Healthcare Question

[FairProspects]

:confused: If it was going to happen, why hasn't it happened?

 

And if their purpose is to be "charitable" why don't they cover people with pre-existing conditions or congenital illnesses?

[TechWife]

As far as medicare for all? Blech! I can't imagine anything I would like less. My family's healthcare is too important to me to have all control over it given to the government. I already feel as though I have little enough control as it is due to the mentality of many doctors.

 

My parents spent most of their adult lives uninsured. Medicare is the best health insurance they have ever had. They and their doctors make their health care decisions, not the government. It is rare that something is recommended that isn't covered by medicare, very rare. So far, medicare has seen both of them through cancer surgery, one broken hip and one knee replacement, among other smaller illnesses. These are things they never could have afforded before.

[TechWife]

As far as health insurance being so expensive, people are using health insurance to pay for every little thing. It would be like auto insurance that pays for oil changes and adding gas to the tank. Catastrophic insurance (for, say, you get in an accident, or discover you have cancer, or some other chronic illness etc) with a high deductible should be the way to go. You should be able to buy it across state lines. It can be reasonably priced. For your routine care, pay cash.

 

This is such a bad idea. Routine care costs a lot of money and much of it prevents major medical health problems. Insurance that pays for preventative health care saves people a lot of health problems and saves money. Compare the cost of:

- a routine, scheduled MD appointment, asthma medications to an er visit for asthma

- a routine, scheduled MD appointment, the cost of cholesterol lowering drugs & bp drugs to the 911 call (administration, police, paramedics, supplies, ambulance charges) er visit, hospitalization, surgery, rehab and long term care that follows a heart attack

- a routine, scheduled MD appointment, anti-depressant medications or other suitable medications to a 911 call (administration, paramedics, police, supplies, ambulance charges), er visit, potential court costs, short or long term hospitalization in a specialized facility (if a bed is available)

- the anorexia that is caught in a routine, scheduled well child check up at the pediatricians office, resulting outpatient therapy & medical monitoring vs. long term physical and mental health expenses

- the removal of a mole in a scheduled office appointment vs. cancer treatment

- the pap smear (diagnostic) and outpatient surgery if needed vs. the cost of cervical cancer

 

An MD can catch so many things that can not only save you money, but more importantly, can save your life. Many won't be able to cross the threshold of an MD office if they don't have insurance that covers preventative care and sick visits. Would it be fair to the MD's to have them treat people at no charge? I don't think so, yet it happens every day now when people don't pay their bills.

 

The list goes on and on. Many people can't afford these routine treatments without insurance - they aren't cheap!

 

Those who can not afford this basic level of care should get help from churches, charities, and their local community.

What happens when the churches, charities and local communities run out of money? If they have to pick up all of these costs on a routine basis, it will happen quickly!

 

I should not be required to provide money to pay for other people's healthcare.

I don't disagree with this entirely (it would be great if people would elect to donate to the charities you mention above to cover all of the expenses of the uninsured), but to only have major medical insurance will drive costs up, not down. The pool of people that makes up the insured will be sicker (because they can't afford routine care), requiring larger payouts on the part of the insurance company instead of smaller ones, which will in turn drive the cost of major medical insurance up, making it so fewer people could afford it & then fewer people would have access to healthcare, even for major medical expenses. Again, costs would go up to cover the expenses of those who can't pay, resulting in higher insurance premiums. On and on it goes.

 

There is no easy answer here, none at all!

Edited June 11, 2011 by TechWife

[TechWife]

Less federal government involvement. Health share (as in Samaritan Ministries, of which I am a member) programs.

 

Are you aware of the number of charges that Samaritan Ministries will not approve? It's an extremely judgmental process, no different than insurance and in many cases much worse.

[Anita in NC]

Sorry, this is not at all obvious to me. If people who make more money have to pay more into the system for the same amount of coverage that those who make less money get, what makes it different than the way things work today? Now people who pay for insurance pay high rates because costs are high to cover those who don't pay their bills. Why can't someone who earns money keep it?

 

That's the way taxes work now. Someone that earns 100k is going to pay more taxes than someone that makes 25k. They both receive the same services for their taxes.

