Need Advice Re: Teens and Cutting (NO, it's not my DD!)

[astrid]

So I'm up late researching pedigrees and breeding lines, and about a half hour ago, down comes Molly in tears. She confides in me that her music camp tent mate, a girl her age from another town (they didn't know each other previously) has been texting her for about a week or so, and has told Molly that she's "cutting."

 

Apparently Molly has been texting her back, trying to talk her out of it, convince her to tell her parents, get her to stop, cheer her up, everything a 14 year old girl can think of to say. Molly is very worried about her, and came to tell me because she KNEW it was the right thing to do, and even though her friend kept begging her not to tell her parents, Molly said her conscience told her that an adult needed to know. Dh and I told her she did the right thing, and used the opportunity to reinforce communication, etc.

 

Molly is obviously very worried about her friend, and it's an awful big burden for a young teen to carry on her shoulders. I have ZERO experience with this, and as I don't know the girl or her parents other than briefly saying hello at the camp drop-off and again at the concert a week later, I'm kind of at a loss. I feel her parents need to know, but I have NO idea how to go about finding them. Molly says that her friend lives with both mom and dad and has an older brother (who also went to music camp) and is an A student. I know there are confidentiality concerns, but the angle I"m considering is contacting their camp counselor, who is a music teacher in her mid twenties. She'd have the contact info, probably.

 

UGH. It's late, Molly is upset, my brain is shot, and the truth is I just can't think what to do right now.

 

Any thoughts?

 

UGH! An hour ago I was frivolously asking you to vote for a freaking dog! Now I know this horrible info about this teen, and to hell with the dog!

 

Thanks for listening and any advice!

 

astrid

[Joker]

Someone very close to me was a cutter and it was due to past sexual abuse they could not/would not deal with. I would definitely find someone in authority you could tell so they could try to help her. I hope she gets help.:grouphug:

[Bang!Zoom!]

I had the quick thought which was, if a counselor/teacher is contacted, I believe by law they are registered as mandated reporters. This would require them to set something in motion.

 

Once you've done your part, be prepared to never hear another word about it. Whether or not they do or do not follow up, this sort of thing.

 

I'm sorry your daughter has had this experience; but am glad you are communicating about this with each other.

 

You will do the right thing.

[asta]

Cutting isn't about cutting, just like anorexia isn't about food: it is about power over oneself - the ability to feel something, the ability to feel in control of something. Oh, and the endorphin release that accompanies it and momentarily blocks out the mental pain being felt.

 

Many, if not most people look at self-destructive behaviors such as these as "cries for help" when in fact, they're actually not - they're just coping mechanisms. Really bad coping mechanisms, but mechanisms all the same.

 

This young lady is going to have to be open to learning a new set of coping mechanisms for whatever hurts she is dealing with (real and perceived) and whatever mental illnesses she may or may not have (not all people who do this actually are dealing with a bona fide mental illness, believe it or not - some are just "trying to get through something awful").

 

The difficulty with mandatory reporting is that, while yes, she may be reacting to something going on in her home, as she is a minor, barring a court order, she won't be able to be treated medically w/o her parents' consent.

 

This isn't child abuse (it is self abuse), and most likely, the LAST thing that would be helpful would be a 5150 (an involuntary psychiatric hold at a state facility - shudder). There aren't any easy answers. If you knew the parents, that would be one thing, but since you don't, you are left with calling the camp counselor (who does have the information), being as specific as possible, and leaving it up to them. The camp won't want anything to "come back" on them, either, so they'll follow up - trust me.

 

And then leave it alone.

 

JMO. I'm not the professional. JoAnne is.

 

 

a

 

ETA: Prepare yourself for the idea that Molly's "friend" also may be making it all up - sad as that is.

