Am I overreacting....hurt by friends. (looong)

[kalanamak]

I have pretty thick skin. I toodle along on my own much of the time, but what friends I have are important to me.

 

This couple had a baby around the time we did. As the children grew we did more things together. They have a lot more money than us, have a housekeeper and a nanny, both work a lot, etc. but they have been gracious about having kiddo and hubby over to play out back with their two kids on their nice equipment. Hubby has done some favours (he is a carpenter and skilled with his hands). They are bright and funny and a pleasure to be around.

 

I have let our difference of child rearing go over me. I have never corrected or mentioned things that raised my eyebrow, like putting a teeny 3 year old and a teeny, tiny 5 year old in booster seats (with the seat part only) I'd only put my 7 or 8 year old in (I keep mine in a LATCH seat with belt guide and kept him in the harness until he was too huge). I just told hubby to stick our LATCH seat in their van when they all loaded in together to go somewhere. (I think they did boosters because they needed 8...2 for each of their cars, 2 for GM, 2 in nanny's car).

 

After a few years of GM being funny, we finally figured out she had drug and alcohol problems. They hadn't told us. This woman sometimes watched all the kids. I told hubby simply to never leave our son alone with her, was very grateful nothing had happened, and while I wish they HAD told me, I figured it was a pretty typical "shame silence", and let it go.

 

GM had a little dog. Dog bit son, hubby and me repeatedly. NEver broke skin, but did get my son on the cheek once (also bit her grandkids, too). I told hubby to double check dog was in kennel and to just leave if GM wouldn't put him in (these bites were at the boy's house, not GM....she visited a lot).

 

They park the kids in front of the TV with powerrangers etc. I told hubby that went the outside play was over and the TV was cranked up, just thank them and toodle on home. I could go on....

 

Never did I make a peep about these things, but coped with them on "our end". People have differences.

 

Now then, hubby had begun to take the boys on hikes and trips to the beach (not on the open ocean kind of beach). Nanny usually dropped the child off. Sometimes he came over and played at our house. Hubby has been with our child for over 10 waking hours a day since birth, is a SAHfather, and they do all kinds of things together. Kiddo has had minimal scrapes (one lip, one on side, and two black toenails from things he dropped...that is it for injury). The little chum has never been injured with us. He is tiny and hubby takes that into consideration, but they do do "boy" things (he doesn't get lots of boy things at home). Recently, hubby took the kids to the beach and the Coast Guard was doing dummy rescues just offshore. The Puget Sound was still, the beach had some people watching the CG, and hubby put his three seater ocean-going kayak in the water and he and the two boys paddled gently up and down the beach watching the CG, up to 20 feet from shore for 15 or 20 minutes. Hubby has spent 1000's of hours on the water from age 5 (he was a commercial fisherman and son of, too).

 

Next we get an email stating that their child could have been killed if the kayak capsized, that hubby doesn't think through his actions and that their kid can only come visit if one of them or the (dingy) nanny accompanies (this will not take place often...they are rarely around). My presence is not sufficient to make a visit safe....not that I was there on the beach.

 

I feel insulted and wonder what our next "misstep" might be. They didn't come look at the huge, stable boat, or even ask about the situation. I know we will not see as much of the boy, but I feel a little like just backing away completely. What would you do? I would be polite and pleasant but "busy" any time they would call (of course, they may never call again...).

 

PS. Hubby was more hurt than I, but is willing to try to do whatever they want as the boys are so fond of each other.

[Robin in Tx]

Goodness! That was a pretty harsh thing to say in an email!

 

First off, who is GM? Did I miss something... is she the wife?

How did they find out about the kayak? Were they possibly painted the wrong picture?

 

I'm hesitant to say what's best without know some of this info, but part of me says that first you need to sleep on this a day or so, then you need to draft a response to the email, and then you need to sleep on it for another day or so before sending it. In the response, I would be nothing but nice and concillatory... explain what the situation really was, that you feel perhaps she got the wrong impression and that you wanted to assure you that you love their son and that you would NEVER EVER do anything to compromise his safety. Not ever. And that you are very, very sorry if you inadvertently did something that made them feel uncomfortable with their child being in your care. Say you understand how they feel, and that you would never want your child to be in an unsafe environment, either. And if she doesn't calm down and back off what she said, you probably need to walk away from this friendship for now... it might be the addiction speaking right now, and you need to stay away from it.

