot) or in terms of cuisines (Asian, Mexican, Italian, American grill)... Whatever makes sense with the way your family eats and what would be simplest for you. You can even assign nights. (Mix 'em up after a few weeks if you like.) Monday = Mexican, etc. Then there's less decision in the meal-planning process. Write it all down for the week and post it on the fridge. That way when you go into the kitchen for breakfast, you can glance at the list and see what needs to be done for dinner. As I said, it's much easier for me if I have a deadline and get most of the work done earlier in the day, when I'm less worn down. Lately that means that since we leave for ballet around 3:30, everything has to be done before then. I even cut up lettuce for the salad and put the whole bowl in the fridge around mid-day. All I have to do at dinner time is dress, toss, and hand to one of the kids to take to the table. It's a huge relief at 7 or 8pm to know there are no decisions to be made. Even if there's a little work to be done, the fact that I don't have to *think* about it at that point is huge. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 So...have you implemented this philosophy with your own kids? Does it work in real life? I could not see my strong-willed children going along with not having any choices, even about small matters. One day, when my youngest was 18 months, I put a dress on her that was, apparently, too itchy. She screamed at me that she didn't want it. I realized what the problem was, and changed her into a more comfortable dress. Would you ignore the child's preferences in this case, or would it be different since it deals with their comfort level rather than decision-making ability? I'm really interested in hearing more about the idea that children "shouldn't have to" make decisions. It runs counter to just about all the parenting advice I've ever read, but I can see how children might be calmer if they were kept to a consistent schedule and learned to accept that certain things would be done in a certain way. Do kids end up feeling resentful that they don't have a choice in matters? Or does it really reduce their stress levels when they don't have to make decisions? Does it lead to rigidity in their thinking when they don't get to come up with various solutions to a problem? I'd love to hear any more thoughts you have on the matter. Yes, we did use this, although not as long as MIL would have. It did simplify things. And no, I wouldn't have changed her dress, particularly if she screamed at me. (Although I took comfort into account when buying clothes in the first place, so that particular issue never happened.) I selected their clothes and their meals before school age. The "if you don't like it, you can have PB&J" option didn't exist. I didn't ask them if they wanted to go to the zoo; I announced "We are going to the zoo." I didn't ask them if they wanted to set the table; I told them to set the table. I wasn't raised this way, so I wasn't as consistent as I could/should have been and I could see the results when I wavered. It was less stressful for me because it eliminated a lot of arguments. If you ask them, they can think about it, make a decision, change their mind, argue about it, etc etc. If you just tell them, they will often just comply. It works even better when there are more children. I think it had to be less stressful for them. Think of how you feel after a day of someone asking you a question every 5 minutes. If they get to choose what to wear, what to do first, what to eat for breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner, do you want juice with that, do you want milk, do you want to go to the library, what book should we read next, etc. they will feel that way too. (Besides getting the idea that everything should be as "they" want it.) They are teenagers now - the oldest is almost 20. It certainly didn't stunt their growth in any way. None of them acted particularly resentful at not having choices - they didn't know any different. Their thinking is not rigid. They can certainly come up with a slew of solutions to problems I didn't even know existed. Lack of creativity is not a problem around here. They were certainly capable of making decisions the moment I gave them one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I've tried to explain before, and people interpret my eating patterns as "emotional eating". But...I don't eat when I'm upset. I don't eat when I'm sad, I only overeat when the food is especially good, or when I look around me and am completely overwhelmed! It's when I'm trying to make decisions and am all "decisioned-out" that I have the most trouble. This is also why my laundry room cabinets are so messy and disorganized. I just know that there's decisions to be made about where things *should* go, and a snack sounds much better than facing those choices. So, where do I go from here? :confused: If I start sticking to a pre-set menu plan, that would probably help. What else? Any suggestions to make life less decision-full? :bigear: A Mother's Rule of Life by Holly Pierrot and Once a Month Cooking If I could stick to both these ideas, I would be able to eliminate 90% of the decisions I had to make! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I can't imagine having to make a lot of decisions over and over. That does sound exhausting. My life is busy enough. 