[kalanamak]

 

This isn't child abuse (it is self abuse), and most likely, the LAST thing that would be helpful would be a 5150 (an involuntary psychiatric hold at a state facility - shudder). There aren't any easy answers. If you knew the parents, that would be one thing, but since you don't, you are left with calling the camp counselor (who does have the information), being as specific as possible, and leaving it up to them. The camp won't want anything to "come back" on them, either, so they'll follow up - trust me.

 

And then leave it alone.

 

ETA: Prepare yourself for the idea that Molly's "friend" also may be making it all up - sad as that is.

 

:iagree: "Facilities" are where the kids really learn how to do things to themselves, and the rush is to "get them out" before they learn how to thread straightened staples into the veins in their hands etc. I'm not talking about psychotic people, but "borderlines" who do this for attention.

:grouphug:

[butterflymommy]

A lot of cutters do so because of abuse, if this is the case with the girl, and her parents are the abusive ones, it might be a bad idea to go directly to them. however it is manipulative and unfair (not saying intentionally so) for this girl to be texting your daughter about wanting to cut, then putting your daughter in a position to "play counselor" to her. If this girl really wants help with cutting she needs to find it in a professional context of some kind. But again, because this is almost always a sign of some kind of abuse, it can be very complicated to involve the parents.

[astrid]

Cutting isn't about cutting, just like anorexia isn't about food: it is about power over oneself - the ability to feel something, the ability to feel in control of something. Oh, and the endorphin release that accompanies it and momentarily blocks out the mental pain being felt.

 

Many, if not most people look at self-destructive behaviors such as these as "cries for help" when in fact, they're actually not - they're just coping mechanisms. Really bad coping mechanisms, but mechanisms all the same.

 

This young lady is going to have to be open to learning a new set of coping mechanisms for whatever hurts she is dealing with (real and perceived) and whatever mental illnesses she may or may not have (not all people who do this actually are dealing with a bona fide mental illness, believe it or not - some are just "trying to get through something awful").

 

The difficulty with mandatory reporting is that, while yes, she may be reacting to something going on in her home, as she is a minor, barring a court order, she won't be able to be treated medically w/o her parents' consent.

 

This isn't child abuse (it is self abuse), and most likely, the LAST thing that would be helpful would be a 5150 (an involuntary psychiatric hold at a state facility - shudder). There aren't any easy answers. If you knew the parents, that would be one thing, but since you don't, you are left with calling the camp counselor (who does have the information), being as specific as possible, and leaving it up to them. The camp won't want anything to "come back" on them, either, so they'll follow up - trust me.

 

And then leave it alone.

 

JMO. I'm not the professional. JoAnne is.

 

 

a

 

ETA: Prepare yourself for the idea that Molly's "friend" also may be making it all up - sad as that is.

 

UGH.. I know. I had all these same (bolded) thoughts last night. That's why I was in such a quandry; it's not like she's attempting suicide.

 

OH....I remembered one more detail Molly mentioned. I asked if she saw her arms at camp; did she see any cut marks, etc. Molly said that the girl always wore a hoodie, claiming she "was cold." It was the end of June/early August in Connecticut. Not cold. :001_huh:

 

Anyway, thanks Asta....I think I"ll try and get ahold of the camp counselor. Molly is FB friends with her.

 

astrid

[astrid]

A lot of cutters do so because of abuse, if this is the case with the girl, and her parents are the abusive ones, it might be a bad idea to go directly to them. however it is manipulative and unfair (not saying intentionally so) for this girl to be texting your daughter about wanting to cut, then putting your daughter in a position to "play counselor" to her. If this girl really wants help with cutting she needs to find it in a professional context of some kind. But again, because this is almost always a sign of some kind of abuse, it can be very complicated to involve the parents.

 

Yes, my same thoughts. On one hand I feel badly for the girl and want her to get help, but on the other hand, I'm really angry that poor Molly has been put in the position of having all this on her shoulders and "playing counselor" because she doesn't know what else to do.

 

So upsetting....in so many ways.