 

Good luck with this... I can't imagine how much it must have hurt to get slap like that. I have no doubt that you and your husband are extremely careful and more than trustworthy. This sounds like a problem on her end... either she jumped to conclusions or she was in an altered state.

 

((kalanamak)) So sorry...

[Unicorn.]

I reallly don't know what to say. Part of me thinks that yeah, I'd back off, because they may freak out if the kid gets a scratch next time. It could be though, that they may calm down, and forget about it later. I would definitely set up firm boundaries w/ them on what activities are allowed when the boys are together. ((((K))))

[Unicorn.]

I think GM is grandma. This is really good advice, especially not sending the reply right away. nt

[BamaTanya]

:grouphug:

I'm sorry. When you have been so careful, too. I think I would give it a couple of days to settle before addressing it. With an e-mail, it's difficult to tell what the emotional state of the sender might be . . .

Is it possible this was a temporary over-reaction?

Tell your dh we know he was taking care of the dc!

[Kate CA]

Goodness! That was a pretty harsh thing to say in an email!

 

First off, who is GM? Did I miss something... is she the wife?

How did they find out about the kayak? Were they possibly painted the wrong picture?

 

I'm hesitant to say what's best without know some of this info, but part of me says that first you need to sleep on this a day or so, then you need to draft a response to the email, and then you need to sleep on it for another day or so before sending it. In the response, I would be nothing but nice and concillatory... explain what the situation really was, that you feel perhaps she got the wrong impression and that you wanted to assure you that you love their son and that you would NEVER EVER do anything to compromise his safety. Not ever. And that you are very, very sorry if you inadvertently did something that made them feel uncomfortable with their child being in your care. Say you understand how they feel, and that you would never want your child to be in an unsafe environment, either. And if she doesn't calm down and back off what she said, you probably need to walk away from this friendship for now... it might be the addiction speaking right now, and you need to stay away from it.

 

Good luck with this... I can't imagine how much it must have hurt to get slap like that. I have no doubt that you and your husband are extremely careful and more than trustworthy. This sounds like a problem on her end... either she jumped to conclusions or she was in an altered state.

 

((kalanamak)) So sorry...

 

Robin's advice is SO good there is nothing more to say. :)

[kalanamak]

Goodness! That was a pretty harsh thing to say in an email!

 

First off, who is GM? Did I miss something... is she the wife?

How did they find out about the kayak? Were they possibly painted the wrong picture?

 

I'm hesitant to say what's best without know some of this info, but part of me says that first you need to sleep on this a day or so, then you need to draft a response to the email, and then you need to sleep on it for another day or so before sending it. In the response, I would be nothing but nice and concillatory... explain what the situation really was, that you feel perhaps she got the wrong impression and that you wanted to assure you that you love their son and that you would NEVER EVER do anything to compromise his safety. Not ever. And that you are very, very sorry if you inadvertently did something that made them feel uncomfortable with their child being in your care. Say you understand how they feel, and that you would never want your child to be in an unsafe environment, either. And if she doesn't calm down and back off what she said, you probably need to walk away from this friendship for now... it might be the addiction speaking right now, and you need to stay away from it.

 

 

GM is grandmother, she was the one with Rx drug and alcohol problems and she recently passed out, struck her head and died.

 

I believe hubby told the nanny, on returning the boy, what they did. Nanny is "distracted" and yakky (and her marriage is shakey).

 

I have slept on this for 3 days, and wrote back a "I'm so sorry and my husband is mortified" note, explaining how perfect the conditions were, what an ocean-going kayak is like, and that he has kayaked rivers, sailed the oceans, knows Puget Sound like the back of his hand, and that this was safer than driving on I-5. Dad, who was the one who emailed me, was conversational in reply, like nothing had happened.