1.) I automate everything possible in our lives: a chart of meals, a schedule, a basic set of clothing for each person, etc. 2.) I teach my children to be responsible, and I make sure that I am always absolutely consistent with them. 3.) I work hard to maintain a great relationship with dh, so that when we have to make major decisions together, it goes well. 4.) When things don't matter, I let others make decisions for me. I say "Surprise me" to many people: the grocery clerk asking whether I want debit or credit, the waitress asking if I want lemon in my water, the bank teller asking how I want my money back. It often makes people feel important and trusted, too, which is a bonus. Life is happier when you just aren't super picky. Also, The whole "children need to make all their own decisions" thing has been pretty new in the past twenty years or so, from what I have seen. I don't buy it, just as I don't buy most new parenting advice. I have raised two mature, competent young ladies (it's too soon to see about the last one yet, he's not done :D) without giving them a lot of arbitrary choices on purpose from a young age. Instead, I give them authentic responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 A Mother's Rule of Life by Holly Pierrot :iagree: This book and Side-Tracked Home executives (and Organizing from the Inside Out) are what allowed me to get my life under control some years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Already Gone Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Okay, read the article and found it utterly fascinating. The connection to food in particular was, as someone above said, mind-blowing. Thanks so much for posting this. There's a RadioLab episode on "Choice" that some of you might find interesting (podcast here, if I got the right link: http://www.radiolab.org/2008/nov/17/). It's been a while since I heard it, but I think that this is the place I first heard about the "seven plus or minus two" idea, according to which we can only hold about seven items in our working memory and having to choose between anything more overwhelms us. Funny, I just wikipedia'ed this to make sure I had it right and the article there is claiming that actually the number is closer to two or three. Anyway, I mention this because I try to use this principle in reducing choice throughout the day. For example, the kids have a toy closet that has about five bins and a few other miscellaneous toys. They each get to pick one bin out at a time. I don't know if this is a result or not, but when they play with things, they actually play with them, as opposed to strewing them and then getting out something new. Like one of the previous posters, I don't offer food options--I try to make sure that everyone enjoys the meals in our plan (if it's coming up once every week, it's got to be a hit with everyone), but there aren't other options. Someone mentioned limited wardrobes--I do that too, with everyone but my husband, and especially with myself. For a while I had six outfits, all hung on hooks, and I'd just rotate through them (I also have some dress outfits, etc., but we're talking about everyday decisions here), and I'd like to go back to that once I get out of this even more limited maternity wardrobe :). I've also been thinking about this issue with regards to housework. I'm finally, finally developing a pretty solid routine--one that withstands serious setbacks--and one of the huge payoffs of this is that I have removed big chunks of decision making from my day. My morning thought process used to go something like "okay, breakfast is done. Should I start cleaning up now, or should I make a to-do list? Or should I read to the kids? I'll start by putting the milk away. . .oh, right, I need to empty the dishwasher [puts two plates away]. Ack! I was going to make bread today! And I need to thaw the meat for dinner! Where's my tea? Hurm. . .maybe I should start some laundry. . . ". And then (and now I know why) I would get exhausted and plop down and do nothing and feel miserable about it. I am way too excited about this topic and have way too much to say about it. Fortunately, I now have to go make dinner. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 This is a small gem of a thread that I found only because I was trying to locate one of Angela's posts. Abbey, our schedule for the fall looks much like yours and having everything ready to go for dinner by 2pm will save me a lot of frustration. So much to think about it. Thank you all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Jo Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I read this the other day - it made such an impact on me that I actually discussed it with my dh. I have also made up a 4 week rotating menu. We've only been doing it one day :tongue_smilie:but I can already see the benefits of sticking to it. I got out what I needed at lunch yesterday - had supper ready and going on time and it was great. I have today's supper pulled out and I'll just complete it when we get home from Chemistry today. My next plan is to set up the housekeeping so there are not any choices to be made - wish me luck :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Love that article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDmom Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 I went ahead and made up a two-week rotating menu and I already feel a huge burden has lifted. Dh has asked me to expand it to 4 weeks, which won't be any problem. I'm excited about it because cooking familiar meals is so much easier--I don't have to spend most of my time looking at the recipe trying to figure out what comes next, and I will have a good sense (ahead of time) for how much time I need to get dinner on the table. Also, I've got side dishes! I'm thinking that as I get used to having certain side dishes with a meal, I will have an easier time actually making them. Oh, and I will also be able to save my shopping list. I think I have an iPod app that will let me save shopping lists, or maybe I will just type them up and print a new one when I need it. My next goal is to set up a job chart for the kids, along with a set time for cleaning, and then set up a daily chore rotation for my own self... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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