[tntgoodwin]

This is such a bad idea. Routine care costs a lot of money and much of it prevents major medical health problems. Insurance that pays for preventative health care saves people a lot of health problems and saves money. Compare the cost of:

- a routine, scheduled MD appointment, asthma medications to an er visit for asthma

- a routine, scheduled MD appointment, the cost of cholesterol lowering drugs & bp drugs to the 911 call (administration, police, paramedics, supplies, ambulance charges) er visit, hospitalization, surgery, rehab and long term care that follows a heart attack

- a routine, scheduled MD appointment, anti-depressant medications or other suitable medications to a 911 call (administration, paramedics, police, supplies, ambulance charges), er visit, potential court costs, short or long term hospitalization in a specialized facility (if a bed is available)

- the anorexia that is caught in a routine, scheduled well child check up at the pediatricians office, resulting outpatient therapy & medical monitoring vs. long term physical and mental health expenses

- the removal of a mole in a scheduled office appointment vs. cancer treatment

- the pap smear (diagnostic) and outpatient surgery if needed vs. the cost of cervical cancer

 

An MD can catch so many things that can not only save you money, but more importantly, can save your life. Many won't be able to cross the threshold of an MD office if they don't have insurance that covers preventative care and sick visits. Would it be fair to the MD's to have them treat people at no charge? I don't think so, yet it happens every day now when people don't pay their bills.

 

The list goes on and on. Many people can't afford these routine treatments without insurance - they aren't cheap!

 

What happens when the churches, charities and local communities run out of money? If they have to pick up all of these costs on a routine basis, it will happen quickly!

 

I don't disagree with this entirely (it would be great if people would elect to donate to the charities you mention above to cover all of the expenses of the uninsured), but to only have major medical insurance will drive costs up, not down. The pool of people that makes up the insured will be sicker (because they can't afford routine care), requiring larger payouts on the part of the insurance company instead of smaller ones, which will in turn drive the cost of major medical insurance up, making it so fewer people could afford it & then fewer people would have access to healthcare, even for major medical expenses. Again, costs would go up to cover the expenses of those who can't pay, resulting in higher insurance premiums. On and on it goes.

 

There is no easy answer here, none at all!

 

I get that it isn't cheap, but I addressed that in the other part of my solution...it would involve overhauling our entire economic system.

[Mama Geek]

That's the way taxes work now. Someone that earns 100k is going to pay more taxes than someone that makes 25k. They both receive the same services for their taxes.

 

I know what you are trying to say, but if you are making $100000 you are not getting the same government services as someone making $25000.

[Mrs Mungo]

I know what you are trying to say, but if you are making $100000 you are not getting the same government services as someone making $25000.

 

From the federal government you more or less are. At the local level it might be different.

[cdrumm4448]

Aside from a few millionaires, almost nobody is able to pay for severe medical issues. QUOTE]

 

How exactly do you know what people are able to afford?

[Mrs Mungo]

Aside from a few millionaires, almost nobody is able to pay for severe medical issues.

 

How exactly do you know what people are able to afford?

 

My dh is in the top quintile of wage earners (I didn't look at the exact breakout, but I remember that much). My son's doctors and medications without insurance (provided to us by the federal government as part of our benefits package) would easily cost $1,000 per month. The advair inhaler, alone, is over $200/month without insurance. He's had two hospital stays; one of those was in a civilian hospital. The bill was around $20k for a 6 day stay. We would be hard-pressed to pay for his medical issues out of pocket, it would be a major financial hardship, despite my dh's relatively high income.

 

My son's condition (for now, at least) is relatively mild. Few people could pay for *major* medical issues out of pocket.

[EKS]

 

How exactly do you know what people are able to afford?

 

Do you have any idea what a major illness or injury can cost? Even a low grade millionaire isn't going to be able to afford a catastrophic medical event for long.

Edited June 11, 2011 by EKS

[cdrumm4448]

My friend and her family were recently in Mexico on vacation. The husband got sick. Sick enough to be sent by the resort doctor to the hospital. They wouldn't see him until they had deposited $3,000 with the hospital (they accepted cash, traveler's checks and credit cards). When the "credit" was used up, treatment was halted until another deposit was made. He died there.

 

Our system has its problems, but many, many countries worldwide operate on the above-mentioned system.

[cdrumm4448]

 

Do you have any idea what a major illness or injury can cost?

 

Why no, I live under a rock.

 

No one has any business in another person's healthcare choices. If I am stinking rich or not, whether I choose to have healthcare is no one's business.