Actually, he didn't say killed. He said he didn't think hubby would be able to "save both boys" if it capsized.

 

I guess I feel like they think it fine for their kids and mine to be around a nanny who fights with her hubby around them, a troubled GM and her nippy dog, on booster seats, but we are not safe enough for them. If the shoe were on the other foot, I'd have simply not had my son go on outings...I wouldn't have announced it. I thought them better than this.

[Amy in Orlando]

Ugh, Kalanamak. As much as I hate to suggest it, I recommend distancing yourself from these people. It happens and it's hard, but your options are pretty slim at this point. I'm so sorry, this kind of thing is so hard for everyone involved. (((())))

[Karen sn]

They don't really sound like friends.

You don't describe them as such and they don't react to you as such.

They sound more like your children's friends' parents.

 

When the safety of your kid is at stake sometimes you have to bow out of the rat race.

Seriously - she was never worried about her pill poppin' alcoholic mama's dog? Even though he bit repeatedly? But your dh MIGHT capsize the boat 20 FEET FROM THE COAST GUARD in calm water and all the kids might die?

 

Ummmmm....I think some people overreact about stupid stuff so they can feel better about their own apathy.

 

I wouldn't feel safe myself over there at her house. Small dogs can be mean.

[asta]

In addition:

 

The fact that the father e-mailed rather than called tells me that he wanted to have a record of the conversation.

 

If anything were to ever happen (anything - not only a fatality) to this child while he were with you or your husband, you would probably be facing a lawsuit so fast it would make your head spin.

 

Move away from these people quickly, and with purpose.

 

 

asta

[Danestress]

If you love them and want the friendship to survive this, I think you have to take a few steps back. People are going to differ about safety issues. Women here who I think are probably marvellous parents have very different ideas about what is safe and what isn't.

 

If I took my own five year olds out on that kayak (or a similar activity, and I tend to be the one who would do that) my husband would be saying, "You did what?" He's just a lot more protective than I am. We don't always see eye to eye and he worries a fair amount when I take the boys camping. So even parents can disagree very strongly about what is safe and what isn't. Once I wanted to take my boys on a trail ride (on horses) and he didn't want me to. To him, horses are dangerous. Go figure. I think think that's ridiculous, but they are his children too, and that was out of his comfort zone. I say this just to say that people who love each other and share children can still disagree.

 

And normally very reasonable people can get unreasonable when something seems unsafe. Last year my sister took my children to one of those water parks with the slides. They had a fabulous time. I looked online and could find very little evidence that these places present risk of serious injury. Still, all day I had visions of my children somehow falling off the top of the slide and dying. It's probably never happened in this history of the world, but it still caused me huge stress. I just had to remind myself over and over that my sister loves my kids almost as much as I do and that they are all in God's hands, but I had a seriously irrational fear reaction. I think part of it was that these places are crowded. To me, crowds seem very dangerous. To your friends, water might seem dangerous. Both have an element of truth and also plenty of room for phobic irrationality.

 

I think your friends are entitled to not want their child to have gone out on the water that day and to have expected your husband to at least *ask* them if it would be okay. I would have been surprised when my kids were five if someone took them out on a little adventure like that without clearing it with DH or I, though I would have allowed it and would have been jealous not to be included!

 

It's really the intensity of the email that seems alarming. I can see writing and saying "Wow, Johnny had a great time, but next time could you run it past me first?" But the whole, "My children will never be left with you again" thing seems very harsh and unnecessary. Which is why I ask if you love them and want to maintain the friendship. Because they are making it hard with this tone!

 

So if you love them, I would take a few steps back, think about writing something very soothing and loving - 'love you, love the kids, of course I feel bad this upset you, I would never want to endanger your kid, I understand you have to set the rules about his care that you think are necessary, we felt this was perfectly safe.' And then just sort of see what happens.

 

It's possible that you are just going to grow apart. Maybe they are sort of strident and you never noticed, or maybe this was a strange episode that doesn't reflect how they normally are. If you are starting to feel that you don't really like spending time with them or just think these issues will continue, then this might be a good time to start to put some distance in.

