I saw something today that broke my heart

[WishboneDawn]

I'm with Grover on this one. I see nothing wrong with leaving my children strapped in their carseats while I pay for gas, or run in the post office. I just don't live my life in fear of my kids being carjacked. Now, shopping in a grocery store? No. But running an errand that takes less than 5 minutes in the middle of the day in a busy place, I see no issue. Now a screaming child in the middle of the night like the OP said is a different story.

 

:iagree:

[Ginevra]

In this particular situation he was in more danger staying in the shop. I was not able to move both him and the trolley with is baby sister in it, and he was in danger of bringing the trolley over on himself. He was also attempting to run off alone into the car park, and I was not able to hold both him and the trolley safely. I believe at that time it was the best choice I could make... obviously I weighed up my options and knew that it would only be for a minute or two, the weather was not such that he would be in danger for that short time, he was restrained in the car and could be seen the whole time. Hysteria over what *could* happen but almost certainly won't seems to control some people. I'm quite happy with the decision I made that day, and I do not believe it endangered him in any way. If these fears are real for you, I'm sure glad I live in a part of the world where they are not reality for me.

 

I agree with this part of what you posted, though I would not consider using the solution you utilized. I was just reading about how amazingly unlikely carjackings and kidnappings and the like actually are and it was something of a lightbulb going off. Yes, terrible things happen and - for sure, I know - if something terrible has happened to you, the world feels very risky. But in terms of actual statistics? Carjackers driving away with the baby while you pay for gas are about as probable as being killed by a falling tree limb while you sit on your sofa.

 

And can I just say, I'm not sure if you're a Brit or what, but I like reading your "trolley" and "boot" regionalisms. :D

[Coffeetime]

But you don't know the full story - you're guessing it may have been for an extended period, but you don't know. I have done this with my own DS - we got to the checkout and he simply would not do as he was told (running off, taking things of shelves, screaming, arguing). He was warned and did not listen so I asked the checkout person to keep ringing things up and I'd be back shortly. I carried him out of the shop and locked him in the car (right in front of the shop) and went back in, paid and then went back out.

 

This was my first thought, too. If she did leave him it the car while she went in and shopped- completely unacceptable. However, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion without knowing the full story.

[Slartibartfast]

For all of those who would have dialed 911 without even asking the mom....

Might I ask that you keep in mind that HS'ers are accused of child abuse all the time by people who have no idea what is really going on???

 

For all anyone knows, this kid was in the car for 5 minutes. And it may be August, but it was dark out (9:30pm), and if the car had been a/c'd before, it wouldn't have heated up quickly at all.

 

Please - don't be so quick to judge and call the cops. Once the cops and CPS get involved, it can be a nightmare for perfectly good parents.

 

I don't know where you live but I live in a large city I am not about to get confrontational when my kids are with me.

[akmommy]

As a teen I babysat for a woman who left her toddler in her truck while she went to pick up her pay check. She left the truck running because it was winter and the truck caught fire. Thankfully someone in the parking lot saw the truck on fire, and the story had a happy ending.

 

No, there is never a justifiable reason to leave a small child alone in a car!! Just way too many things that can happen in that "minute" you are away.

[lionfamily1999]

As a teen I babysat for a woman who left her toddler in her truck while she went to pick up her pay check. She left the truck running because it was winter and the truck caught fire. Thankfully someone in the parking lot saw the truck on fire, and the story had a happy ending.

 

No, there is never a justifiable reason to leave a small child alone in a car!! Just way too many things that can happen in that "minute" you are away.

The same can be said for an minute you take your eyes off your child. Things can happen inside your own home. Things can happen while you're wearing your baby, babies have suffocated inside the carriers their parents were wearing. Any idea that your children are safe, even while you are staring at them in the face, is an illusion. They can be unwittingly bit by a bat and catch rabies, thank you hive for teaching me this. There were stories two years ago about children being killed while sitting in their parents' shopping carts. No where is safe, even with Mom's eyes glued to their sweet little faces.

 

I mean, if we're going for full blown paranoia, might as well embrace it, right?

[choirfarm]

This must not have happened in Texas. It was still 97 degrees here at 10 pm last night. Someone in a car would probably die of heatstroke in 10 minutes here right now.

 

Christine

[lionfamily1999]

This must not have happened in Texas. It was still 97 degrees here at 10 pm last night. Someone in a car would probably die of heatstroke in 10 minutes here right now.

 

Christine

On a side note, I'm so sorry about the weather out there :( I know it's not my fault, but ya know... condolences and all that.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

My children are 7 & 8 and I can't imagine leaving them like that. Isn't that against the law pretty much everywhere?

[RahRah]

My children are 7 & 8 and I can't imagine leaving them like that. Isn't that against the law pretty much everywhere?

 

Nope.

[Princess Peach]

I never leave my kids alone in the car, even now that I have a 12 year old.

 

But when they were younger, yeah, it was extremely inconvenient to lug 3 small children into the PO or gas station or store for a five minute errand but I did it or I didn't do the errand. Parenting is inconvenient, but it's not about me.

