thowell Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 My stepson who just moved back in with us a few months ago, has been denied his diploma because he failed the math portion of the FCAT by 9 points!!! There is nothing he can do except try to take and pass the ACT which he has to take in the morning with no time to prep. We were just told he didn't pass yesterday and graduation is Saturday night. Oh, how I despise the PS!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I'd snag an ACT prep test ASAP & go through it tonight. http://www.actstudent.org/sampletest/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise in Florida Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Yeah, the wonders of high stakes testing. The have to pass the FCAT yet the FCAT is essentially useless as a college entrance test. Duval county (near me) had a story last year where something like 70% of high school graduates (obviously passed the FCAT) who applied to community college needed at least one remedial class. Had he previously taken the ACT or SAT? Do they have a minimum score he will need to meet? Can he take it again in the fall? Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Please don't take this the wrong way... Do you expect the school to award diplomas to people who do not meet the requirements? Or am I missing something here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Well... I'm with tntgoodwin on this. Did you not have an idea that there was a problem before now? I hate that he may not graduate, but if he hasn't made the grade he shouldn't graduate. Will summer school be available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 While I think it's important to have minimum standards, I think it's almost cruel to tell a child at the very last minute that he might not be able to graduate with his class. The timing really bothers me. I remember that the events and things going on surrounding graduation were a very big deal in my school. Everything from who you were going to walk with to the baccalaureate ceremony to ordering your keep sakes, etc. To suddenly pull that from a child is not right. This should have been done months ago when there was time to fix it, or to at least avoid the kid getting ripped from all of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise in Florida Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Well... I'm with tntgoodwin on this. Did you not have an idea that there was a problem before now? I hate that he may not graduate, but if he hasn't made the grade he shouldn't graduate. Will summer school be available? It doesn't work that way with the FCAT. You can take the required courses, earn good grades (I have no idea about the OPs nephew) and still not get your diploma if you do not get the required score on a few days of high stakes testing. It is not related to your coursework (other than the obvious teach to the test). Again I don't know the young man, but there was not necessarily a connection between learning the material and passing the test. Some kids don't test well some do. He would have had some warning because they have junior and senior year to pass the test (i think it is theoretically at the 10th grade level, not sure). I am against the high stakes testing because either your coursework and grades had meaning or they don't. The test itself is flawed, it is content based not ability based and does not connect well with college entrance requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 They certainly should have given him more notice on this test - ridiculous. I also think the FCAT is basically useless. It is also a very poorly written math test, and in my experience, is not so much a test of math skill as a test of "how to take a test skill". It is not strightforward math at all, but many questions that may cause a problem for someone who doesn't think abstractly. That said - he has had since his Sophmore year of high school to pass - and I know they offer a lot of support if the test isn't passed the first try in 10th grade. Whether he accepted the support, or whether the support was any good in his case, hard to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunD Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I think the problem is that they were informed Thursday, and graduation is Saturday. So, two days before he's supposed to get his diploma, he's called up and told "Hey, you didn't pass the FCAT, sorry about that." They've probably already shelled out money for announcements, cap and gown, fees, etc, because the deadlines for those things are way in advance ... but no one can tell him his score until the last minute? Yes, it takes time to send the tests in and grade them, but that's cutting it awfully close. It's especially rude when you're already out all the money for the ceremony and have invited people, planned a party, etc. So if they let you participate you can continue as normal, pretend, and hope you pass the ACT and no one finds out. If they don't you have to explain it to grandma and the nosy parents of classmates at the grocery store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Georgia has a high school graduation test as well. This is what the DOE website says about the assessment: "Students take the graduation tests for the first time in the eleventh grade. The Writing Assessment takes place in the fall, and the GHSGT in English Language Arts, Mathematics, Science, and Social Studies occur in the spring of the eleventh grade. Students who do not pass on the first attempt of the tests have multiple opportunities to receive additional instruction, retest, and qualify for graduation before the spring of the twelfth grade. Students who do not pass all the required tests but have met all other graduation requirements may be eligible for a Certificate of Performance or a Special Education Diploma. Students who have left school with a Certificate of Performance or a Special Education Certificate may return to attempt the graduation test(s) again, as often as necessary to qualify for a high school diploma. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Last year the FCAT scores didn't come out until July. It was a mess. We still haven't gotten my son's scores yet. They are going to be mailed. The whole testing system is ridiculous in the first place. This is just another problem so many others face.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartosunshine Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 We moved away from Florida 4 years ago & my daughter is still trying to get over the trauma of "If you don't pass the FCAT in 3rd grade, you won't be promoted to 4th". She was completely freaked out about it. :grouphug: for your stepson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Please don't take this the wrong way... Do you expect the school to award diplomas to people who do not meet the requirements? Or am I missing something here? The thing is, you can meet all the CLASS requirements, get straight A's on everything, do all the work, and then if you don't get a certain score on a VERY questionable statewide standardized test you don't pass. And you don't find out until 2 days before graduation, and a day before the alternative test. And the test really is questionable. In the past few years there have been issues with grading, issues with the timing, issues with the actual questions, etc. It is stupid. If you passed the class you should graduate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Well... I'm with tntgoodwin on this. Did you not have an idea that there was a problem before now? I hate that he may not graduate, but if he hasn't made the grade he shouldn't graduate. Will summer school be available? He made the grade. He passed the class. He didn't pass a statewide standardized test that may or may not cover what he was taught in class this year. There is no summer school, because he didn't fail a class. He will have A's or whatever grade he earned on his report card, he will have all his credits, but he won't graduate because he didn't pass the dumb standardized test that is highly questionable anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 He made the grade. He passed the class. He didn't pass a statewide standardized test that may or may not cover what he was taught in class this year. There is no summer school, because he didn't fail a class. He will have A's or whatever grade he earned on his report card, he will have all his credits, but he won't graduate because he didn't pass the dumb standardized test that is highly questionable anyway. Could you be more specific about the part of your post I bolded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 The thing is, you can meet all the CLASS requirements, get straight A's on everything, do all the work, and then if you don't get a certain score on a VERY questionable statewide standardized test you don't pass. And you don't find out until 2 days before graduation, and a day before the alternative test. And the test really is questionable. In the past few years there have been issues with grading, issues with the timing, issues with the actual questions, etc. It is stupid. If you passed the class you should graduate. Okay, but the school requirement is that you pass this test, and pass the classes, right? And this was known to him, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 This is terrible. I don't understand how states can be so late with their exit tests. I work for an online school and we often get applications to finish a high school diploma with us because of this. I was reviewing a transcript from Texas recently and I had to call the high school because I questions about the content of some electives. I made the off hand comment to the counselor that the student must have been very close to graduation when he dropped out and she said "he failed the state math exam". That made me so mad, because on his transcript he had Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, and a semester of PreCalc. Why the bleep was he in precalc. What is the content of the exit exam that someone can pass advanced mathematics and fail the state exam. More importantly what is the content of the adv math course--are really the classes they are titled? I would assume that an exit exam is basic math skills and should be given no later than 10th grade, so the student has ample chances to try again. And dang if someone doesn't pass by the end of 11th why isn't there a basic math course to take in 12th grade to help those kids get through it? I was so angry after I finished with the young man's transcripts. Now, I'm angry all over again. How can someone with a half credit of precalc fail a math exit exam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Could you be more specific about the part of your post I bolded? Every year there is a big to do when the testing is done. Independent evaluators end up saying the grading was too hard, or the grading was too easy, or there were mistakes in the grading. etc. They still haven't figured out really how to grade THIS years test even, although they already did. Something usually goes wrong and they end up giving out revised scores a few months later. Basically, even in the younger grades, whether or not a child is promoted to the next grade comes down to how well they did on one test. Even if they had a stomach ache, or their pet died, or whatever....a 3rd grader that got good grades would be held back of they