 

On the other hand, people who really really love each other have misunderstandings, say things they don't mean, and get upset - especially where children are concerned.

 

So maybe pray about it, talk about it with your husband, and try to figure out what you really really want in the long run, then respond accordingly.

[Old Dominion Heather]

I think they are overreacting, but I have to say that I would have been very upset if my son had done this activity without my permission. Not so upset that I would have written the email, but I would stil have said something.

 

Now for some background... I can't swim. Not for lack of trying, but as a child I had to be rescued from the pool during the swimming lesson. My ds6 was at a pool party two years ago when he fell in and had to be rescued by his godmother, who jumped in fully clothed to pull him out. I could not have done it.

 

So, I think you may have some legitimate (or irrational)fears coming into play here. That may have provoked them into being rude.

 

I hope you guys get it worked out. It sounds like you all are good friends for the little boy to have.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

I like what Robin had to say. I would only add that I would try to get ahold of the parents or someone who is responsible for the child the next time you want to do something like kayaking again (or whatever activity they might think is unsafe). I think they overreacted, but, it would help them in the future.

[Tammyla]

Reading that makes me feel sad and uncomfortable. I'd be very hesitant to have their children over for liability issues now. My heart would be breaking. I'm sorry they were so hurtful.

[Tammy]

I might react the same way...although I wouldn't send you an email :) Since those kids couldn't swim....I would be a little leary of them going out on the water.....

 

So....I think she reacted too soon with not enough information. I think your dh should go over there....and explain....with all the words Robin said, LOL!

 

I think they will feel much better when your dh explains all of his experience on the water....and the life jackets....(there WERE life jackets, right, LOL)

 

Tammy

[PineFarmMom]

I wouldn't want any of my children riding a kayake on the ocean without my permission and/or my presence no matter how much practice the adult had had. Even with a skilled person, the ocean is a dangerous place.

 

BUT I will say it sounds as if, given the situation with them, that they have overreacted. I agree with the others that you should back off a little and give it time. Just be kind in your responses, and I'd let them make the next move towards getting together.

 

T

[Mekanamom]

GM is grandmother, she was the one with Rx drug and alcohol problems and she recently passed out, struck her head and died.

 

 

 

Not to make up excuses for them... but how recently did GM pass out and die? Maybe they were having belated "Oh, my gosh, what if's" and then generalized it to all their kids' activities.

 

Or the dad has some water "issues" (legitimate or not) and just didn't think before he typed...? I do think he overreacted and could have said what he felt he needed to say more diplomatically.

 

Maybe it's just a case of getting the parents' permission before going anywhere in the future... I hope things smooth out for everyone!

[Jackie in AR]

Was their son in a life jacket?

 

If so, then, yes, they have over-reacted.

 

But I would have OK'ed it with the parents before I took their child out on the water.

[Unicorn.]

I have a question. Were the boys wearing life jackets? I just assumed they were, because we wouldn't allow our dc to be out there w/out lifejackets, but if your dh didn't have them on the kids, I can see why the guy would be mad.

[Aubrey]

I wouldn't want any of my children riding a kayake on the ocean without my permission and/or my presence no matter how much practice the adult had had. Even with a skilled person, the ocean is a dangerous place.

 

BUT I will say it sounds as if, given the situation with them, that they have overreacted. I agree with the others that you should back off a little and give it time. Just be kind in your responses, and I'd let them make the next move towards getting together.

 

T

 

:iagree: I've been thinking about this all night. I don't even like my own dh to take ONE of our dc out on the water. Am I paranoid? Sure I am. But I guess... I guess I feel like w/ my kids, I can be that way. Kwim?

 

That said, though, it does sound like there are other issues w/ these people. If you choose to continue the "friendship"--I'd just recognize that they have boundaries, too. Just as you were surprised that the kayaking would bother them, I'd bet they'd be surprised that the TV-watching, dog-nipping (as they probably see it), GM (!) would bother you.