[Princess Peach]

My children are 7 & 8 and I can't imagine leaving them like that. Isn't that against the law pretty much everywhere?

 

 

http://www.harrisonshope.org/legislation.html

 

This link has a map showing states that have legislation on the books.

[jenncslp]

I am shocked :scared: at the number of people who wouldn't intervene and do something on the child's behalf! I would most definitely take the license plate number and call the police. If you saw the mother come out with groceries alone, you know that the child has been in the car. It's not okay! Let them at least deal with a CPS investigation, at least that might make them think twice about leaving their kiddo alone again.

[WishboneDawn]

Mine are 13 and 9 and now regularly get left in the car for short periods and they have for a few years. If my son was the 13 year old I don't think that would be the case. I don't leave them in a car on a hot day though, not that that has been an issue this summer in Nova Scotia where overcast and rainy days seems to be the norm.:tongue_smilie:

 

Most of the dangers involved with cars are dangers with much younger children. At 10 my daughter had the maturity to deal with those. There's always the abduction threat but that's a very small risk and always present. If I let the kids walk alone to the neighbour's the risk is there. If I let them walk alone from the grocery store to the farm store (I'm in a rural area) the risk is there. Leaving them in a locked car for 15 minutes is probably less of a risk then the other two.

 

All that said I would never leave either alone in a running car. My daughter would kill me for wasting the gas.

[lionfamily1999]

I am shocked :scared: at the number of people who wouldn't intervene and do something on the child's behalf! I would most definitely take the license plate number and call the police. If you saw the mother come out with groceries alone, you know that the child has been in the car. It's not okay! Let them at least deal with a CPS investigation, at least that might make them think twice about leaving their kiddo alone again.

Some people don't like to assume they know the whole story.

[Ginevra]

The same can be said for an minute you take your eyes off your child. Things can happen inside your own home. Things can happen while you're wearing your baby, babies have suffocated inside the carriers their parents were wearing. Any idea that your children are safe, even while you are staring at them in the face, is an illusion. They can be unwittingly bit by a bat and catch rabies, thank you hive for teaching me this. There were stories two years ago about children being killed while sitting in their parents' shopping carts. No where is safe, even with Mom's eyes glued to their sweet little faces.

 

I mean, if we're going for full blown paranoia, might as well embrace it, right?

 

:iagree: The interesting thing is that most of us (myself included) don't fear things in proportion to the risk. Pretty much every day, I participate in something that is the leading cause of accidental death to children (drive in a car). All summer, I take this amazing risk by driving them to the pool, where I then potentially expose them to the second leading cause of accidental death to children (drowning). It doesn't *feel* risky, but statistically, that is what is more likely to kill them.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

I looked across and it appeared that the child, who looked to be about 5 or thereabouts, was alone in the car.

 

But do you *know* the child was alone? Maybe there was an older sibling who was slouched down in the front seat because he was so embarrassed. Maybe the kid's aunt sat with him in the car and as soon as the mom walked out of the store, she went in to finish her shopping. Maybe the mom ran into a friend in the parking lot and *that* person was sitting in the next car over watching the child so mom could go back in and finish her shopping.

 

There are *so* many reasonable senarios that there is no way I would let this situation upset me so much.

[Hedgehog]

There are *so* many reasonable senarios that there is no way I would let this situation upset me so much.

 

Yes, there are. There are also some terrible scenarios which would also fit what I saw last night. I'm glad you are able to prevent yourself from being as upset as I was when you see a child almost choking on their crying, hoarse and distraught. For me, it's a horrible memory to have.

 

It wasn't that I definitely concluded that the child in the car was at risk; every scenario that people have posted is quite possible, and I sincerely hope that it wasn't as bad as it looked. I think I've already said that before.

 

However, I've worked as a counsellor, and as a breastfeeding support worker alongside district nurses, midwives, and health visitors, and I've seen a broad spectrum of parenting which included the attitude that it is perfectly acceptable to punish a child by leaving them alone in a dark place for a half hour or more. And yes, I'm talking about preschoolers. As I said in my OP, I consider myself to be a strict parent, but this doesn't even come on my radar as being an acceptable way to deal with a child who is misbehaving.

 

The issue of contacting the police or CPS (Social Services in the UK) is a very sticky one. Frankly, there are times when they do more harm than good. I am of the opinion that it is much better to try and talk to the parent(s) first - if possible - and only making that phone call to the police/CPS as a last resort, when you are really sure there are valid reasons for doing so.

 

Anyway - thanks all for your thoughts. I am getting over it, slowly.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

I'm glad you are able to prevent yourself from being as upset as I was when you see a child almost choking on their crying, hoarse and distraught.

 

Yes, I am, because sometimes kids are "choking on their crying, hoarse and distraught" because they are throwing a plain, old-fashioned temper tantrum.

 

And I'm not unfeeling or uncaring. If I were in your shoes, I'd feel bad for the kid, I'd wonder why his mom had him out that late, but I wouldn't be so quick to lay blame on the mom and accuse her of abandoning him and putting him in danger.