didn't score highly enough. Again, on a test they can't even decide how to grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise in Florida Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Every year there is a big to do when the testing is done. Independent evaluators end up saying the grading was too hard, or the grading was too easy, or there were mistakes in the grading. etc. They still haven't figured out really how to grade THIS years test even, although they already did. Something usually goes wrong and they end up giving out revised scores a few months later. Basically, even in the younger grades, whether or not a child is promoted to the next grade comes down to how well they did on one test. Even if they had a stomach ache, or their pet died, or whatever....a 3rd grader that got good grades would be held back of they didn't score highly enough. Again, on a test they can't even decide how to grade. I do agree about the scoring. Every year, after the start of the new school year, there will be a story in the paper about the 'adjusted/corrected' grades for the schools based on the previous spring's test. The test is simply a measuring tool and should not be used to override the teachers in the classroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I have only been living in Florida for two years, and don't know all that much about the testing situation here. I DO know that test prep takes up waaay too much time in my half-sister's 4th grade class but that's besides the point, right?....LOL Anyway, I think high stakes testing like this is a bit ludicrous. Then again, I am not a big fan of standardized testing unless it's for diagnostic purposes, which clearly this is not. And I didn't realize that about the 3rd grade test! I've seen samples of the test and I didn't realize it was a "pass or be held back" all-or-nothing type thing. I think non-promotion should be based on a LOT more than just one test. IMO, if a child has spent the entire year failing to grasp the material, despite remediation, and there have been conferences with student and parent about the possibility of being held back, then at least the family knows the likelihood. And they know that the child has repeatedly failed to meet standards; it wasn't a one-time thing. That said, the standards for passing the 3rd grade test must be quite low, as I know of two young children here who simply wouldn't have passed otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 How will he get ACT scores back fast enough? Did he pass the FCAT in 10th or 11th grade? (I'm not familiar with FCAT requirements.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 As for the 3rd grade test, a few years back 1/3 of florida 3rd graders didn't pass it. They revised the grading. Who knows what really should have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetMissMagnolia Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 oh man that stinks... :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Ok, thanks for all the support and let me answer some of your questions. He was in private school until mid 11th grade. He had never taken the FCAT because private schools are not required by the state to administer the FCAT. He moved in with his mother the middle of his 11th grade year. He took it once before and passed everything but the math by 12 points. They offered him no extra prep or practice. For his senior year he has taken alot of classes through FLVS and spent very little time on campus, again no prep time. He passed all parts except math by 9 points. He has a 3.0 GPA and has more than the required credits but still no diploma. They did finally agree to let him walk in the ceremony but he will only get a letter of completion not a diploma. We have a ACT prep book but I'm not sure it will be enough with such short notice. To make things worse all he wants to do with life is go in the Army, well no diploma, no Army. If he doesn't pass this ACT he will have to wait until September to take it again. I understand that this isn't something that we as HS have to deal with but for those of you who think he shouldn't graduate think about how you would feel if you had taught your kids for 12 school years, they made good grades and covered and learned all the material and was then denied a diploma unless they passed a state administered test that had nothing to do with what they had been taught. It is just crazy how this is set-up. I will ask if it is ok, anyone who does, please pray for him tonight that God help him pass this test in the morning. His name is Jeffrey and he would really appreciate all the help he can get! Thanks ladies!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cortana Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I am so sorry that this is happening to your stepson. It's not right, I despise state testing. When I see the graduation requirements that our state has, I am so thankful that I graduated back when I did before all this craziness began. If any of it would truly help prepare kids for college or a job, it would be one thing but so precious little of it has anything to do with college or jobs. I'll be praying for him!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 I am so sorry that this is happening to your stepson. It's not right, I despise state testing. When I see the graduation requirements that our state has, I am so thankful that I graduated back when I did before all this craziness began. If any of it would truly help prepare kids for college or a job, it would be one thing but so precious little of it has anything to do with college or jobs. I'll be praying for him!!! thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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