 

astrid

[TeacherZee]

I had a friend who tried to kill herself when we were in junior high. Not the same thing but I wanted you to know where I was coming from. Tell Molly she did great in telling you. And please tell the camp councelor hopefully this girl can get some help, whatever her issues are

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Mosaicmind]

So I'm up late researching pedigrees and breeding lines, and about a half hour ago, down comes Molly in tears. She confides in me that her music camp tent mate, a girl her age from another town (they didn't know each other previously) has been texting her for about a week or so, and has told Molly that she's "cutting."

 

Apparently Molly has been texting her back, trying to talk her out of it, convince her to tell her parents, get her to stop, cheer her up, everything a 14 year old girl can think of to say. Molly is very worried about her, and came to tell me because she KNEW it was the right thing to do, and even though her friend kept begging her not to tell her parents, Molly said her conscience told her that an adult needed to know. Dh and I told her she did the right thing, and used the opportunity to reinforce communication, etc.

 

Molly is obviously very worried about her friend, and it's an awful big burden for a young teen to carry on her shoulders. I have ZERO experience with this, and as I don't know the girl or her parents other than briefly saying hello at the camp drop-off and again at the concert a week later, I'm kind of at a loss. I feel her parents need to know, but I have NO idea how to go about finding them. Molly says that her friend lives with both mom and dad and has an older brother (who also went to music camp) and is an A student. I know there are confidentiality concerns, but the angle I"m considering is contacting their camp counselor, who is a music teacher in her mid twenties. She'd have the contact info, probably.

 

UGH. It's late, Molly is upset, my brain is shot, and the truth is I just can't think what to do right now.

 

Any thoughts?

 

UGH! An hour ago I was frivolously asking you to vote for a freaking dog! Now I know this horrible info about this teen, and to hell with the dog!

 

Thanks for listening and any advice!

 

astrid

 

I started cutting about 10 years ago and it was of course not due to just wanting to "cut" iykwim. There were things I was dealing with or should I say not dealing with. The cutting helped me to feel something when I could feel nothing at all and on the other hand it kept me from feeling the negative emotions that I was feeling at times. It's such a convaluted symptom.

 

I guess if I were you, I would ask your dd to invite her friend over and make an opportunity to talk with her. Let her know that you believe she needs to tell her parents and get help and that if you are willing go with her when she tells her parents. Don't shame her or make her feel guilty for doing this. Some cutting involves not doing it where others can see. I was doing this but I have scars on my wrists from cutting that now I wish I didn't have.

[Starr]

The sooner the better for her to get help. A friend of ours was doing this and her issues seemed small to those around her but not to her.

[astrid]

I guess if I were you, I would ask your dd to invite her friend over and make an opportunity to talk with her. Let her know that you believe she needs to tell her parents and get help and that if you are willing go with her when she tells her parents.

 

Hmm...I don't know. This girl was Molly's bunk mate in camp for a week (June 24-July 1) and lives in a different part of the state. They didn't know each other before camp and haven't seen each other since, just texting and FB'ing and Skyping and whatever. We don't know her or her parents. That's part of what makes this so tricky.....

 

Thanks for the info and suggestion, though..

 

astrid

[Bang!Zoom!]

Have you thought about their "friendship" and contact in the future? Is your daughter expressing wanting to end it or continue speaking with her?

 

It is a bit early perhaps to consider, but it may come up soon as you work through this together.

[astrid]

Have you thought about their "friendship" and contact in the future? Is your daughter expressing wanting to end it or continue speaking with her?

 

It is a bit early perhaps to consider, but it may come up soon as you work through this together.

 

Yes, dh and I talked about that with Molly. As far as I can tell, Molly seems more than a little freaked out by this, and gets the sense that this kid is way, WAY out of her league. For example, Molly said the girl once texted her that she "just sucked down two beers" which made Molly go :eek: because we don't drink, no one in our family really drinks, and none of her friends IRL do. Now, having taught middle school for many years, I'm fully aware that the "beer" comment could have been tossed out for shock effect and be totally untrue. But then again it COULD be true. Either way, it's certainly not a friendship Molly is comfortable in, nor are we comfortable with her having.