 

If I *knew* that she had done what you *think* she did, I would call the police.

[SonshineLearner]

I've called the cops on parents with their children in the car, before. In front of the house, while you grab your purse on the table... one thing. Leaving them alone in a car, at a store at 5... nope. I live in a VERY safe spot, and think I may have left my oldest at 9 or 10 when she wanted to stay behind. Maybe to grab milk or something. My son is 8 and he was just asking me when he could walk the mile to gma's. I said... maybe 10 or 11. But, when I think about it, kids walk all the way to school by themselves, and not many people talk about that... unless something horrible happens :(

[lionfamily1999]

:iagree: The interesting thing is that most of us (myself included) don't fear things in proportion to the risk. Pretty much every day, I participate in something that is the leading cause of accidental death to children (drive in a car). All summer, I take this amazing risk by driving them to the pool, where I then potentially expose them to the second leading cause of accidental death to children (drowning). It doesn't *feel* risky, but statistically, that is what is more likely to kill them.

I let them stay with relatives (high risk of being abused), I'm married to a different man than my dd's biological father (high risk of him abusing her), I even leave them alone together (egads).

 

Sometimes I feel like the lady from A Series of Unfortunate Events when I look around my house... don't stand too close to the fridge, it could fall over and squash you like a bug. Don't close the window hard, it could shatter into a million pieces and shred you. Don't move to fast, you fall and rug burn your skin off.

 

We talk about parents taking risks that we consider unthinkable (their children play OUTSIDE :shudders:) without considering the risks we take (co-sleeping).

[unsinkable]

I've called the cops on parents with their children in the car, before. In front of the house, while you grab your purse on the table... one thing. Leaving them alone in a car, at a store at 5... nope. I live in a VERY safe spot, and think I may have left my oldest at 9 or 10 when she wanted to stay behind. Maybe to grab milk or something. My son is 8 and he was just asking me when he could walk the mile to gma's. I said... maybe 10 or 11. But, when I think about it, kids walk all the way to school by themselves, and not many people talk about that... unless something horrible happens :(

 

It is the same thing.

 

Anything that can happen at the grocery store can happen in front of your house.

 

If you leave your kids, you leave your kids.

 

I am not saying it is right or wrong. I am saying that people drawn their own line and say what they do is OK but over their line is not OK. It is not logical.

[lionfamily1999]

It is the same thing.

 

Anything that can happen at the grocery store can happen in front of your house.

 

If you leave your kids, you leave your kids.

 

I am not saying it is right or wrong. I am saying that people drawn their own line and say what they do is OK but over their line is not OK. It is not logical.

:iagree: I think owning a car that makes it so that you cannot hope to see small children behind you is grossly dangerous... so I don't own one. I do not go around judging people that do, I'm sure they weighed their options and chose what seemed best to them.

[Hannah C.]

If I walked by a car and noticed that there were children in it, I would probably look closer. If I didn't see someone who I thought was at least a teenager in the car with them, I would be calling 911. Here in TX, that means the police will show up and talk to the parents. Then again - I'm in TX. Leaving a child in a car alone is simply not safe. If you turn the car off, the temperature rises crazy high crazy fast. If you leave the car on, the child could end up making the car move. Not a risk I would take. Plus, it's illegal.

 

If I walked by a car and noticed that the parent was there and it was a tense situation between the parent and child, I don't know what I would do. Probably wouldn't do anything, but it would be painful. Hopefully what happened in this situation was something where the child was only in the car for a few minutes, and not for the mom's entire shopping trip.

[lauraeden]

Probably illegal as well.

[Grover]

And can I just say, I'm not sure if you're a Brit or what, but I like reading your "trolley" and "boot" regionalisms. :D

 

lol, sorry "trundler" or is it cart? and, um, trunk (that one's just weird... elephants have trunks, cars do not ;) )

 

Another cultural difference that has struck me in reading this thread - I've been reading about all these people who leave their car running and thinking WTF, why would you do that? Then finally clicked that it was to keep the air conditioner going. Most people don't have air con in their cars here, I don't.

[phathui5]

Even for one minute is too long for me. Inexcusable behavior on the parents part.

 

I would have called 911 and given them the cars license plate number.

 

Really? One minute unattended in a locked car?

[Pretty in Pink]

Yes, there are. There are also some terrible scenarios which would also fit what I saw last night. I'm glad you are able to prevent yourself from being as upset as I was when you see a child almost choking on their crying, hoarse and distraught. For me, it's a horrible memory to have.

 

My toddler brought himself to this point yesterday while riding in our vehicle because he was thirsty, began crying for a drink, realized his eyes were 'dirty' (which means they had tears in them, due to his crying over the drink), and he was absolutely distraught over the whole thing. Hoarse. Coughing and sputtering on his own tears.

 

It sounds like you aren't really even sure that the child was left alone in the vehicle. I wouldn't get that upset about it. If you knew the child was alone, that is a different story. But you don't know.