 

:grouphug:

[nmoira]

You've had some great advice on this thread. The only thing I would do is remind you that you chose to hold your tongue and dealt with things "on your end." They cannot be held responsible for the care you've taken not to hurt their feelings, KWIM? It's hard not to be even angrier at people in those situations, but it is beyond their knowledge and control.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I have a question. Were the boys wearing life jackets? I just assumed they were, because we wouldn't allow our dc to be out there w/out lifejackets, but if your dh didn't have them on the kids, I can see why the guy would be mad.

 

I assume this is true as well. I'm sorry she was abrupt. Perhaps she was frightened.

 

If he didn't use life jackets, or if I had a phobia about water, I know I would be livid. Scared, freaking out, shaking livid. Probably wouldn't have conveyed it so abruptly in an email, but I would absolutely have freaked.

[Mom2legomaniacs]

I assume this is true as well. I'm sorry she was abrupt. Perhaps she was frightened.

 

If he didn't use life jackets, or if I had a phobia about water, I know I would be livid. Scared, freaking out, shaking livid. Probably wouldn't have conveyed it so abruptly in an email, but I would absolutely have freaked.

 

That was my thought too. Perhaps there is some underlying reason for their response to this particular situation. Maybe something happened to one of them around water one time and they have a greater than normal fear about this.

 

I am sorry for your hurt. I hope things turn out well.:grouphug:

[Robin in Tx]

Moira makes a very good point... you can't let the things you've kept penned up escalate your feelings on this, because they are completely unaware of them.

 

I hadn't thought about the life jacket thing, or water phobia, etc... they might deserve the benefit of the doubt in this regard. I think she should have slept on it before writing you, and calmed down a bit and been a little more concerned about how she was coming across. But she didn't, and that is too bad. I do think she has the right to say don't ever take my kid on the water again (just like you have the right to say don't ever take my kid on a car ride again because of your lack of proper car seats). But I don't think she should say that she can't trust you with her kid ever again period. And I think she will regret having said that eventually.

 

Just do the right thing, regardless of what they do, kwim?

 

I'm so sorry she hurt you, especially your husband. Perhaps god is using this to teach you something that will help/protect you in the future. Just try to learn from it and trust that it will all work out in the end.

 

Oh, and if we ever come up that way, tell your husband that I expect him to take us on a guided kayak trip :).

 

Robin

[kalanamak]

I

 

I think they will feel much better when your dh explains all of his experience on the water....and the life jackets....(there WERE life jackets, right, LOL)

Tammy

 

Very excellent life jackets. And the Puget Sound is not "the ocean". There is no surf in many places, and none here. It was lake-like.

 

Their boy was in a lifejacket that holds heads face up out of the water even if you are unconscious. It was our son's last year, and fit this child perfectly. He has used it for frisking in water with his parents along. Our son is very strong swimmer.

 

We realize my husband should have phoned to ask permission. And the tone of the email was less angry and more...punitive. Like we had offended them and they were clearly putting us in our place. I don't think they will change their mind on their rule. We have been aware that they are the shot-callers in our relations, and that once GM died, they have called us very little. We might have been the only friends that really knew her problems, and did ask my husband to help move her once or twice when housing situations didn't work out.

 

They lead a very Martha Stewart-type life, very yuppie, and we do not. Perhaps they want to move on to people who didn't see GM's lifestyle. It got very bad by the end.

 

As to them being surprized about my feelings on drunk GM and nippy dogs, indeed they may be, but I felt I could deal with it on this end and not make a "confrontation" about it. Their attitude seems to be that they feel they have every right to point out their unhappiness without regard to how it might make us feel. I didn't see the point in confronting them with GM. Would they abandon her? Would anything they said make me trust her alone with my son? No....so why rub their face in it? "I think you are co-dependent with your mother and do not think through what would happen if she should drive under the influence or have an alcohol-withdrawal seizure while alone with the kids". She knew this was possible. She and I are both doctors. I even asked her point blank about all these trips to the ER "Does she have a problem or are her health issues a string of bad luck?" I was told "bad luck". Only through helping out with the kids during an overdose did we become aware.

 

I will let hubby decide, and will see them if he asks me, but will just play with the kids once politenesses are exchanged.

 

On to more enlightening things....a weekend at the (real) beach!