 

That said, Molly does feel very worried for this girl, and feels as though if she "dumps" her that will make the girl feel bad, which will lead to more cutting, etc. Dh and I are angry that Molly is in the middle of this drama and has had this burden placed on her young shoulders. Molly feels some responsibility to this girl since she has confided in her, and yet she doesn't quite know what to do.

 

I don't think the friendship will really continue as the girl lives an hour from our home, they didn't even know each other before camp, and once school starts again life will move on for them. But at teh same time, I do see Molly's point and share her concern. However, there's also got to be a point at which it's not our burden to bear, KWIM?

 

UGH. Tough situation.

 

astrid

[Bang!Zoom!]

In all trials, there is a treasure.

 

Would this be a good time to really go into the deeper analysis of what a true friend and the nature of friendship is all about?

 

At her young age, perhaps a pro/con list actually written down might help her sort it out perhaps and lead her to a permanent decision of sorts?

 

I would, for myself, want for anyone closure and decision; to move on with no confusion and direct goals. I would wish for relief and reality and healthy choices for my family.

 

I think it's just wonderful your family displays concern and communication in the ways you've illustrated here.

 

I would venture to guess that this is a secret in the other young ones life; something hidden from her parents. There is a very important lesson there for your daughter there also.

[astrid]

Thank you for your kind words--- and your wise counsel. We feel so fortunate that Molly is so very communicative with us. Cutting is something that is so far from Molly's reality until now that we quite agree; the "treasure" here has been the opportunity to have this conversation with Molly, which wouldn't have really come up in our day-to-day lives otherwise, as far as we know. It just saddens us that the impetus is because of this girl's problems.

 

Owning neither a crystal ball to divine the future nor a bubble in which to encase our sweet Molly, I think we'll just continue to put one foot in front of the other and talk it out. I've been reassured through several PM's and posts in this thread that the girl is probably in no imminent danger of suicide, which does ease our minds.

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

astrid

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Yes, dh and I talked about that with Molly. As far as I can tell, Molly seems more than a little freaked out by this, and gets the sense that this kid is way, WAY out of her league. For example, Molly said the girl once texted her that she "just sucked down two beers" which made Molly go :eek: because we don't drink, no one in our family really drinks, and none of her friends IRL do. Now, having taught middle school for many years, I'm fully aware that the "beer" comment could have been tossed out for shock effect and be totally untrue. But then again it COULD be true. Either way, it's certainly not a friendship Molly is comfortable in, nor are we comfortable with her having.

 

That said, Molly does feel very worried for this girl, and feels as though if she "dumps" her that will make the girl feel bad, which will lead to more cutting, etc. Dh and I are angry that Molly is in the middle of this drama and has had this burden placed on her young shoulders. Molly feels some responsibility to this girl since she has confided in her, and yet she doesn't quite know what to do.

 

I don't think the friendship will really continue as the girl lives an hour from our home, they didn't even know each other before camp, and once school starts again life will move on for them. But at teh same time, I do see Molly's point and share her concern. However, there's also got to be a point at which it's not our burden to bear, KWIM?

 

UGH. Tough situation.

 

astrid

 

 

Sorry, since PM'ing you I didn't really think of reading on for the rest of this thread. About the drinking: Our family rarely drinks as well, so that would be shocking for my kids, too. I'm sure you took it as an opportunity to talk about your family's stance on alcohol, which may be no stance at all. Maybe nobody in your family likes it, but, still, an opportunity to discuss healthy coping mechanisms ensued, I'm guessing.

 

About the second part that I bolded: I'm SURE that Molly does feel like "if I dump her it could cause her to cut again and then it would be MY fault!", but that is just emotional blackmail if it DOES turn out that way. While that would be of little concession to your sweet dd, it IS the friend's choice one way or the other.