 

And more people than you would think could afford a $100,000 medical bill.

 

ETA: To answer the OP's original question, there are no easy answers. Healthcare costs ARE too high, driven up by many factors. You will only create new problems (besides infringing on people's rights) by mandating government healthcare. Whether you like it or not, healthcare is a commodity available for purchase.

Edited June 11, 2011 by cdrumm4448

[Mrs Mungo]

My friend and her family were recently in Mexico on vacation. The husband got sick. Sick enough to be sent by the resort doctor to the hospital. They wouldn't see him until they had deposited $3,000 with the hospital (they accepted cash, traveler's checks and credit cards). When the "credit" was used up, treatment was halted until another deposit was made. He died there.

 

Our system has its problems, but many, many countries worldwide operate on the above-mentioned system.

 

People die in the US due to lack of adequate medical care every day. Sure, they have to save your life. So, you have cystic fibrosis and go to the hospital at death's door. They will get you just well enough to walk out of the hospital and you're on your own until your next episode and/or you die.

 

Your friends couldn't pay more than $3k for a medical emergency, my son's hospital stay was $20k. Yet, your argument is that people *could* pay out of pocket?

[Mrs Mungo]

Why no, I live under a rock.

 

No one has any business in another person's healthcare choices. If I am stinking rich or not, whether I choose to have healthcare is no one's business.

 

And more people than you would think could afford a $100,000 medical bill.

 

And $100k wouldn't begin to cover my sister's 3 year battle with cancer.

[cdrumm4448]

People die in the US due to lack of adequate medical care every day. Sure, they have to save your life. So, you have cystic fibrosis and go to the hospital at death's door. They will get you just well enough to walk out of the hospital and you're on your own until your next episode and/or you die.

 

Your friends couldn't pay more than $3k for a medical emergency, my son's hospital stay was $20k. Yet, your argument is that people *could* pay out of pocket?

 

I never said they couldn't afford the medical care. He happened to die because he was sick and either their treatment wasn't as good as ours or he was too far gone by the time he got to the hospital. They have plenty of money.

 

And many of the people I know could pay out of pocket for large medical expenses.

[EKS]

And many of the people I know could pay out of pocket for large medical expenses.

 

You must know a lot of very affluent people.

[Mrs Mungo]

I never said they couldn't afford the medical care. He happened to die because he was sick and either their treatment wasn't as good as ours or he was too far gone by the time he got to the hospital. They have plenty of money.

 

Why didn't they medivac him back to the US?

 

And many of the people I know could pay out of pocket for large medical expenses.

 

Anecdotal. It's not relevant what the people you know could pay for. What is relevant is how many people could pay from a statistical standpoint.

 

I think we may also be working with a different definition of large medical expense.

[cdrumm4448]

Frankly, I don't like the assumptions being made here. No one knows what's best for someone else. I'm not interested in having anyone's agenda shoved down my throat, again.

 

I'm bowing out of this conversation.

[Whitworth]

 

Are you assuming all current wars are driven by corporate greed or is that a qualifier?

 

Our foreign military bases are not primarily intended to be used to defend those nations. They are used for several purposes: pre-positioning our forces, as staging areas, the hospitals serve soldiers wounded overseas in combat, to build partnerships with our allies, to train and educate our forces overseas, to easily deploy teams for humanitarian missions, to provide rest and recreation to soldiers overseas.

 

Overseas bases house around 10% of our military. That is infrastructure that already exists. How much would it cost to recreate all of those bases in the US?

 

This isn't a logistically feasible or money-saving proposition, imo.

 

Well I would say historically most wars are fought to gain something be it land or resources. That's certainly been the case with the States. If we had won or made a better showing in Vietnam, we would currently have bases there.

 

America still believes in manifest destiny. It started in the middle of our continent and then spread outwards. We invaded Canada twice and failed. We tried again politically after the civil war; the US really wanted upper and lower Canada. We've continued non-stop nasty business in Central America since the 19th century. Now if one holds to the philosophy that it is America's destiny to spread democracy, even if through force, I understand logistically why they would want to have bases around the world.

 

The thing is, I don't know of any other country in the world that has military bases on foreign soil. Certainly no one compares to what we have. Why do we have to police the world?

 

Please understand I'm all for the common soldier. They are vastly underpaid for their labor and deserve far better benefits, education and healthcare then what is currently afforded. I know the bases already exist, but I have no doubt that many could be sold and developed at a profit.

 

Many Americans believe in American exceptionalism, that we a shining city on a hill. I'm just not one of them

Edited June 11, 2011 by Whitworth

[Whitworth]

My son's doctors and medications without insurance (provided to us by the federal government as part of our benefits package) would easily cost $1,000 per month. The advair inhaler, alone, is over $200/month without insurance. He's had two hospital stays; one of those was in a civilian hospital. The bill was around $20k for a 6 day stay. We would be hard-pressed to pay for his medical issues out of pocket, it would be a major financial hardship, despite my dh's relatively high income.

 

My son's condition (for now, at least) is relatively mild. Few people could pay for *major* medical issues out of pocket.

 

My son has asthma as well. I can totally relate to the high bills and the financial hardship.

 

Glad he's doing better! :)

[Mrs Mungo]

Well I would say historically most wars are fought to gain something be it land or resources. That's certainly been the case with the States. If we had won or made a better showing in Vietnam, we would current have bases there.

 

America still believes in manifest destiny. It started in the middle of our continent and then spread outwards. We invaded Canada twice and failed. We tried again politically after the civil war; the US really wanted upper and lower Canada. We've continued non-stop nasty business in Central America since the 19th century. Now if one holds to the philosophy that it is America's destiny to spread democracy, even if through force, I understand logistically why they would want to have bases around the world.

 

The thing is, I don't know of any other country in the world that has military bases on foreign soil. Certainly no one compares to what we have. Why do we have to police the world?

 

Many Americans believe in American exceptionalism, that we a shining city on a hill. I'm just not one of them.

 

Forgive me, I'm rearranging just a bit. I'm not a fan of manifest destiny. Anyone who has been around here any length of time knows it. The US military does a lot more than police the world, including hundreds of humanitarian missions each year.

 

but I have no doubt that many could be sold and developed at a profit.

This is not what happens, at all. I've seen bases close (as in, we were stationed on one that closed). I've also seen closed bases be empty for years and years and create nothing but an eyesore.

 

My son has asthma as well. I can totally relate to the high bills and the financial hardship.

 

Glad he's doing better! :)

 

My son doesn't have asthma, he has a progressive lung disease. But, we don't pay any medical bills thanks to our extremely good insurance coverage.

[Whitworth]

This is not what happens, at all. I've seen bases close (as in, we were stationed on one that closed). I've also seen closed bases be empty for years and years and create nothing but an eyesore.

 

That's a good point. In your experience, what should or can we do with empty bases? If it's not cost effective to close them, are we stuck with them?

[Hannah C.]

I think there are two big differences between auto insurance and health insurance.

1) You can choose not to drive - you can't choose not to live.

2) You have a lot more control over your driving than you do over your health.

 

As health care in the US stands right now, people who can't get health insurance through their jobs (e.g. hourly workers) have to get individual policies, which tend to cover less than group policies and cost as much or more. I can *easily* see why someone would forego spending what for them is a lot of money per month on insurance that isn't even going to do them much good if they do get sick. If you're going to go bankrupt anyway, why not keep the money and spend it now instead of losing all that and going bankrupt?

 

My biggest problem with the individual mandate is that we're now being told we have to buy into the corrupt private health insurance industry. I don't trust the health insurance industry at all.

 

I think we need to go to a single payer system.

[QueenCat]

I can *easily* see why someone would forego spending what for them is a lot of money per month on insurance that isn't even going to do them much good if they do get sick. If you're going to go bankrupt anyway, why not keep the money and spend it now instead of losing all that and going bankrupt?

 

My biggest problem with the individual mandate is that we're now being told we have to buy into the corrupt private health insurance industry. I don't trust the health insurance industry at all.

 

I think we need to go to a single payer system.

 

Many people have good insurance policies that do not cause them to spend a lot of money (or go bankrupt) when they have a major illness or injury.

[shinyhappypeople]

Many people have good insurance policies that do not cause them to spend a lot of money (or go bankrupt) when they have a major illness or injury.

 

IF you can get approved.

[EKS]

Many people have good insurance policies that do not cause them to spend a lot of money (or go bankrupt) when they have a major illness or injury.

 

Are you including individual policies in this? Because my whole experience of the health insurance industry changed when we went from an excellent insurance plan through work to an individual policy for several years. In the last few years we have again had the luxury of having a policy through an employer who places a high priority on health coverage and it makes a *huge* difference.

 

For us to purchase the policy we have through my husband's work now would cost several thousand dollars each month. When we had the individual policy, every year I had to lower our coverage to keep the payments to something we could afford. The last few years we had to drop our prescription coverage. Now, as healthy people having to pay for prescriptions out of pocket wasn't any big deal, but the fear was always there that someone might get a major illness that required expensive drugs to treat.

[WishboneDawn]

The thing is, I don't know of any other country in the world that has military bases on foreign soil.

 

Canada once had a couple in Germany, not too many years ago (10-20?). I think it was mainly used as a base of operations for UN and NATO missions. That was it though.

[AvasMom]

We could start by reducing military spending.

 

1. Pull our troops out of foreign wars driven by corporate greed.

2. We have between 900 and 1000 foreign military bases. Close all of them. Germany and Japan can defend themselves.

3. That being said, let's use that money in paying the average soldier a livable wage and let's bring all VA hospitals into the 21st century.

I’m all for defending America but I am not interested in an American empire. We have the money; we just choose to spend it on other things.

 

#1 and #2 would result in RIF (reduction in forces) which would put thousands of military personnel and their families out on the street in the middle of a recession. Not such a great idea if you are trying to come across as military family friendly.

[Stacy in NJ]

One of the reasons health insurance is so expensive is because most states won't allow insurers to offer catastrophic policies. Doctors, hospitals and other health care providers love that states mandate a certain level of benefits. They get more paying customers from these mandates. But, individuals who want pure insurance - insurance to cover serious medical conditions without all the bells and whistles - are illegal in most states. This drives up the cost of insurance for everyone. Prior to our current system of managed care, major medical policies were the norm. They covered only hospital services for accidents and major health events.

 

Your question is loaded.

 

One could just as easily ask - How would you solve the problem of old people burdening the system? How about sickly babies?

 

Why is the current insurance system fair, where everyone pays in, and those who get sick burden the system and mooch off of the healthy? How about employees burdening their employers with having to pay in? How about those who get health care from work getting benefits tax free that the self-employed are burdened with?

 

How do you account for the insured who burden the system?

 

If insurance were affordable, I imagine quite a few more people would like to get health care and get their sore teeth looked at. Most people want to pay, they just can't afford the market price.

[QueenCat]

IF you can get approved.

 

I realize that, I was just pointing out that having an illness while insured doesn't necessarily make you just as likely to become bankrupt as not having insurance.

[QueenCat]

Are you including individual policies in this? Because my whole experience of the health insurance industry changed when we went from an excellent insurance plan through work to an individual policy for several years. In the last few years we have again had the luxury of having a policy through an employer who places a high priority on health coverage and it makes a *huge* difference.

 

For us to purchase the policy we have through my husband's work now would cost several thousand dollars each month. When we had the individual policy, every year I had to lower our coverage to keep the payments to something we could afford. The last few years we had to drop our prescription coverage. Now, as healthy people having to pay for prescriptions out of pocket wasn't any big deal, but the fear was always there that someone might get a major illness that required expensive drugs to treat.

 

I was solely referring to the poster's thought that one is just as likely to go bankrupt with insurance as without, as it seemed as if she was lumping all insurance policies in the same category. Comment was strictly in response to her post, not all health insurance or types of health insurance. I was careful to not use words like "all" in my comment.

[Mrs Mungo]

I was solely referring to the poster's thought that one is just as likely to go bankrupt with insurance as without, as it seemed as if she was lumping all insurance policies in the same category. Comment was strictly in response to her post, not all health insurance or types of health insurance. I was careful to not use words like "all" in my comment.

 

No, she had some strong qualifiers in that post. She was specifically talking about policies offered to individuals versus group policies, based upon her experience.

[TechWife]

That's the way taxes work now. Someone that earns 100k is going to pay more taxes than someone that makes 25k. They both receive the same services for their taxes.

 

Just because something is being done, doesn't mean it's right or the best way to do it.

[Hannah C.]

Many people have good insurance policies that do not cause them to spend a lot of money (or go bankrupt) when they have a major illness or injury.

 

I was referring specifically to those with low income who have to purchase individual policies in order to have health care. In my experience the individual policies provide less coverage and cost more. AFAIK any individual policy that actually provides coverage like you're speaking of would be *very* expensive, and probably beyond the reach of someone with low income. Sorry I wasn't clear enough in my original post :)

 

I know there are good insurance policies, like you speak of - I'm on one right now, thanks to the healthcare bill - but it's a *group* policy, not an individual policy.

[QueenCat]

No, she had some strong qualifiers in that post. She was specifically talking about policies offered to individuals versus group policies, based upon her experience.

 

I see that now... I shouldn't respond to posts that require thinking on my part when I've been sleep deprived.

[QueenCat]

I was referring specifically to those with low income who have to purchase individual policies in order to have health care. In my experience the individual policies provide less coverage and cost more. AFAIK any individual policy that actually provides coverage like you're speaking of would be *very* expensive, and probably beyond the reach of someone with low income. Sorry I wasn't clear enough in my original post :)

 

I know there are good insurance policies, like you speak of - I'm on one right now, thanks to the healthcare bill - but it's a *group* policy, not an individual policy.

 

You were clearer than I realized, I was sleep deprived at the time. I see where you are coming from.

[goldberry]

Interesting how this thread played out!

 

Military bases, manifest destiny, taxes....but basically, the only real answer offered for the intentionally uninsured besides a personal mandate is "charities". Hmmm... sorry, not very persuasive to me!

[tntgoodwin]

The local community, which could include churches, charities, etc.

[A home for their hearts]

 

There will always be those who would rather "play the odds", or those for whom any amount is deemed too much to pay. So my question is, how do you address that?

 

Our premium just went up to $800+ a month for our family plus a $10,000 deductable, now tell me who in the world can afford that? I don't want to "play the odds" with me, my dh, or my children but we are being forced to! Tomorrow is the last day our family will be covered. It is an outrageous price to pay for health care insurance. Many people where my dh work only get paid minimum wage, how are they suppose to pay $800 dollars a month in health care, keep a roof over their heads, and feed their families? Something has to be done, I don't know what, but requiring people, by law, to pay more than they could ever afford is ridiculous! All that money is doing is lining the wallets of big corporate leaders who are profiting off of peoples health, or lack there of!

[JudyJudyJudy]

The local community, which could include churches, charities, etc.

How exactly would that work? How would the payment be guaranteed when someone needed emergency treatment? What about if someone needed heart surgery? Would that person have to wait until an organization agreed to pay for it? What if someone had a chronic illness?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Our premium just went up to $800+ a month for our family plus a $10,000 deductable, now tell me who in the world can afford that? I don't want to "play the odds" with me, my dh, or my children but we are being forced to! Tomorrow is the last day our family will be covered. It is an outrageous price to pay for health care insurance. Many people where my dh work only get paid minimum wage, how are they suppose to pay $800 dollars a month in health care, keep a roof over their heads, and feed their families? Something has to be done, I don't know what, but requiring people, by law, to pay more than they could ever afford is ridiculous! All that money is doing is lining the wallets of big corporate leaders who are profiting off of peoples health, or lack there of!

You are absolutely right.

[WishboneDawn]

Our premium just went up to $800+ a month for our family plus a $10,000 deductable, now tell me who in the world can afford that? I don't want to "play the odds" with me, my dh, or my children but we are being forced to! Tomorrow is the last day our family will be covered. It is an outrageous price to pay for health care insurance. Many people where my dh work only get paid minimum wage, how are they suppose to pay $800 dollars a month in health care, keep a roof over their heads, and feed their families? Something has to be done, I don't know what, but requiring people, by law, to pay more than they could ever afford is ridiculous! All that money is doing is lining the wallets of big corporate leaders who are profiting off of peoples health, or lack there of!

 

Wow.

 

This is just unfathomable to me. That's a down payment and monthly payments on a house. It seems designed to keep people who are making even decent wages on the hamster wheel of debt and stress.

 

If anybody wants to move up here I'll help with the house hunting.

[A home for their hearts]

Wow.

 

This is just unfathomable to me. That's a down payment and monthly payments on a house. It seems designed to keep people who are making even decent wages on the hamster wheel of debt and stress.

 

If anybody wants to move up here I'll help with the house hunting.

 

I keep telling my dh that we need to move to Canada! ;)