 

Many of the survivors we work with have been told by their abusers that "if you leave me I will kill myself!" They so rarely do. I tell the women I work with the same thing, "his reaction to YOUR decision to do something healthy for yourself is still the same thing-HIS reaction. You don't own HIS reaction, HE does."

 

Again, I know that all of those words would ring hollow in the face of an actual moment of, "you are not friends with me anymore so here I go cutting again", but if she can think about the truth of this ahead of time and make HER decisions regardless of her friend's actions then....YAY!

 

How wonderful that Molly is learning about boundries and healthy decision making NOW, athough, of course, terrible that it comes with such a difficult situation. :grouphug:

[Joanne]

You've gotten some good feedback. First, you are Molly's mother and will need to parent her through this. You'll need to step up your talks about maladaptive behavior, how and why people seek mental health support. How to be a friend, but not get too caught up emotionally so that you lose your own quality of life. It's a hard life lesson, and one I have every confidence you will teach her in an extraordinary way.

 

To address the general issues of self harm, and especially cutting, asta is correct. It is a coping behavior; it reduces anxiety. You can't solve the issue of cutting by getting rid of the cutting, you need to help the person learn better coping skills.

 

It's a bit of a mis-attribution to assume abuse (sexual, physical, neglect). Cutting emerges from a variety of settings, families, cultures, and socio-economic levels. Yes, a percentage of cutters have been sexually harmed - but a percentage of *non cutting* females have, also.

 

Cutting is often co-morbid with OCD, anxiety, depression and eating disorders.

 

I would not report this to authorities as if it were abuse; it's not. I'd let the camp know, in writing, and ask that they forward the information with the assumption that the parents want to help the child.

[tex-mex]

A lot of cutters do so because of abuse, if this is the case with the girl, and her parents are the abusive ones, it might be a bad idea to go directly to them. however it is manipulative and unfair (not saying intentionally so) for this girl to be texting your daughter about wanting to cut, then putting your daughter in a position to "play counselor" to her. If this girl really wants help with cutting she needs to find it in a professional context of some kind. But again, because this is almost always a sign of some kind of abuse, it can be very complicated to involve the parents.

I disagree.

 

It could be a wide variety of reasons from BDD (Body Dismorphic Disorder - a "subset" of OCD), Bipolar, or even Dermotillomania (another OCD type). I suffer from OCD and Dermotillomania -- when I was younger, the cutting or scarring of my skin helped "calm" the inner turmoil in my head temporarily. Later, meds and CBT really helped.

 

I know of one girl in college who cut her arms for relief from the inner demons. She was later dx'ed Bipolar. She did not come from an abusive home.

 

Look at Disney star, Demi Lovato, who dealt with cutting, depression, anorexia, and after her public meltdown while on tour with the Jonas Brothers went into rehab to be dx'ed as Bipolar.

Edited July 13, 2011 by tex-mex

[tex-mex]

You've gotten some good feedback. First, you are Molly's mother and will need to parent her through this. You'll need to step up your talks about maladaptive behavior, how and why people seek mental health support. How to be a friend, but not get too caught up emotionally so that you lose your own quality of life. It's a hard life lesson, and one I have every confidence you will teach her in an extraordinary way.

 

To address the general issues of self harm, and especially cutting, asta is correct. It is a coping behavior; it reduces anxiety. You can't solve the issue of cutting by getting rid of the cutting, you need to help the person learn better coping skills.

 

It's a bit of a mis-attribution to assume abuse (sexual, physical, neglect). Cutting emerges from a variety of settings, families, cultures, and socio-economic levels. Yes, a percentage of cutters have been sexually harmed - but a percentage of *non cutting* females have, also.

 

Cutting is often co-morbid with OCD, anxiety, depression and eating disorders.

 

I would not report this to authorities as if it were abuse; it's not. I'd let the camp know, in writing, and ask that they forward the information with the assumption that the parents want to help the child.

:iagree::iagree::iagree: